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12:00 AM
 
12:49 AM
:45657853 Not really. We don't have a request type that is warning-pls. Such a request type really doesn't tell us what you are wanting us to do. I'd suggest that you read SOCVR's FAQ. What were you expecting us to do on the question you linked?
 
@Vakore Please don't link things for the purposes of shaming a user. We moderate questions and answers, not users
If something needs a flag, say so
 
1:08 AM
@Makyen See the answer - the OP acknowledged that it was just a typo, so it's of no value to the site even if the OP translates
 
1:18 AM
@EJoshuaS Thanks. I did not catch that when looking at the question/answer originally. Sorry about that. I'm a bit too hair-triggered on the quick-delete issue at the moment and need to tone that down. I will do so. Another time, that the OP has acknowledged that it's a typo would be quite helpful to include in the request reason, as that really does indicate that the all the usefulness of the question/answer is done.
@EJoshuaS BTW: Please don't mention in your request reasons that the reason it's not going to Roomba is that either the question of answer are up-voted. Doing so can be seen as an implicit request to down-vote. You probably had seen those mentioned by the alpha Request Generator. That's my bad. Stating those in requests was removed from the alpha version a while back, to avoid the appearance of making a request to down-vote.
 
2:06 AM
what's the command to tell SmokeDetector it's been handled?
 
@SterlingArcher No need to. If it's a true positive SD knows when it gets deleted. if it's a false positive, flaggers will tell it that
 
Oh very nice
 
In this case autoflags put it over the top
 
@SterlingArcher SD doesn't track if it's been "handled". You just provide feedback that it's a TP = True Positive (is spam/rude/abusive, or otherwise should be blocked if SmokeDetector was implemented as a system level block), or FP = False Positive (not TP), or NAA.
 
2:45 AM
@KenWhite may I suggest something on your comment?
I'm not trying to call you out or anything
 
@SterlingArcher Of course you can.
 
Maybe edit out your last sentence? I can see people flagging it as unwelcoming
As much as I hate saying that
Oh, answer was deleted, so nevermind then.
 
Guys few things
 
@SterlingArcher I see that. I went' to do so, but it was already gone.
 
1. when you see that a situation will become heated, avoid responding. You're wasting your own time.
2
2. when someone posts something very negative about Stack Overflow, don't spend time trying to convince them otherwise. You probably can, but the chances are just too low.
6
 
2:48 AM
But somebody was wrong on the internet
 
Flag those comments as "no longer needed", if warranted and move on.
You can look at a fire and go away, you can look at a fire and call the fire department. But don't go to jump into the fire and say "Whee this is fun!!"
2
You'll just burn yourself out
 
Fair point, but if you don't get into it, and just explain your downvote and move on, is that discouraged?
 
and finally
 
@BhargavRao I wasn't trying to convince otherwise. I was attempting to explain how the site works, and why downvoting wasn't "rude". It's rather frustrating that informing people of how the site works is considered inappropriate now.
 
3. Don't discuss about heated comments in back rooms, there are cases where they've followed up on meta and blown it out of proportion.
@SterlingArcher exactly, don't waste your time because someone else was. That XKCD is there to tell you that.
 
2:51 AM
I didn't know another way to contact Ken 😒 I was just trying to lookout for him
 
@BhargavRao Got it. Thanks for the reminder.
 
@BhargavRao advice accepted and appreciated, I'll do better
 
@SterlingArcher Thanks. I appreciate it.
 
@SterlingArcher don't bother explaining it. If a user is willing to listen, then do by all means. But if someone isn't then don't.
@KenWhite Not that it is inappropriate, but just that you would be burning down yourself, trying to explain it.
 
@KenWhite I don't think he's saying it's rude, but more of a waste of your time. There comes a point where rational attempts at discussion cease
 
2:52 AM
Sorry, I should point out the "wrong on the internet" was just me being silly. It's 11pm on saturday night, and I'm a bit bored
(another joke) in my 8 years on SO I have never gotten burned out from telling people they're wrong lol
 
@Machavity No, the user I commented to said that they didn't ever downvote because it was rude. I posted a comment explaining why that wasn't the case, and how downvoting VLQ or incorrect answers was appropriate.
 
