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00:00
@klutt Sometimes, you leave for the purpose of being away for 5 minutes, but then something comes up, and you're away for 40 minutes, without getting to write that in a comment, first.
We can do the same in chat. Keep posting every time we need to go to the wash room and when we get back.
@Andreas Yep, shit may happen. If that happened to me, I'd apologize when I came back, but I rarely see that.
@Scratte We should. Why have you been away for so long? What did you do? I must know. Tell me. Do it now.
Isn't this the same as the top answer? stackoverflow.com/a/63022351/1839439
Yeah, it looks like a "thanks" answer
They told us we're going to get those now that the handwashing emojis have been removed.
00:02
But it mentions different version
I might have missed that one in the LQP queue
I don't know, maybe I was just being too generous with that answer.
@Andreas I guess I should start now then. I'm going to sleep.. ;)
@klutt To be honest, I think you should just try to not take issue with this. If it's annoying that you get no response, then perhaps leave the question? Anyway; I haven't answered as many questions as you, so I don't have as much experience with this issue.
@Scratte Aha. Sleep well, then. Let us know when you wake up. :)
@Andreas Yeah, it's not really the end of the world. But IMO, I think it's quite rude to go to a free service and just dump some text and then leave.
00:05
It's not about answering. I leave lots of comments on post. Sometimes I get an response immediately, sometimes the day later, often, I don't get one at all.
But Yeh
Anyway, I got really happy when I managed to do a comparison to the "This goes to 11" from the move Spinal Tap in an answer today :D
@klutt 60 seconds left to edit in a . in the beginning of the message :)
@klutt Shouldn't have linked that in here. Someone is going to edit it out.
What was wrong?
(Bathroom brb)
@klutt When you post a chat message that is only a link, it expands into an in-line preview.
This is known as one-boxing (I don't know why) and is discouraged per the FAQ
00:11
Ah, I see. So I should type something in front of them then?
One possibility is . .
Room owners can now edit the message instead of removing it.
Well, two of the room owners can anyway.
Any character will do.. the toilet overview will also work: []()
Toilet overview? :D
00:13
@IanCampbell Or delete it ;)
@klutt Yes, Cody mentioned it looks like an overview of a toilet :)
[@](·)
@klutt Hey klutt. We request that you not onebox your chat. You can either use markdown or add characters before the link to prevent it
Slightly more complex
Much better. Thanks
00:15
Sorry about that
..I almost made a somewhat snarky remark when I first noticed the one-box, but I think others are much better at it, so..
@Scratte What's the overview for one built into the wall?
Why are peole voting to delete this one? stackoverflow.com/review/low-quality-posts/26739971
Must be this one |().. doesn't work with markdown :D
@Dharman because they see "I had the same issue as well" and don't read the rest of the post
00:16
I doubt that would be the reason
In my experience, LQP reviewers are...not great a lot of the time
I voted to delete because the answer didn't address the OP's question.
You're thinking of Triage
@IanCampbell that's a downvote reason, and not a delete reason, isn't it?
Oops..
00:18
@NobodyNada Let's not start that discussion again.
@Dharman no, I'm thinking LQP -- I don't review Triage
@Dharman I haven't seen "that discussion", but OK not a problem
I think this answer is low quality, but I don't think it should be deleted in LQP.
I usually go by Undo's guidance for this sort of thing, is that no longer the general consensus?
That is the guidance I was trying to apply.
Should a file name that includes the extension, like "example.txt" be formatted as code, in backticks?
00:21
@Andreas Is it code?
@IanCampbell from the image: "wrong answer: downvote, comment; not [delete]!"
I just didn't feel like, "I misspelled the module" was a wrong answer. It's not answering the question.
@Dharman mhm, no, that's why I'm asking, since it's not code, but I find it more readable that way.
@Andreas It's a matter of style; does it make it easier to read?
@IanCampbell Somebody else could mispell the module, get the same error, and find the SO question via Google
@NobodyNada Yeah, but I'm editing a question, so it's not necessarily my own style at play.
00:22
@Andreas In some situations a filename could be part of the code, but most of the time filename is not in any way part of the code. Don't use incorrect formatting to make some parts of the text emphasised
mhm, ok, then.
By that logic every question on the site could have a "I misspelled something."
And just so you know, that exact thought went through my head before I clicked recommend deletion. "What if someone finds this later and it could have been helpful?"
