That part of the argument was to say that the answer was 0-voted until the war-votes started rolling in. (The community didn't deem it to be a "good answer" until the dispute began.)
We cannot use older pages with no upvotes to close new questions. It was because of the upvoted answers that the old page could be used to close the new page.
@mickmackusa I'm pretty sure the regex considers comment length in addition to the words used, so... dunno. Obviously some words don't matter like truly offensive ones but I think the "+1" is only deleted when it's short.
@KarlKnechtel It's voice-over-IP software. The whole tag is a dumpster fire, I'd estimate 80% of the questions are related to configuration or networking. Hard to clean up when almost every question gets a low-quality answer to boot.
@Braiam Tim Post was elected as an SO moderator in 2011. As is normal, Tim stepped down from being a moderator when joining Stack Overflow as an employee. After leaving employment with Stack Overflow, Tim went through the reinstatement process and was reinstated as an SO moderator.
@OlegValter furthermore, not a regex-specific gripe, but I am grated every time a high-rep user tells me that their code-only answer doesn't need anything else to be added. That adding explanation only make an answer worse. I've seen too many people of this same opinion on Meta too, so it's no use trying to post a new Meta question either. People just want to dump snippets instead of actually helping people/SO to grow as a resource.
yeah, I am also in the camp of "answers need explanation" with links to official documentation where possible at that. But it's likely pointless - I've come to think of the tag (and other related ones) as a stain on SO's surface
Maybe, in the old FP queue, posts were reviewed more rapidly because "Close" completed the process. Now that works in the new queue, maybe the size will shrink a bit.
@Dharman I thought the idea was, rather than quickly closing first questions as "need details..." we are now supposed to leave the Community comment to give the poster a chance to fix their Qs before they get closed. Seems like the dev team aren't aware of the power of SOCVR. xD
In First questions, I will use my CV privilege on, for example, duplicates and plainly off-topic posts (H/W, N/W admin, Dog-wormer, etc.) but use the "Leave feedback" option for those where it is relevant. Is this wrong?
@Dharman That's actually very pejorative. Although I haven't (yet) seen a response to such feedback in First questions, I have seen just that in First answers. The poster added the requested details and the post was then re-submitted to the FA queue.
But, had that answer just been flagged as NAA (it was link-only), it would have been deleted. The feedback allowed for the poster to correct the problem without going through the LQA queue and then having to undelete (or flag for undeletion, if it was ultimately made pink by Bhargav a moderator).
Hmm is this a bug in the new reviews? The same comment generated from two different queues (Late answers and Low quality answers) appears twice, rather than upvoting the original.
... and, do the "Delete/Recommend deletion" votes from the two queues get combined?
@TylerH Reminds me of a dropdown I saw once which had "true" and "false" as the only values (well, something essentially boolean - might have been "yes" and "no").
@TylerH The issue was that for SO Teams they felt they needed a way which allowed people who are a member of a Team to be able to switch to their profile for that Team. Previously, there was a separate drop-down containing links to their Teams profiles, which was only displayed for users who were a member of one or more Teams. I can understand consolidating those into a single drop-down which also includes the Meta/Main and Network Account links for those users with a Teams membership.
OTOH, it would have been better to leave the links outside of a dropdown for the vast majority of users who are not a member of a Team. Given all the other stuff for which they create substantially different HTML based on the various characteristics of the profile, it seems like just not using a dropdown there for most users would have been the way to go (i.e. no Teams membership, then no drop-down).
my understanding was that it'd never have more than the 2 links for normal users without a team
which makes it quite an inconvenient change for me
one that i'd happily go through the trouble of finding/making a userscript for
i'd never purposfully go to a user's network profile, i always want the meta profile or main site profile. if i did want to go to their network profile, there's a link for that elsewhere
Not to mention that the people working on it have to actually think about the edge case, which SE has consistently demonstrated that they don't really do, at least wrt. the UI.
@KevinB Yeah, the argument I'm seeing on RPG.SE from some users (luckily minority at this rate) is that yes actually OP does know far better than the community writ large, over time, even years later
And that all the other stuff that goes along with the accepted answer feature doesn't matter/is meaningless compared to the pin of the answer to the top
I dunno how they've survived so long with self-answered questions, mind you, since those have been unpinned for years
@KevinB Sure, but when you consider a broader context, such as "hey, I live in this world, too" it's better to make an effort to ensure the first result those people see is the right one
because, through the flapping of a butterfly's wings, if nothing else, invariably some of those people are gonna make life worse in a way that cascades down to affect us
@KevinB This may come as a shock to you, but people are still being born and growing up :-)
You're getting upvotes on basic stuff because young (usually) people are picking up programming for the first time
and SO is The Establishment now, so when people google how to do something, they're just as likely to find an SO answer as the top result as they are some tutorial or spec result
i mean, it still all boils down to who's rating the content. like, apparently there's "not enough people voting," and yet there's example after example of content that is wrong or poor advice getting pushed up the ranks
effectively, i feel like we're preventing the very people that the content is being... created, curated, etc for from rating the content. How can we really know what is useful or not useful, if the majority can't provide that information
views is the only metric that remains really
but that doesn't help rate answers
the data here: stackoverflow.com/tools/post-feedback there's 50million votes that are effectively just being throwing into a bottomless pit. I'm not saying we should allow 0 rep users to vote, more, if a large percentage of anonymous votes for a post are negative... maybe we can put that to good use somehow
surely people aren't just going around an anonymously downvoting things for fun to inflate that massive difference in vote composition between anonymous votes and non-anonymous votes
All things considered, its a great site. And there are no simple solutions, when you allow everybody to participate, regardless of history or analysis of votes.
