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12:54 AM
@pppery why is it always Blender...
We get such detailed questions about Blender that are completely off-topic, but otherwise good...
 
@RyanM There's a blender.stackexchange.com You could migrate them
Oh wait you already know that since you posted a link to that site in the comments
 
Yeah, it's a couple weeks old so I'd default to them just reposting.
if it were new, I might migrate.
 
1:34 AM
 
 
1 hour later…
3:03 AM
 
3:59 AM
 
4:10 AM
Is this a valid resource request?
 
4:26 AM
@cigien it seems like it's asking for a library...
 
Yeah, it does, but the Q&A does mention an official API, so I'm not sure.
 
5:23 AM
... offline ...
 
hmm... that's why my edit submit kept failing...
 
stackstatus.net not very helpful so far
 
seems to be back, I only had a momentary "cannot load close dialog" issue
 
yup, works for me too now, but it was down long enough for me to attempt to reload the main page a couple of times
 
stackstatus seems good for telling you the systems are up but bad at telling you they are unreachable
 
5:40 AM
@Nick They didn't even manage to properly copy the non-link content from one of the other answers :)
 
@Cristik I don't think spammers are renowned for the amount of effort they put in :)
Some have even not put in the effort of adding the spam link!
 
@Nick Lazy spammers, making the community do all the work for them.
 
:)
 
5:58 AM
I know self-duplicates between SE sites aren't allowed. However, do I now post a delv-pls on the question in this room, knowing it's 20k and will roomba in 10 days, flag for a mod to do this, or wait for the roomba altogether?
 
if it's mundane, probably just wait for roomba?
 
I'd say mod flagging, as they can see if the person has done this in the past also
and yeah, meanwhile wait for roomba :)
that SD report looks like a spam post
a well-disguised spam :)
 
6:14 AM
is it a true fact that users with the same email will have the same default gravatar image?
 
@JeanneDark interesting how someone felt the need to edit the question and add the "irrelevant" paragraph :)
 
@blackgreen I believe so, yes
there are a couple of mechanisms, if they authenticated via Google (I think it is?) they will get a plate with their initial
 
I think there are several factors that contribute to the avatar: signup IP, email, etc
 
the gravatar mechanism is tied to your email address (and only that)
 
thanks. does posting stuff with multiple unregistered accounts with (assuming) the same credentials constitute any form of abuse?
 
6:18 AM
it's suspicious, but in the absence of collusion between these accounts, I don't think they accomplish anything they could not otherwise accomplish
 
unreg users perhaps can't vote, can they?)
 
@blackgreen They can't vote
 
ok, so then I don't have evidence of any wrongdoing, but I've been seeing quite some suspicious stuff recently and...
I don't like suspicious stuff
I guess the only possible course of action right now is: ¯_(ツ)_/¯
 
7:09 AM
Should this answer that makes no attempt to resolve the problem be flagged as NAA? I assume not, but ugh. stackoverflow.com/a/965253/2943403
 
@mickmackusa if you flag it NAA I suspect it might be declined because it's not immediately apparent that it isn't at least an attempt at answering. So perhaps raising a mod flag with due explanation is better. Or waiting until it scores below zero and then 20k-del it
 
Yes, an NAA flag has in fact been declined on that in 2017.
 
although I did see moderators going one step further and deleting NAA when there's ample indication in comments that it is not, in fact, an answer
 
And another one disputed in 2015, with the handling moderator not deleting the answer.
 
Mods can dispute NAA flags?
 
7:16 AM
I suspect it might have been a link-only answer with the answer behind the link, but in any case, the link is dead, and the contents of the answer are in no way useful, as they simply state a reason why one might want to do this, with no indication of how. I deleted it. I believe most moderators would accept a custom flag that says more or less what this chat message says, and requests that the answer be deleted.
@JeanneDark Here's the mod view of the timeline: i.stack.imgur.com/qkK12.png
 
Thanks!
 
Visited 1111 days, what a nice number
 
 
1 hour later…
8:36 AM
argh... missed the self-vandalism edit
@RO can this be binned?
seems the OP keeps insisting self-vandalising...
 
