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12:05 AM
 
I wish I could just delete this highly-upvoted answer instead of just editing a warning into it stackoverflow.com/posts/7833897/revisions
 
@SamuelLiew yeah, great! Also the top answer has a lot of "flame war" discussion in the comments. Flagged one of them
 
 
3 hours later…
4:28 AM
@KenWhite Should it be flagged as spam?
 
5:04 AM
@PetterFriberg can use momentjs for that..
 
 
2 hours later…
6:38 AM
and some pretty weird additional tags to boot
 
 
1 hour later…
7:49 AM
@SurajRao Thanks, I ended up installing a DateValueAccessor this, then importing DatePipe to service and formatting as this.datepipe.transform(this.dt,"yyyy-MM-dd") before sending to rest service, however I'm a bit surprised this stuff is not default in angular 5, according to me the you should have an Date object in angular, let browser do the internationalizzation baaah
 
Latest Q immediately deleted by OP...
 
9:19 AM
Hey guys, should I create a new Meta request for this one?
Situation changed, and my new answer is completely stalled, received +1 score in 3 months -- https://meta.stackoverflow.com/a/354469/1000551
what should I do?
Right now tag is called , which is not true for almost a year
 
I would imagine a new meta question is the way to get things back on track but ... YMMV
 
I'm monitoring tag, retagging 2-3 new questions every day that are tagged with wrong tag
 
your answer really is a separate proposal so yes, it should be proposed separately and voted on
 
@tripleee Ok, thanks for the feedback
 
Meta is even less forgiving than SO, though /-:
5
make sure you make clear how this is related to the earlier discussion and that things have changed
but above all, make it robust against people who only read the title and half of the first sentence
 
9:49 AM
I've voted to close 35+ questions on . They are all off-topic/opinion based, mostly about project management techniques. Please help on closing this, here is the link to Review queue -- stackoverflow.com/review/close/?filter-tags=project-management
 
Ron
o/
 
10:07 AM
@VadimKotov that's got 1.7k questions; do you have a meta request substantiating this, or are you solo-burninating again?
@SmokeDetector html code markdown fail
@Makyen you do user scripts right? The helper script for the CVQ is a bit wonky if you go 2-2-7 (i.e. off-topic:other), if there's already an "other" reason put forward. It says [7] for the reason already provided and [8] for the text dialogue where you can put in your reason, but upon pressing 7 it automatically goes to the text-dialogue, not the already mentioned reason (cc @gunr2171)
 
@Adriaan I'm not removing any tags, just voting to close
 
So two general meta question, but nothing definite...
 
I'm pretty sure if I post a separate request, it will be closed as dupe
I've seen it happening
 
Please don't do this; just follow the burnination process instead of going rogue. Even if it's just CVing; CVing 9 yo posts which haven't been active since then doesn't help anything anyway
 
10:19 AM
@VadimKotov so first answer that one, gain momentum on the request, get it featured etc. Ergo: follow the process
 
@Adriaan Can I flag the request if it has +79 to get it featured?
 
@VadimKotov yes, as that requires +20 (or +25 afaik)
also, what dur said up there ^^ fits the "9 year old, no activity since" requests that were hidden in the project-management CVQ you posted. Bit more circumspicious than directly posting the request, granted, but normally we only vote on old questions if either there is new content (edit/answer) or it's part of an official burnination.
This all to prevent the SOCVR to look like a voting mob
 
@Adriaan why do we have a similar message by @rene pinned/starred then?
18 hours ago, by rene
Please review close votes in the queue for . filtered CVQ
 
Hasn't that been officially featured already?
 
@Adriaan Nope
 
10:26 AM
Anyhow, ask a RO about this for sure. My thoughts on the subject are: don't start burninating without a tag-specific, mod sanctioned meta request. All to prevent the SOCVR from looking like a voting mob.
 
