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14:13
@Dharman If you mean the fact that spread has been in PHP since version 5 rather than being added in version 8, I'm not sure that detail alone makes the Q close-worthy.
It's asking what the difference between the two functions are; when they were added is not really relevant to that... at least not directly
@TylerH The link attached doesn't say anything about spread operator. I am not sure what compact() has to do with it. The answer doesn't help me understand the question.
Of course it is not about the version. I could retag it if I knew what they were talking about.
Gotcha
Just making sure the vote wasn't just for the version as that was all I could tell from reading the question and your comment
I think OP just confused three unrelated things.
@TylerH Technically, you only need to read php.net/compact and wiki.php.net/rfc/spread_operator_for_array to know what each one do.
(If taking the title at face value)
14:33
@AnnZen Is that really Needs Focus? Seems fairly clear and has got a decent answer.
14:44
@NathanOliver move 1 message to SOCVR /dev/null pls
thanks
@NathanOliver make me a sandwich pls
!!/sandwich
@NathanOliver No such command 'sandwich'.
14:50
:(
@Braiam Sorry, were out of sandwiches at the moment.
Would you like some spam instead?
15:03
@NathanOliver When people ask for that sort of thing, you're supposed to make them into a sandwich. :)
chewy ...
lalalalaxz
@AnnZen yes
15:14
@AnnZen yes, same user
@rene Funny, I thought users can't close posts as a duplicate of another post with no answers.
self dupes are an exception
Is it okay to reopen a question if we feel it is not a correct dupe
@AnnZen yes, it's not the typical dup, it's "This question already exists"
@AnnZen In the beginning, it was possible to close duplicates against any question.
15:17
@akrun of course. We did it just today here, a while ago
@desertnaut i reopened a question yesterday based on the initial dataset because I find it was not a dupe. then the OP changed the data and I closed it. Now, I got moderators comment that I reopened to answer the question when it was actually answered before the closing
@desertnaut are you still editing on that dupe target?
@rene which target? the original one?
My question is that under what circumstances you get suspended for reopening a question
@desertnaut no, the one you edited ?
15:19
I find several of the dupes I close get reopened by others as well
@rene I edited this, to remove the "Please help": stackoverflow.com/questions/63103021/…
@desertnaut I've added some tags. I didn't want to overwrite /interfere with any pending edits you might be working on ...
@rene OK, cool
@rene but someone else updated the tags after you!
fine
15:27
compatriot of mine :0
@E_net4wantsmoreflags I don't think so
Can someone help me understand why this low quality review completed with the post surviving? The post timeline says the review was invalidated.
@robsiemb Similar situation discussed on Meta.
@AdrianMole I saw that answer but I definately don't understand how it applies here. I can't imagine a moderator dismissing the flag on this post. Is it wrong for me to just reflag this as NAA?
@robsiemb that's actually an answer, fluffed with "thank you"
15:40
^ Probably not.
@AndrewT. Ok, thank you, that makes more sense, my bad on the review then.
We need fluffy flags!
@robsiemb Why do you think this is not an answer? It looks like it solved the problem.
@Dharman Because I did a bad job of the review and the edit clarifys the situation immensely. :( [waits for review suspension]
@robsiemb I guess it was because it contains an element of an answer. I edited the post to make this clearer.
15:42
@desertnaut Yes, exactly that, thank you.
@robsiemb you are welcome
mhm. I think I cv-plsed that question yesterday... I’d already downvoted it.
@akrun dv-pls?
@Andreas what is that tag dv
@akrun DownVote. Last time I checked, LMU was removed.
ok thanks, I was not sure whether we can request for downvoting
15:54
@akrun "Too basic" is not a close reason. Please use actual close reasons in your request reasons.
@akrun No, you can definitely not ask for downvoting.
@akrun Not sure if we are, or if I just made it up. The rules state we shouldn’t behave like a mob, and they’re not happy about explicitly targeting downvoting from this room.
then what is dv-pls
@akrun A «downvote, please» tag I made up.
ok, got it.
@Makyen I meant too basic because it is a basic question about the language assignment operator
@Makyen Sad. I want LMU back.
