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12:03 AM
@Ethan huh. Gonna get lonely here....
 
@Turing85 Yea. The room is going to put into read only also
 
@Ethan Sam updated his userscripts to show a banner.
 
@Turing85 You're more than welcome to sign the letter, and join the strike. :)
 
@Makyen Ah makes sense
 
@HovercraftFullOfEels Since nobody answered you, I'll do you the favour. The answer is: "no".
 
12:48 AM
@CodyGray I am using this userscript, which I am led to understand fixes some bugs in the HF interface (including the cause of the infinite hanging issue that was described in another message elsewhere). @Makyen would know more details.
oh wait Makyen already replied
there's been a lot of transcript in a lot of places lately for...obvious reasons
 
Yeah, thousands of messages. Just way too much to reasonably read all of it.
 
 
2 hours later…
2:21 AM
@user16217248 It very much reads like copied content and the actual post was spam deleted
 
2:38 AM
@user16217248 @NathanOliver Yeah, bad audit. Context is this answer that makes it a lot clearer, but of course you can't see that...
I reflagged it to remove it from the audit pool.
(which is to say, the result is correct but in a way that no non-moderator would be able to see in its current state)
 
Thanks for the extra link and explanatory words @RyanM :)
 
M--
2:53 AM
@HovercraftFullOfEels I wouldn't pin it on the staff. These policies/behaviors are a direct or indirect (by "strategic" hires) reflection of how the hire management views this network (peasants working to make me richer). Most of the CMs/staff feel our pain, but their hands are tied.
3
 
3:41 AM
 
4:00 AM
@M-- "peasants working to make me richer". Doesn't that attidude just make you so much more interested in doing their work for free?
 
M--
4:57 AM
@Andreasdetestscensorship more interesting?? That's the only reason I am here. To serve their majesty.
@M-- By the way, I meant to say higher management, not hire management, lol
 
5:15 AM
@M-- But we do need to hire new management.
@M-- All hail the great owners of SE! They were selected by God for their natural talent at running this platform!
 
 
2 hours later…
7:19 AM
@snakecharmerb I flagged as spam
 
@Vega Spam seed do you think?
 
Looks like a seed, indeed
 
Hmm, already attracted a self-deleted nonsense answer, looks like you're right. I mod-flagged the answer.
 
7:52 AM
@Makyen Thanks for the clarification (here and the several other places ;-)). I did not know that. That puts the unreliability of these detectors up to an even higher level, as I imagine most flaggers do not know this, either.
I was aware of the effect that text transformations would have, of course, and I knew about the userscript, but I thought it was only inlining the detector in the native SO UI and making it easier to use. I did not know that it was fixing fundamental bugs with the Hugging Face detector itself.
@AdrianMole There has, albeit only in private channels, been some limited acknowledgement of the community's concerns, but only in a limited sense, not with any spirit of compromise on this fundamental issue (identification and removal of AI-generated content).
@Makyen Are you calling me unreasonable?!!
@M-- I wish I could reply saying that I had reason to believe that this was true, but, sadly, I don't. I have only similar hopes. I have seen no actual evidence of this. To be fair, this is very likely for the same reason(s) it was true back in 2019, that management has issued gag orders or other similar prohibitions against disclosing any information or making the company look bad, and these reasonable staff members that surely must exist are not doing it because they fear for their jobs. But, that's really just speculation. And the management are staff members, too, so directing the frustration at staff is perfectly valid/apt.
 
8:16 AM
Hmm. Spam as an audit in the reopen queue is a new one to me.
 
@CodyGray, can you maybe share how much of a consensus this strike is among moderators? (Of cause in capacity you feel appropriate). Because I see something like a half of SO mods signed open letter. And I imagine this is somewhat small number of all SE mods (I have no clue of total number of mods over whole SE).
 
There is something like 539 mods across all Stack Exchange sites. The problem is that not all of these mods are very active, so they may not even have seen what was just proposed at the beginning of this past week.
The private moderator chat rooms are often contentious places, where a lot of people with strong opinions spend a lot of time arguing with each other. I've never seen these places so united on a single issue. I have not heard a single moderator speak in favor of what the company has done.
6
Of course, as stated, that only accounts for the mods who are actively online, reading the updates, talking in chat about them, etc.
 
8:39 AM
Thanks a lot. I was worried a bit that there might be a split among mod's opinion on the matter.
 
