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00:42
How do I go about asking a mod about looking into revenge voting? :)
Flagging one of your own posts always works.
Thanks Henry, I'll try that.
NP. I've only done it once, but the voting did end up being corrected.
@tink Ah, I forgot, there is a caveat in the faq which recommends waiting 24 hours before escalating because the automatic reversal script might catch it first.
D'Oh ... too late :(
I thought the script only kicks in if there were more than 2 votes, though ...
^^^^^^^^^^ Also it's a SD Report
 
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05:38
@bad_coder that is a decent meal. Hope you enjoyed it.
 
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08:07
@AdrianMole I believe your observation about tag edit suggestions not showing is correct: What is the maximum edit queue size in Stack Overflow?
 
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12:17
Is this NAA or spam?
12:29
@JeanneDark I would say NAA ... but I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out I'm wrong ...
Thank you
jps
jps
12:50
a question tagged and asking about Hello Recursion... any SME for "Hello Recursion here?
@jps sorry, I only do ... every day.
 
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14:14
Are there any rules for reversing the duplicate direction of two post? Because currently Ternary Operator - JAVA points to Ternary Operators Java, but I think the former is of way more quality, than the dupe target.
@Lino How about a merge?
@rene might work, but I don't know the process behind merging questions. Also one would then have to probably touch all answers as they use the code from the original question..
So, not a merge then? Because the questions are too different.
@Lino you do have a gold badge in Java. You can single handly re-open the question and then hammer the other one.
14:25
If my opinion matters, I also think the former question is a better dupe target than the latter.
@rene so be it
will also edit, the now "canocical"
🚽
awesome!
Oh, I just found out that is talking about base 3 and not about the operator, it seems to be misused quite often. Also the same applies to
...damn that. There is a conditional operator which is a ternary operator (operator which takes three operands). For some reason, it's mostly known as the ternary operator. Which isn't correct. In some (a lot of?) languages there is a single ternary operator but it doesn't really make sense to label it that way, rather than its gods given name: "conditional operator".
And now, it's out in the wild with a bunch of conditional operator questions labelled "ternary" which makes even less sense.
14:34
meh
blame javascript
It's wide spread even outside JS. Not sure who started it first.
that's fine
15:31
With a name, what majority are calling "it" matters. You can't just go against the flow, because it isn't the original meaning of "it".
15:56
@jps It's just a programming challenge, from here. As far as I can see, there is literally no correct way to tag that question (it doesn't even have a programming language associated with it), which pretty much stands as testament to the fact that it's completely inappropriate here.
@TheMaster That's not true: random people don't get to name things, the inventor of them does.
@CodyGray I've come across cases where the inventor was sidelined and the publisher sponsor named the invention.
OK, yeah, I suppose if someone is sponsoring it, that also gives them privileges to name it.
But the point is that things don't get named just because random people decide.
We can't just decide by consensus to start calling you "good_coder", and that become your name. It can, at most, become what we call you in this room. It isn't your name, because that's chosen by you.
The taskbar's "notification area", which people incorrectly call "the tray", is my favorite example. It's not "the tray", even though people incorrectly call it that.
@CodyGray Man, pure power and bullying. In one case the author was a personal friend, the algorithm was new and unprecedented, and the powers that be just took it from the author and slapped their own name on it.
The inventor had a court case, but no money to sue the institution.
The powers that be somehow owned it, I suppose? For example, it was invented by a person working for a company or university, and the company/university claimed ownership?
@CodyGray they just took the publication and changed it, they didn't own it.
16:10
I believe in many jurisdictions the law says that the institution employing the person who discovers something actually does own it, not the individual.
That's a "gray" area. (One I personally have to be careful with). I wouldn't want an institution to go through my work machine and take code I developed on my own time and claim it as theirs.
If you're officially being payed for 9-5, they've got no right to take your after hours IP from you.
But... at least where I live and under every employment contract I've ever seen, they could do precisely that, and, in fact, already have done so by law. It's not a gray area. Not sure if your laws are different, of course.
They do if you use work-provided equipment to do it, and you said it's your work machine.
That's the grey area. Just because I downloaded my code it doesn't make it theirs, it isn't CC if I change a bunch of lines they don't get to own the whole project.
That could be argued, of course. I, also, would instinctively say it's unreasonable to assume that transfers ownership of the entire project, developed outside of their auspices. But it is not legally at issue (again, in my jurisdiction and under every employment contract I've personally seen and am familiar with) whether they own those lines of code that you wrote and contributed using tools that they provided.