I see what you mean
 
I'm all for burninating tags like agile and project management btb (same for phone manufacturers etc) don't get me wrong, but it's best to follow the official process
 
I think the problem is that those requests have big scores on them (70+), but there are too many tags mentioned in the requests, and it leads to uncertainty. And we can't post separate requests, because it will be closed as dupe.
 
Mhm, worth a meta question that? (Meta-ception!)
 
Maybe
 
10:31 AM
I'd say loose requests are merited, as they can show support for individual tags. Either that, or the multi-tag requests needs a definitive mod-answer saying which tags to burn and which not to burn, which is also a fine distinction.
2
 
BDL
Maybe we should come up with a clear burnation request on meta and close all the other four post as duplicates of this new and combined request
 
@BDL Yeah! It can quickly gain attention. I'd suggest even to create separate burnination request for each major tag. Right now we have only some scope questions. blacklist request for 5+ tags, clean-up requests
 
BDL
Yeah. At the moment all the requests are too fuzzy to be be useful when getting featured
 
@Adriaan @BDL I think this can be featured. It is not vague -- meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/355013/…
 
10:43 AM
@PaulStenne ^^
 
@VadimKotov mhm, the question itself not, no, but the answer mentions a list of other tags as well. You can always try with a modflag though
 
BDL
@VadimKotov: There is a questions that extends the tags in the request. Are they now part of the request or not?
 
@Adriaan Yeah, I mean the question
 
BDL
I mod flagged already. Let's see what happens
 
not the answers
 
10:52 AM
@adiga that title is very misleading.Also the tag
 
@SurajRao I thought OP was asking about homework for children lol
 
11:33 AM
@VadimKotov I assumed you worked on a tag that already went through meta. if that is not the case you nicely tricked me then ...
@gunr2171 if you didn't receive a notification earlier: RO chat is down
 
@rene fixed
 
@SurajRao Heh, sorry, was watching Crash Course
@FOX9000 Raising a moderator flag for that approval
 
@rene Sorry if this caused confusion. I voted for questions though, not
 
12:03 PM
@Adriaan but.. I dont see how that is an answer.. is it a customer support question?
 
@SurajRao no idea, but the answer suggests so, yes
 
Ron
I've linked to my SO profile in my resume. What are your thoughts on that?
 
 
2 hours later…
1:49 PM
@VadimKotov There's no real way to burninate any of the PM tags. Hence why I asked for a blacklist (which is a CM thing and not sure how to get them to do that). Please read the Brad Larson quote in my Meta for why
 
@Machavity but this note is not related to agile, scrum, qa, etc
we can burninate them
 
No, I mean with not encouraging vigilante retagging and cleanup efforts. On that note, I've been planning to feature one of these burninate requests, but the team keeps featuring announcements. There's been a lot of Meta activity lately. Even more posts incoming in the next few days. — Cody Gray ♦ Sep 29 at 15:26
 
@Machavity Sorry, I don't get it. You said we can't burninate tags like , that's true, there are too many questions about IDEs. Why can't we create a request for , feature it and burninate?
 
2:06 PM
@VadimKotov There's a lot of historically good questions there, though. We don't want to remove good content just because it's no longer on-topic. That's why we have historical locks and blacklists
 
@Machavity I see
 
I really wish that there was a way to migrate the old questions - a lot of them are valuable, just off-topic here. It's not that the content is necessarily totally worthless. I suggested adding a way to do that for burnination on Meta, but it wasn't very well received.
I really don't see a way to completely burninate the tags - for most burninations, most of the close-worthy questions are garbage and we have maybe 2 or 3 OT questions that are worth saving, but in this case most of the questions can't be salvaged through editing and a good many of them are OT but not garbage.
 
2:36 PM
@TylerH Any specific reason to close this question from '12 with no recent activity?
 
