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2 hours later…
02:37
Error on SO snippet. Any one around to confirm. Error : "HTTP Error 500.30 - ANCM In-Process Start Failure"
@SmokeDetector rude
@Shree Works for me.
Ok thanks. Not sure what happen .
03:03
@Makyen Thanks for the heads-up! I copied that from sopython.com/wiki/Useful_Comments#self-vandalism, so on the off chance that you know who runs that, they might want the same heads-up.
@RyanM The list was last edited in 2017. I get the feeling they are not maintaining it. :;
@RyanM Have you flagged yet. The pattern looks like it needs a moderator.
03:40
@Makyen I flagged now with a link to this comment
04:44
@Nick It appears the format of this request got messed up. It looks like it's only linking to the question which you think should be the dup-target for the one you believe should be closed. I'm going to bin this request. Feel free to re-post a request that links to the question you actually want closed.
05:03
@Makyen yeah, I accidentally pasted the title in where I should have had the URL. Didn't notice until it was too late to edit and then tried to correct with extra messages instead of just reposting. It's still open so I'll repost
1 message moved to SOCVR /dev/null (the other request with formatting issues)
05:21
@Makyen I hadn't, but it looks like Samuel got them, possibly from tripleee's flag.
Based solely on audits, I'm growing increasingly convinced that there are no really bad questions in the Haskell tag, and a lot of good ones. I frequently get Haskell audits, and every single one is a "leave open"
06:44
@RyanM Yeah, their post state is immutable ...
@rene slow clap
bows
 
1 hour later…
08:14
Just checking, is this question well asked? I was thinking of VTCing as "Needs clarity" since to me it reads as "I did something and now something doesn't work". I personally can't answer partly because I don't even know where to start with this. Yet it has two upvotes and a comment praising the question.
08:29
@VLAZ I have no idea what's being asked and even less as to why it now has 3 upvotes...
@VLAZ Well, how could we ever reproduce that. Guess the upvotes are due to being curious about what's going on.
I also flagged the comment as NLN.
At least one commenter thinks it's a well-asked question. I disagree.
CV'd. One to go.
The question has been edited, but it still might be missing critical details.
08:54
So profound.
@Dharman Korean links to an Indian newspaper? Interesting
\o
o/
09:22
I'm on my phone. This won't roomba, will it? stackoverflow.com/q/61907835/2943403
@mickmackusa correct, no roomba, as it has an upvoted and accepted answer
So it never matters how it is closed if there's an upvoted or accepted answer. The mess piles higher.
@mickmackusa yeah, the idea is that the answer has value and we don't want to destroy value. To achieve that the question has to stay.
 
2 hours later…
11:42
@klutt "off topic" alone isn't really a close reason; does it qualify for one of the standard close reasons?
@tripleee Well, it belongs on codereview. It's workning code that he wants feedback on.
then "belongs on XXX" would be a good reason to post here (though sometimes those can be rather debatable; I submitted "opinion based" for this one myself)
just to reiterate, all the close reasons are by some token "off-topic" and we want to be more specific than that
Point taken. I'll think of that.
I tend to format the request as as [tag] Custom (Code Review, any other notes) url
are we allowed to transfer code from codepen to a SO post?
11:56
@double-beep We discussed that here recently - apparently it is discouraged
It is better to get the question author to do it, so the license becomes enforceable.
thanks
(In other words, a third party does not have permission to post on Stack Overflow, as that has the effect of licensing the content in a way the author might not like).
I used to do it myself, but I changed my approach based on advice here.
@halfer I think that any take down notice has be followed up by legal action within a time frame (like 14 days or so), so you don't want your user id on that :)
Gee, sometimes I really miss the "too basic" option stackoverflow.com/questions/61912553/…
@klutt Was there one?
12:09
@Scratte Well, it was one that was "lacks minimal understanding"
@Scratte I'll tell the lawyers Scratte made me do it :=D
!!/blame᠎ ⁠᠎᠎⁣‍⁣‌
@double-beep It's halfer's fault.
@halfer ^
@klutt Ahh.. I read an article about skipping tutorials and going directly to Stack Overflow wasn't preferable for a deeper understanding of programming. But I see them all the time. I just commented on one. Then removed my comment, only to find it in an answer with 2 upvotes and an accept tick ;)
12:12
@double-beep {giggle}
@halfer Even Smokey is on my side :)
12:30
@Scratte Yeah, oh how I love those. I have started to wait until the question is closed before I comment certain things to avoid rep-leeches. Childish? Yes!