15:57
@Andreas Don't request downvotes. Period. Don't joke about it, either.
4
@Makyen Do you know the rules for reopening
I meant is it subjective
@akrun It needs to, now, be an on-topic question which is not a duplicate of some other non-deleted question.
@Makyen I meant reopening a duplicate tagged question
Ok... I’ll take a break.
i.e. if somebody close with a not so accurate dupe, is it possible to reopen it
16:01
I'd suggest trying to find a better one first. If we can find a better one, a gold tag badge holder or a mod can change the dupe target
@akrun You appear to be wanting me to make general statements to apply to a specific situation. That's not going to be that helpful. If you want a specific situation looked at by a moderator, please raise a custom flag and explain. If you have a specific problem with something a moderator has done, then Meta is the best place to take it, unless it's just a mistake on a question and can be worked out by raising a custom moderator flag and explaining.
A lot of such problems are the result of raising standard flags for situations which are not obvious. If the situation isn't obvious, then explain it in a custom flag. Don't make, or expect, moderators to re-do investigations which you've already done, based only on a standard flag. Standard flags are for things that can be taken care of easily, without the need for a lot of context or investigation.
16:22
@Makyen Meta is the best place to take it?
@AnnZen there is a , in that sentence.
@rene i know
I'm asking about that specific situation.
@desertnaut You might want to check Meta. Or maybe not. Your call.
@AnnZen I don't even know what the actual issue is that started this inquiry, so my comments are really just general advice.
@E_net4wantsmoreflags ???
clarifications most welcome
what exactly about?
16:27
E_net4_need_details_or_clarity xD
4
@E_net4wantsmoreflags oh, I see
If you have a specific problem with something a moderator has done, is Meta the best place to take it if it's not just a mistake on a question and can be worked out by raising a custom moderator flag and explaining?
@AdrianMole He who needs flags might take care lest he thereby becomes a flag.
I prefer flagons.
16:32
@AdrianMole "E_net4 wants more flagons" sounds quite different.
I'll be back later - I'm off down to the flagon-vending establishment. :-)
My display name is mine to choose. Pick your own. :P
@AnnZen Yes, where else would you take the issue? Meta is the primary communication route for issues with moderator action. If you're unable resolve the issue with moderator action via Meta, or doing so requires disclosure of information you wish to remain private, then there's always "contact us", which goes directly to Stack Exchange employees.
Since it received an upvote I'm a bit unsure: Is that question not a bit too broad?
@JeanneDark It is too broad. Alas, some people just upvote for poor reasons.
16:37
I agree with you
Somebody just pinged me in an (almost) instantly disappearing message?
@Andreas My fault. An older message needed more context, because it's being seen out of context. You can ignore the ping.
@Makyen Oh... Ok.
@adiga Why was this reopened? I remember voting it closed earlier today.
16:49
@VLAZ I don't know. I too had cv'd it.
Looking through the history - it was apparently edited few moments after it was closed, which must have put it in the reopen queue. 3 vs 1 voted reopen there.
It even went through a First Post review later...not sure what the result was, since the reviewer doesn't have enough rep for close vote. It just says "reviewed". Ideally they posted a close flag which I'm not able to see.
Is it acceptable to @-mention the three reviewers (in three different comments) to tell them not to reopen typo questions?
@VLAZ I wouldn't really. This question was improved and it threw the reviewers off. If not for the edit then no one would vote to reopen
@Dharman It wasn't improved THAT much. Not enough to make it not a typo - the title was slightly altered and the starting sentence was moved to be the ending sentence (from before the code to after the code). Finally the snippet was removed. My comment under it stays the same, and there is even an answer that amounts to "it's a typo".
Oh, sorry, the sentence wasn't moved, it was added. I still don't think how it can seem like a good reopen target.
@VLAZ I am saying it was a silly mistake by reviewers. You would go through so much trouble to expose reviewers when the real problem is the user who edited the closed post to polish a turd. Reviewers might not be familiar with JS and they only saw "improvement". Sure, they should have looked at the question more thoroughly but we all make mistakes in the reviews. I don't think they intentionally voted to reopen typo question, they just fell asleep a little
17:04
@VLAZ Is it acceptable to @-mention the three reviewers: wouldn't that be close to crossing the line of not moderating users?
