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2 hours later…
dbc
dbc
02:06
And, vandalized again.
Not really knowing what to do, I raised a custom flag explaining the problem.
Rob
Rob
@dbc Yep, custom flags will be accepted here. We do get automated flags but they are notoriously bad
2
@dbc Moderators should, at some point, get an automatic flag when there are multiple rollbacks. What, exactly, the trip-points are are isn't clear. IMO, a custom flag is good in this situation. However, once you raise the flag, then you should just leave it to moderators (i.e. don't roll it back again, just disengage).
2
ninja'd... sigh :-)
dbc
dbc
@Makyen However, once you raise the flag, then you should just leave it to moderators -- good to know, will do.
02:59
@SamuelLiew Hi, I've just noticed your admin flag on this metasmoke post. Thanks for bringing that to our attention. I'm going to take a look at the reasons that caught that post, since they seem to have an unreasonable amount of overlap, and see if we can improve them so that that sort of post won't be automatically flagged in the future.
However, it is worth noting that the post wouldn't have been flagged according to our recommended accuracy settings (it's reason weight was 215, which is less than the recommended 280), meaning that the users whose accounts were used to flag that post made a conscious decision to reduce the accuracy of the flags being cast via their account, in return for deleting some less-certain-but-majority-still-spam posts faster.
03:12
@angussidney thanks and no problem with that. May I suggest the weights for those three reasons be further lowered in that case?
They aren't strong spam indicators
@SamuelLiew All weights are automatically calculated. They are the %TP which the detection has actually seen. If the weight is 75, then 75% of the posts detected by that reason have been marked TP. The exceptions to this are A) new reasons which which are set to zero weight until they have more than 20 detections; and B) Experimental reasons which are locked at a weight of 1.
I see. Then the issue is that those three reasons are very closely related. If a title consists of mostly punctuation marks, then it is likely the other two gets activated as well. If there are "Repeating characters in title", then "Title has only one unique char" gets activated. Together the combined weights doesn't indicate spam - so one or more of those reasons should be deactivated
@SamuelLiew exactly. We always try to avoid having overlapping reasons since it artificially inflates the reason weights of the common posts. At this stage, it looks like this reason is almost completely a subset of all of the posts caught by this reason, so if further investigation reveals that to be the case, then I will disable the reason.
@SamuelLiew That I don't have much of an argument against. The mostly punctuation marks in title is relatively new. It has the least statistical relevance with only a total of 34 detected posts over the last 9 months.
03:29
thanks for looking into it :)
04:13
@Machavity yeah, cc @Makyen as you are around.
1 message moved to SOCVR /dev/null, by request
Thanks
np. I'm happy to help anytime.
04:33
0
Q: Sometimes to achieve [zen] you must destroy it

StedyWhile doing a review for suggested edits I stumbled upon the zen tag. This appears to be a collection of questions related to a C# framework, a drupal theme, some related to a vs-code-settings theme and some which simply appear to be asking about best practices related to the Zen of Python. Burn...

 
2 hours later…
 
2 hours later…
08:03
Morning o/
o/
08:45
@SmokeDetector What does this fall under? Spam, R/A or other?
Gone with spam, but that's an odd one
Zoe
Zoe
09:27
!!/amiprivileged
@Zoe ╳ You are not a privileged user. Please see the privileges wiki page for information on what privileges are and what is expected of privileged users.
10:29
@Zoe @Makyen double beep username
Zoe
Zoe
oof
v1.6.5 of the script
double beep double beep?
@StephenKennedy beep beep beep beep
Zoe
Zoe
The ZinkZink of Zn is Zinking
@Zoe You can ask the RO team for SD privileges here. In my experience it's worth having it here even if privileged in other rooms (as you are).
Zoe
Zoe
10:42
I don't really need them here, I was just wondering if it worked or not
I saw that rooms.yml has been reconstructed into a format of userid: [network UIDs], was just curious if that meant cross-room privs
Up to you but I prefer to feed back here if my feedback will help other ppl as there are more users here than in SOBotics (e.g. an f on a post which is past the comment deletion window; other ppl then know they don't need to look at it)
@Zoe oh. seems not then
Zoe
Zoe
yeah. Had to check though ^^"
there is the AIM userscript (also suggested: FIRE) with MS, where feedback by other people can be seen
seen in chat?
with AIM, yeah
@StephenKennedy i.sstatic.net/IzzbC.png ?
