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00:00
@AdrianMole never know which option to choose when these types of questions show up
When in doubt, pick one of the non-migrate options. We don't want to saddle another site with an off-topic question, and the user can always re-ask on the correct site.
I'm hoping we will be moving towards having a generally off-topic non-migrating reason in the near future... assuming we can agree on the wording and such.
@Juraj @RyanM Could this be binned please? The older post was closed instead. Juraj confirmed.
@cigien → 1 message moved to SOCVR /dev/null (question duped other way)
00:10
@RyanM Thanks. Did that need to be dupe-closed specifically?
@cigien In retrospect, that was probably a bad idea, since it won't Roomba...well, I can just delete it now, since it's an exact self-dupe.
I had intended to make it clear that it was a self-dupe in case anyone tried to fix or reopen it.
Thanks. Also, how is there a comment by me on the older post asking if it's a dupe? I could have sworn I voted to close as unclear. (Comment is gone now).
@cigien Vote timeline says you voted to close as Duplicate.
Hmm, my memory failed me then :( Thanks for checking.
Why it didn't auto-delete your comment after I closed it with the same target is also a mystery...I don't quite understand the logic behind the auto-deletion of those comments. (I deleted it manually)
np!
 
2 hours later…
01:47
Related to this meta question - does anyone know 1) if editing currently fails a known-good audit? and 2) if this behavior was different a couple years ago?
I vaguely recall some meta post about that, but I can't find it.
Where's Jeanne Dark when you need a random meta post found...
@RyanM My understanding is that editing known good audits shouldn't cause failure since the fix in Shog's answer from 2013.
I don't know it that would apply to a known bad audit
And if you have tags filtered the audit system will add one of your tags to the audit. Whether a know good audit or known bad.
Which would be confusing if editing passed known good, but failed known bad audits...
Yeah, editing any post in the Close Votes queue is definitely an auto-pass based on my (extensive, if I do say so myself...) experience in that queue. I can't personally speak to any of the other queues (other than Suggested Edits, which doesn't have known-good audits).
02:09
@RyanM Editing definitely will pass known good in FQQ stackoverflow.com/review/first-questions/31465726 and a known bad in FQQ stackoverflow.com/review/first-questions/31456879.
02:30
On second thought, should this (now deleted) answer have been red-flagged?
03:10
@HenryEcker Thanks!
03:30
@FelixSFD I see. Makes sense.
03:41
Well, offer still stands, at least for now: if you need any help with hosting or anything, let me know!
04:25
@RyanM np. Glad to help :)
 
1 hour later…
06:44
@Adriaan way ahead of you
something something thurboroomba
actually on closer examination, I was 5 seconds behind you. rats.
I shall endeavor to do better.
this answer has a lot of images of code, but I'm unsure whether that's a problem, given it's a point-and-click software that might render that code by default.
would you say that it is generally correct to mark "what does X and Y mean" as duplicate of "what's the difference between X and Y"?
@blackgreen Yes, I think I would say that is true in general.
06:49
assuming that explaining the difference between two things also carries information about what those two things are
@Adriaan Also, no one would really be served by deleting that answer.
@CodyGray No, but a comment of mine to add the code as text rather than images might be helpful nonetheless?
We decided that noisy comments were helpful, did we? I guess I was absent that day. Sure, go ahead.
@CodyGray for good measure, I'm going to edit a couple details into the original to make the dupe obviously a dupe, and hammer
07:14
@StephenOstermiller is this better suited for Webmasters, or totally off-topic (for SO I'd say no MCVE at least)
 
1 hour later…
09:36
@Adriaan It needs details to be able to answer the question. That detail would determine where it would be appropriate. If it is a regex problem, it could probably stay here. Otherwise it might be more appropriate for Webmasters or Server Fault depending on how specific the configuration is to the site itself or to the server in general.
10:29
@Adriaan not sure your edit here was justified; OP explicitly asks for a plugin in the title (have VTC'ed as "resource request"):stackoverflow.com/questions/42264671/…
so, either you'll have to edit the title, too, or revert the edit?
@desertnaut I missed the title, edited that as well, thanks. There's no need to VTC IMO, as the tool rec could simply be edited to an "how to" question
@Adriaan unfortunately, it is now closed as such :(
@Adriaan That title is horrible.