@Dharman That the user edited is excusable. The edit was submitted < 40s after closure, which means they were editing well prior to closure.
so, I say let's drop it. People made mistakes and this room fixed it
I don't really blame the editor, myself - they very likely started editing before the question was closed. The edit was made less than a minute after the closure, and given the changes, it would have taken more than 30 seconds or so. But three different people did a review and found the question to be not a typo.
@Vickel You can't. Pings don't work, unless the user made some unilateral action (e.g. edited, used a dup hammer to open/close. etc.).
@Makyen but you could from this room, couldn't you? that's why I'm asking.
17:08
@VLAZ If you see the same reviewers make similar mistakes then you should flag and ask moderators to suspend them, but based on one mistake I see no reason to have mod reach out to them
@Vickel not unless the people were active here "recently"
^ ah ok
@Vickel What I do, or do not do, with respect to moderation of other users is between them and I. It's not for public consumption.
^ I think this was plural-general you, not Makyen-you
^ I got that :)
17:11
^ Question is not even about programming.
@Vickel From strictly a site functionality POV: normal pings in a room chat only work if the user is A) in the room, or B) for 7 days after the user was in the room, if they have ever posted a message in the room.
Moderators can "superping", which will work from any room, even if the user has never been in chat.
@VLAZ You can infer if a closed flag was raised.. in this case it seems not.
@Scratte What should I look for? As far as I know, a close flag would add the post to the close queue but I'm not sure if I can check for that. Or is there something else that could be a clue?
@ChristopherMoore I think so. Seems like a different question.
17:18
@VLAZ Should it be a custom flag? It was missed in both first post and late answer queues.
@VLAZ That is the clue. The post would have entered the close vote queue at 13:51:26Z + x seconds/minutes. At the time of closure, the queue would appear on the timeline with "invalidated" as it was closed outside the queue.
@ChristopherMoore I've left a comment, give it another try with a flag
@Scratte Ah, gotcha. It's only apparent after closure. I thought you had a secret way to tell without that.
@ChristopherMoore what is always a bit amazing is that NAA answers like that didn't pick-up a downvote. It is a strong signal when reviewers see the post.
17:24
@VLAZ No.. No secret way. But you must wait a little before seeing queue enters or exits, as they are not done immediately when flagging/voting to close or when a closure or reopen as happened.
But 30 minutes is certainly enough time. It's usually just a minute or two.
@Scratte Non-moderators can only see that a post has entered a review queue in the timeline once the review is complete. You can look at the review queue history and try to find it there, but that requires that someone has actually done a review of the post.
@Makyen Yes. We were discussing if one could infer if a reviewer raised a flag or not during review. Which one can, once a post is closed only.
@Scratte It's usually several to many minutes. The tasks run on schedules which can be anywhere from 5 minutes to 1/2 hour, depending on a variety of factors. I don't know the exact schedule, but for ones which I know it varies considerably.
@Makyen That is very frustrating :) But I find it to be quite fast usually.
17:30
@Scratte Your statement, in isolation, implied you could see based on the post entering the queue... so I should have read more.
@Makyen That would be nice, if we could :) But no worries. I do not mind explaining what I meant.
Thanks.
Is it just me, or is there an unusually high volume of homework dumps today?
Just you.
@VLAZ You can also infer it when the post leaves the queue due to aging away, but that can take up to 14 days, if I remember correctly. Any vote will restart the counter, if I understand the process right.
If somebody got their question closed for being unclear, then deleted it and reposted almost the exact same question, what action should be taken by reviewers? The new question has since been edited but is still lacking the necessary information for a proper answer. Original question | New question
@MihaiChelaru If the new question is still off topic, vote to close it
19:00
@NathanOliver Okay, will do, thanks!
Oh, it's -3, not -2...
Maybe once I'm 20k I'll be able to remember those rules
19:43
Can I repeat a cv-pls if it didn't get any attention? I don't know why the question is still open though, no one said anything against my duplicate proposal
If your request was moved to the graveyard already and the question wasn't fully acted upon (e.g. it wasn't just closed and then later reopened by other users), then yes, you can re-request it.