:-) I've been smoked!
@Scratte But it's hard to draw the line. Many of my answers have been influenced by comments to a very large degree. And sometimes my answers just happen to say something as a comment I have not even read.
@klutt I just smile. It was a new user at 1 rep. After this they had 36 :) I could have answered it, if I wanted to, so I can't really blame them at all. And they have noway to give attribute since I removed the comment.
@Scratte I don't care that much really. But it's also a matter of not encouraging answering bad questions because that encourages asking bad questions. And it's also the matter that questions with upvoted and accepted answers are much harder to delete.
@klutt The thing that I find difficult to come to terms with the upvote unicorn points on easy answers are the same as on hard answers. I've seen awesome answers with just one or no votes at all. That makes me sad.
@klutt Not sure about that. I think the success of Stack Overflow is the reason for this. If users really learned from the experience of others, they'd know that they could get a score -12 for their Question.. I don't think most of them know. I think they just know that Stack Overflow is the goto place for anything.
12:42
@Scratte Yeah, I know. That makes me sad too. An upvote should mean something more than "it's not wrong". And I have some answers that I definitely deserve some more upvotes, and others that have more upvotes than they deserve.
@Scratte And maybe you're right that it does not really matter because it's the goto place. I don't know. But at least I can do my part to make the questions easier to delete.
@klutt I'm fortunate then. I don't think my answers deserve more upvotes. And a few where I've been tempted to ask "Why the upvote?" :) But I some across answers from the same very few users that always give awesome answers. When I'm bored, I just go directly to the users profile and pick an answer, and I learn something new every time.
Is this "About general computing hardware and software"?
12:57
@Scratte Unclear. In so many levels.
@Scratte Well, I am very biased in my judgements. But I guess it sometimes has to do with that the question didn't deserve all the effort I put in the answer. Here is an answer that I'm pretty proud of with zero votes. :D stackoverflow.com/a/55807634/6699433
@klutt I don't think of it like that. I don't care about the efforts of the questioner, unless it's "it doesn't work". As long as the title fits and there's some minimal explanation so make it understandable, nobody that seeks an answer to a similar question cares about the efforts that went into the question. They care for the answers.
@mickmackusa wait, are we going to be constructive? ;)
4
@mickmackusa Consider also deleting your comments, they appear to be outdated.
Totally out of character, I know.
@rene There's a juicy kind of feeling to SORVR.
@mickmackusa maybe not so much self-congratulation in the *-pls explanation in the future :-)
13:19
@TylerH "I tell you the truth, they have received all the reward they will ever get."
:)
Was it the word "generously" that you didn't like?
Yes, I am slightly irked because either the OP or the answerer (who understood the question) should have edited, but they wham bam thanks latered.
IMO "question was edited for clarity and correctness" was enough for the purpose of [reopen-pls]ing.
@mickmackusa Hmm. Yeah.
Funny how the chat in this room goes from extremely casual to strict without much warning. Hard for me to follow.
@mickmackusa we have always requested that *-pls requests be as objective as possible
Like they say: work hard, party harder.
No wait.
13:27
a reason like "it sucked but I donated my valuable time to make it not suck" is not really objective or nice. Instead, you can say "the question is clear now after I edited it"
 
2 hours later…
14:59
@mickmackusa Good work +1
(That's a virtual +1 here, not an updoot there :-)
Free SOCVR karma?
Karma nom nom
reposting what I just asked in the R room: chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/49426209#49426209
any R people might chime in on that one ^
@rene I'm no R-person, luckily, because there's only one language that I know of that uses <- as assignment operator. The horror.
15:14
@Adriaan :D
@rene I'm not an R person, but the search results for "dwplot" indicate it's an R function. The question either needs a language tag, or to be closed as unclear.
@Adriaan I kind of like it. It makes no sense to me to use =. That just looks like equality too much :) Then they go off inventing things like ==, which just looks like very equal.
@Makyen So we should add a C, S, O, and V to the R question?
@Machavity If the tag fits. :)
@Wolf but isn't it a trivial duplicate?
15:27
@tripleee maybe, depends on what has been tried
@Scratte <- is A) two operators instead of one, B) misuses not one but two operators, C), f(x) = 3*x+4 was how you used to write formulae in high school. R makes no sense whatsoever to me.