The image of that post is confusing. Is this a case of an orange? or a case of a green apple?
If a majority of the site thinks that every question can have an answer that is "I made a typo", I'm willing to change my behavior.
Some will say that the orange is a green apply. Others will say that it's not. But it's a little tricky to find the blurry border between the orange and the green apple.
Some even say that an answer is an answer if it can answer any one Question, not necessarily the one it's posted under.
00:28
I totally agree that some leeway should be offered.
@IanCampbell not every question; just questions where that's a likely explanation for the problem
@Dharman Some reviewers will vote to delete anything...
It seems like an OK answer in this case...the question is about an error "no module medata found for whatever", and probably the most likely cause of the error is that the module name was wrong
@NobodyNada Undo didn't make that up. The apples guidance was direct from Shog9.
@CodyGray The "wrong answer" image and the actions to take for each type of apple is an addition by Undo
00:31
Ah, I see
OK, message received, I'll leave the typo answer next time.
Where was the typo?
@CodyGray stackoverflow.com/review/low-quality-posts/26739971 question is about an error "module not found"; somebody posted an answer "I misspelled the module"
Also... caveat to all of this... if you're a subject-matter expert who can say that the answer is totally useless and want to delete-vote it on that basis, have at.
00:33
^
Off to dinner. Back later.
@IanCampbell Sorry if I'm coming on too strong, your delete votes are yours to do with as you wish of course
Oh, I wouldn't have referred to that as a "typo answer".
@Dharman Looks like an attempt at one anyways. Not inclined to delete at any rate
@Machavity Yeah, but that is not what the question asked, is it?
It seems more likely a secondary issue and they added it as a relevant comment, because they had that issue when using my answer
00:35
@Dharman yeah, it seems like it probably should have been a comment
However, at first glance it looks to have enough actual information that straight-up deleting doesn't feel right
@NobodyNada Are you sure it is useful?
@Dharman Not entirely, no. But I think it needs downvotes, not deletion
Ok, so we estabilished that it is not an answer, but a comment, and it is also not useful. And yet we decided to keep it?
@RyanM Latest version isn't a medal anymore. I modified it to an actual flag icon, and Sam merged the PR. (also cc @Scratte)
00:39
@Dharman I didn't say it's not useful, I said I didn't know
you're the domain expert, do you believe it's not useful?
@CodyGray I actually did see the flag icon, but assumed it was just not a medal because I didn't get gold
Is it something that should be edited into your answer?
Hmm, is there a better room to discuss a new tag? It's not on topic for this room but I don't see another hangout of such experienced people.
@RyanM Nope. They're all flags now. Nice, eh? Good waste of several hours for me. Now you know why your real flags didn't get handled.
00:41
@NobodyNada If I thought it was important or even a little bit relevant to the topic discussed I would have included it in the answer
The question is simply asking what is the difference between begin_transaction and autocommit=0. That answer says "It didn't work for me because myIsam doesn't support transactions altogether"
@DanielWiddis I don't see why it can't be discussed here, SOCVR "is for support and discussion about reviewing and coordination of site-wide cleanup efforts", and tags would seem to fall into that
OK.... there is no [jpms] tag. It should be an alias for the existing [jigsaw] tag. I am trying to see if that's something I can do myself...
(really, jpms should probably be the tag and jigsaw the alias)
@Dharman fair enough, thanks for the summary. I still don't have enough domain expertise to be comfortable making a judgement, but if I were in your shoes I'd probably flag as NAA after leaving a comment for the benefit of both the answerer & reviewers, something like "this answer is not really relevant to the question because XYZ"
@DanielWiddis 2500 reputation
Oooooh, so close. OK. :)
er. yes. I see I have the power. I shall attempt it!
00:48
Ai, ai, captain.
Meh, I need a 5 score in the tag.
@DanielWiddis You'd have to go to Meta with a for that one
Did the clap feature get removed?
@DanielWiddis you can also do a on Meta
Will do both, thanks.
00:50
@Mcmahoon89 Yes. Was supposed to be taken down 17th, as the data gathering ended that day. Was taken down 1-2 days later.
IIRC you can't really make synonyms without a Meta post anyway, because there's nothing to draw attention to outstanding synonym requests and so they don't usually get voted on
@Andreas thank you for the update. Appreciate it.