@ErikvonAsmuth it does have recent activity
It was edited 12 minutes ago, bumping it back up to the front page
 
@TylerH Ah, sorry, missed that
 
FYI (in case anyone else doesn't know this either) each question with recent activity has a handy link at the top right (under the ask date and view count) that tells you when it was last active. You can click that (it's a link) and it will take you to the post that was active :-)
a lot of people know about the element telling when it was last active but a surprising number of people don't realize it's a hyperlink
 
Ah, thanks for teaching me :)
 
3:04 PM
^ also consider rejecting the Everything is Code edit that adds a "thank you".
 
the edit seems to improve the post other than the adding of thanks
 
@TylerH Meh. It still ends up Too Broad, and now all Noun Phrases are Code Blocks for some reason. Plus the "thanks". Feel free to improve rather than reject. Or ignore me entirely, a strategy that's proven successful for many people. :-)
 
@PaulRoub I majorly revised it to remove those all nouns as code blocks too :-)
 
3:35 PM
@NazmulHasan If you want us to look at a question with respect to voting to close, please include [tag:cv-pls] in your message. The basic format is [tag:cv-pls] close reason https://stackoverflow/q/12345. Please see: How and why do I need to format my cv-pls (and other requests)? in our FAQ.
 
user177800
@dur Nope, saw it on my front page. Clearly states on the question "active 3 days ago". So it is a recently active question and it is an exceptionally shitty one as well, especially since it is no where near the current "best practices" and pushes 1998 style programming in 2017.
 
@Floern how about too broad / no mcve?
 
how is a yes/no question too broad?
 
@Floern tb is indeed not OK, I picked no mcve as I assume the OP know their json is broken, if so they should add why they think so, if it is not broken, then the question doesn't make sense, maybe because their code reading that json is broken. which seems backed by their comment: stackoverflow.com/questions/47183475/…
 
3:44 PM
@floern Yes/no questions are often too broad if they're partly opinion based, but in this case no MCVE is more applicable (or a duplicate to how do I validate JSON or something)
 
yea, closed as no mcve as well. I'd say "too localized" would be the best fit here, but...
 
3:57 PM
A deliveryman in Oregon who heard a woman’s screams for help had his wife call 911, but when a deputy showed up it turned out the screamer was a parrot, not a woman.
 
@kayess @Floern @ErikvonAsmuth can you revisit this: stackoverflow.com/q/47183475/578411
 
not with that rollback they just made...
 
@rene If the OP reverts that rollback, then yes, else no
 
le sigh
 
Ron
Lost the entire afternoon on one question.
 
4:11 PM
@rene as @ErikvonAsmuth said
 
yeah, yeah, yeah, I get it
 
Ron
And received two downvotes. Yaaas. Day well spent.
 
@Ron what is the purpose of life?
@Ron you're welcome
in the retry: @kayess @Floern @ErikvonAsmuth can you revisit this: stackoverflow.com/q/47183475/578411
 
Ron
@rene The purpose of life is contributing to SO.
 
check your priorities
 
Ron
4:18 PM
...and brag about SO achievements on LinkedIn.
 
@rene It has my reopen and upvote. Let's hope the OP doesn't roll it all back again, because it seems well-asked now
 
@ErikvonAsmuth thanks, I'm pretty proud of it myself ...
I never thought I would edit an android question into shape ....
I had left comments on the answers here but those were swiftly removed. It didn't occur to me they were rude or abusive. Must have had a mod lurking or so.... I thought they were helpful comments
 
4:38 PM
@rene should that get a reopen vote?
 
@TylerH if you see fit, sure.
 
Ron
Lack of sleep == downvotes. :(
 
The way to broad, asking for external resources, Java EE and Spring comparison: stackoverflow.com/q/47183298/1426227
 
@CássioMazzochiMolin Please prefix your messages requesting close votes with [tag:cv-pls]
alternatively, check out the user script that automates the posting requests here: socvr.org/tools/userscripts
 
@TylerH Thanks for pointing that :)
 
user177800
4:54 PM
check out the comments on this one!

https://stackoverflow.com/a/47183612/177800
 
@Adriaan OK. Thanks for reporting the problem. Please open an issue on GitHub, or I can do so (usually I'm fine with just reporting in SOCVR, but I'm a bit busy right now). I'll look at it. I probably won't get to it until next week, as I have several scripts which need to be updated by Tuesday (for FF57/Greasemonkey 4 on Nov. 14).
 
