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3 hours later…
 
3 hours later…
06:44
This dupe worth keeping? stackoverflow.com/q/66191673/11573842
Self Q&A
Also note the state of the question before my edit... looks like a rant
07:23
Why oh why did they get rid of the "lacks minimal understanding" close reason? stackoverflow.com/q/66193224/9473764
What can I use instead?
@Nick Duplicate?
@JeanneDark I couldn't find one!
@Nick Could this be a duplicate target?
@JeanneDark That is exactly the type of functionality, but the code is specific to creating an object and wouldn't work for an array.
fp feedback on autoflagged post: ASP.Net Identity - Use custom Schema [MS]
Autoflagged FP: flagged by @SmokeDetector, @DanielWiddis
07:32
@cigien did you give SD an fp on the last post? how is that not spam?
@Nick No, I gave NAA feedback. It seems to be a "I have this problem on my site" answer.
@cigien maybe... maybe... never mind, it got deleted anyway
@JeanneDark found a dupe and hammered - I love my arrays badge :) thanks for looking
I'm better at finding dupes on MSO ;)
@cigien Are you sure it's not spam and you may have given wrong feedback to SD? That site was featured in a spam post before.
@Nick Actually, based on other evidence, it does seem to be TP.
@JeanneDark Yes, I changed the feedback.
@cigien well, it got deleted as spam, so I think the end result is ok.
07:44
@Nick Kind of. The post being deleted as spam, and SD getting TP feedback, are related, but different things.
@Nick The question is perfectly fine, and there's no reason to close it. Except as a duplicate of course (which Jeanne found).
@cigien actually I found the dupe in the end.
@cigien well, yes, and it's good that has been corrected too.
@Nick Oops, I didn't see which target you used. My bad. Thanks for finding the appropriate one, and hammering it.
 
2 hours later…
09:30
Who needs Netflix and co. when there's MSO?
@JeanneDark Have they made an MSO movie now? What rating does it have?
They'd have to create a new category
09:55
Python-Sphinx 3.5.0 release today [hastily updates all venv's...]
10:45
@halfer what would be the advantage of undeleting that one? the new one already has a a few answers, the deleted answer might be useful but nothing stops the poster from posting it again under the new question, if they want. Undeleting would create a situation with an instant dupe, with answers in both places. While it sucks the OP deleted an answered question and reposted, undeleting seems to create more issues than in it solve.
Maybe better a custom flag to merge those two questions, to salvage the deleted answer?
Is this now an answer to the question? Was flagged and deleted yesterday, now edited and undeleted by author.
11:02
@yivi Not deleting a question when it has a good answer is a point of principle for me. In the past I have sometimes flagged for mod, explained the self-deletion goes against the spirit of the site, and it has been undeleted.
I'm not familiar with merging questions - do I just flag for mod and link to the two Qs?
11:31
@halfer Yes, that would be sufficient. Explain why you think those questions should be merged as well.
Merge it or talk to my pitchfork
11:47
@cigien Alright, thanks
 