"How can I WooCommerce product page"? "How can I keyword keyword keyword"
10:45
also, the OP might really want a plugin
@Cristik judging from the initial question, I do think that OP wanted a plugin indeed
10:56
@Adriaan Reopened, since I was the only close voter and the reasoning I had for closing it is no longer present. Stephen's objection may be valid, of course, and it may be that it should be re-closed.
Thanks for the heads-up!
11:32
@Braiam I shouldn't edit in a hurry when leaving for lunch. THanks, fixed it now
@Cristik sure, but "Use this plugin" is a valid answer to a "How to" question, whereas "Which plugin can I use" is not a valid question
@Adriaan thing is, do we want to encourage "use this plugin" (link-only) answers?
@desertnaut There's a meta post about this somewhere. Bare link posts are treated as any link-only answer, i.e. deleted. However, showing how you can use that plugin to accomplish the desired goal is allowed
13:36
@Machavity I thought you knew everything now you're a mod.
2
@Catija Well, I did until I met Cody. Now I know nothing. Nothing!
:D
Considering how full the SE queue is all the time, burning through it isn't a bad idea. Plus, as a mod, if you see people going a bit overboard, you can also suspend them from suggesting edits and give them some advice about how to edit more effectively.
@Machavity No, it isn't. Adding the explicit std:: namespace prefixes to code is something that can (and is often) done in answers. Also, the edit should have addressed the issues in the "Code runs very long." sentence.
Adding std:: before common STL items/functions is bit like adding Cody:: before snarky remarks.
Heh
Edit rejected. Thanks
@AdrianMole I don't follow. I personally add std:: to code in questions, unless the missing std:: is potentially relevant to the question. Adding std:: doesn't change the intent of the question in those cases.
13:48
Hmm. I just assume there's an (implied) using namespace std; in the OP's code.
... there nearly always is.
@Machavity That Q validates me again that more tags isn't moar better. Asker got a good answer from a seasoned user.
{big Belgian biscuits}
@Braiam People like that answerer follow the C++ tag, so it was found quickly. But the added tags make it easier to find such a question in searches.
@AdrianMole Sure, but that's not relevant to the OP's question. I see no harm in cleaning up OP's code, so long as it doesn't change the intent of the question. I'm not saying the suggested edit should have been approved, or not, I'm just referring to the adding of the std::, as it's something I do myself.
I would add those is any answer I posted, possibly adding a link to the canonical about not using using namepsace std;.
@AdrianMole I still have yet to see a practical example where someone do that and was using an actual search engine, not the thing that SE uses.
Tag searching is only useful if you know already what you are looking for.
Which in this case it served that purpose for the answerer: question it would know the answer to.
Is this an answer? IMO, it is a comment although accepted. There is other good answer from other user.
@AdrianMole I find that to be a little noisy, given how frequently OPs use using namespace std. I only add that link when it's relevant to the OP's question, in which case it's probably a duplicate.
@AmitJoshi Yeah, it looks like a comment and I've made it such. Probably accepted because it was the only answer initially
@AmitJoshi What answer :waves hands:
@cigien But, then, where do you draw the line on adding 'improvements' to OP's code in the question? Would you change int len = strlen(str); to size_t len = strlen(len);?
... if it didn't otherwise matter in the specific context of the question.
14:19
@Machavity how happy are we with answers that decode proprietary encrypted data? Or is it one of those cases where the company in question has to formally request SE, the company, to take it down?
@Adriaan The community doesn't do anything. The company can issue a DMCA request
@AdrianMole I wouldn't bother in that example, but I wouldn't object to such an edit either. So long as the improvements to the code don't change the intent (which requires an SME to judge, of course), I''m fine with it.
@Adriaan Yeah, we don't handle requests about copyright, legal, etc. If it's proprietary, there's the legal page
To put it a different way, we're the referees on the field. We enforce the rules of the game. A referee doesn't decide if a player has broken the law and needs to go to jail, etc.
@cigien Well, from this Meta answer, I would cite the "Change code conventions" bullet-point (as well as the "Ignore improvements ... outside").
@AdrianMole I'm not sure what you mean by the "ignore improvements ... outside" bit. I'm assuming that other things are fixed as well. As to the code conventions, it's not about the convention, it's that the code simply won't compile without std::. If a question already has using namespace std;, I wouldn't remove it, but if it's missing that, then either I can add using namespace std;, or prefix std:: everywhere to make a MRE, and if there's a choice, I'm definitely going for the latter.
Also, to clarify, I'm talking about "edits", and not "suggested edits", since the guidance is quite different for those.