10% of signed mods is still kinda low, but I believe it couldn't be dismissed as a small portionю
 
I remember someone telling me that they had a discussion with one mod who didn't agree that the strike was a good idea and weren't going to do it. I don't know who this mod was, and I don't want to speculate. But, evidently, they haven't been involved in our private discussions among the mod crew, or at least they haven't spoken up with their POV.
 
@CodyGray I am not sure whether it would be worth pinging those less active mods and former mods to let them know what is going on.
 
All SO mods have been pinged in our private chat. Unfortunately, that was only done earlier today, so a few hours ago, so they may still miss the announcement, depending on what is happening in their Real Lives.
Several were already on a mod holiday to deal with personal stuff, long before any of this came up.
 
8:46 AM
Weekends are always slow...
 
The good news being, of course, that they won't be strike-breakers. The bad news is that they can't lend their support.
 
@DalijaPrasnikar But they finish so fast...
 
@VLAZ Can't argue that
 
Weekends are a paradox. We should ban them.
 
@VLAZ In my personal experience: weekend = less questions in total, but more good questions among them. So I suggest exactly the opposite: ban weekdays.
 
8:51 AM
@VLAZ Can you ever actually prove it's the weekend?
 
@CodyGray I asked ChatGPT and it said so
 
Well, we can certainly take that to the bank. (These days, we probably literally can.)
On a semi-related note, anyone handy with Photoshop want to turn my avatar into an image of smashed/broken glasses?
 
Like from hitting your glasses in the desk or wall? Presumably while they were on your head?
 
@VLAZ Yeah, something like that. It was suggested that I use an avatar with dark-tinted lenses during the strike, and I've considered that, but then I thought it'd be even better to have glasses with the lenses entirely smashed and otherwise looking wrecked.
I tried to get an AI to generate something like that, but it failed.
 
@CodyGray Have you tried by uploading your existing avatar to the AI or you asked it to generate completely new one
 
@DalijaPrasnikar I don't know how to upload my existing avatar. I only asked it to create a new one.
 
In the mean time why do the mods strike instead of e.g. delete the AI-generated contents anyway?
It seems to me if everyone do the latter either AI-generated contents get deleted anyway (so no change) or SO kicks all the moderators (so same situation as everyone goes on strike)?
 
@user202729 What does the latter actually accomplish long-term?
 
@user202729 Simply disregarding the dictated policy and deleting the AI-generated content anyway would very quickly result in staff removing moderator privileges from all of us moderators. They would claim that, by refusing to comply with their edicts, we would be (arguably) violating the moderator agreement, and thus we'd be removed for "cause". I don't see how this would be desirable.
3
 
Also - the AI policy is really just the straw that broke the camel's back here. It's the persistent pattern of SE ignoring the community which is the real issue. It's that which has to be addressed.
 
9:08 AM
@VLAZ I don't know but still it seems that even if everyone goes on strike SE can just hire elect new moderators anyway?
 
Moderators aren't hired; they're elected.
 
@AdrianMole I like this ones: stock.adobe.com/… Look similar to current ones, and general style of portraying glass with strokes IMO conveys right "artsy" level for circumstances.
 
If you mean that, instead of using volunteers elected from the community to moderate, they could hire people and pay them to moderate... yes, they could do that. And likely will. At least, they will likely get their already-paid staff members to moderate.
@markalex Yeah, that's not bad, especially if I flip it horizontally. I don't like the fact that it's got a hand-drawn look, but I guess it's the best I've found so far.
 
Okay I edit to elect, I still don't understand?
@MadScientist The moderator agreement does not require us to follow any policies not publicly posted by SE, or to follow any policies that were posted in contravention of SE's own obligations under that agreement. As such, feel free to ignore the policy and keep doing what is right for your community. — Chris - Regenerate Response yesterday
 
So... in how SE did this, they actually (arguably) broke the moderator agreement. The moderator agreement puts obligations on both parties: us moderators and the company. The company didn't follow their part of the bargain. That's what Chris is talking about there. The legal argument would be, since they broke the agreement first, it's no longer legally binding, so we mods aren't bound to it anymore. But, like all legal and contractual issues, this could be debated.
 
9:15 AM
What about just editing the posts from the users to start with "this post is likely generated by AI" in bold flashing text?
 