@Scratte '0' == 0 is true but can lead to errors
that's why they invented === :-D
it's only a matter of time before they invent ====
@tripleee it's no trivial dup
@Makyen yeah, they re-posted on MSE and my quick search across the SE network didn't return results (as I was using irrelevant search terms). I'll go with your google fu.
15:37
@Wolf it's probably ideal at this point to keep the discussion focused under the comments of the Q rather than discussing it here :-)
@TylerH I was about to put that too, but since I'm not doing javascript, I figured I had better leave it out in case I was mistaken about anything. I anticipated a lot of push-back here if that was the case :)
@Adriaan But I also used to use f(x) -> 0.. blah blah.. but pl/sql uses := for assignments and = for equality. The java compiler is not happy with that kind of syntax :)
15:50
@TylerH Awesome.. that's then very very very equal. Then maybe we can also have <=== as less than or very very equal. =<== will be equal to less than or very equal. I'm going to like the =<>= being really not equal :)
=?= for "maybe equal"
=⌚= sometimes equal
6
heh.. depending on the interpretation of =<>= it could be the same. If it's less than or equal to or greater than or equal to. Then only types matter, but does that even mean anything in javascript?
=🙏= please be equal.
6
lol!.. I'm dying here :)
@rene yeah, that's either R or S. Probably R due readRDS which is base R
15:57
@VLAZ lmao
==== "I will make it equal"
@Braiam okay
@Machavity x ==== 1 if x is not equal to 1 then assign 1 to it.
Amazingly Google returns no results for a quad equals lol
@Machavity symbolhound
16:02
@Machavity that may not work. Use =🔥= to ensure it will work (do it with fire!)
There's an idea. 🔥 as a shorthand null operator
@VLAZ hmm.. we should have something like x ===> 1 as the opposite, if x isn't equal to 1, then assign x to 1. Now they're equal :)
there is always x-->1 - decrease x to 1 :P
that's the wrong way.. if we really want to mess it all up, we need to be able to overload integers
Got you covered. At least in Java.
16:09
@VLAZ lol! Awesome :)
I would say terrifying but I guess that technically "awesome" could mean something that inspires fear.
@VLAZ Not sure it will work after the module addition of Java 9 though. I'll try it out
Yeah, I don't know, either. Put that code in production and check. (note: I do not recommend using this code in production)
The Linux crowd will then ask for =sudo=
@VLAZ At least with a "proper" review in place, there'll be at least 3 of us going down :D
16:14
I want a new language, "C+++" - so you don't need the space between "c" and "p" in this: int c = 2, p = 3, q = c+++ ++p;.
But q = c+++ ++++++++++++++p works (and is well-defined).
The standard should have a definition for sanely defined.
So we'd have well defined, sanely defined, unspecified, and undefined.
16:30
@VLAZ It just gives a warning.. "..snip..Please consider reporting this to the maintainers of ValueMunger..snip.." :)
Great news on the 6-month history decision folks, that gives us some nice leeway. Thank you to meeting participants and whoever hashed it out.
Some good news and some constructive behaviour earlier, I think I am going to have to have a lie-down.
16:44
@Scratte sorry I misled you, in that case.
 
1 hour later…
@Scratte That's not how DMCA takedowns work - the point of them is to avoid legal action in most cases
I officially give up marking anything other than link-only answers and blatant "I'm having this problem too"s NAA. Apparently "Why not to add breakpoints? I think with them you can easily debug your app." is an answer.
@RyanM This one's tricky. The question does talk about debugging practices, so "use breakpoints" could be perceived as an attempt at answering. But meh.
"NAA flag needs to be fixed urgently"? :)
haha
Yeah, it seems to me that it's clearly 1) a question that 2) does not answer the original question, it's just a follow-up question to the OP that's more or less equivalent to my comment of "Why would you expect it to stop without breakpoints?"
@Savior Kinda feel like that dupe target could be reopened, but probably needs some editing first...
18:49
@VLAZ No no.. you didn't. It works, but for Java 9, the first time it accesses the Interger.value is gives a warning :)
@RyanM According to Wikipedia's Notice and take down "If the copyright owner does not bring a lawsuit in district court within 14 days, the service provider is then required to restore the material to its location on its network."
Obviously: "You're re-defining the value of integers". That's a warning. Same level as just just ignoring generics or something. Not "WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING?! NO!"