@Mcmahoon89 Yes, see update here. It was a day late on getting disabled because the team was otherwise occupied with the election. Team is working on analyzing the data and will be releasing a postmortem on the test soon.
@DanielWiddis If it's the same tag, do both in the same question, please.
I was planning on it.
Np.
Does the data need analyzing?
00:54
Read the linked post
@CodyGray Don't worry; I gave it a downvote the day it was written. ;)
Me too. I read it first, though.
@CodyGray Ehm, yeah...
It was more of a rhetorical question.
@Andreas Then I suppose I should have gone with the snarky response: "Because the data ain't gonna analyze itself"
@CodyGray No, you're too soft for that.
01:05
My first post on Meta. I think I get a badge for that. :)
and I just learned new markdown. thanks cody.
Works in chat, too.
Doesn’t come with autocorrect
01:20
A bizarre one, too, as they accepted an answer and then asked the question again... nope, never mind, I had too many questions open.
@RyanM I think it's the other way around. ;)
@Andreas Whoops, you're right...I got mixed up.
Seems not a duplicate… what am I missing?
@CodyGray It's the original question of their duplication.
I flagged their newer question (duplicate) for "needs details or clarity". Should the questions just be merged instead?
Ok. I just didn’t know where all that code came from. Seemed different. On mobile now, so perhaps that’s limiting my competence.
01:27
Your screen isn't big enough.
True story
But I’m still worried my hand isn’t big enough
Gloves?
Interesting, the merge unaccepted the accepted answer.
@Dharman fixed...errr, by someone else :-|
Yeah, I am against that
Well, it's still unclear, so I'm voting to close regardless.
01:34
"when I wanted to write it in the SO in Spanish it turns out that it does not leave me until after 40 minutes :( I hope they delete that rule" What rule and 40 minutes thing is the question author talking about?
@Andreas probably the one that prevents low-rep users from posting questions across the network too quickly
@NobodyNada Oh. Didn't know such a rule existed.
> Users with < 125 rep on the current site, 40 minutes since their last question anywhere on the network (This applies to the user's IP address, not their account. If the user shares that IP with other users, they can be limited by the other user asking a question anywhere on the network; similarly, if the same user posts a question from a different IP address, they may not be limited.)
@NobodyNada Thanks.
@Andreas Can’t see how that would help. It would just make it harder to use the touchscreen.
@RyanM Because I merged in the opposite direction…
01:42
@CodyGray Yeah, I figured - it makes sense.
it was more of a "huh, yeah, it would do that..." in my head
Oh, I just clicked on that SD report and saw @Machavity deleted. Congratulations on your diamond! :)
@Vega Thanks :)
It looks like it’s been there forever, doesn’t it?
@NobodyNada No problem at all. I am fully prepared to defend my reasoning or revise my position for every moderation action I take.
Seems like I got that one wrong and I appreciate the feedback.
@IanCampbell That’s the spirit.
I think this kind of thing is a gray area, so I wouldn’t say “wrong”
01:58
I'd say my goal is to apply the agreed upon standard, whatever that happens to be.
Which I seemed to have missed the mark on.
Anyway... waffles. Amiright?
I like waffles.
@IanCampbell You let me know when you identify one.
Well, there is disclosure.
Yeah, if it weren't for that I'd have just flagged it spam
02:02
The question does seem to ask about it. Could the question be a seed?
On the other hand, half the answer is dedicated to a completely unnecessary flowery description with a link back to the sites
Without targeting the user, it seems like they make useful contributions otherwise
I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Yeah, that was the conclusion I came to in the end. I flagged it NAA, because it's a link-only answer.
@RyanM the google drive doc is a gamblingtec document, so it seems sort of valid although there is definitely some self promotion going on (it isn't really necessary to mention the fact that it runs on their servers, or link to it). Given that it's effectively a link only answer though surely that means it should be VLQ?
NAA, but yeah.
02:37
@RyanM that doesn't seem to fit this: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/81389/…
@Nick I've been using this as guidance: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/225370/…
@RyanM hmmm... they don't really agree with each other... perhaps one of our moderator ROs could weigh in on the subject?
So, strip the markup and URL, and the part of the answer that isn't promotional fluff becomes "You can find a sample game here: [link] The above link will outline a working OAuth2 process." which contains zero information on how to solve the problem.