Yeah, there's nothing in the "rules" that I can see that would prevent us from doing that. (Aside from we can't make text flash. But that wasn't your point, of course.) But how long do you think they'd let us keep doing that until they demanded that we stop?
And... even if they did let us keep doing that, do you really want us doing that? Do we really want to do that? No. We want the garbage off the site. We don't want to add to the noise.
 
Also, is it really a useful investment of time to edit? I figure a lot of times the OP would just rollback anway.
 
I know but...
realistically do you think the strike is going to work? Last time we didn't get Monica reinstated for one...

If it doesn't what *other* option do we have? Move to some other site?
 
Probably takes less time to write a flag but it still a serious investment of time to identify AI generated content that is far outpaced by the amount of time it takes to generate said content.
 
Along those lines, though, I've spoken elsewhere about how it might be possible to "outsource" the handling of AI-generated content to the community. All of you non-mods could leave comments under the posts you suspect to be AI generated, thus: (1) serving the purpose of communicating to readers that they need to be extra careful, ...
... (2) pointing out that AI-generated content is banned on SO (that ban is still in place, with staff agreement to it) to hopefully discourage the author from continuing to post it, and (3) request subject-matter experts to review it and note any incorrect information that it contains, which would allow it to be deleted.
But that sucks; that's not what we want.
 
9:19 AM
@user202729 Last time the company at least tried to do something to repair relations. Yes, Monica was not reinstated (and SE also decided to that "reinstatement policy" to throw even more red tape at it) but...honestly, would a reinstatement have helped? Were I at Monica's position, I wouldn't want to come back even if the company reinstated my diamonds across the network.
 
Monica, in Monica's position, didn't want to come back, either.
Offering it to her would have been a token gesture, at best. The apology was arguably more genuine.
 
I guess yes, problem with that is it consumes lots of effort to spot the technical error in addition to "being generated by AI" to delete the answer, and that's for each answer.
 
@user202729 Note that even non-prolific answerers who use gen-AI could post 5 answers an hour. Some have gone on streaks posting an answer every 3 minutes on average. Actually, the fast paced posting is a good sign it's AI generated. Some just seem to post an answer or two every hour or so for the day. Maybe just at breaks or something. Regardless, takes a lot more time to verify the content than to post it.
 
9:36 AM
@CodyGray Maybe this can help docs.midjourney.com/docs/image-prompts I never used AI for generating images, so I cannot be of more help.
 
9:46 AM
@CodyGray One of the issues with outsorcing that work to regular users is that mods have certain authority regular users don't have. I expect that if the AI moderation would fall onto regular users there would be a lot of friction.
Also if curators are on strike, and those that care about quality will most likely be, they cannot help in solving AI problem. Not to mention the scale of work required to handle AI posts by regular users, compared to mods.
If the strike fails, we can all pack and go home. There is not much we could do to make an impact otherwise.
 
@DalijaPrasnikar Well, we seem to have encountered a bit of friction with it left to mods... :-)
 
No kidding....
 
10:04 AM
@DalijaPrasnikar New policy forbids moderators from taking basically any action over AI content. So mods on strike or not doesn't change much in that regard. Curators rely heavily on moderation support in there efforts. And other then self-imposed "curator" title and more sharp desire to keep every thing in order, they are regular users, with no additional powers. So I don't see any reason to deny anybody they right to participate in said strike.
 
@CodyGray Posting comments would not be much of a problem. But some other concerns would be downvoting and delete voting those posts. Downvoting more than 1-2 posts from same user would be serial voting and I am not sure how would delete voting go in case OP decides to file a complaint to the company.
 
Yup.
 
@markalex I was talking more form the perspective "if mods cannot curate AI content (strike or not), regular users can hardly solve AI problem on their own" Mods are crucial here.
 
Mods downvoting more than 1-2 posts from the same user is also serial downvoting. I've had quite a few votes reversed after handling spam or other posting sprees...
 
Heh - So even down-votes cast 'on your behalf' by the Community bot are considered serial voting ... by the Community bot?
 
10:09 AM
@CodyGray How dare you target those poor spammers?!
 
@AdrianMole No, these are my downvotes, not those cast on my behalf by some bot.
 
Hmm...
 
Also, I bet that this "spam policy" you have disproportionately affects users from some parts of the world.
 
