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2 hours later…
M--
3:40 AM
@user16217248 it's not downvoted, so not eligible for del-pls
The question itself should be closed. Then the whole thread will be roomba'd.
@mickmackusa same for this one. Answers needs to be downvoted first (less than -1) before they're eligible for del-pls
 
@M-- We need to update our guidance doc, but if it's within one downvote, it is eligible, because if you would vote to delete something, you presumably also believe it is bad enough to downvote. Thus, anyone fulfilling the request would be able to cast the delete vote by first casting a downvote.
(This is the only circumstance in which implicitly asking for a downvote is permitted in SOCVR)
 
@RyanM the guidance is fine, it's actually the userscript that needs updating: I assume @M-- has seen the same thing I've seen: "invalid-request" added to the tag with the "score > -1" tooltip
 
errr...right, yes, what Oleg said.
that'll teach me to ramble from memory when I haven't eaten dinner yet
FAQ is correct, script is mistaken
 
I had to go double-check the FAQ - the urge to comment "those requests should be binned" was hard to resist ^^"
 
3:55 AM
@RyanM Second bullet under del-pls in the FAQ for reference.
 
M--
4:05 AM
I see, in that sense they are valid. But if you are posting a del-pls shouldn't you also downvote the post? Those answers don't have any downvote on them.
 
The first one does have a downvote.
 
M--
@RyanM @OlegValteriswithUkraine should we add a caveat to the FAQ to that effect?
@HenryEcker my bad, you are right. I clicked on the same question twice now, to check the votes. Not easy to navigate chat on my phone.
 
Oh, that the script is wrong? It'd probably be easier to just fix the script.
my guess is that it'd just be changing a -1 to a 0 or something
 
if the strike ends that is :)
 
I believe the suggestion was to require a downvote to request a del-pls for the within one rule to be acceptable
 
M--
4:09 AM
yes, so it will be changing a -1 to 0 and also adding another check to make sure at least one downvote exists.
@OlegValteriswithUkraine I could've downvoted and cast a del-vote, but @VLAZ script doesn't let me :)
 
@M-- glad to hear it works nicely :)
 
oh...yeah, you arguably shouldn't be requesting a del-pls on content that 1) requires a downvote to be deleted, but that 2) you have not downvoted yourself
you're implicitly requesting a downvote on the content, so if you think it should be downvoted, do it yourself.
 
M--
@RyanM Unless you have less than 125 rep :/
but that probably won't happen ever
 
true. but if you can downvote it and you haven't...
(similarly, if you can delete-vote, then you should do that before asking other people to, same for close votes, etc.)
 
M--
Again, unless one messes up and retracts their vote. Then it should be mentioned in the request.
I am being too anal
 
4:19 AM
agreed
no I mean it's good to be specific
we're no strangers to pedantry here
 
M--
Where's the glasses? Lol
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine I thought that had been updated.
 
@Makyen apparently not - I reinstalled it, like a week ago? should be fresh
 
yeah I see the same thing FWIW
 
2.1.0, in case you are wondering
if (postScore <= -1) {
    is20k = true;
} else {
    invalidReason = 'Answer: score > -1';
}
 
4:25 AM
It's somewhat tricky in that it is unactionable in its current state, but the request is not invalid. Given that, however, "invalid-request" doesn't make sense as a label.
 
That would be an oops on my part. It's changed in my copy, so I don't see the inaccurate notification in the tag that it's invalid.
 
huh, just not committed then?
 
I'm checking on it.
 
thanks! Glad I resisted the urge to go fix it then ^^"
 
:) np. Although, I'm not going to object to someone else making changes, particularly given that it's a simple change. If it conflicts with something I've already done locally, that's just something I have to deal with on my end, which is readily doable.
In this case, the value should be abstracted out and assigned to a constant, even if it's just a local constant, particularly given that the value is used in more than one place, even if it's within a few lines of the code.
 
5:00 AM
yup, and so it is done - made a tiny PR
 
The +reqData.score <= -3 in the following line could just be postScore <= -3
 
< 2 hours later: half the userscript is rewritten >
 
Yeah :P
 
I think I'll have to ask somebody to put a straitjacket on me during the strike...
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine WannaCry?
 