@VLAZ It's any reflective access to the core of the jdk :) You can get rid of the warning if you start it with --illegal-access=allow if I remember correctly :)
@Scratte That only becomes a requirement once the subscriber, the person who was using the potentially infringing material, files a counter-claim with the online service provider that there was, in fact, no infringement. Then if the original claimant (the entity which filed the original claim with the online service provider that there was something that infringed their copyright) does not file suit within 14 days, the subscriber basically wins and the content must be restored.
@Makyen Thanks. I wasn't actually sure about that part. I read them as separate things :)
19:31
@Scratte np. It's actually a reasonable process, given the constraints. If someone (claimant) certifies to the service provider "that's mine and your subscriber doesn't have the right to use it", then the service provider must remove it. The subscriber must be told and has the opportunity to certify to the service provider "no, I have the right to use it". At that point, it's assumed there's a conflict and that the appropriate place to hash it all out is in court, not with the service provider.
The claimant then has 14 days to file a lawsuit, at which point it's in the courts hands to make any rulings. If a lawsuit isn't filed in that 14 days, then the service provider is required to assume that the subscriber was correct and restore the material. Basically, it a structure for a process which the service provider can follow in order to not have any liability in a lawsuit filed about the material being used on their platform.
Effectively, it's just the preliminaries to the potential actual contest in court, if both parties are willing to take it to the next level.
@Makyen It is a reasonable process, but I don't apply reasonable to legal processes by default :)
@VLAZ I'm more and more impressed with this little piece of code. If they're all permanently changed, then it's impossible to shut down the JVM too, unless it's forcibly terminated.
@Scratte I look at it as very complex code (laws) that run on very slow, potentially malfunctioning, processors (courts), which definitely include PRNG output in a lot of their execution paths. :)
Never tried it myself but it's supposed to be evil. There is an evil C++ code here. Comments on both articles show a bunch of other options.
@VLAZ I put it in production and everyone is very very busy now :)
Well better than having nothing to do, I guess.
@VLAZ That was a joke btw :) I can't be evil like that. I can only be impressed :)
I hoped so :)
@Makyen Yes. I don't like it to be honest. I want the world to be fair.. or rather I want fairness to be applied whenever possible. So, I don't mind when nature isn't fair, but I think that two identical offences should be handled in identical ways.
 
1 hour later…
21:26
@DavidBuck JFYI, the OP seems to have offered to delete their own (previous) question, but then not done so. I have chased them up on the previous one.
I assume that if the dup close goes ahead, the first one will not be deletable.
@DavidBuck Ooh great, the first one is deleted. Can this now be withdrawn?
Yes, certainly. I only raised it here because they said they'd delete one then promptly started engaging other users in comments.
Gotcha, np (I think you have to ask ROs to zap your request here, unless the UI still permits it)
@Scratte +1 to what Makyen said, they beat me to it
it does have some unfortunate side effects, like the fact that IIRC submitting a counter-notice reveals your identity to the claimant
so false DMCA notices are an effective tactic against anonymous posters
there's also little to no penalty for incorrect DMCA notices
@halfer What's the best way of tagging an RO if they're not about?
@DavidBuck I tend to just say "Hey ROs, please delete my request "xxx" above", they've always spotted it.
21:38
@halfer Aha. Technical.
If you are feeling fancy, do a self-answer so it can be found easily.
:-)
Hi ROs, please delete my most recent above, as the OP has deleted their duplicate question.
1 message moved to SOCVR /dev/null, by request
It's just magic, David :=)
I didn't realise RO's appeared "just like magic". It's just like Mr Benn
21:43
@RyanM See.. I really don't like it when things aren't fair. So if anyone claims that my "inventions" are theirs, I have two options: 1. Give them the copyright or 2. Tell them where I live?
@DavidBuck It's just like Mr Bean ;-)
@DavidBuck Thanks for telling us. Another time, please do actually @ping one of the active ROs. You can find a list of ROs on left side of the info page ("info" link is available just under the room tags in the right sidebar). That list is sorted with the most recently active at the top.
I believe you can also say the name of the most recently active RO three times into a mirror...or maybe I'm confusing that with something else...
@RyanM That's what you do if you want to assume our identity for a day, like when someone joins an IRC room and mistypes the /auth command and posts their password in plaintext to the room and then everyone has a field day stealing an operator's identity.