14:34
@tripleee code has been edited in, is that an MCVE?
I guess it boils down to preference. But I just don't like the idea of improving code in questions (other than formatting/readability) - that's what answers are for, IMHO.
@AdrianMole Yeah, that's reasonable. I feel differently about it. Most code in questions has several issues with it, and usually, only one of them is relevant to the question. I dislike having to dig through answers that are giving (well intentioned) advice to the OP that has nothing to do with the issue I'm interested in resolving.
@AdrianMole I would edit questions if the asker obviously typoed the code, and the problem they are asking about isn't relevant to that mistake
Or what cigien said...
14:54
I put some [term] questions in the queue if anyone has spare votes.
@Catija sick burn :-D
@tripleee OP has edited their post since; can you check to see if it's still a duplicate or typo issue?
@EJoshuaS-StandwithUkraine thanks
@Braiam Just FYI, this question, on which you were a close-voter, has been discussed on Meta. Just so that you know why Cody hits you with a heavy object.
@AdrianMole If you see the top comment, you will see that I participated in the discussion.
And Cody argument and mine aren't orthogonal.
15:10
Missed that comment. Still, ...
... I think it is programming-related.
Well, you could argue that on another meta q
everything is programming related if you squint hard enough
4
BTW, Cody said "clarifying that you are searching for a solution to a practical programming problem" asker hasn't done that, so yeah...
@TylerH no, that wasn't the problem with the post; the edit basically confirms my typo nomination
errr, duplicate nomination!
This question is a research question. There's certainly an answer, of some level of satisfaction, wrt how to figure out what version of .net supports what version of zlib, but the only link that has to programming is that these are tools used for programming... which in some cases is enough for it to be on topic here
15:19
@TylerH :D I try. Not very hard, though... I know that comedy and I aren't meant to be together.
@RyanM nope, edit predates my nomination
@tripleee thanks
@KevinB My Little Ponygrammer: Factories are Magic
15:50
@cigien It doesn't say which language they need the code for. And it doesn't even restrict to code only. I consider that unclear or too broad.
Does it need to be restricted to a single language? I could add [language-agnostic] to it if that helps.
16:24
@cigien According to the tag's description, it's intended for more abstract questions (which would probably make them more appropriate for cs.se), not "any language goes". And "or process" is asking for a tool, which isn't on-topic. I remember being said that "how to" questions not being restricted to a language are too broad, but I can't find any definite meta post about it, so I might be wrong.
Not to pile on, but I agree, too broad.
@cigien There's nothing inherently programming on that question
[language-agnostic] might not be appropriate. The question still seems useful, in that I might want to figure out how to resolve the URL, without it mattering what tool/language I use. Most "how-to" questions like "how do I sort an array?" don't make much sense without the context of a particular language.
Of course, even better would be if someone would split up that post into multiple different posts, each for a separate language, and move relevant answers there. Until someone does that (and I'm not holding my breath), the question seems worth keeping around.
You can read the Location: header using curl, and also would libcurl
I would certainly be in favor of historical lock if it were collecting delete votes.
16:32
I would certainly not have non programming questions on a programming site
Sounds like we should expect a delete vote when Braiam gets to 10k =P
@IanCampbell I don't mean keep it around just to prevent deletion, but also to have a place to post solutions to the problem.
Thankfully, they don't let me lock questions on this site.
Here you is the royal you
16:37
@Braiam You called?
@Braiam I'm not sure I understand the logic there. Sure, it can be solved on the command line, but that doesn't make it non-programming. e.g. I can sort numbers on the command line with unix sort, but sorting numbers is still programming.
@cigien Well, you can say that about any question, like Kevin said: if you squint hard enough, every question is a programming question.
@cigien Closed questions with that many votes and answers are kept around, but can't get additional answers. To me that looks like exactly the right treatment in this case.
As I said "There's nothing inherently programming on that question"
@StephenOstermiller As I clarified later, I don't see any harm in allowing additional answers on that post. 4 deleted answers is not bad at all for a 10 year old question, in fact. But yeah, if you think it shouldn't receive any more answers, that's fine.
16:44
I agree with cigien, I've seen questions with 50 score be deleted.
@Braiam Possibly. In this case, I don't need to squint at all to make it look like programming.
It looks like there are already too many to sort through to find the one that is going to work in your tech stack.
@cigien Well, if it's programming, what language/framework are we targeting?