@SterlingArcher it's good that you had Ken's back, when he was correct. Just saying that be careful as certain past incidents have blown up where rooms have ended being frozen for some time.
 
That's troubling to hear :/
I need to remember I come from the land of r17 sometimes
 
@BhargavRao That's what's frustrating. Educating users is unwelcoming, not educating but just downvoting is unwelcoming, any sort of constructive advice is unwelcoming...
 
@KenWhite Few people understand curation, sadly
 
2:56 AM
Ham workers do, and they nailed it.
 
@ken, you're not getting my point. That user was rude at the starting itself. There's no use of informing people how it works, when they are not willing to listen.
Educating users is great, and thank you for doing that.
 
@BhargavRao Point taken. I responded to the latter comment without considering the first. Thanks for pointing out my mistake.
 
Just whenever you see a situation which can blow up, flag the comments and move on.
 
Sometimes our optimism for users gets ahead of us. I try to assume people are open to ... being wrong?
I made myself sad now
 
@KenWhite no worries, glad you understood. Take care of yourself.
 
2:58 AM
@Machavity Sad But True. (I know there are Metallica fans here somewhere.)
 
Users can be frustrating at times, but let's not put ourselves in a position where it affects our mental health.
 
Spending time convincing people who are rude, is hard.
 
@BhargavRao You too. Appreciate your help. :-)
 
We curate knowledge to be flagged and yelled at by people who don't care.
This must be what a librarian feels
 
2:59 AM
#LibrarianAwarenessWeek
;p
 
I think we ran out of awareness weeks
 
@SterlingArcher I get it. I started in Room11 myself. Heck, that was when rlemon still hung out in there
 
There's always more time.
#MoreTimeIsThereAwarenessWeek
 
@Machavity once upon a time, somebody told me in a comment that the JS room gave me thick skin, an uncanny ability to deflect all this material the blogs mention. Things don't offend me, etc
It's been haunting my mind since I read it
As for the second part and your experience, <3, but you are also a regular in the JavaScript chatroom. The people in that chatroom have some of the thickest skin of the whole site and regularly throw around some of the worst language/behavior (at least now that the C++ Lounge is history), and I think that makes y'all a little jaded toward people without that thick skin or those who have, as you say, fragile emotions. — TylerH Apr 30 '18 at 14:28
I haven't been able to get that out of my head.
 
I'm from room6 ...
Lot of diversity here :p
 
3:10 AM
I don't know that I would compare anything to Lounge C++. And it certainly never got this bad
 
Oh that room was weird. Don't even bother comparing.
 
I vividly remember that, we were so excited it wasn't us again.
 
The fact that Lounge is still open after calling out a moderator on Meta amazes me
 
There have been rooms open even after a few users threatening to physically harm moderators. ;p
 
Ironically enough, Madara won the hell out of that war too.
 
3:14 AM
Madara, Joncle, TLM have done heck a lot of stuff in bringing more control during chat fires.
 
I remember before they were mods. Chat was a much messier place
 
You're lucky we've let you get away with this much. I realize this is probably selection bias but it really does seem like y'all are nicer than you need to be. — BSMP Feb 7 '17 at 17:12
 
Madara still puts out my fires to this day
 
(Related to my previous message about threatening mods)
 
That entire meta is a dumpster fire wow
 
3:18 AM
> I'm using their responses here as input in a proposal I'm drafting for new chat guidelines. As the old saying goes: when life gives you lemons, rub them all over and enjoy the sensation.
Shog9 is the same way
 
To be fair, if the situation is running through barbed wire, maybe don't rub yourself in lemons.
 
 
2 hours later…
5:16 AM
Need Gold hammer. Room allow to ping for gold hammer ?????
 