Mods still have a downvote button. It's rare that I delete a post flagged as VLQ or NAA without first downvoting it. Why would I not downvote something that I think needs to be deleted for being of excessively low quality and/or completely irrelevant?
 
@DalijaPrasnikar Exactly. And since new policy prohibits mods from doing so (strike or not), said policy is a root of problem. It needs to be reversed, but SE Inc doesn't want to. Here where strike comes to play.
 
10:22 AM
^ Not sure if that's just gibberish or a very bad spam attempt.
Is this spam or just NAA? (Looks related to the Q.)
 
@markalex Yes, I know. That is why I joined the strike.
 
@DalijaPrasnikar Sorry, then I obviously failed to understand what you was trying to convey. I had a feeling like you'd like mods not to strike.
 
I think we all would like the mods not to strike .... I mean, we would like there to not be a reason for them to strike.
2
 
Exactly
 
For what it's worth, I recently learned there are some sites where the mods aren't planning on joining the strike and, instead, are just going to effectively ignore the new policy. This may well work (i.e., they may get away with it) on a site that's only dealt with 16 cases of AI-generated content since the free public launch of ChatGPT, but not on a site like SO, where mods handle 50+ cases per day.
 
10:32 AM
Well, fair point. I still have a fraction of hope to wake up on Monday to see post announcing rollback of policy, and everybody happy and we all go into sunset together. But I doubt(
 
@markalex No worries. I was merely elaborating why "other options" Cody mentioned in reply to @user202729 are not feasible and why AI policy must be reverted and at the moment the only option we have is to strike.
 
Ahha, thanks for explanation, obviously I missed implied tone somewhere. Once again sorry for misunderstanding.
 
11:01 AM
@VLAZ Yes, but users with <125 rep have been restricted to 30 minutes being required between answers since December, so the very rapid posting indicator isn't available for low rep users. There are a lot that do post one every 30 minutes, but it's much more arguable that they might have been able to do that much work in 30 minutes than in 3.
 
Arguable.
 
@user202729 Yes, the fact that it takes dramatically more work to judge each and every one of these AI generated posts on a high/low quality metric and that judgment often requires a subject mater expert was the primary original reason for the ChatGPT ban. We just don't have the human resources to do that, probably by at least an order of magnitude, if not multiple orders of magnitude.
 
@Makyen 1 post every 30 minutes is easy to do. And feels like rather unpleasant restriction (though I perfectly understand reasoning behind it).
 
11:17 AM
@markalex Yes, it's easy to do, but not 1000 words plus code and doing for a few hours. There were dissenting opinions when the change was discussed, for multiple reasons, but the change did substantially reduce the volume of ChatGPT posts. OTOH, that's just for users with <125 rep and only on SO. With > 125 rep, you just trip a CAPTCHA if answering faster than once every 60 seconds, which is reduced to 30 seconds with > 10k rep. See answer to: "The Complete Rate-Limiting Guide" for complete details.
 
I completely agree that this is reasonable limitation. I even doubt that many users tripped over it. Just remembered how couple of times I drafted my answers and was sitting and refreshing page waiting timeout to pass.
 
 
2 hours later…
^ Flagged as spammy self-promotion (we can still do that, right??)
 
No. We don't want to turn off a high number of users from specific regions of the world
 
@Machavity uuuuuuh.... I think you linked the wrong post?
 
What's better is it has 3 stars by people who clearly didn't check the link :p
 
@Turing85 I think it's warped, engineers' humour.
 
1:45 PM
@AdrianMole Then it's warped in a way my brain is not able to comprehend.
 
When a moderator who is no longer a moderator declines a flag from a non-moderator who is now a moderator, then the moderators (past and present) get confused and, by default, enter strike mode.
 
@NickstandswithUkraine We're not allowed to use insubstantial evidence like "checking the link", though.
 
HAHAHA, wow. OK, fixing...
It even had the title portion of the link. I have no idea how that mistake happened.
@Turing85 This whole thing is, isn't it?
 
@CodyGray well.... for me it is pretty cut and dry. As long as ChatGPT is not able to properly attribute, using it is basically violating licensing. Take, for example, all content on SO, which is under CC-by-SA. If ChatGPT is not able to attribute, it violates the license....
 
@CodyGray You are most unreasonable.
 
1:53 PM
@Andreasdetestscensorship Do you have any reason for saying that?
 