@Cristik → 1 message moved to SOCVR /dev/null, by request
 
9:15 AM
 
9:35 AM
Answers to flag as NAA or VLQ are non-answers (no attempt at all), link-only answers (no content answering the question) and answers not in English. I wonder if it wouldn't make flagging easier and more intuitive to get rid of the VLQ flag and have 3 non-red answer flags: NAA, link-only answer and not in English. The last two could have the same characteristics as VLQ, maybe without some auto-downvotes. The flag descriptions could also be made clearer then.
 
Definitely the auto-downvotes should go, at least when validated by an edit.
Not sure if we need 3 flags, though I do like the idea of keeping a dismissed-on-edit flag
I'd include non-English in NAA or...I dunno, arguably that should be dismissed on edit.
And then maybe the link-only answer could have an auto-comment.
Also, while we're dreaming, maybe some number of NAA flags should auto-delete a post. I saw one with nine on it recently. That's just a waste of flagger time...
pretty sure I could click through the posts with six NAAs and delete them all without reading, and I'd never mishandle a flag (unless the post had been edited).
 
I thought that with these 2 more specialized flags, you could not only have better auto-comments but also a clear description for each flag. It seems that there is often uncertainty about link-only answers, but also non-English content, especially if these are clearly attempts at answering the question and have a code block but just some short description in a different language.
 
9:51 AM
I think it would be far more efficient to flag answers that are not NAA, VLQ, non-English and just plain wrong. Without such flags (or 'X' upvotes?), all other answers are fed to the Roomba.
 
Thanks Ryan
 
@JeanneDark Hmmm, good point. That actually suggests a broader idea: maybe the NAA flag could be a submenu with reasons. You have to pick one. "Me too", "comment", etc. - it'd stop people flagging answers NAA because they're wrong.
 
@RyanM Link-only and non-English are kind of the edge cases and one could argue that they are often attempts at answering the question, just not according to the SO definition. And then the NAA flag-description could also be improved to saying that it's not for wrong answers. Maybe easier to implement than a submenu.
 
OTOH, there's been discussion for years that the VLQ and NAA flags on answers should be merged, since both boil down to "this should be deleted"
 
The second sentence of "This was posted as an answer, but it does not attempt to answer the question. It should possibly be an edit, a comment, another question, or deleted altogether." may be modified or even dropped entirely.
 
10:01 AM
[del-pls]
 
@JeanneDark all of those options ultimately result in the answer being deleted. Perhaps it's also copied to a comment, but the answer's gone nonetheless
@SunderamDubey I presume you missed most of the content here?
 
@Adriaan I know about that discussion, I just got the idea to divide VLQ into two more sensible flags based on the flag-worthy answers typically encountered
 
@Adriaan I am not able to format like you format.
I think
 
@SunderamDubey No one gave you the link to the FAQ yet?
 
@SunderamDubey either use the userscript, or post at least [tag:del-pls] <reason> [url]. Posting only "[del-pls]", not even tag-formatted, doesn't tell us anything
 
10:05 AM
@JeanneDark thanks :)
 
@SunderamDubey Don't you want to see it closed first?
 
@JeanneDark what mean?
 
@SunderamDubey There is not a single close vote on it. Moreover, why would it need to be deleted now?
 
@VLAZ It needs details or clarity, as I don't have 3k rep. so I can't tell about close votes.
 
@blackgreen Although (as tripleee says), the gravatar is derived only from your email, the fact that that is "salted" before being used to generate the image will/may mean that there will be minor, random variations between the images for multiple accounts with the same email address. But, in my experience, those visible differences are very minor and the multiple gravatars are readily recognizable as being based on the same input data.
 
10:08 AM
@SunderamDubey that's a close reason, not one for deletion. Please do not ask for deletion on non-closed posts. Besides, that will roomba pretty fine in 10 days. Given there's nothing strange going on, I for one would rather save my delete votes.
 
@SunderamDubey A question has to be closed before it can be deleted. You asked for deletion here.
 
@VLAZ sorry, I am going to read whole FAQ, I think I missed the tag, should use tag:cv-pls.
@Adriaan yes, I understood.
 
10:27 AM
> Please don't treat closing questions as a game, as if you get extra credit for closing a question for no reason.
... if only we did get that credit. :-)
 
@AdrianMole Uh, we don't?
I may have to call off some purchases I got on credit for the wrong reasons.
 
