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00:11
@TylerH Glad to see you app
00:37
Sanity check for folks - is stackoverflow.com/q/37570098/1849664 a rec request?
@Undo I'd say so, as the db-specific providers are separate packages (and not necessarily from Microsoft)
and OP is not even sure which NoSQL db they wish to use
Sweet, that’s how I read it too. Wanted to check that there’s not important weirdness in the Core world there.
00:56
Can I use the EF-Core version with MongoDB /Raven or anything?
Seems like there might be a question buried in there, but that's a reason to edit, not to avoid closure.
The answers aren't really treating it like a resource request, as far as I can see.
@CodyGray The accepted answer possibly isn't (as it talks about Microsoft's roadmap). The other two seem to be plugging their wares - one a commercial provider and the other open source.
@Adriaan Forgot to mention I updated the custom SEO reason with a link to that Meta
Coincidentally, I've seen that question before when I was researching EF Core and downvoted it. There might be something useful there but I didn't see it :)
01:12
@StephenKennedy So, is your friend going to nominate themselves to be a RO?
@Machavity He's thinking about it, as he's in the room regularly (and sometimes when no ROs are around) and AFAIK he gets on well with the current team...
but it's not an ambition as such so I he'll see what unfolds and who else puts their hat in the ring, and if necessary try another time.
I'd like to help out, for sure. So, we'll see. You have one excellent candidate already :)
@MikeM. That's odd, the user is greyed out and yet the question was asked within the last houe
01:28
@StephenKennedy Yep, the mods are really on top of those flags, these days, yeah? ;-)
That's certainly true.
02:03
-1
Q: Can we get rid of [database-edition] tag?

JleruOHePThere is this tag - database-edition There are a total of 25 questions tagged like this. And I dont think that this tag is useful in any way. And on top of it - there is no wiki available.

03:02
? re SD: blacklisted user who is a moderator?
What shall I do with my completely, hopelessly wrong answer that OP happened to accept before it was discovered it was wrong?
@Joshua: fix it so that it is now right
I can't. I tried to recall the arithmatic magic required and found I've forgotten it.
Undo must be testing something...
03:04
@HovercraftFullOfEels It's an artifact of testing quite some time ago.
testing on prod is better than dev on prod
Very true. :-)
 
2 hours later…
05:07
\o morning
06:23
@StephenKennedy tell your friend to not hold back when one candidate showed up ....
@Machavity thanks!
Morning \o
@MikeM. TBF it's just a floating image.
06:41
@JohnDvorak Off the top of my head, I can think of half a dozen different ways to do that; simple raster image, scalable vector, custom Drawable as background, foreground overdraw, custom ViewGroup subclass, etc. I consider that too broad, especially when the OP has shown zero effort. I understand if you disagree.
A duplicate vote would have been better. But yes, I agree it deserves to be closed.
Do you know of a decent dupe for that? I've searched for one before when someone's asked that same thing, but I couldn't find any that I considered quality.
I used to have a stash of Javascript dupes but nowadays I just delegate the task to somebody else
 
1 hour later…
08:00
4th one now. Modflagged.
08:44
morning folks
morn'!
o/
\o noon
Mornin' o/
08:50
Umm... how do you get the blacklist reason?
@JonClements Spam on a previous post
At least according to MS
You can click on MS to see: "blacklisted for //stackoverflow.com/a/55396781 (metasmoke.erwaysoftware.com/post/167298) by the metasmoke API"
ahh - it's in metasmoke - never mind - still waking up :)
09:09
@JonClements waking up? At noon?
well.... it was before 10am at the time...? :)
@JonClements oh right, time difference goes the other way on your side of the pond, apologies.
@Adriaan shall I pour you some coffee as well? Seems I'm not the only one in need of it :p
@JonClements had just 750ml; enough to drown a puppy your size, barely a drop in the proverbial Swiss ocean for mine
I'm on my 3rd 500ml mug :)
@Adriaan haha.... I was thinking along the lines of youtube.com/watch?v=Cqd-_fHdTyA
@JonClements but ... what about the other mods? Us plebs can hardly get a flag in already before two mods pile on
@JonClements If you start extinguishing questions fires at that speed, what are we left to do?
09:26
Madara deleted a post yesterday before smokey even got to announce it :(
Oh... it needs more editing - was changing two words... so feel free :p
 