5:17 AM
@OlegValteriswithUkraine me when I see a bad question and have to resist the urge to close it
I got this diamond for a reason dangit
 
yeah... that's not going to be easy to resist :)
 
Has there been any sort of response from any staff member about averting the strike? I mean ... anything at all?
 
Didn't Oleg or Vlaz make a userscript that disables all the UI elements for curation?
 
@VLAZ did
@AdrianMole not that I heard of? no one mentioned anything like that. But that's probably a question for those with access to TL
 
Also, it's now the weekend. Maybe Monday isn't the best day of the week to start a strike. Dunno.
But even a, "Can you hold off for a week ... we're thinking about this one?" would be some token of acknowledgement.
 
5:24 AM
@AdrianMole initial plan was to start on Friday, but, you know, easier said than done. Aren't you on dsc, btw? :)
 
@AdrianMole they have had a week. The policy was rolled out last Monday.
or at least, they will have had a week by Monday
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine I tried to connect but failed. Seems I have an old account using my email but can't re-activate it.
 
@AdrianMole ah, that explains it
 
@MichaelM. Sort of OK, in here, in terms of the edits, but it's best to not link directly to a user profile. Maybe link one or two of their suggested edits, instead.
 
maybe burnination HQ?
FWIW the edits in question are also fixing other things
tell you what, I'm gonna send it over there and then if I'm wrong about that it can get moved somewhere else, and also we can discuss the general best practices without the user link in here.
> I found [a <2k rep user] in the SE queue suggesting a lot of edits related to the burnination. IIRC, <2k users really aren't supposed to be retagging because it fills up the queue. Should I keep approving these edits, raise a mod flag, or what?
(the topic with the link removed)
 
5:46 AM
@RyanM sorry team, I couldn't downvote prior to my delpls. I had delvotes left, but no downvotes.
 
@mickmackusa Could you not have borrowed some of Jeanne's? She doesn't use her quota very often. xD
 
6:10 AM
I was doing some uncommonly heavy curating in [php] [arrays] closed:no answers:0 last night because my wife and daughter were away.
 
6:36 AM
What's the current consensus on posts closed a duplicates of "RTFM" targets? I'm reluctant to reopen this question because it needs the screenshots to be converted to text (IMHO) ... but I really don't like the duplicate close reason. There was some talk about mod-flagging such closures but I'm not really sure that's appropriate, here.
 
@AdrianMole I never have the courage to ask Jeanne for anything. She always has that look in her eye like "don't even think about it."
 
hehe
 
@AdrianMole my general stance is to change the dupe target but I am not a SME in that tag.
 
@mickmackusa Yeah, if there is a more suitable target, then that's fine.
Such closures just smell of over-zealous curation on posts that the hammer-wielder just didn't like. The downvotes and delete vote compound that unpleasant aroma.
 
7:10 AM
^ I don't know if three unanimous "leave closed" with a new reason will actually remove the duplicate banner ... maybe also an interesting experiment?
 
No, they will add "was left closed after review with the reason: ..."
 
@markalex Hmm. Not ideal, then, but possibly of some use.
 
My understanding is that remove original close reason is possible only with reopening. Or in this case it is possible to change dupe target, but I'm not sure with who,how and when can do it.
 
@markalex Any gold tag-badge holder can change the dupe targets at any stage while it remains closed. I could do that but I can't see that there's a likely duplicate for the actual question.
 
7:31 AM
I have a question. There is a user, who works for VictoriaMetrics, competitor/supplement of Prometheus. This user posted an answer about Prometheus, with a load of links to documentation, but this is VictoriaMetrics documentation. Technically it is correct answer, since linked documentation is compatible. And since they don't explicitly say something like "go use VictoriaMetrics" I guess it is not a spam. But it doesn't feel right. Is it OK thing to do?
 