I wouldn't know ... can't say that I've ever closed a question for no reason.
... but I've definitely closed for the "wrong reason". :-) Just yesterday, an expert pointed out that my dupe target was wrong and edited to the right one.
... or maybe that's the right reason but incorrect detail.
 
I don't like how dupe closure is lumped with other close reasons. I can look at and determine whether a question is fit for the site even if I'm not familiar with the technology. But it can still be a duplicate that I never even would suspect.
 
1 message moved to SOCVR /dev/null (invalid request)
 
@RyanM I requested by mistake.
 
10:37 AM
@VLAZ That's also one of my concerns when reviewing First Questions. Are reviewers expected to be sufficiently expert to spot duplicates? If so, that queue would be even bigger than it currently is ... totally unmanageable, in fact.
 
10:53 AM
 
Smokey now sees "PHP" as a bad keyword? Good bot. xD
 
@StephenOstermiller confusing JavaScript and JScript is something I deal with on this site every day. the OP is trying to do something with JScript in an HTA (which uses the MSHTML engine). The duplicate you suggested is not relevant.
 
@AdrianMole I'm afraid the one which triggered was "alphamax" (which was probably one of the brands peddled by the Indian pharma spam gang when they were active)
 
11:30 AM
 
12:08 PM
@AdrianMole wait... closing questions isn't a game? Uh oh.
 
Life is a game. Earning reputation points is a game. But closing questions ... that's serious business.
6
 
12:44 PM
Talking about closing questions and games ... I just received an email from Stack telling me that my question has been closed. One I posted yesterday on Meta.SE, which was closed yesterday. Anyone else get emails about their Qs being closed?
 
@AdrianMole go to your profile -> edit settings -> edit email settings, under Your Communities what is inbox set to?
 
@NathanOliver Aha. It's set to "Daily" - which makes sense, I guess.
 
Yep, that should be toe cause
 
1:10 PM
@bad_coder What is VLQ about this? It is a clear question with a clear answer (that someone has provided).
 
@TylerH I didn't look for a dup (although I came across a lot of them in search) but answers with inputs aren't usually very good. So it doesn't add much to the repository.
@TylerH with the current score that Q&A also isn't going anywhere, and since I came across it I thought it was better to clean it up.
 
If you think a question is a duplicate and/or provides no value, then that is one thing, but 'VLQ' means something else. And questions do not need to 'go anywhere'; not sure what you mean by that exactly.
@JeanneDark Guests can vote but their votes are not counted in terms of the score of a post. They are still counted for the public data dump that occurs weekly.
Erm, actually I am thinking of registered users who don't have the privilege yet, sorry.
 
1:26 PM
@TylerH ok, I should have posted the request Nth dup "little added value" - I didn't because it wasn't closed as dup.
 
@bad_coder You can always include a link to a canonical in the close request, or leave a comment there and delete it after posting (once posted, the link should show up on the linked posts list on the right even after the comment is deleted)
 
MMhh, "not going anywhere" the way I was working this week (in burnination) looking for dup targets there were so many "not much added value" Qs that deleting seemed like the right choice to unpollute search results.
 
@TylerH The discussion was about unregistered, possible sockpuppets and if that alone was reason enough for a flag. Even if unregistered users have the necessary rep, they cannot up- or downvote (that's btw. also why they can't delete their own posts).
 
"low-value" that's the shorthand I was missing! But you're right, leaving a link in the comments makes the case for deletion much clearer - that was a oversight on my part.
Back to work o/
 
1:39 PM
@blackgreen You should be aware that there are other ways to have the same gravatar. By far, the most common way for users to have the same gravatar is that the default gravatar is being used (i.e. without a hash value), so check for that before making any assumptions. It's also possible for the same gravatar to be generated from more than one hash value (i.e. where the information used to generate the hash is different). The amount of entropy available within the gravatar generation algorithm is substantially below the amount of entropy represented by the hash (and the hash algorithm itself is know to have collisions, but that's less likely). Thus, there inherently will be collisions when converting from a hash into a gravatar. While uncommon, I have seen this happen.
 
2:03 PM
 
2:58 PM
Six-Star programming, anyone?
 
Meh, I'd give it a 3/6 stars.
 
err
if the answer is in another castle, the only way to provide it here is as a comment, or by creating an answer that references said external answer and provides the answer here
 
@TylerH @JimG. Per rule #18 (socvr.org/faq#GEfM-no-mod-ping), please do not ping moderators here for something that is appropriately handled via mod flag.
 