10:49
oh that's pretty cool
 
1 hour later…
12:05
@Zoe Now the OP's name is printed 4 times.. cc @Makyen
Zoe
Zoe
wait, could that be connected to the amount of posts?
There are answers (two deleted) from the question OP
Zoe
Zoe
Mornoodayvening
@Zoe What's that in UGT?
Zoe
Zoe
@E_net4 Dunno about UGT, but in CUSTARD (Coordinated Universal Sentral Time Around Retrograde DST) it's 0:00 to 23:59:59 at the same time
4
@E_net4 I thought it was the German version of UGT. They like really long words
@NathanOliver Does this Q look Too Broad? Not sure if there's a good C++ how-to Q in there
12:39
@Machavity went with TB
@Machavity That sounds plain impossible. Time-of-flight measurements require large distances or very specialized hardware. Existing positioning solutions based on WiFi or Bluetooth are all relative strength afaik
I want to do impossible stuff, hints pls -> Too broad?
I didn't know it was impossible. TIL C++ has things it can't do. I guess they should use Python instead
I am sure if it is impossible, PHP can do it.
They should try jQuery
"It can't be done", PHP: "Hold my beer"
12:44
PHP: the only programming language that can segfault you without warning. C++ at least warns you in advance.
@JohnDvorak I'm not sure all instances of PHP can warn you, tho. A lot of people still run PHP as an Apache module. It makes diagnosing segfaults much harder. Using PHP-FPM helps
Zoe
Zoe
@Machavity numbers aren't really worth counting though
I can segfault VBA without warning (and have done so on numerous occasions). Doing it without calling external DLLs is somewhat harder but also happens to me sometimes.
I don't think Ruby segfaults even if you FFI into a faulty DLL
12:59
@Nkosi Not true. If it involves UTF-8, PHP will take your word for it that it can't be done and run away screaming
lol
What's a segfault? -- a Rustacean
@E_net4 Basically a memory fault because you are playing with memory you shouldn't be.
@NathanOliver Sorry, I was attempting to make a lame joke.
13:06
It's where Apache crashes and then wishes you the best of luck in figuring out why
But indeed, once dynamic libraries are involved, "tough chance".
wat, why aren't they styled
There's an enter in there, that disables all styling
How can I edit it a second time?
too late now. You only get 2-3 minutes to edit in chat
13:14
@NathanOliver Oh, thanks, sorry for the spam
@HermanTheGermanHesse no worries.
@HermanTheGermanHesse If you run userscripts, we have a handy one that will do the work for you
@Machavity What are user scripts?
Sec. I'm in the FAQ
@HermanTheGermanHesse It's a browser plugin that runs Javascript on your end. We currently recommend TamperMonkey or ViolentMonkey since GreaseMonkey has issues
Zoe
Zoe
TamperMonkey works in most of the major browsers too (AFAIK, ViolentMonkey does as well)
13:27
@Machavity is there a test chatroom where one could learn how to use the script (and Tampermonkey)?
@HermanTheGermanHesse There's no need to learn, per se. Once you install the plugin and the userscript they should just work. Find a closable question and give it a whirl.
Meanwhile, in Brexitville, the government decides the Internet is not really that anonymous
@Machavity All the more reason to use a VPN
@Machavity "We want the UK to be the safest place in the world to be online". If you want to compete with countries like North Korea you'll need to blacklist a whole lot more, but they have a goal at least
13:42
@ErikA If you scroll down to the bottom, a comment noted the rule only applies to sites where 33% or more of the content is adult
Hi all, I have a question about a declined close vote on question. Is this the right place? I wanted to assist in the wrap tag burning. The related meta post says questions with no further use for the community should be voted to close. The OP of the question commented, that he solved his problem by removing the part causing the problem. Why was that wrong?
@coreuter Can you clarify what you mean by "declined"?