Haha, no. This is one of those things where Ian was talking about following consensus, and I jokingly said that he should let us know when he finds it.
That answer doesn't look to me like something that is eligible for a NAA flag. There might be problems with it, but they're not particularly obvious. It seems like an answer, it isn't link-only, it even looks relevant to the question. A mod isn't going to want to delete it in response to a NAA flag.
I think it's great that we all seem to care about applying the rules fairly at least.
02:43
@RyanM agreed - there is no useful content. But it doesn't fit the requirements of the post I linked which has been my bible...
The "answer" is that you need to integrate into the GamblingTec platform. The answer describes what it is and how it works. It says you need to create an OAuth2 process, and it links to an example of how to do it.
@CodyGray I'm actually confused by "it isn't link-only". The first paragraph is completely irrelevant fluff, the second paragraph is "the solution is here:", the third paragraph is a link, and the fourth states that the link outlines the solution to the problem. The only thing that could help at all is the link.
What do you mean "completely irrelevant fluff"? How so?
@CodyGray It more or less restates the question, which asks how to implement an OAuth integration with the GamblingTec platform (the link in the question is to a "GamblingTec Game Integration Document (API)") and then states what that platform is (which surely the OP knows, since they're trying to integrate with it).
That level of analysis is not conducted by moderators when handling NAA flags.
02:51
I actually hadn't clicked the link originally, I just got from composer require gamblingtec/oauth2-gamblingtec that they were trying to integrate with gamblingtec
So...custom flags for this sort of subtly link-only answer in the future? Or should it be reserved for delete-voting?
(this one will Roomba, so I can just retract the flag and let it get deleted, and set a visit to reflag if it's not)
Honestly, I'm not even sure what I'd do with a custom flag. I feel like that level of analysis requires me to know too much about the subject matter. I don't think I'd feel comfortable making the type of judgment that would be required to delete that answer outright.
You obviously can raise a custom flag, and if you provide sufficient justification, you might find a mod willing to handle it. I'd probably punt it, being unsure, so maybe someone else would feel more comfortable. But it's no guarantee.
I have a question. What happens when you review 1000 triage posts? Can you review triage anymore?
You probably get a badge or something
You can, but you'll no longer wish to :D
Ya, I know that. But can you review anymore?
02:56
At no point are you ever prohibited from reviewing posts, unless you hit your daily cap (then it's only for that day) or are suspended.
@JohnDvorak I'll take your word for it :)
or review banned
@CodyGray You mean review banned?
@JohnDvorak Bug report: I've only reviewed 23 posts in Triage, and yet I no longer wish to review any more.
I didn't say you'll want to review before 1k, just that you won't after 1k
02:57
@10Rep Yes. We are renaming review "ban" to review "suspension". It's a more apt name anyway, and I've been trying (although not always succeeding) to use "suspension" for years anyway.
@CodyGray Oh. Suspension sounds crueller, though. I have reviewed 371 posts in Triage, and I kinda like it.
...but also, if your entire account is suspended, you can't review either. Or so I assume, having never had my account suspended.
@10Rep You do in fact get a gold badge. It's very fancy
review vacation
@IanCampbell Part of me wants the badge for completionism's sake, and part of me does not wish to do more Triage. Maybe I'll do 39 more for the Reviewer badge.
03:00
It's going to take me a while to get H&I... I've completed.... 2 tasks?
@sideshowbarker a member of this room once described it as a "system-recommended, four-day review furlough"
A "ban" implies that you did something so bad that you had to be removed and prevented from coming back. A "suspension" is more akin to a "mandated pause."
@10Rep Wait, what? You think suspension sounds crueler than ban?
@RyanM That's correct. An account suspension prevents you from doing everything. (Except, sometimes, chatting, because... caching.)
I had wondered about that last one, having seen a suspended user use chat... of course it's caching.
@RyanM What it really is is the way for us to send you a message informing you that you made an incorrect decision and educate you on how to improve your reviewing skills in the future. There are cases where we truly want to ban someone from reviewing when they've got a long history of making random or horribly unjustified decisions, despite multiple attempts at education/correction, but we'll just suspend those people for 365 days (which is the longest we can go for a review suspension).
Those year-long suspensions are the only ones not meant to be educational.