@CodyGray You are the reason.
 
If you rearrange the letters of "Cody Gray" you get "unreasonable".
 
@Turing85 You mean that using the output generated by ChatGPT is plagiarism because ChatGPT is, itself, plagiarizing, because it is just spewing forth variations of things from its training data without any attribution? I guess I follow that. But I don't think that's the main issue.
 
@CodyGray Doesn't matter if it's the main issue. it is one simple (unsolved) issue. As long as this it not solved, ChatGPT is unusable.
 
How do you prove that this has happened? Specifically, how do you prove the plagiarism? We have a very high bar now for proving plagiarism, which is, essentially, having to produce the original content that was copied. I don't know how we'd do that for ChatGPT's output.
 
1:57 PM
@Turing85 Gen AI is in very muddy legal water. Unfortunately, as of now, we can't really say whether or not what it produces is legal. Or to what extent. A judge would have to rule this. There are arguments for and against the output being correct from a legal standpoint. But none of this is backed up in anything we can legally use. No precedent. No ruling for such cases.
 
@VLAZ now, do you want to base your business on that uncertainty?
 
Certainly not, but what does that have to do with moderating a Q&A site?
 
@CodyGray indirectly, by allowing this content. I do not understand why the Stack Exchange network would allow this. Put all other problems on top... and yeah.
 
@VLAZ 50 Shades of Cody.
 
You've put the argument for this being a breach of license. An argument that it's not a breach of license hinges on the transformative nature of the AI. It's not just regurgitating the training that (at which point attribution would be required). It learns and changes it. Not dissimilar to how a human might read a page of information, then with that knowledge consult more pages and ultimate devise a solution but does not need to provide attribution.
These are more or less "both sides" of the issue. And, again, nothing legally can cover it because IP law hasn't caught up here and very likely would need a while.
 
2:00 PM
@VLAZ Whatever you are taking: either muc hless or much more. The current dose seems "unreasnoable".
 
@Turing85 As for this I wouldn't. But the problem is that it isn't up to me. The more big players employ gen AI, the more pressure they can exert for that to be considered "legal".
Even if, for a moment, we set the CC licensing to the side. Let's assume it's legally OK to consume CC training data and produce generated content. There are also a lot of concerns about harvesting the data. This is a legal and also an ethical matter. Is it OK for the data to have been used to train this tool?
Again, no real answers. The AI industry is doing woefully little to address this, either.
 
So... what will happen if we just keep deleting the answers?
 
2:53 PM
Hmm. The two "high rep." review queues (Close & Reopen) seem to have slowed down already. Only 55 CV reviews today, so far. Seems very low. 57 in Reopen may be because it's quite empty but the CV queue is as big as ever.
 
@Turing85 It isn't quite as simple as that, sadly. I am not a lawyer, but AFAIK SE content is dual-licensed. There's a decent chance the second quote linked there would protect them.
/cc @VLAZ
@CodyGray Are you allowed to publicly say (to non-mods) what, if anything, changed in the plagiarism policy that is not about AI-content specifically?
 
You mean in the context of the new Code of Conduct? AI-generated content was not discussed in the context of preparing the new Code of Conduct. At the time the Code of Conduct was prepared and discussed internally, the AI policy remained the same as it always had (and, incidentally, as it still stands in the Help Center pages).
Oh... Re-reading my original message, to which you were replying, I think it was the word "now" which confused you. What I meant when I said "We have a very high bar now for proving plagiarism", I meant that we have always had a high bar for proving this. There have been no recent changes.
 
You said "We have a very high bar now for proving plagiarism, which is, essentially, having to produce the original content that was copied.", and I was wondering about that
 
Yeah, just caught onto that. :-) That hasn't changed. That's just the general standard that we have always followed.
 
3:08 PM
@CodyGray Yep, that’s what I was curious about, but that makes sense. Thanks for clarifying!
 
No problem.
When there are new changes announced all the time, it does make things quite confusing!
 
 
2 hours later…
@Dharman I see that you have not signed the strike letter, and I haven't seen you much these last days. Does this mean that you are not participating in the strike, and that your bots (DharmanBot) will remain active?
 
yes
I am not very active, so I doubt anyone will actually handle the reports
 
Oh. Well, that's a bummer. It would be great to have your support, and even if you don't participate, at least have your name on the letter in support for those that do. And for DharmanBot, I do think it's an important part of the moderation happening.
5
 
5:37 PM
Does the common user know about the open letter?
 
