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4b0
4b0
06:14
@KenWhite Answer have not negative score(+1/-1=0) so why it's invalid request.
@4b0 It's a link-only answer to a $3000 per seat product that is not a requirement to solve the problem.
07:12
Can someone link me to ChatGPT? I tried googling it but can't find anything.
07:25
@bad_coder ???? It's the first entire visible Google results page for me, with a bunch of news articles about it "below the fold". But, here.
@Makyen google front page is very different in my country compared to when someone posts it on SO. For me it was all random chat sites.
07:59
@karel general computing I would say
 
1 hour later…
09:15
@mickmackusa If it's an answer according to SO standards, even if not of high quality, it should be posted as an answer. Comments are not meant for answering questions (Privileges: comment everywhere: "When shouldn't I comment?...Answering a question or providing an alternate solution to an existing answer; instead, post an actual answer (or edit to expand an existing one)"). Comments also can't be downvoted.
 
2 hours later…
10:56
@Adriaan I was going to make a joke about "how are you sure it's a bot? Could be a normal user <doing completely bot-like behaviour>" However, I then saw the username. It would have come out way dumber than even initially intended.
But, uh, how to handle that post? It's not spam...because it doesn't promote anything. R/A?
Or just delvote?
@VLAZ I went R/A
Seems a diamond solved my conundrum.
@gnat screenshot of the day worthy
 
1 hour later…
stackoverflow.com/a/74688437 Do we have anything like a SD rule for answers that start In this article,? Seems like a giant red flag to me. This one I think is either AI generation, plagiarism or just rambling a bunch of topical sentences in the hope of looking like an answer. But generally I'm skeptical that a good answer written in good faith by a competent person would ever start out that way.
because that writing style indicates a lack of awareness of where one is writing
@KarlKnechtel I've not checked but I'd actually expect it to be plagiarised anyway. The ones I've noticed that start with something like that are actually copy/pasted from an article.
But to answer your question - apparently not. I checked Charcoal for that post and there is no results.
@KarlKnechtel OK, for that answer specifically - the initial paragraph comes from here. But the second doesn't seem to be from the same article.
@VLAZ It's plagiarism. Just minor modifications ("dict" to "dictionary" and removal of numbers)
Ah, I see Jeanne checked it more thorougly. It's all from there. I just missed the modifications.
Yeah :) I was just copy/pasting the sentence.
Maybe there should be a plagiarism penalty, like there is for spam?
13:16
@JeanneDark Good find.
Smokey will report them, at least.
Will it also report "This article" then? (like "This article provides information on...")
"In this article," at the beginning of a paragraph.
Well, hopefully it matches beginning of paragraphs. Jeff Schaller isn't sure.
@VLAZ that... seems kinda embarrassing
they aren't sure about the semantics of the regex matching of their own tool?
Not their own.
13:30
@Vickel Ugh. The new question wizard is the worst of all possible worlds.
Makyen cleared it up. In short, the search goes through the HTML and a post starts with <p>, hence it wouldn't match.
I see.
don't they have access to the markdown? Is there a benefit to searching the parsed html instead?
@KarlKnechtel Not sure. One benefit I can think of is checking for dodgy HTML like linking punctuation which you can do in both HTML and Markdown. This reduces the check to just HTML.
@KarlKnechtel also NOT speaking some basic English doesn't help a lot either
13:40
Seeking opinions: Is this suitable for a "Needs focus..." closure, for being too broad?
... I think trying to explain the many and various colour-scheme options for a fractal plot is far too long for an SO answer.
(I have a Mandelbrot plotter embedded in one of my software packages; I could very easily spend many weeks exploring different colour scheme options.)
14:01
@VLAZ I think only beginning of message, but not in a place where I can check
@KarlKnechtel there are quirks with the Stack Exhange API though some of the design might originally have been basically a coin toss
accessing the markdown would be better for some use cases but now we have rules which depend on the HTML representation, and you would also need to make changes on the metasmoke side if you wanted to change it now, IIRC
I can imagine false positives where "this article" refers forward to a link to an on-line resource later on in the text; but for a watch, good enough
@Adriaan I like your template for "english only" comments btw.
@KarlKnechtel thanks. I'd like a more automated template though ... Currently it's just [Posts on Stack Overflow have to be in English](https://meta.stackexchange.com/q/13676). Please [edit] the post to translate it., after which I check the post's language. If there's a locale available, I go to the user's profile and based on whether they have an account on the locale I post either the "here by mistake" or "go to the sister site" extension.
14:17
@Adriaan honestly I would just hard-code it in whatever you're using. You won't be able to avoid the language-detection step, and there are only four available locales. I don't think it's worthwhile checking whether the user has posted on the localized site before.