@IanCampbell We need more of those
whatever language the answerer, who's just there to get rep, prefers.
duh
@Braiam Yes, that's been covered above.
16:47
@cigien I think you are mistaking sarcasm with an argument
Oh, you were being sarcastic? I didn't realize that, sorry. I find that hard to read in text. My bad.
I'm not sure what you're being sarcastic about, though. The question not specifying a language is a valid argument, much more so than the non-programming one.
FWIW there's dozen's of "How to unshorten x" in many different languages
@KevinB My point
There's no need for this one, as there isn't information lost, which is the only exception to deletion
i mean
strictly by the rules, "useful content" shouldn't be deleted unless it's harmful
@KevinB I would verify the source of that "rule", and whenever it resides on the /help route ;)
> Closed questions that are of no lasting value whatsoever should be deleted
16:54
Hmm, I posted the reopen-pls because I thought it should be reopened, and now the discussion has escalated to whether it should be deleted :p I guess I shouldn't be too surprised.
the source is a mod (or several) that i adamantly disagree with
I'm not sure why we have to go around and around on this one every few days. The answers provide a programmatic solution to a problem posted at the top of the page. It's been viewed by thousands of users and upvoted many times. It seems to be of lasting value to me.
@cigien Nah, I will not be surprised if it's not only not deleted, but actually locked
Rarely something important is deleted here
But since we are discussing still, maybe we should borrow knowledge from the ancients space.meta.stackexchange.com/a/150
When one requests reopening an awful question, the expected reaction is to prevent said reopening through deletion
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The problem is that people don't seem to recognize awful questions by what they are, looking just at metric that don't say anything about quality.
17:00
closed questions are closed because they don't belong here in their current state. If there's a possibility it'll be edited to change that, sure, keep it around. I don't think that's the case for something that's been around since 2011. The only reason it hasn't been roomba'd is because it needs people to review it due to the votes it received.
deciding it should be reopened is a valid response to that, as is deciding it should be deleted
I mean, reopening would be ok if there wasn't other reasons why it should be closed
deciding it should stay... and remain closed... is weird.
Ehh, I'm not arguing for that either :P
it should be locked or deleted
don't really care which
It should be deleted, there's nothing unique that merits preservation.
17:28
great, the one way into the staging ground is in a menu i have adblocked
@KevinB Does that mean you need an addon?
17:43
a link going to it in the announcement of it actually being available would suffice
^^ The newest answer there can go too.
i have no problem typing /review, for example
18:28
careful, @StephenOstermiller you're targeting a protected question :)
seems we're now protecting off-topic questions :)
oh... well... the question got protected in 2013...
@Cristik Protected just means that it can't be answered by very low reputation users. It is typically applied when there are a few spam or VLQ answers.
Its not protected from getting closed. >:)
yeah I know, was just trolling about the protection status :P
but yes, you're right, no kind of protection can protect a question from being closed :)
18:44
Except locks
19:12
Is this red flag worthy?
@NathanOliver Does it says babaji?
idk. Its a way off topic question not in English, so not sure if trolling or just a clueless OP.
When in doubt, unclear
It's not a question either.
20:03
When someone deletes an unanswered/closed/downvoted question and reposts it as-is, do you moderators find desirable to have this flagged?
provided that when the original question is not deleted, users — and even more so gold badges, can simply VtC as duplicate
it's a moderation activity that can be offset to the community, but do mods want to be notified in order to issue warnings or whatnot?
I'm not a moderator, but just remember that, as long as the user doesn't have any positively viewed content, the question ban algorithm will take care of the problem automatically. The company doesn't give us the exact details, but a low integer number of those deletions will get them rate limited.
Some more fun reading about the question ban.
@blackgreen I find that a flagable issue, yes. We're not going to allow that trick to keep bad content exposed to visitors.
@blackgreen In general, I think we want to know when there's more than one repost, or if the repost comes from a different account.
Plus, Ryan needs to get his flags handled count up.
Moderators can mark questions as duplicates even if the target is unanswered and from a different account.
@IanCampbell I know, I'm only in second for the week :-(
20:17
@RyanM Supreme cosmic power if ever there were any
Personally my favorite power is the ability to edit chat messages for more than two minutes.
100% agree. Typing in this room is so painfully permanent.
@IanCampbell Even worse for you because you can do it on Chat.SE...
Exactly!