1 hour later…
13:19
I can't find anything on Stack Overflow
Search works for me
I was looking for "create a mysql table with PHP"
but I can't find anything
It's either all typos or some nonsense
i am facing connection failure issue several time in last one hours..
14:06
I recently got the delete vote privilege and wanted to ask what is the policy regarding deleting duplicates? Where do we stand with the flag-post philosophy and all that?
@Tomerikoo A good first-read is the 'official welcome' page to your 10K moderator tools.
... especially the bit that says: Also, be cautious when deleting questions closed as duplicates...
@AdrianMole Exactly the reason to my question: Also, be cautious when deleting questions closed as duplicates; they can serve as a signpost, directing users to useful answers on another question.
What's the criteria to when a duplicate should (or can) be deleted?
So, if the question is well-presented and has a 'good' title (i.e. one that may get Google hits), then it's likely a good signpost. If it's been around for a long time and has very few views, then it's likely a poor signpost.
I mean, any duplicate is a valid signpost (sorry for confusing with flags before) to its target in the end...
@AdrianMole Got it! Thanks! That's already a good criteria to act upon. Makes sense
Sometimes, a question title is along the lines of, "Why does my program keep crashing?" and it's a duplicate of an "array out-of-bounds" canonical. That title/question is not a good signpost.
But feel free to discuss possible delete candidates in here, without making a formal [del-pls] request.
14:14
Yep, thanks alot Adrian
... you'll likely find two opposing schools-of-thought: "Delete 'em all" and "hmmm..."
I think personally I'm leaning towards the "hmmm...". I was just wondering following one of the requests above
@Tomerikoo I usually go by the rule "is this question likely to be found by someone searching for sensible queries according to the problem?"
The 10K "delete vote" is a powerful privilege! Please don't be too enthusiastic about wielding it. We only really want to remove content that is harmful. Also, bear in mind that many poor/duplicate questions have good answers ...
@klutt Yeah I agree that's my initial thought too. My problem with that is that people can get creative so sometimes a weird title might actually be useful for someone else somehow searching the same
@AdrianMole No worries there. I'm still overwhelmed with my new powers and this is why I'm consulting with you legends here ;)
14:18
We're more fairy tales than legends.
... especially lurking trees bearing ocular fruit.
14:58
Has something happened to the help and improvement queue? It's empty
@klutt Yeah I have only seen one post there ever since I got 2k
@Yatin When I got 2k, it was neverending, and most of the posts were impossible to fix for anyone else than OP
:o
Then they renamed "Requires editing"? ;)
@JeanneDark Yeah, I see it now in the triage queue. That's probably it.
15:04
Thanks
@klutt Has been discussed in here before.
Anyway, it seems like that change really did its job
I'm not sure it did. It should neither be empty (then just get rid of the whole queue) nor full of close-worthy questions.
15:13
@JeanneDark True. Maybe it would be good if people with x rep could manually send it to the queue?
Sounds like a lot of work. I guess Triage itself is the root of the problem.
I think the idea of the Triage + H&I queues was to allow those without full edit rights to contribute usefully to reviewing what would otherwise be in "First Posts" (hence, moved to Triage, where they can send it to H&I for others to edit). Otherwise, having those folks make an edit just moves the reviewed posts into the (often clogged-up) Suggested Edits queue.
@JeanneDark I guess Triage itself is the root of the problem. No! The root-cause of the problem is all those dumb folks asking questions in the first place. ;)
@AdrianMole You need 2k to review in H&I.
Triage was introduced to replace the First Post queue and be fast
@JeanneDark Exactly. Folks with 500 can send it to H&I for others (with 2K) to actually edit.
15:18
That's why it was called "triage".
@Braiam Unfortunately, it's the least useful and most complex review queue.
Instead of a fat first post with tons of possible actions, you got triage with limited options and down the pipeline you had the close queue, the H&I and the homepage.
@JeanneDark Only because humans deal with it ;)
TBH, I think one of the problems is that there's no way of sending posts directly to the queues. You can only do it via indirect routes.
You only have 4(3) mutually exclusive options on the queue, on first post you have 8 non-exclusive options.
@klutt Wat? The only queue that is like that is the H&I.
@Braiam Also by design. Eg. you're supposed to send it to the appropriate queues but also have to take actions like flag (two buttons for this action alone), so you need to know what's on- and off-topic and enough flags per day. And even if you do, if the others don't, your flags are disputed and close-worthy posts remain open.
15:23
@Braiam It depends on how you mean. For instance, a new user can ONLY send their question to review queue by editing it.
@JeanneDark The easiest to visualize the queues is doing it on a vacuum. You don't care what happens to the question after, you only deal with the information and tools presented to you.
You only have 4 possible actions, you read the post and evaluate which action should be done with it. That's all you are supposed to do in triage. Give evaluations to the post presented.
Actually, I wouldn't mind a "Requires Editing" option in First Posts. Sometimes, I can see that a question is salvageable by some extensive editing, but I have neither the time nor the inclination. I can only "Skip" ... but sending it to H&I would be a reasonable compromise.
A user that acquired the privilege, shouldn't know (and shouldn't care) to which queue the post would fall into. They should only be worried that they evaluate the question correctly. It's the onus of the system designers to make sure post reach the right place.
Do we have any C# gold badge holders here, except myself?
All others are Silver, in your presence.
15:28
@AdrianMole That would be more confusing: why should users send to other users where they have the tools to do it themselves?
Also, remember, you can always visit the post on triage.
Would it be in FP and Triage? At the same time?
AFAIK, the big plan was to get rid of first posts.
Then the "Big Plan" requires Staff Editing.
I would love to get rid of first questions.
What - skip straight to second questions?
15:32
Yes. You can't ask a questions on the site unless you have proven yourself to ask good questions
So, we could have a test-question site. What shall we call it? How about "Meta.SO?"
@Dharman That would put a bar in the asking questions, something that SE has resisted with vehemency.
Stack Overflow: the prequel
And no, the wizard isn't a bar.
@Braiam It would be fine if that's all you had to do. But you have to take actions if you believe something's wrong with the post and flag it. In the end you just waste time and flags.
15:34
@Dharman SO: The Prequel*
There are often Wizards in my local Bar.
@JeanneDark If you feel that it's so, then don't use the queue :)
I don't.
The biggest problem with the queue was lack of guidance, now there's accurate guidance which makes it work better within the system.
But there is still a problem with the CV queue for those merely flagged, as opposed to those with votes. I see relatively few where I am the first reviewer in CV.
15:39
@AdrianMole That's because I post in here ;)
Heh. Maybe.
Maybe turn Triage into a captcha queue. You don't review posts, you solve captchas and receive batches if you solve enough. Also a pointless chore but not harmful to SO.
Nice work there @tripleee
Meh ... sometimes I hate the two clipboards/buffers in X ;D
That accepted answer is pretty much brain-dead and should be deleted ...
16:10
@tink That answer is just as bad as the whole concept of accepted answers...
Did someone say "stop pinning the accepted answer to the top"? ;)
3
@tink Gilles fixed the use of eval there. The double quotes should prevent code execution.
heh
@Tomerikoo Yes, I most certainly said that
@tink Why? What's wrong with it?
 
