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1 hour later…
03:46
I keep 'losing' my caret when editing posts or writing comments (main site). Anyone else seeing this or is it a glitch in my browser?
 
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2 hours later…
06:54
@AdrianMole I think this was happening to me in Google Chrome last week or so.
@TylerH @AdrianMole I missed this discussion when it first happened but I would like to say that protection is easily (and frequently) circumvented by the voting rings that exist in certain tags.
 
2 hours later…
08:32
@EJoshuaS-StandwithUkraine I looked at that user's rep history (I'd also flagged them) and it was studded with "voting corrected" and "user removed". It's amazing they lasted as long as they did.
jps
jps
09:31
And again two close votes on spam, including a high rep user "I'm voting to close because it is spam" :(
 
1 hour later…
10:44
@jps Strange reply from that high-rep close-voter:
> Flagging as spam would be great assuming there was enough moderation traffic to see it and deal with it quickly. That's just not the case anymore.
Why moderation rates ('traffic') would be any slower for spam flags than for close votes is a mystery, to me.
jps
jps
@AdrianMole yes, and I think I had similar discussions with that user before. During the strike, this(close votes on spam) also happened a lot. But the argument is really weak. The post had > 10 views and would just need 4 users to flag. But because of a lack of moderation we need 3 close votes?
@AdrianMole I sort of get the sentiment. Previously blatant spam would be nuked on sight, so it very rarely lived more than a couple of minutes. For most users spam would be essentially "invisible". Recently it seems the response is slightly slower. However, it's still not that slow. That post was deleted in 5 minutes. Which is normal in my experience.
I usually wait 5-10 minutes before sending a flag-pls request for new questions because they are usually gone by that point, so there is no need for extra help.
At any rate, my experience "recently" (last few months? Maybe since the strike) is that spam is slightly more visible for regular users that don't usually do a lot of flagging. I've seen even high rep users stumble upon blatant spam and seem to not know how to handle it. They'd edit out the spam link. Or just edit the post to fix some other stuff.
For spam posts that Smokey hasn't found, a flag-pls in here is useful, because one of the users here who can send feedback to SD can do so. There are normally enough active users in CharcoalHQ/SOCVR/SO-Biotoxics combined to kill spam in a minute or two.
That's definitely true. Moreover, the number of flags required to automatically nuke a post was decreased to 4.
Still, perhaps few more spam posts live to longer than 5 minutes. So, it seems that it's "slower".
jps
jps
This particular spam was indeed not reported by smokey. I still don't get the argument of this high-rep user why voting to close is necessary, because not enough people flag spam, and that even after I left a comment saying "don't vtc, flag as spam"
10:54
Yet, I feel the spam that shows up is still handled correctly. Perhaps the average time to handle it has shifted up (no data on this, though. I'm going by "feeling") but it's still well within reasonable bounds. I think most spam is nuked within 10 minutes.
@jps It was reported in Charcoal. Just not here. Here is the metasmoke report.
TBH, I'm not sure what determines when Smokey reports a post in this room. I suspect it's probably weighting or something.
11:11
{Ooops - Ninja'd!}
jps
jps
@AdrianMole yes, but following whatever kind of logic just not reported here.
Probably something to do with caching. :)
jps
jps
Whatever, my concern is not about Smokey, but about stubborn users who insist that casting 3 close votes is better than 4 spam flags because of a lack of moderation.
And, if they really insist on casting a close vote, why would that stop them also raising a spam flag?
I mean, I can't object to: CV + Down Vote + Delete Vote + Red Flag on such posts.
(Did I miss something else?)
jps
jps
As mentioned, this is not my first encounter with that user and they seem to argue that flagging doesn't work, so it should be voted on spam. We should teach other users that the first and foremost action against spam is flagging. Arguing against that seems counter-productive.
11:29
What are the reasons that spam handling is slower after the strike? Did we lose some prolific spam hunters?