3:28 PM
ahhh the preview is missing when I edit posts now
what an awful bug
 
Preview only available for Collectives members.
More seriously - it shows up for me. Do you have it disabled by any chance?
 
does the show preview button work?
 
OMFG, the "hide preview" option is sticky. I never knew that. You probably clicked it by accident. There is a "show preview" at the bottom of the edited post
 
@VLAZ I certainly would not ever click such a thing
does such an option exist?
@VLAZ wtf is that option
where did it come from
 
there's always been a show/hide preview button
below the editing box
 
3:38 PM
It's here. I've no clue where it came from. I'm using a userscript that makes editing posts into a 3-panel thing.
I had to disable it to see that.
Also, I don't even know where that option is saved. I don't see it in local storage, not in session storage, not as a cookie.
 
... stupid "I'm a mod everywhere and don't know how stuff works for non-mods" question... in the LQA queue, if I click delete and then submit... does that open a modal or just finish teh review?
(for 10 k users)
 
@KevinB impossibru
I have never seen that before somehow
 
it's light grey text on a white background
i can test it,
if i can find one worht deleting
 
@Catija it pops up a modal
i.stack.imgur.com/D43K6.png <-- for a 2014 answer
i.stack.imgur.com/tLrbq.png <-- for a more recent answer
 
Thanks. ... maybe it's just me but it feels really scary to have a "submit" button and not know what's going to happen?
@TylerH Weird. I wonder why it's different.
 
3:42 PM
eh
 
I also feel like I've asked about this in here before.
 
Probably the same reasons the options are different for flagging newer content vs older content
 
wdym not knowing what will happen though
 
if it's more recent, OP is probably still around and can have stuff done
 
if you choose delete, and click submit, presumably you'd want it deleted yes?
 
3:43 PM
@Catija I don't get the 'not know what's going to happen' vibe. I selected "delete" option and click "submit"... I would expect it to delete it.
 
lol
 
Right. But imagine you're me and you don't actually want to delete it, you just want to know what happens when you hit "submit" because you think there might be a modal but you're not certain.
Having a way to know that there's one more step before the deletion vote actually does something is... useful.
 
Looking at the blurb from the 2014 one, I see this paragraph is at the bottom
> This answer has been on the site for quite a while now; it probably won't benefit from commentary. If you think it could be fixed, go back and leave a comment explaining the problem.
So that is exactly why the list of options is different
 
maybe the additional step shouldn't exist
 
3:45 PM
@Catija Well, that's why it's good to have test accounts :-)
or documentation...
as a mod though there's also the tried and true "if you delete it, just undelete it again..." option. Less palatable and might cause issues but if you're a moderator you also ought to be able to unilaterally decide if it ought to be deleted or not anyway
 
Yeah, well... we used to put the breadcrumbs on everything and it was much more clear (for me, anyway)... so "Submit..." instead of "Submit".
Undeleting doesn't put it back in review.
 
@Catija Yeah, but see my 'you're a mod' statement.
You are empowered to unilaterally delete/undelete content
 
... I'm not a programmer, though.
 
the old Apple convention was to have "..." at the end of an action in e.g. a menu (or on a button, I guess?) if merely selecting it does not yet complete it
 
I don't know what's an answer and what's not.
 
3:47 PM
Well, true, you might be a special case :-)
But whether an answer is an answer is not really a programmign matter I don't think, at least in the way SO defines it
At least, 99% of the time, probably, I can tell if an answer is link-only, in the wrong language, a 'thanks' post, etc.
even without knowing the language the post is using
Re "submit...", since it's a button, an ellipsis would be bad IMHO. I think it is possibly a generational thing but a lot of older people at my workplace sign off every message with an ellipsis and younger generations read ellipses as dramatic emphasis, like the person is saying one thing but really meaning something else/underhanded, and it causes a surprising amount of grief
I would recommend a tooltip instead
because that is explicit and doesn't require users to guess what the button does or what a "..." means
Like, I'll send an email or chat message saying "I completed this request; let me know if there is anything else I can assist with" and they'll reply with "OK...". If I read that reply I'm thinking "What do you mean "OK..."? Did I not address the issue? Did I miss something? Are you unsatisfied with what I did?!"
 