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2 hours later…
20:59
I must say my post on meta about edits automatically triggers reopen queue attracted some attention meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/405164/…
21:30
Today, I've run out of pretty much everything except wine and delete votes. Any offers for the latter?
@AdrianMole How about this deal? You give me some wine, and in a short while you'll probably have some posts from me to delete. :D
hehe - Because of the wine surplus, I have exhausted my answering quota. Too many sober watchers in the C and C++ tags.
It's more fun to code on weed than alcohol
... and I've been using up my review quotas quite early in the day, recently. Maybe I have Gold (badge) Fever?
Hehe, got all those in gold long ago
Except for help and improvement
21:36
... I wrote some of my best ever programs under the influence of Rastafarian Oregano. None ever worked, but they were really good, even so.
@klutt Multiple Gold Badges for each queue, now. Where've you been the past two weeks?
Multiple gold badges? What?
Yep. Gold (Steward) Badge each 1,000 reviews.
Any link describing the change?
... I now have more Gold Badges than Cody. hehehehe...
7
Many links. Announcement was on Meta.SE.
nice
21:53
@AdrianMole wow, 53 Steward badges. Amazing...
Well, I'm thinking of selling them on eBay.
Overall, though, I'm still not convinced the extra Steward badges are a good thing. Let's see what washes up in terms of review suspensions, et cetera.
Cool number (known as a Nelson). But Unheilig has 181.
... and greg-449 has over 200.
22:41
@AdrianMole perhaps you should lose a badge for every suspension?
@AdrianMole Have you seen Stalin sorting? pastebin.com/nC9QQbKJ
Can I rollback the last 3 edits? stackoverflow.com/posts/80646/revisions
@Dharman I rolled it back. Always amazes me the people who want to fix things with edits and they somehow make it worse
@Machavity @Dharman That was truly awful editing. I left a comment for him.
I don't know if that is such a good idea. Poiting out people's mistakes only leads to wars.
23:47
@Dharman I find that more often than not, people learn from it
But yeah, those edits made me want a feature to temporary remove the privilege to edit without reviews :D
@klutt you know what nobody talks about on SE? Privacy!!
Huh? How is privacy a concern here?
For all they knew, they wanted to do good. There's no point in getting angry with them or shaming them.
@klutt just reviewed the lot of the privacy posts and it's a real joke.
@klutt I read one today:"we trust our dear mods"...Well there's a problem with that, I know a couple of mods personally and wouldn't trust them to hold my beer.
Sorry, but I'm not following @bad_coder what does this have to do with privacy?
23:51
How did you get to know them personally?
@Dharman well, we were drinking beers back in high school...
@Dharman Well, I think that things should be a allowed to point out. And for myself, I do not take it personally as long as there's no rude language in it. Just avoiding sugar coating does not count.
@Dharman My comment was "Seriously, the edits you made did not improve anything at all.". On the edge to a bit harsh maybe, but I would not say that it's rude. Sugarcoating diminishes the message. But it would be way over the line to say something like "Hey, wtf are you doing? Stop destroying the posts!"
@bad_coder it is a bit odd to first let them drink many beers and once they are drunk expect them to hold your beer flawlessly ...
@rene man, this would be a long story...back when the internet was 28.8k
I added "I understand you want to help, and that's good, but those edits really did not improve stuff. And now when you have the amount of rep you have, your edits will not go to a review queue, so be careful with your edits. " to smooth it out

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