@Turing85 It's been pasted many places, but we are currently drafting a post which'll go on MSE and MSO tomorrow morning.
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship i don't think that this is enough. The common user does not read MSE and MSO.
 
@Turing85 Then what is your suggestion?
 
For starters: correlated Social media activity (e.g. in conjunction to the post).
 
As far as I'm aware, it's our best option. We've also contacted the media about it. Some already wrote an article, others were not interested, and we're awaiting a response from the rest.
@Turing85 There's already a few blog posts, and somebody will write an article on LinkedIn, as a reaction to the CEO's post there.
 
5:46 PM
Speaking of confirmations - if there are any diamonds that are yet to confirm or deny they are participating in the strike, please do so (if you'd like your stance to be known that is), so we all know where we stand in terms of numbers.
 
hello guys
 
So far today only ~43 flags have been handled. The flag queue is rapidly growing in length.
 
@Dharman Im assuming thats the only ones handled by a mod and not the community bot
 
Yes, only the ones handled by mod. The top active mod (me) handled 11 flags.
I have also posted some statistics on MSO meta.stackoverflow.com/a/424989/1839439
I am disappointed with what SE has done and I have no motivation to spend my time on SO now.
 
6:02 PM
@Dharman Then why not sign the letter? That doesn't make any sense?
 
I dont care
 
But you care about the community, don't you?
 
@Dharman at this point (based on following their activity on MSO), I consider the OP to be just trolling...
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine He is. And was very active under Cody's answer, about continuing flagging as before, trying to offend mod's I guess.
 
Quick question: why is the letter dated on 2023-06-05?
 
6:07 PM
Because that's when the strike starts.
And that's our deadline for making smaller changes to it.
Ehm, depending on timezone...
 
hm. Strange, but ok.
 
@Turing85 Yep, wrong link sorry. Thanks for fixing @CodyGray
 
@Turing85 Well, the strike hasn't started. There would be an official announcement post about it tomorrow. But it's not secret that there would be a strike starting tomorrow.
Well, actually depending on your time zone, it might have stated. It's technically 5th of June local time. So for some, this is already the case. The official announcement is going up tomorrow. I'm also changing my username and bio tomorrow to reference the strike. Although I've actually not been partaking in moderation since last Thursday.
 
@VLAZ I find the format strange. Seeing the date on top, I thought it is the creation date of the letter, not the start of the strike. This is inconsistent with the signatures - which predate the date. I further expected that the strike already started. changing the date on top to the creation date and adding a sentence like "The strike starts at 2023-05-06 at 00:00 UTC" (or whatever time) would be clearer.
But in the end, that are just details.
 
The community will always find ways to share the knowledge. We have built a great site for the benefit of the programming community, but the site isn't about the community but rather about the information that we share. If SE inc. doesn't understand the value of the knowledge that we've put into the site, the community will find other ways to share this knowledge. It would be a shame if we lost all this knowledge we collected here to the flood of AI content.
I really hope SE changes its position on the new policy. If they revert it, we can still fight for the integrity of this site. As of n
8
 
6:18 PM
@markalex yes, they definitely are (trying to tread carefully, I don't want to focus on a specific user too much)...
 
@Dharman So you are already "striking". 🙂
 
I guess in a way I am
 
@Dharman Is that final sentence a hint as to the other thing discussed behind locked doors?
 
no
but SE is planning on something similar
 
Sad. I've kinda gotten comfortable about the dumpster fire blowing up.
So what you're saying, is that there's no reason to oppose them, or to go on strike, or in any way fight them, because even if they roll back the AI policy, or communicate more nicely with us, you still believe that they're going to screw the network over, shortly after, with another change that completely destroys the quality assurance?
 
6:32 PM
@Dharman you gain rep for reciving downvotes? lol
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship yes
 
I completely understand Dharman here. It's not just the AI policy. It's...everything. The AI policy just the pinnacle. And merely rolling it back doesn't really serve anything if the attitude of the company doesn't change.
 
Arguably the corresponding realization of the company that it really needs the community to be on board would be a considerable victory
I just fear that there are too many users doing casual curation than those reached by the open letter. Which should be a great thing.
 