1 hour later…
 
1 hour later…
12:22
Morning
\o
12:31
o/
12:45
Woot. Made it to the top of the last 30 days answerers in C++ again
So you made a C++ on your Stack Overflow quiz?
2
@Dmitry I'll go with that. Reports of something a mod already deleted.
@Machavity I like to think of it as a B--
@NathanOliver Someone's been horsing around on that.
o/ train was late, signal failure at Euston Station
12:52
^ that was a quote from a comedy show I just realised almost nobody here would have heard of :) apologising for missing the o/ train
@Adriaan That user has a similar answer on DBA.SE referencing the same product (here). Spam imo
@StephenKennedy was the show called Southern Rail? (not that Euston is on their turf.. but let's laugh at them anyway)
@Adriaan I went spam. Seems to be promoting a service, even if there's no link
@ErikA at least comment that link then on the answer here, then mods know why
@Machavity Could've been; it didn't read like a service to me, no links etc, hence I wasn't sure. A comment pointing to cross-site spam would've made things cleared. I agree with you now that it is spam
@Adriaan Already nuked :(
12:58
@Adriaan it looks like spam. Google indianareia, it's a website that sells courses
@Dmitry User destroyed so mods agreed
@Machavity Can't Community destroy users automatically in these cases?
@Machavity Huh? User seems fine, but might be caching or something.
@E_net4 No. Mods destroy users. Community deleting it means it can't be undeleted
Okie!
13:02
@ErikA Must be cache
@treyBake haha no. It was "The Rise and Fall of Reginald Perrin"
@StephenKennedy ahh, bit before my time then haha
13:27
@Sam this is not the chatroom you are looking for ...
@Sam Hi Sam, this room is for the moderation of SO content, probably not the best place to ask for specific coding help. Take a look at the FAQ at socvr.org
@Sam Likewise, flooding other chatrooms with the same help request is very likely to have the opposite effect to what you're intending
@MichaelDodd chat spam-flag?
@Adriaan Eh, don't feel it falls under spam in the traditional sense. Up to the discretion of the various ROs I think.
Zoe
Zoe
Ironically, the question is closeable :]
13:31
@Zoe Not with a bounty on it
Zoe
Zoe
A mod flag takes care of that
Though also means they can't delete themselves to get rid of the lost rep :)
@Zoe which someone might or might not already have put on the question
Flag flag flag
Zoe
Zoe
@Adriaan oof, I flagged too
13:33
*coughcoughahem*
@E_net4 you can't fag a deleted post with anything but a custom flag
@Adriaan Sure.
F
o/
@Adriaan awkward typo
What's wrong with home-made cigarettes?
They are toxic. We should strive to keep all toxicity away from SO.
conversion software version, 7.0
@JohnDvorak points to Smoke Detector
14:50
@E_net4 there's more going on that it being a pure typo (He calls a function, which Python needs to have indicated with parentheses, even when called without arguments), but closing as a dupe won't help anyone as a signpost. Agreed with closing as typo
Happy hump day, all o/
15:06
⦦Ϙ
15:39
only POB as it may start a holy crusade of practices
and beat ya to it @FireAlarm xD
16:07
Is it allowed to delv-pls a question an answer of which I've downvoted?
why not?
personal benefit
@JohnDvorak There's no rule against it because we don't know how you've voted. Also Shog9 is OK with it
@JohnDvorak It would be impossible to enforce such a rule as votes are priva... ninjad
True. Thanks.
16:14
@JohnDvorak Now, the opposite is not OK: asking for downvotes in order to qualify something for deletion by either Roomba or manual votes
Mostly because we are not allowed to ask people to up-vote or down-vote anything
@TylerH My understanding is that Shog9 is OK with it
@JohnDvorak Downvote to cast delete votes is ok. Downvoting to trigger Roomba is definitely not OK
@JohnDvorak No, Shog9 is expressly against it. meta.stackoverflow.com/a/307010/2756409
That answer was specifically about retagging
The takeaway is you can't ask someone to , even if it's really just to make something eligible for
@JohnDvorak no it's not. It mentions retagging as one of several possible reasons for downvoting
But blindly downvoting answers to avoid... retagging? That's just wrong. Voting to delete? The number of votes required to delete questions is capped at 10 - but in this case it would've only required three. Triggering automatic deletion?
Emphasis mine
16:20
Examples: Downvoting to Roomba during a burn is very much frowned upon. If OTOH you stumble across an old post which you feel is not useful, you downvote it, and that just happens to trigger Roomba well so be it.
Why would I delvote something that isn't worth downvoting?
@JohnDvorak That's sorta the point Shog was making in the first link Machavity shared
A question's answers can sit at +7 for years, but as soon as they get downvoted to <= 0 the question immediately qualifies for auto-deletion under one or more criteria. No need for 10K privileges, no rationing your delete votes, no concerns about having your name attached to the moderation you're doing