@Makyen I have no idea how GitHub works, so if you could do that, that'd be wonderful. I don't mind it not working, I'll click by hand for the time being. Thanks for the effort!
 
@Adriaan No problem. I'll open the issue.
 
@Makyen \o/ <3 the new RO
 
@Makyen I added this as issue 110
 
5:06 PM
@PaulRoub Thanks
 
Ron
@PaulRoub How do you open those issues on GitHub? Via web interface or some software?
 
Go here. Click "New Issue" (assuming you've created an account and signed in). Add a title and a description. Voilà.
 
Ron
@PaulRoub Appreciate it.
 
5:40 PM
@rene I decided with a friend that drinking beers after the exam was a good idea; had a 9.1% Bloedbroeder from Kompaan and a 8% Thai Thai from Oedipus before dinner, and now I'm off to karate with my "aangeschoten hasses". That'll be more drunken boxing I guess
 
@Adriaan you'll get hit for sure ... ;)
 
 
@Makyen Added a tentative (partial, anyway) fix: github.com/SO-Close-Vote-Reviewers/UserScripts/pull/111
 
@Compass :The parrot was later found murdered.
 
6:20 PM
@MartinJames On a quick guess: it was the deputy?
 
Ron
I spam recruiters on LinkedIn now. Interesting twist.
 
@Ron Still on the search for a job? I thought you already found one months ago.
 
Ron
@Olaf Domestic jobs I am not interested in.
 
@Olaf If there was a game on TV or a free bar at a cop retirement party, then it's very likely.
 
@MartinJames I mean the parrot.
 
6:33 PM
@Lankymart Note that I posted a cv request for this one already
 
@Ron Maybe you should point OP at the fact we are not a tutoring site and How to Ask. He should clarify his question and show his code (we are not a coding site either).
I agree it is unclear. Maybe he wants two hash-tables pointing to the same set of entries, just for different keys?
 
Ron
7:01 PM
^ one more, really unclear what the question is.
@Olaf I recommended Computer Science SE. The OP migrated the question there. No cross-posting.
Binary nature of computers... Weighs heavy on my shoulders.
 
Hi everyone! o/
 
Ron
o/
 
I've got a question regarding the burnination process: When is "community consensus" reached well enough to start removing the tag in question?
 
7:20 PM
@user0042 when there are lots of upvotes and not much new downvotes during the featured stage and no answers that argue to keep the tag.
Removing a tag starts after a mod tagged the question status-planned
Not before that
 
"lots" meaning like a few dozen votes, at least... not something like 8 or 9
 
@rene So it needs to be tagged as by a mod 1st?
 
yes
 
Hmmm, no more questions in the queue?
 
@rene Thanks, that's not clearly described in the tag info-wiki, or at least I overseen it.
 
7:23 PM
@user0042 only tags with a low number of questions (< 25) can be done without the process that involves the mods
 
@rene Of course I know, that's why I'm asking. I burnt my fingers last time :-P ...
@rene I just double checked, there's no mention about this policy in the buninate info, it just says:
> Your request should reach community consensus, so your question should present enough evidence to support the removal of the tag. For example, include evidence like wrong/ambiguous usage, lack of context, presence of off-topic questions, and statistics about related tags.
That should be clarified there IMO.
 
@user0042 There is a meta describing the process. It takes at least +20 votes to start it and then you have to mod-flag to take it to the next stage (that's how I understand it and it was explained to me few days ago).
 
Also: Should I remove the tag from the question, and add more links for evidence, or ask a new question as plain ?
 
Just finished a prod deployment. Everything didn't break. success!
 
@Olaf The tag info should at least link there.
 
7:33 PM
@user0042 Good point.
 
