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8:00 PM
None of us is a lawyer nor have knowledge of copyright law, so continuing is a waste of time, since no consensus would be reached.
If you really want to get to the bottom of it, send an email to the cc foundation
@AndrasDeak Did you try throttling the browser using the dev tools?
 
nope
The video lags and stops and pauses, but the picture in picture window doesn't budge
(I also have more than half the page blocked in noscript)
 
8:17 PM
@Braiam Why not the contact us?
 
8:28 PM
@Scratte If you're using "contact us" you're effectively asking SE to take a legal position. SE's lawyers have, on multiple occasions, demonstrated that they are clueless (i.e. have given completely wrong advice) on the issue of what's necessary to comply with the licenses. Thus, I wouldn't trust their opinion.
 
@AndrasDeak Oh well, guess it's something in my configuration.
 
@Makyen Ok. So the only way to go about it is to contact Creative Commons, linking to the post in Question and linking to the Answer by BoltClock in halfer's post.
But then what to do if they say that this is noway acceptable?
 
@Scratte well, tell that to SE :)
 
I mean it strikes me a bit odd that users are relying on an Answer that is contrary to the text in the both the help center and the wikipedia page on how to reference material.
 
But I doubt they would make a hard and fast rule. They seem to give leeway in what "appropriate" means. When there's a case in the courts, we will know for sure (or they will say that it is a case-by-case basis as it's most of copyright law)
 
8:32 PM
@Braiam Why? I'd rather just send Creative Commons links to posts violating the attribution requirements.
Since it's not up to SE to ensure this. It's up to the users. The users are violating the agreement, not SE.
 
@Scratte They aren't the injured party.
 
@Braiam I see. It's kind of like stealing.. if no one reports it missing, no one stole it?
 
@Scratte Not exactly. My understanding of US legal system is that it's the responsibility of the injured party to claim the injury for civil cases, as it is copyright, but in penal case it's up to the DA.
 
@Braiam We're not all in the US.
 
@Scratte Complying with the legal documents: the terms of service, the appropriate CC BY-SA license, the referencing requirements, etc. is what is actually required. That people choose to cut corners is a personal choice. Cutting some corners, in the specific case of moving content from a question to an answer, is probably not something that's going to be held against you. But, that's going to depend on the person evaluating it and how many corners you cut.
The only way you can be sure, is by full compliance with all of the requirements, without cutting corners.
 
8:39 PM
Which of course can bring you trouble if you try to enforce it, since it gives a claimant basis for going against the enforcer for not enforcing their license.
 
@Makyen So, one can just cut corners until someone notices.. and then fix it. And go back to cutting corners on other posts?
 
@Scratte I can't give you an answer to that. It's not how I'd approach it, but is how some other people are approaching it, and are advocating you approach it. From a moderator's POV, the absolute minimum that is required is that you comply with the referencing requirements, which you and I have both previously linked.
As to my personal understanding of what the CC BY-SA 3.0 license requires, I go into detail on that in this meta answer, which is me basically explaining my opinion that how SE's lawyers were advocating Documentation be handled was wrong.
 
@Makyen I read that already :)
@Makyen But does that mean that those posts are flaggable?
 
Although I would never even claim to be an expert in any sort of copyright law, it just so happens that many (if not most) of the online academic journals that I am familiar with (and even contribute to) use the CC BY-SA agreement. If folks think it would be useful, I could ask my colleagues who are involved in editorial-level decision on such, to give an opinion ...
... whether those opinions would be relevant to SO material is an entirely different question, of course. CC BY-SA is (it would seem) vague by design.
 
@AdrianMole If they can do it in writing, you can even post an answer to halfer's post :)
 
@Scratte Just came in to this conversation ... I'll need to scan back to find the post.
 
@AdrianMole It's linked in the middle of the discussion here
 
One thing that concerns me is what Codidact is (or was) doing. The wholesale and bulk copying of content from SE to their network is, almost certainly, against the spirit of the law - even if, by proper acknowledgement, they are conforming to the letter of the law. But that's a matter for S.E. Inc. to decide upon.
 
@JeanneDark That's spam
 
@Scratte If the post doesn't comply with the referencing requirements, then yes, it's flaggable. For something like the example @Braiam linked above, there's enough there such that the intent is clear that the person who posted it wasn't trying to claim it as their work, so it wouldn't be considered plagiarism.
So, the resolution for a one-off flag/post would likely be that the moderator updates the answer to be closer to what's legally required: to meet the minimum requirements in referencing and to meet at least what Boltclock described in the answer @Braiam linked above (which the linked example didn't meet). You could accomplish something similar by just editing.
If you flag for a pattern of someone doing that (and link to multiple examples), then it's going to depend on the moderator that handles the flag. Some moderators would do very little, some would send a mod message saying that they should improve, some may issue a suspension along with the mod message.
 