@RyanM Yeah, you need to refresh the person's chat account with their profile on the main site. Otherwise, it takes around a half hour for it to automatically sync, so if they're already in chat, they're good to go for a little while, unless a mod does a manual account sync.
@RyanM It's simpler than that: "ban" implies permanent; "suspension" implies temporary. Nothing is permanent here, so suspension is always more apt.
@CodyGray thanks for the tag fix. Related question: would it be bad form for me to edit a whole bunch of old questions to add the tag?
@CodyGray does that mean we're renaming q-bans, or that we're not?
@JohnDvorak Hasn't been discussed that I've seen. I think "question block" is the more formal/appropriate term. But meh. It is kind of a permanent ban, with a 6-month forgiveness.
@DanielWiddis Yes, it would be bad form for you to do it all at once. All those edits would bump a zillion questions to the home page, which would be super annoying for anyone who answers questions related to those technologies. But it's OK to do, just spread out the edits so it won't be annoying. A handful of retags per day is fine. Also, when retagging, it's good practice to fix any other obvious problems with the question while you're at it.
03:44
@MikeM. I don't think that's opinion-based, and certainly not primarily opinion-based.
@CodyGray I'm not sure why you're emphasizing primarily, but I would say that it is. We can't know why whoever wrote that example decided to check the RadioButton's state, when the example they've set up does not require it.
Because I think removing "primarily" from the close reason was a mistake, and that we should continue to interpret the reason as if it were there. The only justification for closing a question as "opinion-based" is if it is primarily opinion-based.
I also didn't vote to close because one could re-write the question to ask something useful without really changing the OP's intent.
And I don't think the question requires mind-reading. It doesn't truly want that. It wants to know merely whether this bit of the code has a function that is not obvious to them, and, if so, what it is. That doesn't require any sort of mind reading or Tarot cards. If only requires someone who understands the framework.
I tried to rewrite it...
That's much better than I could have done.
03:53
I don't believe that
It's nothing special; I only changed a few words
Does it still have an open triage review task?
It was never in Triage. It had a close vote review task, but I already booted that. It also had a First Posts review task, but that had already been completed before it was posted in here (obviously).
That might have actually been helped by H&I. It's so interesting how things end up there.
04:15
@CodyGray Fair enough. I read it as them having already established that it works without, and they wanted to know why one particular example is like that. I guess that general type of question is just rubbing me the wrong way, lately, 'cause they're often about irrelevant or trivial stuff.
Meh, it might be trivial or irrelevant; I really couldn't say. But that alone doesn't make it an inappropriate question for Stack Overflow.
Certainly. Just saying that opinion-based and trivial/irrelevant have been going hand-in-hand a lot, lately.
04:30
Also, that documentation example is really strange, I'm probably going to change it to...something else. We shouldn't be recommending the people write the code in that example.
@RyanM Then you would be in a perfect position to write an answer!
@IanCampbell Gonna go with incompetent
Yeah, probably so
almost certainly
06:05
Is this on-topic: stackoverflow.com/q/63027804/578411 given this meta (and a few others about UML)
@rene That wouldn't be on-topic even if this were UML.StackExchange
@CodyGray okay
@CodyGray does your closure reason mean you expect it can be edited into shape by the OP so it becomes on-topic? Or did you just use the reason your mouse pointer was closest to? ;)
@rene I couldn't find the closure reason that says, "This is hopeless. Nobody can make heads or tails of this." So, I picked the next most descriptive one.
I would argue that it is, indeed, lacking on both details and clarity.
Okay, that makes sense.
I can make heads or tails of it, and if I wanted to spend 20 minutes rewriting it, I could probably make it into an on-topic SE.SE post...but I have absolutely no desire to do that, and also this isn't SE.SE.
Is it okay if I downvote a user's questions to have him question-banned, if all his questions deserve a downvote?
don't vote on the user, vote on the content
@oguzismail It is not OK to downvote a user's questions because you think they deserve to be question-banned. However, it is OK to downvote a question if you feel that that question deserves a downvote. As always, the rule is to avoid targeting a specific user; vote on the content itself.
As a general rule: don't find content by going over a users profile. That is mod territory
@oguzismail It's OK to downvote content that deserves a downvote. If that happens to be a single user then so be it but don't let the user themselves be the deciding factor.