@KarlKnechtel That'd leave me with the general comment + 8 locale-versions. Rather than scrolling, I'll just type quicker. Besides, the magic links ([es.so], [pt.so] etc) make linking very fast. I do want to keep the distinction between the OP having or not having an account, so I'll keep that in
14:45
@user692942 I'm not sure that's a duplicate
I think the question is actually just closable as something else and OP is confused about how editing VBA scripts while running them works
@KarlKnechtel a complication is if you are unsure if it's Portuguese or Spanish (often not hard; but sometimes it is), Japanenese or Chinese (ditto), Russian or ... a number of other languages - most embarrassingly these days if you think it's Russian when in fact it's Ukrainian
While it's true that Japanese and Chinese have a lot of overlap in Unicode code points used, it's almost impossible to say anything beyond a pithy proverb or a title for a work without hiragana or katakana.
Russian and Ukrainian are a lot harder to distinguish without actually knowing at least one of those. (In theory, I used to know some Ukrainian.)
Spanish lacks a with tilde, which is hard to avoid in Portuguese.
Also you can tell Portuguese usually by seeing the word em
Makes it easy to spot 'em?
@Mithical :-)
15:00
Is that what the HTML <em> tag is for?
@TylerH Now that they've added "extra" code showing they've tried disabling warnings it probably isn't.
Obligatory reminder not to mod flag for request removal. Reply to the relevant request(s) and ask for it to be moved or trashed, and a RO will take care of it
Can this request please be removed as it is no longer relevant - chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/55639905#55639905
^ spicy
@user692942 ah yeah, the lovely "here's all the information that changes my question entirely" edit :-)
6
15:20
@TylerH Good. I tried to but couldn't think of a decent replacement.
15:49
Sorry about that weird double-post. Funky, fat-fingered mobile.
... editing chat on the mobile site is ... um ... not straightforward.
16:47
Could that guess count as a partial answer?
@JeanneDark Heh. What's a partial answer? If it was framed as a response rather than question, and had included code ... at least it set the asking person on the right track as the self-answer shows.
@tink A question can still be an answer...
Was that red-flag deleted because of the added (admittedly rude) commentary? That could just have been edited-out.
@AdrianMole Well, it was directed at specific users which makes it different from more general rudeness
Hmm. Seems it was red-flagged by a mod.
16:53
@VLAZ Goodness ... then about a quarter of my comments might have been answers?
yes
a lot of times a question is too unclear to have a real answer. But experts (or people who post a lot of SO answers) can pretty accurately guess at what the user did wrong absent info that proves it
9 times out of 10 your guess will be the correct answer if posted as an answer
Oh wow ... I'll work on that. Thanks for the clarification.
Difference is that comments can't get downvotes. ;)
 
1 hour later…
17:58
^ That question gets tons of the same spam
@JeanneDark Yeah. And smokey only caught one. Weirdly, the one without an affiliate code in the URL.
Oh, great. I tried to protect it but it didn't do anything. Examined the network tag, it just threw an error. But without any response body. I reload and somebody already protected it. The site just didn't tell me anything.
I guess it was automatically protected
apparently. I actually didn't even know it did that. I thought somebody beat me to it.
18:09
@IanCampbell Many thanks after.
@KarlKnechtel As others have mentioned, the primary issues are A) everything that already exists for SD relies on looking at the HTML.
B) Writing detections for Markdown is notably more complex, because you add multiple additional ways to represent structure. Also keep in mind that the HTML being checked is preprocessed by SE, so isn't arbitrary HTML, which simplifies things notably. For example, in the HTML there's one and only one way to represent a link <a href="">.
The attributes even must be in a single order, rather than arbitrary. For Markdown, you have all the HTML ways and inline links [link text](URL), double end links [link text][semi-arbitrary text referencing a URL *somewhere else* in the document], and single end link [semi-arbitrary text referencing *somewhere else* in the document]. All that adds significant complexity, effectively changing things from being OK with just a regular expression to needing to be parsed first.
There are, of course, additional examples of multiple possible types of representations for what ends up being the same content when converted to HTML (e.g. code blocks, etc.).
Overall, yes, SD has access to the Markdown. It should have some detections which look in the Markdown, because there are things that can only be found there, but the code for it hasn't been written, yet.
@VLAZ I reported that as a bug a while ago. meta.stackexchange.com/questions/381277/…
@miken32 You also get many of the after-thanks.
18:45
@gre_gor the question has been edited, does it have enough focus/details now?
19:06
Can anyone see if this answer is plagiarized? I'm not having much luck and I'm a little suspicious since the answer was posted less then 3 minutes after the Q was created.
And the mysterious cutoff in the original rev. Initial search reveals nothing. GPT maybe?