an example... my oldest question received 2k views over 10 years. Not an incredible amount, but... more than the 18 total votes that occurred. does that mean it isn't useful? What was the breakdown of votes from unregistered users? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
at least 10 of the votes were from people mad at me for one reason or another
@KevinB It's the internet. Some people prefer to abuse instead of helping. Also the number of views is IMO not an indicator of quality - i.e. you click it, and think nahhh, on to the next one
eh, in 2014, when the majority ofthe votes came in (4 years after it was asked) i was active on SO, both answering, and downvoting/commenting. i received a lot of downvotes on my very few questions during that time
i can only assume the events are correlated, aka revenge votes
I tried to ask the mods here, about down votes. They said "downvotes are good!". I concluded that the votes are not about facts, but opinion based, as I said earlier
Also, if you correct your answer, the downvotes don't go away ... which is kinda wierd.
@Gowiser Sometimes they do. In C and C++, I've had a few downvotes, accompanied by comments, suggesting improvements. When made, the downvote often becomes an upvote.
@Gowiser Well, I suspect Kevin wants the votes to be based on opinions about the posts' content, not on whether someone is mad about something unrelated.
@Gowiser This part is...unfortunate. I wish there were a better system for handling this. There've been a few feature requests aimed at solving it, but no one has come up with a solution that wouldn't generate a lot of annoying noise for voters.
@AdrianMole Have you considered taking out your anger by upvoting content of mine that you find to be high quality? (this is a joke please do not do voting fraud)
@Gowiser When you find a way to determine, at scale, whether code solves problems and is bug free, please let me know so that I can invest in your company.
Yes, a little bit, sorry. More seriously, our moderators have neither the time nor the ability to try every single answer to know whether it works or not.
We have moderators that have extra privileges. These moderators could check a question/answer for quality, and remove down votes if they are obviously usefull questions or answer
They do (with the help of community managers) try to remove fraudulent voting that's based on being mad at the person rather than based on the content, but sometimes it's impossible to tell.
I mean, people don't even up vote OR accept the only answer, which is the correct one. so you could also have moderators that make sure to accept answers, that aren't accepted
I feel like making my first question on superuser asking why my old unix box says love doesn't exist: $ make love love doesm't exist. don't know how to make love
@Gowiser Right, but like... that doesn't scale. We've had 87,867 posts in the past week. We have 24 volunteer moderators. Even if they were all active 7 days a week (they're not), they'd each have to review 523 posts a day to see if they're useful or not, to see if they've been voted on correctly.
@KevinB I'd be curious for my question here...it has gotten a large number of views, but not much voting activity. I suspect it's mostly useful to people who can't upvote.
Or I'm a terrible writer and just good at picking titles. But I hope it's helping people.
a dialog like this one is enjoyable to me, because I'm not just complaining... I'm thinking, researching, learning, trying to solve a problem or prove myself wrong
@Gowiser I can tell you for a fact, based on experience, that a large number of people who've been pointed to that dupe do not find it useful for solving that problem :-)
Anecdotally, I do feel like I've seen fewer extremely obvious Android NPE questions...so maybe it's working. Or maybe Kotlin is getting more popular and has different error messages. Who knows :-)
I am in azure b2c hell myself, the documentation doesn't correspond to the GUI, and the changes they made causes their tutorials and code samples to not work, etc.
So I know we can't post close requests for old inactive questions, but there's no such time limit on delete requests. So is it ok to post delete requests for bad answers to those old questions that are stopping roomba?
@miken32 Yep, nothing wrong with deleting old, bad answers (though note that it requires votes from 20k users and not just 10k, which are slightly harder to come by)
though a lot of our 10k users do have 20k now. and some (hi Tyler) are getting close.
@RyanM I think miken32 has a point. A del-pls on an answer to an off-topic question is pretty much guaranteed to get the question closed as well. Such a request would effectively be a cv-pls, no?
Personally, I'll often skip cv-pls requests that are roomba-bound and unlikely to see additional interaction (especially when I'm short on votes). So I could see people just deleting the answer and letting the roomba eat the question.
That's my intention (to let roomba do it's thing) and I'm strictly looking to deal with answers that are very low quality. That last one I posted, the question isn't terrible and I didn't VTC. But the answer is useless.
It looks like it answers the question to me. It could be improved by showing how to compile with debugging info, but it doesn't seem particularly delete worthy.
The worst thing about these review queue changes for me is that it broke Samuel's Review Queue Helper userscript's edit function, so now I can't edit inline in the close queue.
Waaaay too many clicks to strip out the [android-studio] tag on questions that aren't about the IDE...
I don't think it's there any more, but the wording in the VLQ or triage (?) queue for rejecting an answer used to include "it should possibly be a comment..." Single sentences that are step 1 in a potentially very complex process are what comments are for IMO.
@RyanM So it has :) The point is still that one could get around the recent-activity limit on any question if it has a bad answer. Not that I think this is likely to be abused or anything, it was just an observation.