9:00 PM
@AdrianMole You mean scrapping?
 
@Braiam It was rather more brutal than mere scraping. They have major contributors who are also established (and trusted) S.E. users.
 
BTW, and this seems to not be clear enough: plagiarism is when you try to pass someone's work as your own, license requirements are a whole other issue. Yes, they are related, but don't conflate both.
 
@Braiam I agree 100%.
Like I said, I just came into this conversation. But it's something that's been bothering me for a while. Copyright lawyers can be quite tolerant of 'innocent' websites; but there comes a point when a line is crossed.
 
@Braiam I believe everyone involved in this conversation has indicated an understanding of that distinction. However, it doesn't hurt to repeat it.
 
@Makyen I suppose some would even decline the flag.
 
9:06 PM
@AdrianMole if it's not reported, there's a post on mse about scrapping. It may scratch your itch :D
 
Most of my itches are (unfortunately) unscratchable.
 
@Scratte That seems unlikely, as long as you fully explain your concern in the flag, but you run the chance of any flag being declined when you raise it (moderators do make mistakes).
 
@Braiam CC0 for example doesn't have a requirement for attribution, yet you can plagiarize someone's work.
 
To be honest, I'm still much more inclined to contact Creative Comments with a cc to Stack Exchange. And while I may get my flag handled by a moderator, I'm thinking the answer on halfer's post that conveyed to always name and link to the user is not the highest voted one, so I'd probably also be more inclined to use the contant us instead of a flag for a user that consistently doesn't comply to the rules of attribution.
 
Remember what Adrian said, CC "is vague by design". There are not hard fast "rules" for it.
 
9:11 PM
I remember what the wikipedia page says. That's enough for me.
And it's not like it's a rule that difficult to comply with.
 
@Scratte But wikipedia has no legal jurisdiction.
 
And depending of who write what, it may not be valid either and just a interpretation of the editor.
 
@AdrianMole I did read some from creative commons when I was going though the licensing kerfuffle of Stack Exchange. I do not recall any discrepancy between the two. The wikipedia page was easier to navigate though. I also suspect they would keep an eye on those wikipedia pages to ensure nothing wrong is on them.
 
10:11 PM
@Makyen I have a vague recollection that we've discussed CC licensing before. Would you be willing to give an answer to my old Meta post, to outline your perspective? I think recording it would be valuable, and perhaps it will stimulate further thinking/site policy.
 
user12867493
Is this to be flagged as VLQ?
 
@Daniil IMHO this would make a good meta question if it doesn't already exist: "Is 'This is not possible' with no further explanation NAA/VLQ?"
 
@RyanM I believe it was already discussed.
 
@Braiam This is a related question, but addresses it with an explanation (which I strongly agree is an answer, and I've given several of these myself)
(same link)
I'm inclined to say, personally, that "This is not possible" with no further explanation is NAA, but that may not reflect consensus.
 
10:33 PM
@Daniil Meh. "No" can be an answer. The Q is terrible, tho
 
@Daniil Just downvote it. It's technically an answer, though definitely pushing boundaries.
 
I think it's a joke-Answer.
 
10:48 PM
@RyanM How come a 6k user has to suggest edits?
Wait never mind
 
@10Rep Tag wikis can only be directly edited by 20k+ users
 
@10Rep It's a way for us to earn 2 rep at a time to make up for all our downvotes
 
@DanielWiddis Oh yeah, I forgot I can still earn rep like that.
 
11:07 PM
 
@RyanM The new URLs are completely different. I don't think it's an appropriate edit, it should be either a new answer or a comment to OP to update.
 
@Nick The first link appears to be the new home of the old content, though it's been reorganized. Note the similarity of this old version and this page in the new one (slightly different than their link).
The second one just replaces the current URL with what it currently redirects to.
That was my logic, at least.
 
@RyanM I see your point, but I still think it's too drastic a change for an edit. But I'll stay out of this one and let the rest of the community decide as I'm not an SME.
 
I see your point as well. It's possible I'm wrong, but I don't think so.
 
11:44 PM
@sideshowbarker FYI there is code, but I assume this is not enough, right?
 
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