6:12 AM
@Shree Yes, if you actually need it, and the user has said it's OK (i.e. don't do it all the time). You can also have success by asking in a tag-specific room. While I haven't pinged, I've definitely mentioned in the request reason that a hammer is needed, rather than normal close-votes (i.e. too many people have already VtC as something else).
 
6:28 AM
@Makyen thanks .
 
7:28 AM
is it worthy to be closed?
 
Zoe
8:19 AM
I have two or three (I don't remember) mod flags on separate posts containing API keys or passwords and asked for redaction. The flags were marked as helpful, but unlike the previous times I've raised flags like that, no redaction was done on the posts in question. What can I do instead?
 
If flag didn't work, contact us link may help.
 
Zoe
It's probably considerably slower though. At least that's my experience of it... The longer it's up, the more damage is done. But good point though, I'll do that
 
And I think that you have already at least edited that, so that others don't catch sight at the first glance.
 
Zoe
8:37 AM
@Zlytherin I did, yeah. I also specified its present in an earlier revision
 
Cool then
 
@Zoe It may be that it's still in process. Redactions take two moderators. From the fact that you're asking now, it's likely you flagged it during the slowest time, so a second moderator may not have gotten to it yet. The flag was probably marked helpful by the first moderator. Basically, there's no way to know if it's in-process, or if the choice was not to redact.
 
Zoe
@Makyen oh, I thought they could do it single-handedly. Already sent the request though. Still good to know about that ^^
 
9:23 AM
IIRC redaction really removes stuff from the db. You don't want that to be possible by a single click from one user, diamond or not.
 
Zoe
True
 
9:39 AM
Move em to graveyard
 
 
1 hour later…
10:57 AM
\o/ just reached 2.8k yesterday. I'd like to reach 3k rep to help you guys in the close votes as you did :)
4
 
insufficient choices (only 3 while most people want 4) 2019 Community Moderator Election 2019-03-15 20:00:00Z
 
11:20 AM
 
Zoe
@kvantour Don't repost requests - remember rule 13
2
 
Zoe
11:42 AM
is this on-topic? Seems off-topic but I'm not sure on the reason
 
user10976548
@Machavity Ok. I wasn't asking you guys to shame the person, just give an offensive poster a warning.
 
Zoe
@Vakore we don't do that
There's no [tag:warning-pls] for "an immature commenter"
 
??
 
Zoe
@Shree Context
 
(ohhh) thanks.
 
11:51 AM
@Zoe use I am voting to close this questions as off-topic because it should be closed as off-topic
 
Zoe
That's about as descriptive as I'm voting to close this as off-topic because .
With an actual ., that's not meant as a placeholder
 
and then optionally This question is off-topic for this site. You may be able to find better luck on another site of the other 174 in SE. Search them all. (effort is expected from SE users)
xD
 
@Zoe thanks for the reminder. I was not planning to Stab anyone. Just a friendly reminder as some cv-request appear way back in the history of mankind that they might not be picked up anymore by a living being and as such could be overlooked, especially those of posts made in the dark corners of SO. But you made a valid point remembering the rules. Thanks
 
12:06 PM
@kvantour sad thing is we have plenty of rules to remember. We didn't exactly make it easy to get into interaction with this room without obstacles. I'm sorry.
 
12:20 PM
@PearlySpencer unknown close reason: Homework, detected in a request: chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/45660619#45660619
 
Zoe
12:35 PM
@double-beep That sounds a lot like syntax error xD
 
Lol
 
12:49 PM
@Makyen now don't you think that this question is 1) a good dupe signpost, or just 2) unclear no MCVE crap with stupid mistake: stackoverflow.com/questions/55206752/…
Hint: my opinion is 2)
I closed as duplicate because of the answer, BTW.
 
@Shree what comment? Lurking mod must have gotten it
If a comment is noisy, it should go. A lot of times we banter in comments and sometimes that can detract from the Q it self. More leniency for Meta comments, tho
 
1:40 PM
wow, 2 easy flags
 
2:15 PM
@double-beep I was going to sd f this but noticed you'd manually reported it. What am I missing?
 
Nothing spammy to me
 
JIT ...
 