Like I said, they'd love to get royalties on my after hours work so I have to be extra careful.
16:17
The easy way to avoid that is not using work-provided equipment or other resources during your after-hours work.
whether that's effective that depends on your contract, the jurisdiction, and whether the after-hours work is related to your job/the company's business.
@RyanM the related part is what's bothering me. Some of my personal work was parallel/related to my main activity.
I'm unfortunately only familiar with the California law on that subject
I unfortunately also work for an employer with...very broad businesses.
Questions like this shouldn't really be dignified with an answer. — anon582847382 Oct 31, 2014 at 19:38
Ugh.
@bad_coder That might give them a foot in the door. They might not get it all but I wouldn't be surprised if some sort of royalty or profit sharing is imposed on profits.
16:26
@RyanM I'm planning on consulting with a lawyer in the near future about this.
^ definitely do that
@NathanOliver right before severage and taking my work to knock on some doors with it.
Yes, consult with an attorney before moving forward.
Good news, everyone! The attorney told me that I'm putting myself at risk by doing any work of any kind. Therefore, I'll be immediately ceasing to do any work, as a matter of my own protection and sanity.
3
@NathanOliver I got that idea from a Makyen post, the possibility had never occurred to me before.
16:29
Did you sign an employment contract where you are working? If so you'll want them to comb through that as well
@CodyGray But why does the attorney still work?
@NathanOliver employment contracts are broad here, usual clause "company owns everything" is in there.
But they can't own what they don't have a copy of...
posession is only nine tenths of the law, there is that other pesky tenth that gets in the way ;)
@bad_coder that's not how ownership works :-)
@VLAZ wikipedia blames CPL for the origin of it en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%3F:
@CodyGray which is why gif is pronounced "jif" :-)
16:42
Yes.
@Lino The appropriate tag for the operator is , for which is already a synonym
@bad_coder yeah, that's always a good idea if you're concerned. best of luck!
In the US, typically any work you do with employer resources is property of the employer, given the whole "you used the employer's resources to create the work". Whether it was on your own time or not is irrelevant. Unless you have a contract that stipulates you retain all rights to work created outside of normal business hours, which is unusual. And if such a stipulation exists, I'd bet the employer is going to restrict your access outside of those hours
Employers don't pay you to own what you do during 9-5, they pay you to tell you what to do during 9-5. They automatically own what you do by extension of requiring that you do it while on their equipment or connected to their services.
17:13
@bad_coder You're substantially past the initial point where it would a good idea to consult with a lawyer. You appear to desire to retain ownership, but being able to do so is inconsistent with some of the things you've said you've done. Consulting with a lawyer, which will cost you money, sooner, rather than later, may save you significant problems later, potentially with relatively minor changes to what you're doing or want to do, but you won't really know until you get legal advice.
The ownership will depend on your jurisdiction and the actual circumstances, which include, but aren't limited to, the laws in your jurisdiction(s) (including case law/rulings), your employment contract, what it is (in relation to your employment, and exactly what you've done, how you've done it, where you've done it, when you've done it, the resources you've used which are owned/controlled by others (e.g. your employer's resources), etc.
It's a complex area. If the eventual outcome matters significantly to you, then you're best off getting actual legal advice soon/now.
If you choose not to get legal advice, then your best bet is to keep what you desire to retain ownership of as separate from your work as possible (i.e. don't use work resources, at all; don't work on it "at work"; don't work on it during time you are supposed to be working; etc.).
17:39
Is it sensible/worthwhile to raise a custom flag on a deleted post marked as spam (or R/A) that isn't spam? (Discussion in SOBotics.)
If the author's user account is not deleted and/or it's being incorrectly used as an audit, then yes, because the incorrect marking as spam is having negative consequences. Otherwise, probably not worth the effort.
I would go with your last sentence, in the case under discussion, then.
... but would you decline such a mod flag? (These things matter, after all, to some!)
@AdrianMole I've done this several times on multiple sites, including some times on SO prior to being a moderator.
Seems like the parent Q was mod-deleted but that there was an outstanding red flag on one of the answers.
The answer in question wasn't deleted as spam. It was merely deleted implicitly, as a result of its parent question being deleted. A spam flag on it was marked "helpful", but no spam flags were validated against the post, so there are no consequences. Thus, that doesn't need to be flagged or have any action taken on it.
17:44
@AdrianMole Then, it doesn't sound like it was deleted as spam/R/A.
@AdrianMole Then, I would only decline the flag if raised by a user to whom such things matter.
@CodyGray Hehe.