@StephenOstermiller I think some users restricted their usage of the site. Or just left.
Some mods are also 'inactive' (at least, partially), so the instant flag-delete from them has gone.
jps
jps
During the strike, we had spam closed as "not about programming" and troll posts closed as "needs focus", staying there for long time, because nobody flagged.
Also, one or two CMs that were regulars in the Tavern chat-room will no longer be casting quick deletes on spam that gets reported in there. :(
Is this suffering from an AI hallucination or is it just a bit garbled?
@AdrianMole looks like AI to me...
11:40
@AdrianMole The grammar is bad, so not AI
The grammar looks OK(ish), to me.
11:54
"it is designed more appropriately for the specified task." is awkard ESL not polished AI speak
I've not seen AI use that much passive voice either.
12:17
Is this really terrible spam? Or NAA? Or is it an actual answer?
@AdrianMole I call it deleted. Because it is
@Machavity You're such a spoilsport. ;)
I'm in yer roomz, denying you flagz :P
Flagging was one of the few things I didn't do on that one.
^ Q is also close-worthy as off-topic (seeking recommendations), IMHO.
13:06
Are we not supposed to correct loss-of-formatting errors in plagiarized posts? ;-P
The source post looked exactly the same in this case.
Several of the other answers there look like little more than copies of each other.
Yeah, the source post was also a duplicate, but the first two were posted too close to count, I think. (30 mins might be pushing it.)
... aah. I see that mod-with-hard-hat deleted one (at least) and the anonymous plagiarism flag deleted the one under scrutiny. What are the chances that those are the same mod? xD
@GeneralGrievance IMHO 30 minutes is plenty of time to notice that there are answers that cover what you might be writing. Especially since there's a client-side dynamic reload script that notifies you when answers have been posted without you having to reload the page.
I would probably draw the line at 5 minutes (and that's generous) for short answers, or 10 minutes for long ones
13:20
@TylerH Just a reminder that this doesn't always work. I've had it fail often enough that I'd not be surprised if it happened to many others. Also, it just plain doesn't work on some machines. Seems some machines (or networks?) have issues with the websocket that's supposed to deliver the notification.
With that said, I don't think most duplicate answers are caused by the notification failing.
Some amount, sure. Some amount of answers to closed questions, too. But I don't think not getting notifications is true in the majority of cases.
@VLAZ sure, that's fair, glitches happen, although I still maintain that 30 minutes is more than enough time to allow for "refresh your page to make sure your content hasn't been shared in an answer already"
@TylerH I'd agree with this. Due diligence and everything.
@TylerH Would you flag it for duplication though? I think I've had a couple flags declined within similar intervals.
13:35
@GeneralGrievance Maybe not if it was within 5 minutes, as mods can be capricious when handling flags. Certainly if it was 30 minutes older.
If I were a mod, even if one were to consider a glitch/bug as VLAZ pointed out can happen, if I ever saw duplicate answers being flagged, I think I would delete the newer answer... or if it were within a few minutes of another answer, and they're both recent (as in, posted today), I might comment first and set a reminder to come back--give OP time to differentiate.
Of course if they're within 5 mins of each other and were posted days, weeks, months, years ago, the author of the repeated answer has already had plenty of time to notice and update their answer, because the page does always refresh when you actually post an answer.
In the case of the Q/As we were just discussing, I'll go with @GeneralGrievance and not flag as plagiarism. However, the answer offers nothing new over the (25 minutes) earlier one and, as such, can be safely removed...
It's also quite a poor answer, without explanation (unlike its predecessor).
@AdrianMole FWIW I wouldn't flag as plagiarism unless content is copied wholesale. In the above scenarios I am imagining custom implementations that just repeat the same solution, which I generally custom mod flag so I can better explain for our dear moderator brethren and sisteren what makes them repeats
Teh modz siblingens is too slow.