06:44
If you think that all of a user's (recent) contributions have been of excessively low quality, you can raise a moderator flag asking us to reach out to that user. I discussed this earlier with Dharman.
Question - Did they repeat their question over an over because else it would only have been code?
@JeanneDark Yes. There is a minimum character requirement designed to force people to explain what they're asking.
Thanks!
I see some helpful soul edited that one before I could nuke it. Lucky.
I did, on one occasion, cast close votes on all of a user's questions because they were all completely incomprehensible and my efforts to guide them to fixing them utterly failed. This was after I'd happened organically across several of them (they posted a bunch of them in a week or so) and decided it would be more efficient to get them all in one fell swoop. They were, of course, all extremely close-worthy: I checked them all.
@oguzismail you should remove that link
06:49
@RyanM Ahh too late
@oguzismail Point is to not try and target the user, e.g., by specifically going through their post history and downvoting everything. That is most likely going to be overturned by the script. However, if you're following new questions from a tag and the user posts many, that's a different thing.
@CodyGray Yeah, that is the moment users forget to format code and the algorithm finds a lot of "text" that really does not have explanation at all xD
"forget" may need air quotes there...
@oguzismail Let's not discuss specific users.
@VLAZ In this case I did go through his question history. Next time I'll raise a mod flag instead
@Makyen right, sorry for the link. It was too late to edit the message
06:52
@oguzismail np. Thanks for keeping it in mind.
@bradbury9 Indeed. Note that, regardless how they do it (adding gibberish or unformatting code), you can and should still vote to close as "needs debugging details" and/or "needs details/clarity". So they're not really bypassing anything, just annoying us.
Regarding the other topic, even as a moderator, I hardly ever moderate users. When I'm going through and dealing with problematic posts, I almost never look at the user card. I legitimately don't know or care who posted it. You should do the same thing when curating content. (Only if I'm actually investing vote fraud or something will I pay attention to the user, which doesn't apply to non-mods, obviously.)
Unsure about this question asking which CPU and GPU to use for specific software. It is detailed and the help center says: "Questions about general computing hardware and software are off-topic for Stack Overflow unless they directly involve tools used primarily for programming. "
The adding gibberish is infuriating and IMHO shows the user does not give a fuck
@bradbury9 Both things imply that...
@JeanneDark Aside from that, recommendation questions like that are off-topic here.
(I should note that in my case, I didn't notice the user themself so much as a very recognizable pattern of similar bad content and clicked one to see if it was all coming from the same place...which it was. I'm certainly not advocating for profile-searching as a general content-moderation practice.)
06:56
@CodyGray I tend to make an exception for plagiarism. I break out the good old fine-tooth comb for that.
@CodyGray Thanks! It was rather detailed so I was not sure if one might argue that, with two options given, an answer might be less opinion-based.
@RobbyCornelissen That's a reasonable exception.
@RobbyCornelissen Yes, that's fine, because in that case, you aren't actually doing anything but looking. The results of your investigation should be passed on directly to moderators in custom flag(s), complete with links to the original source from which the content was plagiarized. You don't need to worry about downvoting in those cases, because we'll delete the whole business.
2
@JeanneDark Yeah, maybe... Let's deal with the exceptions when they actually come up. :-)
That's true
@JeanneDark BTW, for Meta questions, we typically migrate them to Meta anyway, even if we ultimately close them on Meta for being too broad, unclear, etc. In this case, there's a good canonical post on Meta that I can close it as a duplicate of. Not to mention Meta has pretty lower standards for what counts as "too broad" than the main site. (Not criticizing your cv-pls here. Just something to remember for when you gain close-vote privileges. When's that going to be already?!)
07:01
@CodyGray Thanks! I wondered if I should have asked here. I also first thought about using that belongs on MSO close reason, but the question in the title didn't fit the one in the body.
@JeanneDark Yeah... That's why I mention the exception, because that was objectively a terrible question, and we don't normally migrate crap.
Maybe one day I will start qriting answers
You really should! It's a fun thing to do once in a while aside from deleting all the things.
Curious: if a question is migrated to meta and closed as something other than a dupe, does it become a rejected migration like for other migrations, or is that special-cased for a migration from a site to its own meta?
@RyanM Yeah, no. It isn't special-cased. That's a bug, and it exists. See: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/398121/…
07:03
@CodyGray It's easier to find a close-worthy question than an answerable one (except for the obvious typo ones) and even then, other people are so fast.