Same user just posted this answer stackoverflow.com/a/74693201/5320906 so perhaps gpt
Yeah, at the risk of user targeting, some investigation seems warranted. Invoking the mod exception here
19:22
@TylerH I don't see any edit after I posted the request. It's missing the requirements for the language/parser. Otherwise we can only guess what the teacher's feedback meant.
It this answer spam? stackoverflow.com/a/74683762 It's advertising Syncfusion components.
Another answer here: stackoverflow.com/a/74683618
@VLAZ yeah, no affiliation is mentioned. That is spam.
20:10
@NathanOliver User posted two answers to another question and looked highly likely they were GPT generated. This is such a pain
@gre_gor ah, I assumed your request was posted before the edits. Thanks
@Machavity I meant my comment as a data point rather then to target the user per se, but I can see that is rather a fine distinction. In general, is a mod flag the recommended course of action for possibly gpt-generated posts encountered in the wild?
@snakecharmerb Yeah. There were some flags on that user in the course of trying to sort it out. The only good news is we're all probably looking at the end of the queue now, rather than the beginning
20:27
Also, it has a bunch of bad words. But apparently that's what the question is about - trying to distinguish bad from good words.
20:46
@DavidW It's probably posted twice because of the Ask Wizard. It presents you with two fields to fill in. One goes at the top of the question the other at the bottom. Many users seem to just paste the same text in both places.
@VLAZ That makes sense
@Machavity Thanks for looking into it.
21:02
:55642087 Code review
22:18
Is this answer made with ChatGPT. The comment on the answer mentioned it.
it does follow a common format
> It looks like ... To fix this, ... This should fix ...
other answers don't seem to show the same signs, so dunno
eh, that's not true, the other answer posted within 2 min of that answer is as well.
@KevinB One answer seems genuine - it's a code dump. In fairness, there is also a link. But overall, it's definitely a ChatGPT user. Posting a flag...
> It sounds like you're trying to download a file using the wget command, but you don't know the name of the file in advance
You don't say! it's almost as if that's exactly the question!
Also, have a look at this one for some clear gibberish: "you are creating a new object called randomNum at the start of your for loop, which is shadowing the randomNum variable that you declared at the top of your code" it's not an object, it's a variable. Yes, it shadows the outer one but the next part is
"this means that the randomNum variable that you are using inside your for loop is not the same as the randomNum variable that you are using to check if a number has already been generated." which is 100% wrong. It's the inner variable which is used. The outer has no impact on anything.
That's just the first paragraph.
@Ethan Maybe, but very hard to prove.
... the lack of formatting for inline code is .. um ... suspicious, though.
I would venture to suggest that someone posting such a thorough answer would, at the very least, know how to add the relevant tags (backticks) to inline code.
22:33
> It will only generate up to 5 numbers if there are at least 5 unique numbers generated.
... However, their previous answers are much the same.
@AdrianMole ChatGPT seems to sometimes generate inline code formatting, sometimes it doesn't.
But sometimes is not usable as evidence.
No, I'm just making an observation. It's not evidence of anything.
... we have to work on the "benefit of the doubt" principle.
22:36
what benefit is there when in either case the answers are bad
Nah, there is no doubt there. 10 answers posted in an hour + they conform to ChatGPT generated content + they contain eloquent garbage
Some of the posts might have been human-generated. But whatever.
The flag is for the user in general.
Not sure what "eloquent garbage" actually means, but ... yeah, oK.
The answer is written in a way that, if you don't dig into it, it wouldn't be that hard to just pass it by as a fine answer
Posts that look semi-reasonable to someone with no understanding of the issue, but are obviously bad from the perspective of a SME
but when you start getting into the details... there's just nonsense statement after nonsense statement
22:39
Check the last post I linked. That. It's very convincing sounding and elaborate description. Which doesn't hold any value because it's wrong and/or misleading.
technobabble
But I live in a world where everyone is nice, good, and follows the rules. Which is why I haven't (yet) run for moderator.
4
... with the exception of my ~ 2,000 red flags, of course. But they're just an aberration.
Before now, the eloquence of a post was pretty highly correlated with how likely the post is to be correct and useful. That's no longer a heuristic we can rely on
3
5 questions in a row all using wildly different tags
going from java, to javascript, to python, to powershell,
The more I look, the more suspicious I become ...
Who are all these sceptics in SOCVR, who challenge the very nature of humanity?
22:44
it's an unfortunate situation, because the only effective way at truely detecting it is effectively user targeting
just looking at one answer... you can easily assume it's just a bad answer
or a language barrier
None of those answers (yet) have crossed my expertise-domain.