 
2 hours later…
9:56 AM
If they don't explicitly say that they are associated with VictoriaMetrics, then it's spam.
From https://stackoverflow.com/help/promotion:
> However, if you mention your product, website, etc. in your question or answer (or any other contribution to the site), you must disclose your affiliation in your post.
 
10:36 AM
@RyanM Dear Sir, I am unable to reproduce the results that you have reported in your article. I have run several of the answers through the Hugging Face detector, both with and without formatting, and I get very different results. For example, with this answer of Adrian's, I get at most a ~77% score, not >99%. Am I doing something wrong, or are the detectors worse than inaccurate and actually just random?
 
10:57 AM
@Lundin Dang, I wish someone would have told me before I ran that those things mattered.
 
@CodyGray Can I report myself as only artificially intelligent?
 
Seems it would only be natural.
 
Still not sure where that -1 came from (OK, it's not one of my best answers); maybe somebody ran the HF and saw the 99% fake score?
 
That's why you deleted it? ZOMG A DOWNVOTE!
 
The downvote brought it (back) to my attention; I looked again and decided it didn't really add anything to the other answers.
 
 
1 hour later…
12:19 PM
@mickmackusa Err… I didn't say that at all! You first noted that you thought they were churning out a large number of AI-generated answers, and that we needed to "put a lid on" that. I replied, snarkily and frustratedly, "Lids are now banned". You then clarified that not only do you suspect them of posting AI-generated content, but that they're deleting and reposting to avoid downvotes. I explicitly told you, "That's still an actionable offense" because it's no longer an issue of AI-generated content. My first reply was admittedly less-than-helpful, because I was frustrated about the newly-announced AI policy. But the second answer was, in my opinion, quite clear and direct regarding that it would be appropriate to flag it and that a mod would act on it.
 
12:40 PM
@CodyGray sorry that my telling of the events (that were unfolding in real time) painted your feedback inaccurately. I think I was bouncing between the chatrooms and monitoring the user's behaviors. By the time I considered adding flags as you recommended, other users were taking action so I didn't feel the need to flag. Multiple non-mods were commenting on the answers and flagging. I pretty much backed off from there.
 
OK, fair enough. I'm very late in reading the transcript, but that caught my eye and definitely felt wrong. Thanks for clarifying.
 
12:52 PM
@TylerH Ah, welcome to the world of userscripting on SE! Where everything's !important, nothing's unique, and it changes every time you turn around.
3
@AdrianMole FWIW (not sure if this has been answered already by someone else), staff is aware of the strike plans, but they have not said anything to any of us in TL or elsewhere about it, nor have they suggested any kind of negotiations or compromises or anything that would hold it off.
4
@AdrianMole Completely inappropriate closure, of course. Best option is, as was already mentioned, to re-dupe to something more appropriate, assuming something exists. Otherwise, reopen it. I don't really want to talk about mod-flagging at the moment. It won't do any good for a wee bit.
 
 
2 hours later…
3:02 PM
@mickmackusa Ah, you took the advice from Jeff Atwood!
@CodyGray You’re doing an !important work.
 
3:56 PM
How has this been closed as a dupe of an irrelevant question? I was going to flag for vandalism as the OP has repeatedly deleted most of the question after receiving 2 answers, but I don't understand this closure at all. stackoverflow.com/questions/76390122/…
 
@DavidBuck OP approved a suggested duplicate. It was either OP who flagged as dupe and approved themselves or a <3k user flagged and OP approved. There is no close vote on that question.
 
@VLAZ Ah. That makes sense. That's not a common occurrence (at least, not to me)!
 
No, definitely not common. But happens from time to time. When a question is voted on as a dupe (flag or a non-binding close vote) OP gets a big confirmation at the top in the notice which prompts them to accept the dupe or not. Accepting closes the question and attributes the closure to the Community user. If there were any close votes, you'd see them associated with the closure and the Community user would also be there. This one only lists Community.
With that said, often enough, I've seen users click "yes" in the confirmation without actually wanting to. Because there is a button and has to be clicked, I guess. They then wonder why the question got closed.
Not sure if this is what happened - could be that somebody else dupe flagged and OP just instinctively accepted. Or they thought about it, considered it was correct and accepted (this happens rarely...), or they flagged and accepted themselves (which is weird but could be the case).
 