...
 
In short, for cross-generational UX, I recommend not using ellipses unless you are writing a novel or intending to show a dramatic pause for emphasis
 
@TylerH ... so, what you're saying is that the ellipsis indicates there's more that's not been said... which is... exactly what the UI would be saying. :P
Also, I took one of those online personality quizzes once that was "What punctuation mark are you" and I got Ellipsis - I use them everywhere. :P
 
@Catija importantly, not just 'there's more to be said', but specifically 'there's more to be said and it's bad'
(and we are gonna make you guess what it is)
show a tooltip saying "Move to the next item or choose a deletion reason" or something after hovering for 1+ seconds and you avoid all the problems
 
i almost exclusively use it for negative reasons
 
3:58 PM
^
 
@TylerH Except on touchscreen, of course
 
like, ... <insert something everyone should already know>
 
@VLAZ if the only contents of the button are "..." then yes it can imply "this is a menu" but I prefer hamburger menu over that
and it wouldn't make sense for a submit button anyway in mobile/touchscreen
 
or on it's own, as an indication that something really dumb was just said
 
I mean that tooltips/hover is not much of a thing on touchscreens
 
3:59 PM
@VLAZ ah, well yes, a mobile design is needed for mobile
 
It would fit right in with the rest of the design around here!
 
responsive webdesign is great but when you have rich, complex interaction you really sort of need a dedicated mobile/touch design
unfortunately, the mobile app is deprecated...
 
@Catija I agree that "Submit" feels very final and it's not clear when that's going to pop up a modal and when it is not. In suggested edits, for example "Approve" does not but "Reject" produces a list of reasons. "Looks OK" does not and "Recommend deletion" or "Delete" does in LQA. etc. Most queues have some options which don't have a follow up action and some that do and there's no distinction before doing some reviews.
 
well, the distinction is if you're gonna do something that harms content, the system wants you to explain yourself
 
Ultimately I think it's a minor concern even if it is surprising because you learn what it does after one action... and then you know.
 
4:02 PM
@cocomac Did Zoe forget to log into her account? :P
2
 
maybe if we had a tutorial for each type of review that showed users how to handle review items and what each action does (a tutorial that could be re-taken at will by users), that would help alleviate that issue @Catija
 
@cocomac You sure that's not just a plagiarism on the other answer?
 
Personally I'd prefer the sub reasons to be at the top level and have one-click submit everywhere.
 
@GeneralGrievance Actually, it might be a legitimate answer
 
@HenryEcker that would also be nice
:54758643 well the question mentions rick rolling, and the answer from 2020 also shows the same link. I think you're right, but for different reasons: someone created an account named Guest just to post a copy of an answer that links to a rick roll URL
that seems like too much effort to ignorantly repeat an existing answer
 
4:06 PM
@GeneralGrievance ****, I misread it it is just plagiarism. I read the other answer wrong, sorry. You are right.
 
@HenryEcker Yeah... that's the issue - the button content is fixed on page-load, so sometimes it'll open a new option and sometimes it won't. This was less of an issue previously because the actions were the buttons instead of being radio buttons followed by "submit".
 
Ah, plagiarism's worse than just rickrolling anyway. There's worse trolls out there.
 
Can you make button content change depending on a radio button option? For example, if there's no next step, just have it say "Submit" but if it's got a next step, have it say "Next" or something?
 
yes
 
@Catija In HTML/JS? Yes. But on SO? Not sure if there are changeable buttons.
 
4:09 PM
Would it have to be built into stacks or something?
 
pretty sure there's examples of that within SO's UI already
 
As in, it should be pretty easy. I'm just not sure if the functionality is there or not.
 
@Catija That would make it more clear at least wrt what actions have follow up prompts. My problem is that the follow up modal is full of the valid reasons to choose the action. It's odd to me that you choose delete then see what are the correct reasons to do so.
 
I know we have places where the button is greyed out or not depending on whether an option is selected or not, so I guess changing the text isn't much different?
 
It's not as big of a deal to people who already know how to review. But to someone learning I feel the workflow is backwards
 
4:10 PM
@Catija I don't know how Stacks is designed but it would use JavaScript, so if Stacks includes JavaScript, that's probably where it would go
 
Was I pinged in this room?
 