However if it's still in the room here, you must wait. Likewise if it has been requested, was closed, and is simply open again, then it can't be re-requested here.
@TylerH Okay, thanks
@oguzismail The only thing I'd add to that is that you can re-request under the conditions mentioned above only once.
20:06
Yes, forgot to mention that caveat
Could anyone help me understand why this LQP review task was invalidated? stackoverflow.com/review/low-quality-posts/26786322
I suspect a moderator reviewed the flag and declined it, but perhaps there's another reason.
@IanCampbell That is probably the case.
this post: stackoverflow.com/questions/63120796/consent-sdk-gdpr was translated from Ru to En. Does it fit to to reopen? I don't know Java.
@IanCampbell Based on a very similar experience I had this afternoon, I'd bet that it was invalidated because it actually does contain an answer to the question, if a relatively low quality one (install the plugin before running that command).
@IanCampbell That looks like a clear case of a "Thank you"/placeholder post. So.. no idea why. I do not know if moderators can see comments.
20:21
@robsiemb The OP is clearly replying to the author of an answer who suggested the solution that works.
@IanCampbell True, but it also contains an answer to the question. If you edit out the fluff, the answer is there.
@robsiemb No.. it doesn't. It just repeats if for clarity of what it replies to.
By that line of logic, I could repost the accepted answer and ask another question on any post.
@IanCampbell Given that the review was invalidated a bit over an hour after having entered the review queue, it's a reasonable bet that it was invalidated by a moderator declining the flag. Declining the flag is the correct action. The answer does, in fact, answer the question. That it thanks someone for how to do it is secondary. NAA and VLQ are not for reporting things that are answers. If there are other issues, that's what custom mod-flags are for.
I guess we're reading this post in different ways.
20:25
@Scratte To me, the wording of that post reads as an actual attempt to answer, not as primarily a "thank you".
@Makyen Yeah, I also have that reading, mostly because it leads with the solution, not with the thanks and the extended commentary. If it were the other way around, I could easily read it primarily as a thank you.
This has got to be the most frustrating thing about this site. In my mind, the author of that post clearly intends the primary purpose of the post to ask for clarification from the author of the answer to their question or at best to stand as a placeholder for their later answer.
@Makyen I trust your judgement. I read it again. It does mention the name of a plugin.
@IanCampbell But, does it actually answer the question, right now?
It does answer the question, but it merely restates the answer provided by the author of the other answer. Again, the logic that any question can copy the accepted answer and avoid the NAA rule seems questionable.
20:30
how is a copied answer not an answer? If the original is an answer, then the copy must be as well. If it's a straight copy, then it needs to be mod flagged for plagiarism. If not, well there are down votes and delete votes.
For example, should "Thanks Bob, the answer is foo = bar, can anyone help me understand why foo = bar?" be allowed on every post?
@IanCampbell No, it doesn't. It's an answer. That means it's not NAA. That doesn't mean that it's good, or that it shouldn't be deleted. Those are more complex problems that should be reported with a custom mod-flag. They should not be reported with a flag that says merely "Not An Answer".
@IanCampbell Also note that in this case, the author's answer predates the other user's answer (and instead refers to help in the comment thread) by about 2 minutes. I also actually find this answer [post fluff removal] more useful, since it directly says what action to take, rather than more complex explanation.
Being more specific makes it easier for the mods. In case of VLQ or NAA, it should be immediately obvious and not make it necessary to check every other answer to the question (or comment). If it's not that obvious, raise a custom flag and describe what's wrong with it.
That's an interesting point I didn't notice last night when reviewing it. The OP answered in response to the comments.
@JeanneDark I did not flag the question, I only reviewed it in LQP.
20:38
@IanCampbell If that's a comment under an answer, it sounds like it should be posed as another question
@Vickel No, it's now just saying "tell me how to write this code correctly" without saying what is incorrect about it.
OK, I agree, I'll be more careful reviewing the timeline next time.
@TylerH thanks, I thought so, hence my question...
Thanks for the feedback. Although I still have concerns about the extremely narrow interpretation of "NAA".