It's not just about the attitude, either. It's possibly to have an attitude, believe you're following it, but actually doing something else completely. Eh, hope it makes sense in some way.
 
7:12 PM
@Dharman See you on reddit then? 😆
 
lol, Reddit
 
8:04 PM
@Dharman then I think you should sign the letter: You are one of the newer, but already one of the most charismatic mods on SO...
2
 
8:54 PM
@TylerH @mickmackusa Why was this answer deleted? How to use prepare() with dynamic column names?
 
9:33 PM
room lockdown takes place at midnight UTC?
 
@Turing85 Currently scheduled for 04:00UTC.
 
okay thianks. In this case: it was an honor serving with you 😀 See you in the MOSH-pit.
 
M--
This may have been answered already, but is there a plan for monitoring AI generated content during the strike? Not necessarily to remove them afterwards, but as a metric to be used in potential future talks with SO. It may be helpful to also get them reviewed by SMEs to get some stats on false positives, wrong answers, etc.
@Dharman This is the second request actually chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/56403834
 
I would urge everyone to reconsider their stance of returning to Stack Overflow only if the AI policy is rolled back. We need to see concrete examples of some real empathy with the community, and understanding of what this platform is.
 
9:48 PM
yes, but neither explains why the answer should be deleted
 
M--
I don't disagree, I am asking to educate myself (plus I am not an SME). But isn't "irrelevant to asked question" ground for deletion?
 
Why is it irrelevant?
If something offers a solution to the question asked, how can it be irrelevant?
 
M--
As I said, I don't know much about php. If you say it's relevant, then it is :)
 
As a layman I can confirm that it looks like a non sequitur unless you look into it properly
took me 3 tries to find the %s in the question
Example applied to the question would help a great deal
 
maybe it's because I know PHP, but to me the answer look relevant even if I didn't know PHP
 
9:55 PM
Not at a glance, no. Then again I also don't know database stuff.
 
Anyway, I think the best people to answer why it should be deleted are the ones that voted to delete. For the time being I have undeleted it.
 
Yup
@Makyen I recommend a pinned comment message about that unless it's still likely to change
 
M--
@Dharman well maybe I don't know php and I am dumb at the same time :) but yeah, they'd know better why or why not it should be deleted. I only shared those links because I had questioned the validity of those requests because the answer haven't had any downvotes at the time.
On a separate note, I was wondering if you have any concerns about the open letter (considering that you haven't signed it). If you don't, obviously, I won't demand a signature or don't expect you to explain why you didn't sign. Just wanna know if there is something problematic that I missed.
 
I have no issues with the letter, but also I haven't read it.
 
M--
that explains it :) thank you
 
10:03 PM
@AndrasDeak--СлаваУкраїні I updated the existing pin.
 
np. Thanks for mentioning it.
 
10:31 PM
@Dharman Good catch, Dharman. That was 100% an inappropriate del-vote request. I misread the answer and thought that there was no differentiation between values and identifiers. Upon rereading, the %i is not %d(integer), but an identifier. I have removed my inappropriate downvote.
Another question: If a chat room is frozen, will a super ping work to contact a community moderator or do I need the room to be thawed first?
 
10:52 PM
@AndrasDeak--СлаваУкраїні :)
 
@mickmackusa the room is going to be put in gallery mode, not frozen (apologies if you didn't mean SOCVR specifically) - that seems to be the general plan regarding moderation rooms. That means that the only ones who will be able to post messages are: mods, ROs, and those with explicit write access. I presume super-pings follow the same convention.
 
I want to step down as mod on JSE. I was going to just super ping a community mod, but the TL Q&A says that I should use community@ email address. Do they mean community@joomla.stackexchange.com ?
 
well, that's definitely a question for a diamond ^^". On a tangential note, I presume this means you are joining the strike (the answer is probably obvious, just checking)?
 
My reasons for stepping down are personal and I wish not to discuss.
 
@mickmackusa "Contact Us" -> "Account Issue" -> "I want to step down as site moderator" You'll probably need to do it from the site on which you're a moderator.
 
11:08 PM
Thanks. Now I see it.
 
@mickmackusa sure, I was just checking whether your reasons are related to the current situation or not. Best of luck! Sad to hear you are stepping down.
 
@mickmackusa np. I wish you the best of luck with whatever is going on.
8
 
Good luck going forward, @mickmackusa. :)
 

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