@coreuter What reason did you provide for the closure?
@StephenKennedy It went through review and got 3xLeave Open
@StephenKennedy It says my flag was declined in my flag-summary
@NickA Yes but I want to establish if there was a declined flag
question to rest of room: a declined close flag means a moderator got involved?
13:46
@NickA I said off-topic because not reproducable anymore
@Machavity This law yes. The general goal to make the internet in the UK the safest in the world, no. It seems they're unaware that safety has a cost, with regards to privacy, censorship, etc. You should never strive to be at the far end of a spectrum
@coreuter I assume there is a duplicate for that
ah ok, so we can look at this without worrying about upsetting any mod :) thanks @NickA
@StephenKennedy np :) I wasn't sure if it was declined or disputed so was checking anyway
13:47
We don't mind upsetting any mod
3
@Machavity Never trust the Tories with the Internet (or anything really). Thin end of the wedge
no I suppose not @rene, but it's best to be clear what happened before looking at solutions... anyway
@coreuter I think you're correct for flagging for closure. Not sure what reason you used, but it should be closed as Not Reproducible. Unfortunately, reviewers missed that in the comments
@coreuter To clarify if you didn't read our discussion, it was declined because 3 reviewers in the Close Vote queue disagreed that it should be closed (likely from not reading the comments), not because you were necessarily wrong
Boo!
@coreuter The decline is down to the 3 people who voted to leave the question open. Non-repro looks like a reasonable shout to me.
13:53
@Machavity @NickA @Stephen Thank you very much for your responses. I'm still learning how to correctly flag posts and the decline confused me. There is now way to add an info to a flag that the reason for the flag is e.g. something mentioned in comments, right?
@NickA Where can I check a discussion on a close vote?
@coreuter If you got to https://stackoverflow.com/posts/<questionid>/timeline (in this case stackoverflow.com/posts/55630892/timeline), you can see the result of the review
@coreuter You can only add extra info in the case of moderator flags (which should only be used when necessary, not in this case for example)
@NickA Okay, thanks. :)
@coreuter The trick there is to click into the revisions list, then edit /revisions to /timeline in the URL
@Machavity wat, I've always replaced both manually for no reason?! D:
@MichaelDodd There have been a handful of Tories, mostly grandees, who have done as much as anyone - if not more - to argue for or try to find a sensible outcome to the Brexit debacle. Some people claim that such folks were once a majority in that party, but it must have been before I was born.
@Machavity The real trick is to install a userscript and get yourself a timelink link :)
14:02
@StephenKennedy Oh I agree, and likewise towards the end of the Brown Government the Home Office was starting to get quite authoritarian as well, I coulnd't stand Jaqui Smith. I have big respect for Ken Clarke and Dominic Grieve, and Michael Heseltine to a lesser extent. Unfortunately the days of level-headedness are long gone, and having grown up in a community that felt the brunt of Thatcher's policies it's had a long term effect on me.
@coreuter Not when flagging to close, no. You would be better advised to come to this room if you want something closed when there are nuances which the average reviewer might not notice. But please read our FAQ first, and keep requests to a bare minimum until you are able to close vote rather than close flag
@MichaelDodd Yes, those 3, and Sir Oliver Letwin (Clarke is one of my favourite politicians and I've never voted blue in my life). I live in a rural constituency which would elect a donkey with a blue rosette - and the donkey would be an improvement. I lived in nearby Cheltenham for a while which the Lib Dems held for a couple of terms. Labour are irrelevant here, but they do well in Gloucester and the Forest of Dean.
@StephenKennedy My seat(Southampton Test) is reasonably safe Labour, but the other Southampton seat (Southampton Itchen) is one of the biggest marginals in the country, currently a Conservative majority of 31 (thirty-one)
hard to tell if that is f or n
Zoe
Zoe
yeah
14:19
"unclear what your answer is"
or question
@EJoshuaS please stick to prescribed close reasons; homework is not off-topic at Stack Overflow
but homework dump?
@double-beep Too Broad: homework dump would be fine, or homework without attempt, but not the fact that its a homework dump on it's own
@Pie question formatting is garbage - maybe the whole question, though.