@JohnDvorak On that specific point, I believe it would be normal practice to downvote, and I recall @Makyen pontificating on that
All I'm saying is one cannot make requests for users to downvote or upvote a post, regardless of the motivation for the request.
16:23
It was a burnination where people were using downvotes to trigger deletion
^ that's when mods get annoyed
...and that's how the fight started
:P
All we are saying, is give peace a chance
@Nkosi and then the fire nation attacked
Not being able to request deletion of a post you've downvoted wouldn't make any sense. There's no universe in which you should be requesting deletion of a post that you haven't downvoted.
Votes are meant to be anonymous. There's no way for anyone else to know how you voted.
16:26
^ x2
The problem is when you start coordinating votes, so don't do that. :-)
this is like a plot twist in a movie when you realisze you're the bad guy.
@StephenKennedy IIRC, what I've mostly said (wrt. down-voting in relation to delete-voting) is very similar to what Shog9 says in the answer that was linked earlier: that something which is worth a delete-vote should certainly be worth a down-vote. You might have chosen not to down-vote due to conserving votes and the post was already at a low enough score, but it certainly should be something you feel deserves a down-vote.
which is why we don't allow up/down vote requests in this room ofc :) we can't stop ppl voting how they see fit in private, nor would we wish to and nor could we enforce it
16:30
Frankly, we would prefer that you not disclose how you voted on anything.
4
@Makyen Thanks. Do I also recall you making a statement about del-pls being allowed when a post is 1 downvote away from being eligible, for the same or similar reasons?
@CodyGray +1
I voted SDP-Liberal Alliance in my secondary school's mock general election
One time I voted for a chicken nugget to be my high school mascot.
@StephenKennedy How can you remember that far back into pre-history?
@SterlingArcher Plot-twist: you had to be the chicken nugget
High school mascots are fun
16:31
@StephenKennedy Yes. That is the rule. A del-pls is permitted if the post is 1 down-vote away from being eligible for delete-votes. We'd prefer you wait, but it is permitted.
It would be a good revenge, as I have done some serious damage to the chicken nugget industry
@CodyGray It's one of the strange things about getting older. Events from the 1980s? No problem. What happened last week? Well, you got me there
edited old to older. I'm still a young guy, harumph.
I don't even know how old you are
@SterlingArcher McDonald's anthropomorphic nuggets went to school?
Never been a big fan of those ones. Chik-fil-a has the best
16:35
@SterlingArcher Chik-fil-a's chicken minis are so freaking tasty
The Chick-fil-a nuggets aren't even real nuggets. They contain actual chicken.
Is it poor taste to threaten to turn a moderator into a chicken nugget if they ever bash chick-fil-a ever again?
Asking for a friend, hypothetically
actually it's mostly the bread of the chicken minis
aka it's just honey and sugar
@SterlingArcher you leave madara out of this
@SterlingArcher Yes, a moderator chicken nugget would have a very poor taste
17:14
@CodyGray I'm calling Dr. Lecter just a moment
17:38
@eyllanesc I was about to ask if you felt the code the OP added was a sufficient MCVE. However, I see you've recently added an answer to this question. If you change your mind and choose to answer a question for which you have posted a cv-pls, please ping an RO to have the request removed prior to answering. #15 in the FAQ states that requests on posts in which you're involved are not permitted.
@TylerH I noted they quietly serve chicken nuggets during breakfast hours, for people who don't want Sister Schubert's rolls with a side of nuggets
17:54
cv-p... oh too late
@Machavity but those people are of course Wrong(TM)
@StephenKennedy We're trying to keep pace with how fast mods are handling flags. Try to keep up plzthx
@Makyen Excuse me, I'll keep it in mind.
@eyllanesc np. Thanks.
@ivan_pozdeev please take the tour and read our FAQ, especially How and why do I need to format my cv-pls (and other requests)?
18:09
@ivan_pozdeev You can add another duplicate to the list. Click "edit" in the bottom-right corner of the "Possible duplicate" banner.
You don't need to close and re-open for that.
@Cody you do if you don't have a suitable gold badge :)
@CodyGray @ivan_pozdeev Doesn't have a gold tag badge, so can't edit the duplicate-target list. However, it is possible to get it done by someone else. Pinging the gold badge who hammered it would be a good option.
Oh, I looked at the 20k reputation and assumed...
when you assume you make a ...
assumption
18:15
@ivan_pozdeev Do note that in cases like that where the only person that closed it is the gold badge holder they are pingable in the comments. You can ping them and ask them to change it or add it to the dupe target list.
Sorry, the correct answer is waffle ;)