@VLAZ Not quite sure what the OP is thinking. Question has been eviscerated again so it's in the lap of the mods.
 
@DavidBuck Honestly, could be an attempt to "deface" their question (I'm using the term loosely)
OK, actually looking at the history - maybe they are trying to hide that it's an assignment.
 
4:54 PM
1
Q: Should [modifier] be burninated?

JacobThe modifier tag on StackOverflow has 339 questions at the time of posting, but the topics it seems to cover vary wildly. There are questions about regex modifiers, Android Jetpack Compose, Swift, Java, C#, JavaScript, the list goes on... This is because the term "modifier" is very general. It ca...

 
@Burnination-Feed I suggest either applying a to the current state of affairs between the community and SE, or burninate it.
 
@CodyGray Hugging Face has a couple of JavaScript bugs which cause its calls to its own API to fail and/or truncate the data tested, even when short, which can result in hanging on "predicting" and/or using less text, sometimes far less text, than is in the <textarea> and which the API can handle. The errors result in the URL sent to the API to be malformed. The most glaring bug can be easily demonstrated by just adding/removing a "#" anywhere in the text (mid-way through the first line is an easy place) and watch the difference in the number of tokens the prediction is based upon. That error is that the HF page doesn't use encodeURIComponent() to encode the query string. The userscript here corrects those bugs. The userscript also adds some buttons for text transformations, which can easily demonstrate how susceptible the Hugging Face detector is to changes in formatting, even just whitespace. Those buttons can also be used to easily remove things like the links spammers add to their AI generated spam text.
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship, I don't think that featuring for this is actual anymore. I feel like at this point there should be featured post about strike actually starting. And I'm pretty sure that my post is not appropriate for this.
 
@markalex The post about the strike is not being submitted until Monday; in 1-2 days.
And it’s fine to keep 2 posts featured at the same time.
 
5:15 PM
@Andreasdetestscensorship Fair point. Forgot about it
 
5:36 PM
@CodyGray Who's Code Is It Anyway
 
 
1 hour later…
M--
6:58 PM
Seeing this signature under the open-letter is kinda sad, yet heartwarming at the same time: i.stack.imgur.com/Y5AFa.png
 
M--
7:17 PM
Can anybody remind me what happened with Jon's mod status? I remember him stepping down before the pandemic (meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/390525/…), as many other mods did. But I now see another "stepping down" post from 5 months ago, which I missed as I was so busy during that time (meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/422180/…).
Obviously not looking for any personal details or secret info. Just wanna know the timeline of the events. He stepped down, got reelected, and stepped down again?
 
yesterday, by Machavity
@markalex He stepped down during the Monica debacle, then came back after that blew over. Then he stepped down last year for personal reasons
 
M--
7:41 PM
@Makyen ty
 
np
 
 
1 hour later…
8:58 PM
@CodyGray That's just a damn shame! At this point in the 'cycle', it would be nice to get - at the very least - some acknowledgement of the Community's concerns, even if it were only a time-gap gesture.
 
9:09 PM
hmm, it would indeed be nice to get Community on board
 
9:22 PM
@AndrasDeak--СлаваУкраїні Although it would be odd when it starts refusing to own actions of deleted users and such because it's striking.
 
9:48 PM
 
Is the staff tone-deaf?
Is it really a viable and stable long-term structure, to have much of the work done by non-paid "employees", but to not show that you listen to and appreciate the concerns of those people?
7
 
10:10 PM
perhaps we need "old contributor" indicators to remind the company that our feelings matter too
 
 
1 hour later…
11:18 PM
@AndrasDeak--СлаваУкраїні Sorry, what? Feelings, you say? We have no feelings? We are just automated drones moving on command.
 
11:51 PM
I noticed a banner about the strike on questions. I thought only SE staff could add those banners
Oh its network wide
Oh I think it was one of my userscripts lol
 
what strike?
 
The strike due to the new AI policy openletter.mousetail.nl
 

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