@Dharman Yes, a user pinged you earlier about a deleted answer
 
@Dharman Yeah. But it was moved to /dev/null. (TylerH handled it)
 
I binned it per rule #18
 
For example, when you toggle between "Promotional" being on and off in your email settings page, it fades the next section in and out. That functionality is logically no different than altering a button
 
Sheesh, breaking the rules is pricey
 
I wish I got $18 per rule infraction...
 
Depends on the rule, obviously.
 
Sorry Dharman, I thought in my internal monologue "I wonder if this is a sockpuppet..." that must have summoned you here.
 
@IanCampbell Just do like the rest of us and don't think.
 
4:12 PM
@HenryEcker People new to a review queue are supposed to see some amount of guidance on their first time accessing the queue. Unfortunately, that modal was written in our era of positivity where we don't even mention delete or recommend deletion. :/
 
I remember when I first started reviewing. I was always worried Sam was going to pop up and ban me for the first slip up.
 
Oh, wait, I was looking at first answers. LQP does actually mention deletion and it links to the help center - stackoverflow.com/help/review-low-quality
 
@Catija if you are looking for some code, Stack Overflow has a plethora of examples: google.com/… :-)
 
har har har
 
I mean, I'm serious--all of those results look like they show how it would be done... just didn't know if you were interested in seeing the actual code or if you planned to leave that to a dev.
 
4:17 PM
well, it's probably more a case of.. is this functionality SO's ecosystem already has built-in, or would it be a one-off dev adventure
to which i'd say, probably the latter
 
@Catija Yeah. The popup in LQA does also mention it. But still for me showing the options at top level (with better styles) is much more helpful. It's less clicks to complete the review. All actions are submit and complete. And I can easily categorise what I'm looking at into one of those reasons.
 
but it's not complicated
 
@TylerH Ah. I was laughing mostly because I'm guessing the devs already know, but I'm never quite sure what's possible and what's easy. :)
 
What if it was like the Close UI? Like clicking "delete" changes the panel content to the new reasons rather than opening a separate modal?
 
in fact, that button already has some relevant functionality to what you're asking for
Until you select an option, it's disabled. whatever event enables it, is likely the same one you'd use to change it's text based on which one is selected
that code is probably on the list of code that needs to be replaced
tis jquery
 
4:24 PM
I thought jquery was the answer to everything?
 
No that's 42
 
@HenryEcker You do realize 42 is a jQuery plugin, right?
 
@Adriaan @Machavity Could this reopen-pls be binned please? It's presumably a typo, since Adriaan voted to close it, and hasn't voted to reopen it.
 
@Catija Ah, well I figured you were asking here because they didn't (or weren't available for some reason). Hopefully they do know how to do that, or know how to search SO for the answer on their own :-P
 
4:32 PM
Ah, no - I was here because I was trying to do something about this request from @HenryEcker - so we're going to figure out better handling of that and, in the process I was trying to see what happens when you click "delete" and then submit... so I came here to ask. :P
Do y'all feel like some sort of notification that your vote is being changed from a recommend deletion to deletion is valuable? I may be asking the wrong people because I'm guessing y'all don't... but... I figured I'd check.
 
i'm under the expectation that any time i "recommend" deletion i'm actually casting a delete vote
 
@Catija a notification in mid-review? E.g. the scenario Henry describes in his comment there?
 
given i have the reputation to do so
 
I don't really use the LQA review queue so I'm not familiar with it in particular but I would expect once I've cast a vote, it's that kind of vote forever. E.g. a 'recommend deletion' vote never automatically changes to a real delete vote if what I cast at the time was 'recommend deletion'. Is that correct?
 
Personally a move from recommend deletion to deletion is something I want to know about. I like to keep a few delete votes on hand to use outside of queue.
 
4:35 PM
Ah, that's valid - since there's a limit on delete votes.
 
Right, but there's no limit on Recommend deletion (outside of the number of daily reviews) so I don't care too much if delete gets moved to recommend deletion
 
@TylerH As far as I'm aware, if you recommend deletion, it's totally separate and we don't change them between each other.
 
@HenryEcker hi.
 
Hello?
 
🚽
 
4:44 PM
?
 
Closing socvr.org seems tricky.
 