Things used to be better when we had an explicit close reason for homework questions
15:16
@double-beep one of the problems is such ineffectual descriptions are almost always used as a smokescreen for the real reason someone wants to close a question: they don't feel the user has put in enough effort. The problem is that's not a close reason, it's a downvote reason.
4
@gparyani IIRC we didn't ever have a homework close reason
we had 'not a real question' and 'lacks minimal understanding'
@TylerH The "lacks minimal understanding" close reason actually more said, "questions asking for code must...have an SSCCE [precursor to MCVE]"
@gparyani small succinct complete code example?
Yes, hence "precursor to MCVE"
Ah "Short, Self Contained, Correct Example"
had to look it up ;p
mcve is much nicer
15:21
@gparyani I'm not so sure, I think the MCVE reason was always distinct from the lacks minimal understanding one
@TylerH No, there were two separate reasons for "asking for problems with code you've written" and "asking us to write code"
fp feedback on autoflagged post: Is there a JavaFX Label only returning the last row [MS]
Autoflagged FP: flagged by @SmokeDetector, @Zoe, @Rob
@TylerH Point #3 in the on-topic guide says that unattempted homework is off-topic.
@EJoshuaS You didn't say unattempted was the point :)
@NickA That's the definition of a homework dump, though, isn't it? :)
15:27
@EJoshuaS Not necessarily to everyone, IIRC it's mostly to ensure we don't appear to be a mob, even if we do review all posts based on their own merits, and not just from what the cv-pls'r says
@gparyani this looks like it's agreeing with me
@EJoshuaS yes, so you can use too broad or unclear; like Nick said, 'hw dump' doesn't describe the issue and looks like it's just a request to close a question because it's asking about homework
that's precisely why we prefer people stick to prescribed close reasons to avoid any ambiguity and other, similar concerns
Pie
Pie
@double-beep i do not understand.
@Pie It's unclear what your Meta question was asking
You seem to be asking if there's some query to find something to do with users and tags but it's hard to understand
Do you mean in SEDE?
I assume they wanted a SEDE query to get the user with the highest rep in each tag (hence pinging rene rofl)
lol
is it just me or does the autcomment link doesnt turn up after voting to close?
or was it because of 1st comment?
15:58
2 messages moved to SOCVR /dev/null, SmokeDetector: already reported.
Pie
Pie
@TylerH it wanted to sort users according to their ranks one user for each top tag. Java jon skeet c# top user is jon skeet. And so on
Zoe
Zoe
huh?
> This question cannot be deleted

This question cannot be deleted because other questions are linked as duplicates of this one.

Those posts must be deleted - or reopened, if they are not truly duplicates - before this question can be deleted.
it's not in its list
you can't vote on it?
@Zoe an infinite loop of duplicates perhaps?
Zoe
Zoe
I don't know
16:08
try again
Zoe
Zoe
@SotiriosDelimanolis I can vote, but it says it can't be deleted (the message above)
Zoe
Zoe
It's fine now
yeah I must have added more from the others and caused a loop
Thanks for linking me to that question; self-closed a really old question of mine as a dupe (@SotiriosDelimanolis please add the other target to that)
Zoe
Zoe
16:11
Kinda ironic for that to happen when one of the dupe targets has "infinite loop" in the title :')
@Zoe told ya
Zoe
Zoe
Yeah ^^"
It's more ironic than rain on your wedding day, for example
(oops, 1990s reference - Alanis Morissette song which listed many "Ironic" things, most of which weren't ironic)
@NathanOliver There's a pending edit, but only to the title
@gparyani FYI: it's not worth editing that out. If it happens after it gets closed it might put it in the reopen queue. No need to polish a turd.
@NathanOliver I'm aware; in fact I just made a rather large post on MSE about it. It was open at the time I suggested; if it gets closed in between, feel free to reject.
16:23
No need to waste your time and the reviews polishing a turd though. It's going to be deleted so it doesn't matter if we leave it like it is.
It's deleted now
16:44
@NathanOliver author comment
@StephenKennedy were any of them ironic?
17:46
@TylerH I ran into Shania Twain the other day. Told her I was a C#/.NET developer. She wasn't impressed.