 
1 hour later…
3:51 PM
@kvantour Yes, unfortunately, requests do get less attention once they've had their brief moment visible in the main chat transcript. Once they scroll off the screen, they are definitely less likely to get attention. However, as has been mentioned, we don't bump/repost requests. Reposting requests while the request is still in the transcript isn't permitted. Unactioned cv-pls requests are moved to the Graveyard room after 3 days; del-pls after 7 days.
OTOH, we have a userscript, the Unclosed Request Review Script (GitHub) (install), which makes it significantly more convenient to review unactioned requests.
The jury is still out as to permitting a request to be posted again after it has been moved out of the transcript. Whether or not doing so will be permitted is slated to be a topic at our next Room Meeting.
 
4:21 PM
@Jean-FrançoisFabre That one is a bit more nebulous and requires a judgement call. The dup-target has on the order of about 300 duplicates, which means it should be reasonably well covered. However, a quick Google search of some keywords from this question's title doesn't bring up any of the duplicates of that dup-target in the first few/several hits. Thus, someone thinking along the same lines as the OP won't get to the dup-target without this duplicate.
One of the important features of duplicates is that they help account for the people having the problem thinking about the issue in significantly different ways than we do. Experienced programmers look at that question and think about why the conditions on the if/elif statements aren't working, not the "won't exit" thing. Or, more accurately, they very briefly do, but immediately break the problem down looking for the cause.
Thinking like the people who have such problems is often quite hard, particularly after decades of programming experience, because we've trained ourselves to think differently, and/or just naturally think differently.
Keeping, or not, this duplicate is complicated by the fact that the question does pollute results for those people looking for the actual problem of exiting from a Python function. Ironically, one of those results is someone working on the same homework, who did use int(). OTOH, it shows that the overall task is a common homework question which other students are likely to encounter, so an example this issue is beneficial.
So, overall, I'd keep the duplicate, perhaps with a little editing, but without changing/removing the key wording that already exists. OTOH, perhaps one of the existing duplicates has a similar "won't exit" problem and the key wording could be added to it and this question deleted.
 
5:09 PM
@Zlytherin there is no personal info there actually?
 
Now in edit revisions
And now post has deleted 😅
 
Zoe
5:33 PM
oof, dupes xd
 
5:53 PM
@Makyen personally the title has nothing to do with the bug. OP could also have tried to reduce to a minimal example but did not. I would delete it. But whatever. I'll vote to delete in 2 days.
 
Is it encouraged to leave comments in clearly spam posts?
 
Don't think so, because this may encourage spammer to SPAM SPAM and SPAM.
 
Only leave a comment if you need to explain why spam
 
clearly spam posts won't get read by the spammer anyway, they fire and forget
for a newcomer who might be possible to educate, leaving a comment to point to the promotion help page is par for the course
 
6:06 PM
Excessive promotion of a specific product/resource may be perceived by the community as spam. Take a look at the [help], specially What kind of behavior is expected of users?'s last section: Avoid overt self-promotion. You might also be interested in How to not be a spammer and How do I advertise on Stack Overflow?.
 
Yeah but don't use it on pure/clear spam, that is for user over promoting own stuff on a related question
 
generally for users that have != 1 rep or for those who clearly make a try to answer a question
 
Exactly
 
depends on the post too, it's often pretty clear that "buy my stuff now kthxbye" will never come back whereas a more nuanced newcomer post might come off as promotional but still vaguely salvageable or at least possible to educate
 
6:49 PM
@HovercraftFullOfEels did you design this? xD If yes, I really appreciate that!
 
7:23 PM
@double-beep yes I did, just now. It's a bit smart-assish, but seemed appropriate to the situation
 
@PetterFriberg thanks for the invitation to come by your house, but judging distance it's a bit long from here for a mere weekend. We'd gladly take up your invitation at a later time though!
 