@JeanneDark I assume you mean "easier"...finding bad questions is, as you've shown, usually quite easy
@JeanneDark Yeah, Fastest Gun In The West (FGITW) has been a problem since the very beginning of SO. Some people care more about speed; others care more about quality. In the long run, a high-quality, detailed, comprehensive answer will be worth more (both in reputation gain and in true value to the knowledge base) than something someone dashed off quickly just to be "frist". I focus on the long, complete answers, rather than the quick and dirty ones. You may be the same way.
@RyanM Yes, thanks! I edited accordingly
Looking at a bit older unanswered questions can be helpful because (A) it gets out of the FGITW rat race, and (B) gets you to a more challenging problem, which you'll learn something from answering and (presumably) enjoy the challenge for the sake of it.
Also, don't be discouraged from answering merely because there's already answer. Especially if it's a FGITW answer, you can probably do everyone a favor by writing a better one. Even if the answer is already accepted, upvotes over the long term are worth more than a one-time accept.
@JeanneDark When I'm in the mood to answer borderline bad questions, I simply paste the code, and click submit, then only after that write some explanatory text and provide more information. That way the timestamp shows you've been first, but the quality of the answer may also be the best
07:09
@CodyGray Thank you! I will keep that in mind. Maybe one day I will browse some questions to look for answerable ones, but currently it's fine just flagging the bad ones.
^^ @Lino That's exactly the description of FGITW. Submit a poorly-formed, almost incomplete answer just to be "frist", then expand it later.
So, I've got a question for the HTML/JS-knowing people here about MCVEs...does it count as an MCVE if it's obvious what the non-desired behavior is when you run the embedded code snippet? stackoverflow.com/q/63028366/208273 (the question that contained repeated pastings earlier has been greatly improved by a passing editor)
@CodyGray Not doing it always, but it seems to be working. And over the time these answers have also stood out the most in comparison to others
@Lino-Votedon'tsayThanks It's technically OK, as long as even your first draft counts as an answer. If it doesn't... well, you're playing with fire. I've been known to red-flag nuke "placeholder"-style answers when I catch them, and derive a ridiculous amount of satisfaction from it.
@CodyGray *The Fastest Nuke in the West* versus *The Fastest Gun in the West*, we'll look who will be winning ;)

(Just kidding)
07:16
A certain CM also hates this with a passion, people who post "placeholder" answers on low-quality questions that they know are going to end up getting closed before they have time to write a real answer.
@RyanM sometimes I see a user post code that quite obviously will not run and throws descriptive errors. I tend to format the code as a snippet and vote to close as a typo in those cases. Sometimes adding a comment to further clarify things.
@CodyGray Well I would hate placeholders too. I myself tend to try to give an answer which in itself is complete, but refine it after posting
@Lino-Votedon'tsayThanks Yeah, and that's fine.
@RyanM To be clear, I wrote the previous message before looking at the question as a more general one. I looked at the question now and I'd not vote to reopen it. It's a trivial mistake that we might have a duple for around but I'd be more inclined to just close as typo and post a comment for it. The issue is that the user is trying to treat an object as if it's an array but it isn't, so the loop doesn't run. No real reason for a full answer there - it's a very minor mistake.
So, it is a proper MCVE, however, the question is still closeable IMO.
It is weird the placeholders thing. I saw yesterday a similar thing: On c# chat someone entered and asked for and edit queue approval on a question. It was on a closed question and the edit was an attempt to reply the question
I suggested the user to try to answer non-closed questions
On the positive side, he tried hard to answer the question, to help others
07:30
@VLAZ That makes sense to me. Thanks for taking a look!
I was about to suggest you comment to that effect to prevent a reopen since it already had a reopen vote from someone (not me), but I see you were already on it :-)
@RyanM Just as a final thing, upon even further review - that question still lacks debugging details because the code tries to access properties that don't exist. It's not exactly clear what should it be getting. I've left a comment pointing at some resources.
I rephrased this so it is not a resource recommendation. It might still be too broad; I don't really know enough about the subject area to say. But, in general, asking "how to do...?" questions are acceptable.
How do you draw the line? Is "How to create an Android app?" too broad? On one hand, it is quite broad...on the other, I could certainly fit "How to make a Hello World app" into an answer in response.