6
Ran into Mark Twain the other day.
Then realized that I shouldn't drink too much
Zoe
Zoe
@StephenKennedy Was that back in 2002?
18:04
@StephenKennedy Speaking of C#/.NET developers, my dev team just had a meeting with a rep from an independent development company, with the potential goal of outsourcing some of our projects that languish due to understaffing... the only problem is, they're a modern dev company, so they do stuff in Reactjs and MySQL or mongodb and host on AWS, etc.
I'm pretty sure I was the only one on my team who was really even following the guy
I'm stuck on .NET Framework/SQL Server at work too, but I'm learning .NET Core in my spare time (and Docker, Postgres, Kafka, Mongo etc...). I doubt most of my colleagues even know there's a new .csproj format.
@StephenKennedy I think it probably rubbed my manager the wrong way when the rep said they have some devs who know .NET and C# but that they've "moved on to more modern tools like React"
and I would totally understand it, because .NET/C# is not at all a language that isn't used/updated anymore
though webforms is...
I wonder what the rep will take away from the meeting. My manager didn't do himself any favors when he asked "so, is react dot js free?"
I doubt the rep will care, so long as they get the deal!
:45975223 same user as above
18:31
@StephenKennedy probably
$$$
At least he didn't say PHP... :-P
19:12
@Makyen (Magic Editor): I see many people who insert images with ![enter image decription here][1]. Magic Editor doesn't touch them. Would it be possible to make them like [![][1]][1]?
@double-beep Yes. Is that something that you find you're changing quite a bit? If you'd like to see it happen, please add it as an issue on Github.
@Makyen yeah, I see it on most of the posts when retagging in the burns - maybe this is an old way Stack Overflow was importing images?
@double-beep Perhaps. I don't recall.
Zoe
Zoe
They're identical though
Both render the picture, both redirect to imgur
no
the first way doesn't redirect to imgur, does it?
and if it is a small image, then rather than zooming the browser we can zoom in in imgur
19:26
@double-beep Do you have an example? It could be that you're seeing posts that were made by people who don't have unlimited upload/linking rights. New/low rep users can't embed images in the post, so they show up as [desc][1]. The quickest way to fix this is to just put a ! in front of it so you could be seeing people do it that way.
The additional wrapper of brackets isn't really necessary 90% of the time. It's only useful for when the image needs to be expanded to understand.
Hey everyone. I have a question about handling a SO-question. I would like to know where to ask? Should I create a post on meta? is there a specific chat room for this? please help
tell us your question first...
I found a question where the asker is not actually asking what they think they are asking. I answered the question, but now I am unsure whether to edit the question to the actual question so that future visitors could be helped better?
@Makyen one more feature request about Magic Editor (can be implemented directly): replace stdout/stdin/stderr with STDOUT/STDIN/STDERR.
19:33
@AplusKminus Was your answer accepted?
Not yet, I just posted it a couple minutes ago
@double-beep Is that really valid in all situations? That seems like it might be a style choice a reasonable percentage of the time.
@AplusKminus As you have insufficient rep to bypass the suggested edits queue, and your answer hasn't been accepted yet so you can't be 100% sure you know what the original poster was thinking, I'd suggest holding off for now...
Perhaps you can suggest to the OP how they might improve the question and offer to edit it? Then refer to that in your edit summary if they accept.
@StephenKennedy Great idea. I'll leave a comment.
@Makyen hmm.. good question. In Perl, AFAIK, yeah, it is written with capitals - however, I am unsure what is valid in other languages. Actually, I saw a Perl question and suggested that.
19:41
@AplusKminus Another potential gain from doing it that way is if the OP agrees and are online when you edit, they can approve the edit themselves without it even hitting the queue... good luck, let us know how you get on
@double-beep Well, it's not something we would be, nor should be, changing inside code format. If it's intended as code and not in code format, then it's really something that should be edited by the user doing the edit (i.e. change it to all caps and put it in code format).
In C++ it's all lowercase
That's sufficient to indicate we shouldn't have it as an automatic change.