@NathanOliver I tried, their name didn't come up in tooltip after typing "@P" so I thought I can't. I posted a private mesage to them in chat and got no reply so far.
Yeah, it wont auto complete but you can manually ping them. Remember to strip spaces out of the user name if they have them
@ivan_pozdeev you can ping gold badger who dupe-hammered a question, provided they were the only one voting. Just copy the username, strip spaces and you're set
@Adriaan I voted myself before then but them retracted. So it might break :) anyway...
Thanks @double-beep for the tip. I don't see anything about a wrong duplicate situation in socvr.org/faq . I reckon a gold badger can unilaterally reopen the question and re-close it with a different duplicate. If not, others can help me reopen it, then, you know...
18:21
@ivan_pozdeev autocomplete never works for pinging gold badge holders with the single dupehammer vote, same goes for people who edited the question. You can ping them, but need to copy the name, and strip spaces
@ivan_pozdeev Gold badge holders and moderators can directly edit the list of duplicate-targets. This allows them to add or remove duplicate targets without the need to reopen and reclose the question.
@Makyen so, I need to use something like then ;-)
@double-beep I think this would be a clear candidate for historical lock
@TylerH yeah, maybe I will mod-flag after it will be closed.
18:29
Why do you think that question is too broad? "What are these patterns, and how are they related?" seems like a reasonable question. Don't get distracted by the fact that 3 questions are enumerated. They're really all interrelated.
@ivan_pozdeev We don't have a specific request type for it, but it seems reasonable for us to have one.
In the past, what people have done is post a message asking for a gold-badge holder to make the change. If there's not one around in this room, it's also reasonable to go to a room that's specifically for that tag (e.g. the Python room). I've done that a few times when the action of a gold badge holder was needed (e.g. changing a dup-target, hammering as a dup when there were already multiple close-votes for other reasons).
2
@double-beep LGTM as a canonical, and not subject to obsolescence, but its scope has since moved to programming.SE. So either do nothing or lock IMO.
^ if the above analysis is correct then the conclusion has to be "do nothing"
Is this trolling?
as questions aren't closed on SO just because they're on-scope somewhere else
@EJoshuaS nah
18:34
@EJoshuaS I just slid a delete vote in there. Make the bad ideas go away...
probably a person of tender years rather than a troll imho
@ivan_pozdeev The dup-target has been changed by the gold-badge holder who originally hammered the question closed.
@ivan_pozdeev It's attracting terrible "I have 2 cents to throw in here" answers. It needs to be closed
I hope Ivan likes pings
@CodyGray Look at the answers; they're either just pictures of diagrams or quite lengthy descriptions. The question reads to me as something better tackled by a blog post than a SO question, which is why I personally voted as Too Broad
18:37
Pings are welcoming, right?
In moderation, but there is sometimes a tendency here to pile on/overwhelm :)
@TylerH Interesting. To me, the best Stack Overflow Q&A are indistinguishable from blog posts.
(only bcos ppl are so keen to help)
@CodyGray that's the opposite of what the help center describes, IIRC
It says not to ask chatty, open-ended questions, or where there is no actual problem to be solved.
I mean, there is this: "Your questions should be reasonably scoped. If you can imagine an entire book that answers your question, you’re asking too much." Which may be what you're thinking of.
I guess what I'm saying here is, I don't want this to become a "please debug my code for me" site, where that's the only thing that is on-topic.
3
So maybe that question is bad for reasons I'm not seeing, but I'm currently not seeing them :-)
I half want to make everyone there read this blog first
2
@Machavity You know how to achieve that goal? Write an answer that contains a summary of the important concepts from that blog, and then provide a link to it (along with full attribution to Mr. Ferrara).
Man, Q&A is great.
@CodyGray I don't think it would be a good fit for that particular question (his blog is about why MVC is oversold) but I went ahead and retracted my close vote at any rate
@Machavity I mod flagged the Q to clean up the answers, make top one a wiki, and add a mod note.
18:55
@CodyGray Yeah, that is what I'm thinking of; along with "too broad - if your question could be answered by an entire book, or has many valid answers (but no way to determine which - if any - are correct), then it is probably too broad for our format" from stackoverflow.com/help/closed-questions
@Machavity Referencing your message for context
Maybe it needs one of those "It's good enough" locks instead (like this Q)
19:13
Normally, protect is for such situations, but here, it wasn't enough. I used a warning comment in https://stackoverflow.com/posts/430958/edit , it seems to have worked.