I think something's wrong with your request
 
@Dharman by mistake I shared socvr.org, as I am looking for the formating.
 
you have two minutes to edit it
 
4:47 PM
@SunderamDubey I don't think the close reason makes sense, though; what typo?
 
@tripleee you can also consider not reproductible, and yet haven't been answered by someone
and have downvotes.
 
@SunderamDubey What part is not reproducible? It doesn't appear to be a debugging question. It looks like it's asking what the second parameter of cv2.imdecode means.
 
I don't think it's hard to understand what they are asking, but I'm not convinced that it's worth the effort; they need a link to the CV2 doco
 
@HenryEcker The question was asked 15 days ago on 1 June, and in 15 days, someone not tried to answer it, that means the question is not liked by community, so we may consider it as not reproductible and need to close I think.
 
@SunderamDubey I'm sorry but "not liked by community" is not a close reason. 15 days is also not a long time for a question to go unanswered. Many go unanswered for years.
 
4:52 PM
@HenryEcker anyway, but thanks for explaning.
 
turns out it's not entirely trivial; the Python opencv projcet defers to the OpenCV documentation, which documents the native (C++?) functions, where imdecode defers to ...somewhere else. It's not well presented, but seems like a valid question as such
 
@SunderamDubey That's not what not reproducible means. It means that given the code presented, when you run it yourself you don't get the results/error as provided in the question. Therefore the Q is unanswerable.
2
We don't close questions because they accrued a number of downvotes.
 
(the roomba does, eventually, but there does not seem to be any reason to expedite that)
 
@Dharman thanks I understood, I think I shared second question right, which closed, I'll share those kinds of questions.
 
Also, we don't close questions because they are not answered. It may literally take years for an answer to show up but if the question is on-topic and upvoted, it can wait for that.
The roomba cleans up the rest of the questions, as tripleee mentioned
 
5:01 PM
@tripleee Does that roomba you shared for me to read?
 
5:31 PM
@Catija Yes, the loss of indicators that there's another level of interaction is ... ... ... poor (sorry, I had to not use the first several descriptions I thought of). Unfortunately, SE has changed their UI in multiple places to remove those indicators. In general, it causes significant confusion, even for people that already know how the UI works, let alone for people who are just starting.
 
@Catija OK, so you are talking just about live changes when someone opens a review item and the button shows "recommend deletion" and someone else downvotes it making the post eligible for true deletion, you are asking if the button should update live and somehow alert the user to the fact that clicking that button will now do an actual delete vote?
If so, I think that would be a great feature to have
 
@TylerH Just to clarify the current behaviour is that submitting a view if the option has changed in the meantime is an error message. You have to refresh the page (which pulls down the new options) then you can submit the review. There isn't a point currently where you think you're submitting a recommend deletion and it actually taking a delete vote.
But I certainly agree that a live update without a page refresh would be an awesome feature
 
5:48 PM
@HenryEcker oh it errors out?
that's not great, but I guess it's arguably better than it sending the 'wrong' action
 
Yeah "An error occurred when reviewing this item. Please try again."
The details at outlined in my request on MSE that Catija had linked earlier
 
6:20 PM
 
Ask one of these days I'm going to quit forgetting the - at the end
 
Answer
 
@SunderamDubey not sure what you are asking, but if you mean "do people often share links to further information and expect or demand you to not click the link", I think the answer to that is "no"
FWIW the cv2 question ended up being closed as unclear, which I don't agree with, but don't particularly strive to contest
 
7:38 PM
@GertArnold Agreed, and I also made the link look nicer.
 
7:57 PM
Great, looks better.
 
8:08 PM
@TylerH From talking with the devs, because a 10k user can vote to delete instead of recommending deletion, trying to recommend deletion when the post is now eligible for delete votes causes an error. It's unlikely we'll be able to update the text on the buttons on the fly like that but we could at minimum put up a confirmation box (instead of the error) that says "This post is now eligible for a delete vote instead of recommending deletion. Click “OK" to continue."...
and give the reviewer the option to continue or cancel.
@HenryEcker ^^
 
less elegant but still certainly an improvement
 
@Catija Awesome, sounds like a great (relatively easy) fix for this particular problem. Much less confusing than the current error message and way better than a page refresh. Thank you for looking into it :)
Are they going to do something similar for the other direction? e.g. a post goes from being eligible for deletion to not via an errant upvote or some similar?
 