@AdrianMole yeah, fair point of clarification I generally mod flag when the answer has a positive score of 2+. Otherwise I post a del-pls here and attempt to get it deleted myself
I think a moderator would be well within their 'rights' to decline a flag on that answer, because, "it can be handled by community curation."
13:44
when the way to handle a problem is post deletion I'm not a fan of declining for that reason
because it takes much less time at that point for the moderator to just delete the post
they've already invested the time to view the flag and view the post
Yeah, understood. But, remember, mod deletion is a powerful, non-undoable action that (IMHO) is generally reserved for CoC violations, &c.
Unundoable is apparently a word. If wikipedia is anything to go by: en.wiktionary.org/wiki/unundoable
Something that can be performed by an unun?
I miss when periodic tables had "unununium" on them.
Well, we still have "Ununenium" (#119).
13:57
@AdrianMole Only doable if you are a nun
jps
jps
How should we handle a case in which a user posts his blog post style wisdom to loosely related questions (not answering the question but just writing about a related topic)
And the user seems to post a lot of this blog post answers to similar topics recently. Didn't check yet, if any of their answers actually answers the question.
@jps downvote and delete vote for not answering the question
It also is almost certainly plagiarized from somewhere: google.com/…
jps
jps
@TylerH nice :), so they will earn the Plagiarism flag for that ;)
maybe after ten flags they get a badge for that...
well, they just tried to self-delete one of the answers, at least, but I re-flagged as custom mod flag explaining
14:15
@NotTheDr01ds And a 13k user answering the question
jps
jps
@TylerH The also copied this from here .. flagged for plagiarism as well.
They have quite a few ... but we're drifting into user-level moderation, here, so maybe best if we refrain.
Yeah, let's keep further discussion about the user away from here--as always if you see some suspicious behavior or post, flag it for mods to investigate!
jps
jps
Alright, I thinks mods have enough input to handle that case.
@aynber The answer was AI, which is how I came across it ;-)
jps
jps
14:44
Excuse for posting images of code, after being asked to post the code as text: I can't write the code in text format
@NotTheDr01ds Even worse
jps
jps
15:44
@aynber couldn't even find a SE site for that where we could send them
whut
That Q is not spam but I can see why Smokey didn't like it. It is already closed and should be deleted but not with a red-flag penalty.
@jmoerdyk I guess there's a lot of spam for "anti-wrinkle cream" and the like?
oh... wrinkle cream spam
I mean, it could be trolling but I'm prepared to assume it's just a misguided new user. And, with a fabric tag ...
jps
jps
15:49
Here's another question containing wrinkle. Not sure if this is a helpful dupe target ;)
16:05
@jps Probably Arts & Crafts
jps
jps
@aynber yeah, might be the right place.
16:32
@TylerH In my opinion, this question is clear enough. The "I got an error" is just a distraction. It's a how-to question: "How do I find the most common combinations of values within groups?". I also tried for entirely too long to find a duplicate, but I can't find a good one.
I edited to remove and tried to generalize the title so others can find it.
 
2 hours later…
18:21
Should I flag the original answer for deletion - stackoverflow.com/questions/3321465/…
@Nimantha I normally flag the less upvoted one as a self-dupe.
Oh, I see, but it's by the same two people...
@Nimantha Question seems like a pretty clear resource request as well
@GeneralGrievance Thanks - yes the less upvoted one has been deleted. Was unsure because one of the questions was marked as a duplicate of the other.
@miken32 Missed the question (was looking for answers to edit) - voted as such
18:39
Any opinions on whether I should write a Meta post ing to burninate the tag?
@IanCampbell Thanks, fair enough
Great, thanks for considering.
@EJoshuaS-StandwithUkraine You met the most important burnination criteria: a good pun in the title
 
1 hour later…
jps
jps
19:52
Is it a full moon again? A few hours ago, someone asked about sewing a zipper and used the , now I see someone wants an essay about King Lear, using the tag....
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2 hours later…
23:55
Today in "screenshots": i.sstatic.net/yZmzo.jpg, i.sstatic.net/YBbhm.jpg - the portrait orientation is a nice touch
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