@Jean-FrançoisFabre It's not about the question being a good question, or the title being about the way we think about, or identify, the actual problem. It's about the answers on the dup-target being discoverable by people thinking about their problem in the same way as the OP. As I said, we (experienced programmers) really don't think about the problem(s) in the same way.
The point isn't can we find the solution. It's can everyone with the problem find the solution, including those that are thinking about the problem differently. That's a large part of the reason for duplicates.
Sure, there needs to be some minimal thinking involved in the words used, and the ideas shouldn't be crazy, but in this case I can see why the OP was thinking "won't exit" describes their problem. It's also something that's likely to occur again in a similar situation, due to the overall situation arising from a common homework question.
 
Guys, the mod team has noticed that a few users involved in the burnination, have been downvoting posts in order to trigger roomba. Please stop doing that.
5
 
Thank god. I'm already tired of skipping atlassian questions in the CV queue
 
7:33 PM
@BhargavRao involved in the burnination doing what? I think you ended the message to early
 
Eek, forgot to copy paste the complete message. facepalm
2
 
I've lost all faith in you :P
 
Sleep time issues :'(
 
We all know you don't sleep
 
@BhargavRao whilst I agree with the sentiment, and that downvoting just to trigger a roomba is bad, people can downvote for any odd reasons, including loosing Tim's keys. How can you be sure that they are voting for the roomba, and not the question quality? Especially since any accepted and/or upvoted answer blocks roomba.
 
7:36 PM
SE hooked up those anti-sleep electrical nodes to your head
Day 1 stuff man
 
@Adriaan patterns..
If all your downvotes in a [redacted], are on [redacted], as well as [redacted]... then it is clear that you're downvoting to trigger roomba..
2
(when you become a mod on some SE site, ping me with this message, and I'll clarify the redacted portions)
 
@BhargavRao Is it more than 1 person voting on the same question, or a single person voting on each question?
 
When I visited the atlassian tag, I had all the questions roombable at 1 day, I really didn't understand, I thought Makyen roomba forecaster script was borked
 
@BhargavRao not much chance on that; thanks for clarifying anyway!
 
7:40 PM
@Makyen as of now it seems like there is just 1 person involved.
I've not yet escalated it to the CMs, but if it is reported once more, then I will have to.
@Adriaan you never know. ;p
 
@BhargavRao bicycles are a Dutch thing, perhaps I should try that...
 
It's really annoying that I can't edit out a cuss word in that title because the system says it's a bad title without it
 
or elephants.se
IKR, I tried too.. :p
OP to the rescue though.
 
Now that the title is edited, it's appropriate to flag the comments as obsolete, correct?
 
Yeah
 
7:43 PM
@SterlingArcher not a bad title, a bad title that already exists.
 
@BhargavRao rude?
 
I'm not sure as well..
 
7:45 PM
then let it roomba :)
 
QuickRoomba®
 
that works too
 
Well, deleted now. But I retracted my flag because while it's a bad attempt at humor, it's still a "relevant" answer I guess.
Salvageable.
> It has already been answered, search for it. I don't have time to find the duplicate for you right now though
Would this be considered flaggable? Like you have the time to comment and tell them to search, but not give searchable material?
 
answer is a compilation of 2 above answers. Should we flag as plagiarism? stackoverflow.com/a/55210984/6451573
 
Looks like "thank you" answer
 
8:01 PM
I didn't flag. Just VTD. you're probably right
 
8:25 PM
@SterlingArcher it is not adding much, so an nln flag should be marked helpful IMO.
 
@rene thanks, I definitely agree there
 
when in doubt use a custom flag to explain why the comment can go.
 
so that the decline sounds harsher ;p
 
> Thanks for wasting my time
Love, [moderator]
 