@IanCampbell Get in line :-)
The description itself could be trivially updated (literally change one word) and it would solve so many problem flags
Shog even agreed when I raised that point but then... didn't do it. Something about being too busy
What description would you recommend?
20:42
@IanCampbell Instead of saying "doesn't attempt to answer the question", have it read something like "doesn't attempt to answer any question"
Most people (rightfully) expect "NAA" to mean "this doesn't answer the question it was posted under", because that's what a contextualized NAA flag would mean in a perfect world. And the description supports that.
Unfortunately mods/meta/whoever decided at some point that, instead, NAA is for posts that aren't possibly an answer to any question ever.
Like "Thanks" or "I'm having this problem to" or "buckaroo bonzai is a great movie, go watch it"
such answers really should just be flagged as VLQ or, if you're particularly zealous, Rude/Abusive, in my not so humble opinion.
@NobodyNada are you asking for our opinion or requesting a ?
@NobodyNada OK. Please avoid using the "cv-pls" nomenclature if you're just asking for an opinion, in the future :-)
@TylerH Will do, thanks. Sorry for being confusing
@NobodyNada Ultimately no repro, but I closed as Server Fault. My reasoning is that while Apache HTTPD is on-topic, the root problem seems to be networking config
20:58
@Vickel edited it to remove the non-English part
@desertnaut was not sure if this is the correct way to proceed on bilingual questions, retracted my CV
@Machavity I've retracted my CV, please bin request, thanks (stackoverflow.com/questions/63122745/…)
@Vickel Well, it certainly seemed that the English & Spanish texts were actually the same (when translated), so it seemed like the right thing to do here (not sure I have come across such a case before)
@Vickel Binned per user request
^thanks
21:26
@Andreas If you see a question that's a duplicate, it should be closed as a duplicate. It certainly shouldn't be closed for a reason that doesn't apply (like "typo", for example). Basic questions are OK as long as they are asked well and don't have a duplicate already... they're rare, but such posts make the best canonical duplicate targets for future questions!
22:28
@Dharman No offence, old friend, but maybe take some 'time off' to earn some (well-deserved) Mermaid Points?
I try to answer something at least once a day, but no upvotes. I even asked a question today.
I got 4 revenge downvotes though
It's a funny old game, for sure. But you would be so much more useful with 20K privs.
They don't give much
Only the ability to delete negatively scoring answers
I'm still waiting ... but "Delete" on poor answers is a powerful vote.
... and, for me, the ability to "Improve edit" on tag wikis. But that's a moot point, just now. ;-)
22:45
^ Can one fail not horribly?
You can fail miserably.
Pedantic.
I'm just a horribly miserable failure ... but at least I've found a peer group! :)
That's the spirit
@DavidBuck Why? It is about Android Studio
23:02
@Dharman It is about Android Studio, but it could be about any software it and the answers are all about hardware. I thought it fell on the wrong side of the software development-related vs GC/hardware related line, but I'm quite prepared to withdraw my CV if there's disagreement with that assessment.
@AdrianMole Not me. That was a colleague.
@TylerH I do not subscribe to that logic, which is why I am also opposed to making your suggested change to the wording.
@CodyGray Like I said - no bother. It was just a curious synchronicity between your "Whack-a-Mole" comment and the (well-deserved) 'whack' I received.
@AdrianMole I don't have a live feed of your whacks, so it's entirely possible that I miss them.
Lesson learned! I'll stop reviewing for a while and earn rep., instead! ;-)
23:12
Did you get suspended?
He got a vacation from reviewing.
Hmm. Air my dirty laundry, why don't you.
Isn't that what you do on a vacation? Unless you go to a posh resort, I guess.
... but the matter was discussed in here, and I was almost asking for a ban suspension.
I', fae Glasgee - we dunnee do "posh!"
I inferred it from your "stop reviewing for a while".. I do not remember seeing that discussion.
23:15
I goofed.
He forgot to apply the Gray-Google Strategy.
^ That!
Oh.. I see. I remember something about that. But not what the strategy is.
^ Don't goof!
That can't be the strategy...
It wouldn't be named after me in that case.