20:03
@double-beep My question now did get answered here, but for the future: Where should I turn with a request like mine?
@AplusKminus drop by and ask it here! IMO it is the appropriate room here. These requests are on-topic here. If you will be redirected to Meta from here, ask a question on meta.
in the meantime, better go to bed
\o
20:46
\o
o/
@AndrasDeak Just FYI: It's not necessary to mention how many more close-votes are needed. Many/most of us use the Unclosed Request Review Script (GitHub) (install), which shows the current status of each request.
Thank you. Is it a problem if I mention it?
FWIW, I don't run any userscripts - my browser is slow enough as it is :=D
20:59
@AndrasDeak That's debatable. I have a vague recollection that there was a desire not to, but on the other hand I also have a recollection of having done so myself on a few occasions. However, the recollections of doing so myself feel like they are from quite some time ago (1.5+ years), prior to the general availability of the version of the URRS script that shows that information.
IIRC, my reasoning at the time was that it would, hopefully, save some people time, in that they wouldn't have to look at it.
@StephenKennedy Was she impressed a little bit? Or maybe impressed, but not much?
@Makyen OK, I'll try to omit that going forward
@halfer Not much - but don't get me wrong, she thought I was alright
@StephenKennedy ah-ah-aaaaah?
(or maybe oh-oh-oooh, I'm not an expert)
@halfer I'm sorry to hear that. I find SO/SE to be much more usable with userscripts. IME, most userscripts don't take much additional processing capability. Not using an excessive amount of processing is something that I try to write and test for when working on the scripts. If you do find they are taking too much processing power, that's something I'd like to know about.
21:04
perhaps the userscripts are just the straw that breaks the camel's back
@StephenKennedy hee hee :-p
@Makyen Nah, it's my 80+ tabs over four browser windows running in a virtualised desktop that does it.
I just upgraded my laptop though, so maybe I should give them another whirl - old habits die hard though :=]
80 tabs? Must try harder!
♪ ♫ ♬ 🎼
@halfer 80 tabs? That really shouldn't cause too much of a slow-down. My main profile has ~350 tabs open at the moment and I have 8 other profiles/"people" open. OTOH, I'm not doing it in a virtualized desktop. In the past, I've had upwards of 1k tabs open at once.
Zoe
Zoe
21:19
Can y'all stop abusing your poor browsers before they go into a union or something? :p
@Zoe The people who make RAM have families to feed you know
I'm at 390 and should decimate them soon
@StephenKennedy funny you should say that, I bought 8 more GB a month or two ago...
Zoe
Zoe
@StephenKennedy I really should get some more xd
And a new battery
@Zoe For you, or the computer?
phrasing
Zoe
Zoe
21:22
And now that I come to think of it, a tiny nuclear reserve generator and an iCellPhoneTowerMini
@StephenKennedy Yes.
21:34
@Makyen Yeah, it's almost certainly VirtualBox that drags it down. I like the security isolation - I feel naked without it these days.
1k tabs is impressive :=/
@halfer Virtualisation fan here too (hence my recent large donation to the RAM industry)
@StephenKennedy I hope you got a nice bag of chips for your donation :-)
3
giggle
Salt and vinegar?
@halfer Looks like, in the past, I've routinely had over 1,500 tabs open at a time. So I've pared that down quite a bit. :-;
21:49
@Makyen Who needs bookmarks, eh? :=)
@halfer Oh, I've got bookmarks... Hmmm.... looks like about 16,500 of them. Admittedly, a significant number have probably suffered from bit-rot a this point. :-)
Does this answer look NAA?
@Machavity also no. more like a downvote/delete candidate than an NAA.
It's not that much worse than some other answers. I blame the question :/
Del voted
22:43
Hi, I just stumbled over stackoverflow.com/questions/55754053/how-to-split-a-list-in-c ... there's a suggestion for a possible duplicate (which matches), but the supposed duplicate is of .. relatively poor quality and has an answer accepted which doesn't actually answer the question (but circumvents the issue at hand). Should this be marked as a duplicate or not?
For reference, here's the older question: stackoverflow.com/questions/26690083/… It also has an answer which is good but that's not the accepted answer.

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