@RyanM that's what I mean — except for some edge cases (different account, original deleted), non-mods can deal with it just fine. Not sure if you want first-time offenders to be brought to your attention
20:24
Honestly, it's a little weird that you can't edit messages, since there is a chat edit history.
@blackgreen Personally, I'll probably mark the flags helpful in either case, but if it's only one repost from the same account I probably won't do more than a comment warning.
It's visible to everyone, right? Not just 10k+?
@IanCampbell Correct, even logged-out can see it.
I see that a certain flower and I are kindred souls when it comes to editing chat messages.
My uninformed assumption is that it's to make life easier for ROs and moderators, so that people can't edit problematic content into older messages that would be harder to keep an eye on.
But 2 minutes is still too short, IMHO.
20:29
@RyanM oof, yeah that'd be nice
@RyanM I guess that's fair. I am often surprised by how much troublesome content lurks in chat.
Even 5 minutes would be a lot better, same as site comments (which don't have a publicly visible edit history - mods can see it, though).
@RyanM yeah
@blackgreen Seconded (or thirded since rene is a mod elsewhere). We even have an on-point message we send them to get them to stop
@Machavity What's your opinion on the threshold? First repost or at least two?
20:36
@RyanM It's been nice as an RO to just quietly fix newbie formatting mistakes on CVs
@blackgreen It's a bad question?
@Machavity fourthed, Ian is a mod too
@Braiam it's a sub-par question
@RyanM If they repost even once it's flagable. At the very least you need a mod to force one into a dupe state if there's no answers
@blackgreen So, just close and downvote. The system itself will catch up to that user.
@Machavity if the user is the same, it can be duped by regular users (I just did it earlier)
20:38
@Machavity What if it's from the same account?
I swear I just read a meta conversation about this.
blackgreen already answered, @RyanM You can close as duplicate if it's the same user even if no positive scored answer are posted.
Ah yeah, I meant regarding whether we want flags.
Having an answer is not enough to close as duplicate in other cases, it needs to be either accepted or score >0
@RyanM Most folks don't know the same-account exception. It's fine
20:39
@Braiam 99% of the time, though, that just means you need to upvote the answer.
Although once it was a question where I had answered someone else's question, and got neither an upvote nor an accept...that was mildly annoying.
20:57
@RyanM Fixed, now I'm in the lead for flags handled this week :D
Slow clap =P
wow
and I am only in the fourth place
Is there a way to get an asterisk to display in chat? I tried four of them, but strange things happened ****
@IanCampbell You mean just *?
21:13
Yeah, sorry, I mean just *, but two of them in the same message. It ends up markdown-ing into italics.
So you write an * and then another *.
You can just escape the markdown \*
\*\* -> **
Bah, I thought I tried that, maybe I have a userscript interfering. *Face palm*
@RyanM the trick employed here is that it doesn't turn asterisks that aren't next to a word into italics.
21:15
Thanks everyone
22:01
^ Can an RO remove it? OP has added details (maybe).
... although it's probably now "Typo" (pointers vs objects)?
@AdrianMole → 1 message moved to SOCVR /dev/null, by request
@RyanM Thanks. But it's still a mess. ;(
Feel free to re-request for a different reason
Meh
...gave you a wee comment flag, instead. :)
22:25
Does this link show an error page for anyone else? Is it just broken for moderators? stackoverflow.com/posts/71767648/timeline
@RyanM Shows me a link to a timeline.
Thanks, likely a mod-only issue, then. Gathering info for a bug report, much appreciated.
It's breaking a very convenient userscript.
Or maybe a browser-specific issue. Or usercripts? Many possibilities.
@RyanM Same. It shows me: this
Give me a diamond (just for a few minutes) ... then, I can give you a better answer. xD
22:30
Broken from both my browsers and another diamond has confirmed elsewhere it's broken for them, too.
Pffft.
@AdrianMole: with great power comes great responsibility
@HovercraftFullOfEels I know nothing of either.
(or the opportunity to really fark things up and see what chit happens)
@AdrianMole: Oh, I highly doubt that
With great alcohol consumption comes great forgetfulness.
22:36
With great movie quotes comes little wisdome
23:13
With great power comes great bugginess in the tooling to implement said power.
23:30
@RyanM 100% of the times that means that both questions are just bad.
I've had a moderator argue with me about an apt-get question, saying that they are duplicates, when they are both unclear.
Tried to upvote the answer so it can "close it", and my only response was to downvote the answer instead.

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