However, even if 'justified', user-targeting is off-limits in here.
i don't understand why people are so blatantly using this, like, if they just picked one tag, and used it sparingly over the course of days rather than posting 10 answers in an hour...
Patience is a virtue. Those without virtue don't necessarily have it.
it's like questions here are a sparse resource or something
there's 10k unanswered jquery questions from 10 years ago they could be answering if they want
22:51
I was a little curious about the current notification structure, can someone help with a quick question: Is the only way to clear the notification count, or to mark something as read, to click the read or read all button in the inbox?
Nobody knows. It's a new feature - we're not supposed to understand it.
... but I think there's a "mark all as read" button.
I am glad its not just me that is fully in the dark on this. From what meta seemed to say it was a bug that was marked as a feature and is now considered implemented.
Yes, you have to specifically interact with the bits within the inbox to dismiss a notification
such as mark all as read, or the little mail icon on the right of each notification
Yeah, that's so backwards lol
there was a bug with the old one, due to a feature of the new inbox rolling out early
22:56
Alright, thanks for the help :) A bug report doesn't seem to fit, but I guess a FR to auto indicate would be correct
also, if you open your inbox in chat, it'll mark all as read in your main inbox too
aka the old functionality
Oh, interesting
I wish the notifications were marked read by default when you opened them (like before), but you could click somewhere on one to indicate "Not read yet" to temporarily put that message in a separate unread category
unfortunately that would make the mark as unread somewhat useless
because now every time you open it it'd undo what you marked as unread
:p
"Separate category" - one which wouldn't automatically be marked as read until you specifically marked it as such
22:58
i just want a userscript that auto-marks as read when i open the inbox
i accept that i might "miss" something, i don't care, i never missed anything i cared about in the old one
Like a bookmark for the inbox?
Yeah, I don't think I missed anything from the previous setup
@KevinB Could probably be done with something along the lines of setInterval(() => document.querySelector('.js-mark-all-as-read')?.click(), 300), it'd be pretty trivial
@KevinB I tried raising that point on the MSE answer requesting that feature and KRyan came in and tried calling me stupid (-:
Is anyone using the mark as unread button?
@TylerH yeah I saw that, there has to be a dupe for saving a canvas to svg?
@TravisJ Option 1. Mark all as read button. Does what it says. 2. Click the envelop on each message individually. 3. Attempt to open the message. Seems it's fuzzy on whether it would work. SE have done some shenanigans trying to guess which interaction does open a message. Middle-click and left click should work. Maybe. Right-click -> "Open in new tab" does not mark it as read.
A couple of Mac users also complained that apparently opening in a new tab wasn't properly detected.
23:09
@VLAZ option 3 doesn't, for me, mark the message as read
Figures...
Also, if you want to mark all as read, you have to have all the messages loaded. If you have a "Refresh (n)" (where n shows the number of not shown but unread messages) marking all as read won't mark those.
Also, due to what I can only assume is a bug, if you open and close the inbox notifications even once, then any new notifications you get in that tab will never show up in the inbox but as that Refresh thing.
It's highly annoying.
23:34
@TravisJ I tried to. I generally have a few notifications that I will need to follow up with, but will take a little bit of time (or be done when I'm in the mood to handle it). So I marked a few notifications as unread. But then I ran into the issue (being a frequent chat user) that I marked all my notifications read the first time a chat notification came through and I clicked the inbox in chat so...
dbc
dbc
Ugh. Just raised 3 custom flags for answers that seem to be ChatGPT-generated "plausible nonsense". I'm now convinced that banning such answers is a good thing.
Is it better to ask for access to AI Domination and discuss things there, than to raise flags?
try 50
here's a good review queue: stackoverflow.com/…
Could be a bit better to discuss in the other room, but raising flags is still the way to communicate to mods that something needs to be done
Oh, I didn't know about the room.
I'd still raise flags but I think I might also join there.
dbc
dbc
Wonder if we can train OpenAI to detect OpenAI generated answers in that review queue?
@dbc The problem is - can you trust the results?
dbc
dbc
23:43
(comment deleted by OpenAI)
Otherwise, the answer is "yes". However, whether the results of the detection is useful or not is debatable.
dbc
dbc
The problem with raising flags is that each flag would seem to require an argument making the case that the answer is plausible nonsense. I'm having trouble fitting that argument in the flag. Last flag I raised, I linked to a comment I made that contained part of the argument because I couldn't fit the whole thing.
@dbc I just raise flags for general user behaviour.
I encourage you both to join Domination if you're interested in discussing that.
Since, I have, in fact, done that test.
I clicked the button.
23:46
Yes, there are better ways to flag - join the room for details
Ah, somebody also clicked a button. Great, I have access.
dbc
dbc
I clicked also.

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