The mod declined to convert top into wiki but cleaned up the answers. I think I'll add a note still. You can mod flag those that add nothing new as duplicates of others, that's valid grounds for answer deletion.
Yeah, I'm really hesitant to lock something and foreclose the possibility for any new answers. Also, the current answers weren't written as a collaborative effort, and so I don't really like the idea of imposing that onto them retroactively. There are several answers there that are useful; it's not like all the effort is concentrated into one currently.
I did delete a couple of answers that looked like garbage.
If you think I missed any, or new ones pop up, they're valid candidates for a flag.
I'm satisfied with that
@double-beep Do you want to bin the CV for that question in light of all this?
When the mod flag queue is short, I guess you don't get a second opinion. :-)
Which is why I'm discussing it here. If someone wants to say, "Cody, WTF?", I'm open to that, as always.
I appreciate you talking out as a peer when you can just use mod tools to put an end to it period
I fear there might be a mutiny if I kick-mute everyone from this room who disagrees with me
19:21
or an empty room? :)
@CodyGray Well Shog9 might laugh at rene being kicked from his own room but somewhere Tim Post would frown
It all got blurry
if only there was a pair of glasses handy
@StephenKennedy I tried the ones from @Bart once, I only got more grumpy ...
cc @Machavity re latest SD
not sure if f or n though
19:24
@StephenKennedy I went NAA since the OP was about that API
Also the owner deleted their own post
you scared them
That's a touch unfortunate. If they'd come back with a post showing how to use the API to achieve the same that would be good.
@rene It's the glasses. They confused me for Cody
Just kick @Cody - he's nothing but trouble anyway :p
Who is he here?
I close the puppy as unclear
19:29
uh oh... ran into the whole punctuation is key thing there didn't I know.
(I was failing at being humorous saying you guys should kick @Cody - as he's nothing but trouble anyway... - failed nicely -1 to the puppy)
Just fetch @JonClements ...
@JonClements Seemed perfectly clear to me, unlike the flower
@rene too busy wearing the cone of shame embarrassment...
:D
@StephenKennedy \o/
19:35
@JonClements I tried to kick him but SO Chat asked me to roll for initiative and I got a 1
20:05
@Nathan to save me looking up the docs - what does "v" mean? ;p
@JonClements vandalism.
@JonClements tp- basically. SD found a thing, and it was right and good, but we don't wanna blacklist either
ahhh... okay issuing a "tp" command automatically issues a blacklist/watch or something?
yes
but afaik if the next post from the same OP gets an fp, they're taken off the list (somebody pse correct me if I'm wrong)
@JonClements tpu (the u is for blacklist) or "k" in shorthand
20:11
umm okies... I should sit down and read the manual some time... (apologies for not having done so already).
@JonClements tp means smokey was right. tpu means smokey was right and blacklist the user. shortcut list: charcoal-se.org/smokey/Commands#silent-mode-and-aliases
you folks are just so good at doing it - I've never had to bother asking what instructions you're sending her because well - it all just works.
Yes, you should read the fantastic manual
I read it every night
20:13
@JonClements same for me
with great power comes a bot that will make you !!/coffee
tbh, I tend to use Rob's excellent "Advanced Flagging" script and then feedback here manually only if it will help other ppl know it's been dealt with or needs attention
I use FIRE myself. No more making comments unless I want to add them to MS
...and for that the only feedback I need to remember is k, f v and occasionally n
I just remember fp or tp (and the -u alternatives)
or k for spam
20:17
k
Our Bot who art in the cloud, Smokey be thy name. Thy reports come. They will be evaluated, in SOCVR as it is in SO. Give us this day our daily chat notifications; and forgive us our mis-clicks, as we forgive those who uknowingly post trash against us; and lead us not into immediately deleting their accounts, but deliver us from spam posts.?
8
@EJoshuaS re "Why do you have methods defined inside of a different method?" - why not?
@StephenKennedy It turns out that the OP forgot a closing brace in this case.
Yeah, I was just curious as to why you thought it bad to have methods within methods
21:13
@EJoshuaS the roomba will get that.
21:24
@NathanOliver True. It's an unusually unanswerable question, though.
 
1 hour later…
23:08
@JonClements amen
23:20
@JonClements segmentation fault.

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