(not a rhetorical question, genuinely curious)
@CodyGray I'm also not an expert there but to me it's borderline answerable. I can accept it being too broad but I think it might also be reasonably scoped. Hopefully, the answer would be "You can do X and Y. Find more here"
@VLAZ Right.
07:35
@RyanM Not sure if SO is the right place for that, a possible answer would simply be: "Follow this tutorial", because you're probably not the first person to want to create an android app
@RyanM Yes, I'd say that's too broad. The basic brightline is anything that would require an entire book to answer is too broad.
@RyanM To me a Hello World for a language would be closeable. There should be plenty of tutorials online for that. However, it's different when it comes to libraries - some are not very well documented, so asking for "how do I do <this> using <that>" is often fine. I've lost count how many times I've found answers on SO when it comes to libraries that really should have documented what I was looking for.
Or worse yet - the documentation they have is wrong and doesn't work.
That is why I noted that I could certainly fit "How to make a Hello World app" into an answer in response - definitely shorter than a book, barely even a blog post. The question about a plugin sounds similar - you could surely write a lot about all the things you could do in a plugin, but (I assume, I'm not an SME) you could probably describe the "Hello world" of plugins in an answer.
@RyanM I'm not sure that's true. Just describing how to set up the development environment would take more than is reasonable in an answer.
Having voted to close that as seeking recommendations I still can't say I would vote to re-open it after the edit. To me it's still very broad. Perhaps not as bad as asking "how do I write a Chrome extension" given the narrow field but could still end up with many different/conflicting/opinion-based answers...
07:43
1. Download Android Studio from this page 2. Install it 3.) Pick your preferred theme and accept the default options (you can remove the emulator image if you're going to use your phone for dev). 4.) Wait for it to download and install, then open. 5) Click "Start a new Android Studio project" 6) Click "Basic Activity" 7) Name your project 8) Click "Finish"
Fits in a chat message :-)
(I think I also lean toward both of these questions being too broad, though I think there's maybe a place for a focused "how do I set up the development for..." canonical)
Perhaps unsurprisingly given how simple those steps are, I've never seen anyone ask that question for Android...usually they just ask how to make the entire app. Setup so far unclear.
^ Huh, jumping in as RO? :)
ROs becoming mods, mods becoming ROs...
The circle of life
Cody just likes to click buttons ...
Is there any other reason to run for mod?
I found out there was a whole other world of buttons that would open up to me. It has not been disappointing.
(Not about the buttons, at least. Other things...)
08:07
This is what I imagine codys decision process looking like: i.sstatic.net/FSWkl.jpg
2
Is it normal for me to have a flag pending for review that dates from Jun 19 ? lol
@IslamElshobokshy Yes, it's a custom moderator flag, which take time to handle. Yours, in particular, is a plagiarism flag, which takes even longer. Custom moderator flags do not age away, so we'll get to them eventually.
Ah great, I was afraid of it aging away as you say, okay then thanks for the answer!
I would've thought (straightforward) plagiarism flags would be the easiest, e.g., ones along the lines of "this entire post is copied from [link]". Click link, ctrl+f, see if it's all there. Of course, I've flagged far more complex plagiarism than that, so I know they're not all that easy.
08:19
@RyanM Yes, that's the lazy approach. The correct approach is for the mod to go through all of the person's answers looking for plagiarism. Most plagiarists aren't one-time offenders.
Ahhhhh, that makes sense.
You end up going down a very deep rabbit hole, meeting the Red Queen, ... It's a whole thing.
Ah, so you either remove one answer for plagia or end up banning a whole account for several offenses?
@CodyGray May it save time if we do this digging ourselves and note the result in the flag description, or do you check yourself anyways?
@janw Yes, that does save time. But then it becomes a question of how much we trust the flagger's thoroughness. Some flaggers are more thorough than others...
08:41
@CodyGray I just love rabbit holes... even though quite often I go in head first...
@gnat What is the need for deleting that so soon after it is closed? It was closed as needing more focus. It is possible that the user could edit it.
^^ It's NAA (flagged it as such) but likely also spam (SD report)
Yeah, hard to distinguish. I also flagged NAA.
probably spam due to the many hits in metasmoke
and the one posted 8hrs ago has exactly the same text
flagged as spam
08:57
Oh, good observation. Need a userscript that shows this as inline information...

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