I'll leave a comment on the card to indicate we may need to make this bi-directional. :)
 
Awesome. Looking forward to something that will probably never again happen to me :) But hopefully it benefits other similarly confused reviewers in future.
 
@Catija This is generally better. Such a notice could just be shown when the error occurs. If the button text changes, then you have multiple race conditions. You still have to handle error cases where the state has changed in the backend and there's an error when the request gets sent between the backend state changing and the notice of the need to change the UI getting to the user's browser (i.e. the UI wasn't updated, yet), and/or the UI is updated with less time than the human can react to it (i.e. they think they are clicking one thing, but the text has changed, so they are actually clicking something else), etc.
 
8:36 PM
I think it's insane that I can vote for needs debugging details, those would be provided before the question is closed, and now I'm unable to vote for a duplicate.
 
yes this is a pet peeve of mine
some times I'm 85% sure the question is a dupe but I can't be absolutely certain because there's no MCVE in sight, so I have to either hold off the close vote altogether in order to hammer later, or cast the non-binding CV and move on
 
A few more questions should be hitting the close vote queue shortly. Only 37 open questions left.
 
@blackgreen Same. I'm more often holding the vote just in case OP decides to grace us with an actual MCVE. But if 5-15 minutes have passed without OP having such an intention, I just cast a "regular" CV. But there is no win-win situation. If I vote for something else and question is update to make it clear it's a dupe - I cannot vote for a dupe. If I vote for a dupe but it's not actually correct, that's probably worse.
 
meh
you don't have to be the hero, someone else can dupe hammer it
 
8:47 PM
hm, it depends on the tag
 
Would someone mind flagging or otherwise handling this comment? I'm out of comment flags
 
@HenryEcker Got it.
 
Thanks. I didn't want that to be left up any longer than it had to
 
@KevinB It's not just dupe hammers, though. Some times there is no MCVE and when it's provided, it turns out there was just a typo. Or a broad question might be narrowed to a general computing issue. Not being able to change the close vote before the closure happens is just bad. And yes, I'm aware that's because "close votes don't matter" mentality where closing the question is more important than why it's closed but I only agree with that when multiple close reasons apply.
Closing for a blatantly wrong reason doesn't really serve anything, other than sweeping the question under the rug.
 
9:09 PM
Sure, however, that's more a flaw with the slow process of closing. If a question changes during the process of closure, there's bound to be misses. The solution to that shouldn't be avoiding closure.
 
@VLAZ counter productive even. vocal users will complain in meta when closure doesn't make sense to them. even if they don't complain, they'll walk away very confused about topicality rules and be none the wiser about how to ask good questions
 
@KevinB Then maybe the system shouldn't make closure the wrong choice ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I'd be willing to more frequently VTC immediately, if I could then swap my vote. Right now, I often don't, if I'm not quite sure it won't get closed soon.
 
i don't think about it
vote, move on
go next
 
@VLAZ well, y'know, just changing your CV reason in general is a direly needed feature
I think maybe there's a chance Shog was right that it would have likely been abused in the early days (which is the reason why it was not implemented), but these days I think there are enough users (and moderators) voting and checking others' work that it is a negligible problem if that
 
9:26 PM
@Dharman would you consider taking care of the last 5 php Qs in the comma burnination?
 
I'm out of CV for the day or I'd get them
 
Also out of CVs but I found a lot of php dups without ever having programmed in the language :P
 
@TylerH It seems that the abuse would primarily be if the timestamp of when the vote was originally placed was updated to the time that the reason was changed. Basically, the issue is that the easy implementation of just replacing the existing close-vote either ends up with loosing the history that the reason for the vote was changed (i.e. updating the initial CV record, or new record with old timestamp), or a record indicating a new timestamp for the vote (i.e. just replace the CV record with the new vote). Other implementations are better, but require the changes to be accounted for in multiple areas of the site and/or backend processing.
 
What is this I see, Python Q without tag that had eluded me...
 
9:51 PM
@Makyen Yes, naturally such a feature would need to record the vote history in a new table
at the very least for employees, but probably also for moderators
 
I think it'd be better if CVs were just fully public and generated their own event in the timeline.
Then you could just change your vote at any time, generating a new event in the timeline
 
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