@AdrianMole If the post isn't locked and deleted by the Community user, then it's quite unlikely that the red-flag deletion penalties were applied. It's possible, but it would require either the system to malfunction (has happened, but very rare), or a moderator to actively change the state of the post, which you should be able to see in the timeline.
@AdrianMole Declining would depend on the explanation provided. If the user appears to be raising the flag in good faith, then it's unlikely to be declined. Explicitly indicating what you see that causes you to believe there might be a problem is a good step.
I could certainly see mods declining that flag on the simple basis that, in their judgment, no action needs to be taken, regardless of how good the provided explanation was.
Of course, it would also be reasonable to mark such a flag as helpful, even while declining to take any action. It just depends on what you think helpful/decline statuses mean: do they apply to the flag itself, or are they some kind of meta-commentary on the flagger?
Possibly decline, for that specific answer, given that the post wasn't deleted as spam and any user able to see the post would have been able to determine that.
17:53
But the message on the post does say, "This answer was marked as spam or rude or abusive and is therefore not shown..."
@Makyen I only started realizing earlier this year the situation I was finding myself in. I'll be getting legal advice soon.
@bad_coder I'm glad to hear it. Good luck.
@AdrianMole So then your flag would be, "I think this answer is not spam or rude or abusive and should therefore be shown?"
My flag wouldn't say that ... because there is no "my flag".
A hypothetical flag. The one we're discussing whether it would be hypothetically marked as helpful or declined.
17:56
@AdrianMole Yes. That's done whenever there's a spam or R/A flag that's marked helpful. It doesn't mean that the spam/R/A penalties were applied. Going off what Cody said: What are you flagging for? to remove the -100 penalty which wasn't applied? To dispute the spam/R/A flag so the post is no hidden in the revision history?
Well, hypothetically, that would mean I should be raising such flags on a very large number of posts that took one or two red flags but were not actually deleted by the Community Bot.
@AdrianMole Only if you thought they should be shown; that's the point.
Those with 10k can always view them, anyway, through the Revision History. Those with < 10k cant see them, whether or not the spam-lock on the content is there.
Sounds like you agree that the flag would be utterly pointless, then?
Well, I did warn my interlocutor in SOBotics that they may likely get a declined flag. :)
18:01
I mean, again, to underscore the larger point: this is why we always tell people to think about (and describe) what they are hoping to accomplish by raising a flag.
If you think that, ultimately, no action needs to be taken, for whatever reason, then you don't need to flag it.
If you genuinely thought that the author of that answer was being penalized by the spam flag, even though that happens to be wrong, then raising a flag on it would be appropriate, because there is a specific action that you think needs to be carried out, with a meritorious purpose.
Now, that can't guarantee that your flag won't be declined, simply because you happen to be wrong about some esoterica of the platform, but a declined flag doesn't necessarily mean that you were wrong to flag it, given the information available to you at the time. It might just mean that the moderator declined to take any action as a result of your flag.
However, if one of my own posts were to be flagged as spam (say, maliciously, because I can't think of any other reason why it would be) and that ended up being deleted (but not as spam) along with the parent Q, then I would definitely consider raising a mod flag on it ... just to "clear the record", so to speak.
And maybe similarly for other users that I 'know' well through their activity.
I think "this clearly non-spam post was maliciously flagged as spam" would be a valid basis for a flag. But if there were no evidence of malice, I'm not sure why any action would need to be taken.
"This was closed/deleted for the wrong reason" is not, generally, a valid basis for flagging a post, unless the appropriate remedy is opening/undeleting (as opposed to merely changing the label).
That is, perhaps, an issue of scale. When you have thousands of pending flags, it makes very little sense to spend time changing meaningless labels that have no effect on ultimate consequences.
@AdrianMole No, that's not what either of us said. A) why does it matter that it's hidden? B) in the specific instance, do you think it's wrong to have it hidden? C) That it's hidden also implies the post has an auto-downvote applied as part of the helpful flag. Do you feel the post is of high enough quality such that it shouldn't have a downvote? D) are there indications that a moderator has already made a choice on this answer and/or the question? The moderator may or may not have been fully aware of the situation, as the action might have been from a page other than the question page, but if a moderator took an action, then they were likely fully aware of the secondary effects of their actions.
18:16
(A) It doesn't. (B) Not really. (C) No. (D) Yes. :)
Outcome of (A+B+C+D)/4 ... no flag raised.
There's math involved? No wonder people have so much trouble with flagging.
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22:40
Does anyone know if this is truly on-topic here? How to detect arm64 architecture in a Vagrantfile on a mac?

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