That is the default template
 
8:32 PM
@BhargavRao OK, there's a line in there somewhere. Shog9 has said that groups of people collectively down-voting to Roomba is clearly unacceptable (the Q&A you linked; I very much agree, doing that is very wrong). In particular, it was down-voting content (answers) that didn't deserve down-votes, just to delete a question. OTOH, he's also said that down-voting in order to delete-vote is expected.
A reasonable interpretation of these positions is that if the person is reviewing the question and finds the quality is such that they would down-vote, then it's perfectly acceptable to do so, but not acceptable to down-vote content just to Roomba, even worse to down-vote good or neutral content to Roomba. If down-voting results in the question being eligible for Roomba in a short period, then any other action by the user is superfluous. Similarly, if the user is also curating in other ways.
For instance, if they close-vote, then there isn't a need to also spend a down-vote, particularly in a burnination where closed questions will be deleted; or if the user is going to delete-vote and the post is already eligible. Basically, there's no need to pile on more down-votes.
It's even possible for a huge percentage (potentially, even all) of a person's down-votes in a tag that's being burninated to be ones which affect Roomba status. After all, the people burninating tend to concentrate on the low-hanging fruit (e.g. questions with low score), which means they may be seeing many questions in succession that can be handled by any combination of close-vote or down-vote. Using only one can be seen as judiciously allocating resources.
So, largely, this seems to come down to intent. People shouldn't be seeking out questions to down-vote in order to cause them to Roomba, but if they come across a question in the normal course of reviewing which they would already down-vote due to the quality of the question, then down-voting (and nothing else) seems acceptable. There's a fine line there that's easy to cross. People should be quite careful not to do so and error on the side of not crossing it.
 
8:49 PM
I do agree that if the content is bad and a user downvotes it, then it is not an issue. However, in this case, the pattern was pretty obvious, which is why I brought it up. The issue was that, while the questions were off-topic, the answers weren't bad enough to be downvoted. The posts did not have a single downvote until the burnination.
 
@Adriaan when ever you like, I'm here :)
 
@BhargavRao I did not intend to imply that it shouldn't be brought up. People certainly need reminders about this issue. It's important that they don't step over the line. The specific situation sounds, and sounded, like one which definitely needed to stop. I completely trust your judgement on that, and appreciate the way you did so. Perhaps I'm just too eager to intellectually explore where the line should be.
 
I actually think that the line was pretty well defined in your last message. If the intent is to trigger roomba, then you're probably downvoting for the wrong reasons.
Similar to the serial downvoting line.. It's just the intentions that matter. While a user can say that they're downvoting because that particular other user has "poor quality content", it is kinda very very clear when you see it from the CM perspective.
 
@BhargavRao Thanks. That's consistent with my understanding.
@BhargavRao Yeah, that's usually quite clear. I'd expect that the person down-voting a bunch of the same user's posts within a very short period of time, and doing nothing else, makes the intent quite clear.
 
9:07 PM
Not just that, the CMs check way to many stuff.
Even I'm not sure, but they do a lot of stuff before all invalidating votes.
 
holy text wall batman
 
I'm glad they do. Being thorough in such a situation is important.
@SterlingArcher :-) Need more cv-pls requests? :-)
 
haha I'm almost out of cvs
Too much code. Can't find the bad word
 
@SterlingArcher @SterlingArcher there's your bad word^
although I'd guess the problem is all the bank account statements
 
Oh cool
 
9:17 PM
Hm, that's the only caught word though... Why's that caught?
 
aka this is a false positive?
 
@SterlingArcher no idea, I never asked for feedback privileges. Too much of a responsibility for me.
 
Fake it till you make it? lol
Sort of like how I'm a fake senior dev
 
9:37 PM
@SterlingArcher Definitely a false positive
!!/bisect double d)↵ {↵ bal = d
 
@Makyen Matched by D\W+Bal on line 1299 of bad_keywords.txt
 
9:59 PM
\o
Hey all, lurkin'
 
They see me lurkin', they hatin'....... something something, voting dirty......
 
@Nkosi You've been watching the Brexit debate then? :-p
 
lol
 
Zoe
10:21 PM
wrong window xd
 
10:42 PM
@PraveenKumarPurushothaman whoa, Gordon Linoff VTC'd that. Don't often see CVs from such a high rep user
 
@TylerH That message is not a report.
:45664141 That message is not a report.
 
@EJoshuaS congrats on making it to the top 20 in CVQ reviews
 

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