23:17
hehe
I just get my flags disputed in Triage instead.
Late Answers was my favorite queue :)
What about Early Answers? Maybe we need a FGITW review queue.
Yes! Another review queue! Sign me up, PLEASE!!!
@Scratte Starts around here.
And then my reply days later...
23:24
@CodyGray That would be nice.. especially when they're wrong.
@HovercraftFullOfEels Closed as "Hovercraft is a king"
@CodyGray Ain't it the truth? Ain't it the truth?
"Closed by Tim - 'nuff said!"
@AdrianMole But.. how did it result in a vacation?
Coz I goofed.
... just surprised about the relative leniency.
23:27
Yes.. and you know it.. so.. ? Auto-vacation? or Induced by the gods?
Blue-people.
@Scratte I don't think that's a good dupe, their problem is much more basic and stackoverflow.com/questions/9478273/foreach-keyword-in-java would be a better fit
@Scratte Message was: "The suggested edit was for the most part, plagiarism, and should have been rejected. Please pay more attention to each review in future."
@RyanM No. They want to loop a list in a list.
Well.. both will do :D
@AdrianMole So.. next time don't tell everyone in chat :)
@Scratte They actually just want to loop through a list of lists, but the fact that the list is of lists is irrelevant
23:31
@Scratte I'm thinking that, without that chat, the vacation would have been longer.
Note the second/third lines of their example: it's a simple conditional on each member of the outer list
@RyanM I noticed the "I just don't know how to get from looping through the main list to checking the item's in the sublists"
Well, it's definitely a duplicate of one of those.
I got 'em both in there, so we're safe.
Yes :) Thank you :)
23:33
Excellent.
Follow-up question: my nested for-each loops are very slow. How can I make this faster?
^ Un-nest them.
Get a faster computer :)
But.. modifying a list while looping it, is probably not the best default approach.
@AdrianMole Oh!.. Keep talking about all the stuff you goofed then. My notes are only half full :)
Bedtime in Blighty.
That's not fair! He's going to sleep through his review suspension! Quick, somebody suspend me so I can sleep!
23:43
@CodyGray Minor counterpoint to a point I otherwise agree with: I've seen dozens of Android questions that ask a common question and state something like "I tried all answers and none worked." Occasionally, they will link the canonical and say it didn't work. These questions aren't answerable, because we don't know what makes the OP's question not a duplicate. In these cases, the answer is often "you applied the advice incorrectly" and so we actually do need to see the attempt.
In a sense, I guess that makes it a debugging question.
@RyanM Yes, of course. Those are debugging questions. Ah, I see you got yourself there, too.
Any time you're saying "it doesn't work", you (A) are asking a debugging question, and (B) need more details.
While we're griping about bad reasons to close questions, a lot of people (not, as far as I've seen, people in this room) seem to have mistaken "needs details or clarity" for "your request is not possible"...
Yes, that's annoying. There is apparently this mistaken belief that "This is not possible" is not an answer.
Such answers get flagged a lot, and it annoys me.
Well hopefully all the flags on my answers that say that go to you, because I've got a bunch...
If the question is trivial enough then no, just posting "No." is not a satisfactory conclusion. Presumably the OP must be missing out crucial detail, so the question must be unclear. As in "I can't believe you're really asking if lists are built-in types in python"
23:48
@AndrasDeak A recent example (disclosure: I answered this)
I, of course, don't just post "No.": I explain why it's not possible
yeah, that's not the kind I have in mind
That question needs edits
Yeah, I might fix it up a bit...
I think I answered it as I was heading out to do something else and never got around to my usual question touch-up
Lipstick applied. The pig held quite still.
Definitely doesn't need an [android-studio] tag. As far as I can tell, this has nothing to do with the IDE.
ooh, that's a great edit...
@CodyGray Confirmed, absolutely no relation. Very common mistake, though...
23:53
I should start tagging questions with because that's where all my errors are printed
3
@AndrasDeak That's too close to a hardware problem, you should obviously tag them with the terminal emulator that prints the errors to the screen ;-)
too lifelike
I think that adequately describes where all the problems come from.
No lies detected
too bad was burninated with the welcome wagon
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