21:50
@DavidBuck Ideally, also actually link to the request you want removed. Doing so makes it easier to find and move (then it's 3 clicks for us to move it), and makes it 100% certain we find the request you're really wanting moved. Without a link, there's always the chance we might get it wrong, or have to ask to verify which request you really mean.
@TylerH You mean when I type out hunter2 it doesn't just show as ******* to you?
How do you reply to your own message? Do you find the id of the message and "hack" the reply?
@Scratte that's how I do it, easiest way is via the permalink
@RyanM It's still a bit tedious, isn't it?
@Scratte 'tis, especially because it clearly doesn't expect that, and so it generates a highlight notification that you need to clear...
21:54
@Scratte But being talkative, I could do this all day :)
But for an RO ping you could just paste the permalink rather than extracting the ID
@Scratte the RO userscript for archiving messages happens to add the 'reply' arrow to all messages, even our own :-)
However, if you are chatting quickly, you could perhaps rely on just decrementing the reply # by 1 and hope no one elsewhere in chat posts a message first :-)
@TylerH I still need the id though. It doesn't display :)
in any room, anywhere on the site :-p
oh actually the dropdown button has a link on it with the ID...
@RyanM Yes. That's included in the permalink, no?
21:58
yeah, but it saves a click to just pull the link off the button itself
@Scratte If you want that feature, feel free to bug me about it. IIRC, I got a bout 90% through breaking that feature out into it's own script, and adding the necessary changes to the popup on other pages.
@Makyen I can't do that. I could try to extract it from the RO Userscript though. But on a cost/benefit analysis, it doesn't seem very urgent, since I don't talk to myself very often.. in chat :)
@Makyen My reason is unfair in my last cv-pls, can you please remove it?
@SotiriosDelimanolis The last one looks like it's closed already. Is that the one you want removed?
@Scratte Perhaps we miscommunicated. I meant that you can bug me about me finishing the work to release the script.
@Makyen Ahh.. yes, but that would be too easy for me :) And I can't know if the last 10% isn't going to take 90% of the total time.
But you decide to do it, then I'm sure everyone will want to know :)
22:08
@Makyen Yes, please. It should still be closed, but that was an unfair request
1 message moved to SOCVR /dev/null, by request.
@Scratte That much of the time for the last 10% is unlikely. It's been a bit since I worked on it, so other than it's basically functional, I'm not remembering what still needed to be done. Oh yeah... I got side-tracked onto writing a general purpose adapter for Greasemonkey grant none compatibility ... and then other fires cropped up. While the GM4 adapter is desirable, it's not really needed. So, no, actually releasing it shouldn't be too bad. That is, IIRC.
@Makyen Other fires being the change of close vote userinterface?
@Scratte Could be. Honestly, I don't remember which one it was. There have been so many. sigh I'd have to look at when the file last changed to figure out which one it was at the time.
@Makyen Please don't do that :) It's not important..
22:36
@Makyen Can you move to null my del-pls request, please? I didn't notice I didn't downvote the answer before checking roomba
1 message moved to SOCVR /dev/null, by request
23:01
@Scratte Option 1 is actually "let them take down your content that they didn't have the right to take down" - they don't actually get any copyright rights - but otherwise, yes.
@RyanM Do I at least get their address too? :)
23:23
@RyanM Yes, but an actually false claim requires committing a crime (perjury), as a take down notice must be certified (signed under penalty of perjury). You can have that prosecuted w/o, necessarily, revealing your identify.
Hi guys! this question may be off-topic here but I thought some one can help me
Is there a chatroom dedicated to gnuplot?
@Makyen unfortunately that's not exactly right...the statement made under penalty of perjury is "that the complaining party is authorized to act on behalf of the owner of an exclusive right that is allegedly infringed." If that is true, but the rest isn't, the notice issuer is liable for damages under section 512(f), but not guilty of perjury, so you'd have to sue them. It's not impossible to sue without revealing your name, but it's more difficult (Roe v. Wade is one prominent example).
23:40
@BAYMAX I don't think so. The closest I can think of is a room for matlab, but I can't say if they think there's any connection between matlab and gnuplot :)
Oh thank you@Scratte, I will try there! cheers.
@BAYMAX It's not called matlab though, but I think it comes up if you do a room search for matlab.
oh no worries@Scratte, I have been in CHATLAB chat room!
Ok. Good luck then :)

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