@gunr2171 Just wait a few hours ;-)
 
in 30 minutes I'm off work, so I don't care ;P
 
@user0042: See the wiki, it does link to that meta
 
@PetterFriberg 5-3 against the Czechs just now \o/
 
@gunr2171 Latest news: World wide flight terminal systems broke down over last night.
 
7:36 PM
@gunr2171 Did anything break?
 
@Olaf Ah! Found it.
 
@user0042 Huh? Did Donald press the wrong button? ("I was just calling for the stewardess")
 
@Olaf No, @gunr2171 put their system update into production.
 
@user0042 You know "!community consensus" is another word for "a mod has to accept it", don't you? ;-)
 
@Olaf Now I know :-P ...
 
7:48 PM
@user0042 Ironically, that's my parent company's business
 
@gunr2171 Aviation??
 
@gunr2171 You didn't change any low level protocol drivers, did you? Just have a nice evening ;-) ...
@gunr2171 I well, know that stuff. Been in a touristic oriented SW providers company decades ago.
 
@Adriaan that's the way you do it! You play the guitar on the MTV
 
8:02 PM
:D, yeah I was writing "That's the way you do it!" and realized it had a continue...
 
@gunr2171 If you are considering to replace LLP drivers, see The Tachygraph. A robust EMP safe communication channel. And generates employment Terry Pratchett laid that out in some of his Disc World novels (lookup "The Clacks").
 
^ see self-answer "This was never solved and I gave up."
 
@SotiriosDelimanolis I flag such comments as "unnecessary". Seems to work.
 
Yeah, did that as well. On a cv-pls request it gives more evidence that the question is useless
 
hi o/
 
8:11 PM
\o
 
o/ (waves left arm intentionally!)
 
@user0042 And I thought you were facing away from me...
 
8:45 PM
@SotiriosDelimanolis That doesn't look like a typo question to me. The OP seems to be having a conceptual problem, and thinks that the class needs to be instantiated before main() is called. Of course they're wrong, and it seems like a silly mistake to make for anyone who knows Java well enough, but that's no reason to close the question.
 
@IlmariKaronen "typo" between quotes to indicate the close reason, as a shortcut. The reason that should be closed is that it was solved in a manner unlikely to help anyone else
 
@SotiriosDelimanolis Not even any other Java beginner with the same misconception?
 
@IlmariKaronen not likely anyone searching for Why is my constructor not running?
 
Should this be migrated to DBA.SE?
 
9:03 PM
@EJoshuaS Possibly. Or closed as "professional system administration".
 
@IlmariKaronen Java beginners who are at the 'I didn't know I had to instantiate an object to get the constructor to run' should not be be asking SO questions. They should be reading 'Java Basics -an Introduction' or 'OO for Dummies'.
 
@EJoshuaS General Computing (OSX)
 
'keep getting the error; "too few arguments in call.". The problem? There were too few arguments in a call. Guess what - upvoted, [sigh]
 
@MartinJames Why don't they just use the do_what_i_want_not_what_i_write statement?
 
@MartinJames 99.9% of all questions on SO could be answered by carefully reading a good introductory programming book. Unfortunately, most people don't do that, or at least don't read carefully enough to notice and internalize the full implications of "main() is a static method". If the find the right search keywords, they may at least find stackoverflow.com/questions/146576/…, but that pretty much requires them to already understand what the problem is.
 
9:17 PM
99.9% of all questions on SO shouldn't have been posted
 
@Olaf it does link there /cc @user0042 ... also now updated the wiki a bit
 
@rene Noticed already, thanks anyway.
2 hours ago, by Olaf
@user0042: See the wiki, it does link to that meta
 
I'm trying to catch up ... sorry ...
 
@rene Ketchup is better than catch up
 
tru dat
 
9:27 PM
good night \o
 
9:48 PM
@IlmariKaronen You are completely right. Just your conclusion is wrong - if you assume we should answer every rubbish question. Btw. it's definitively not only the Java tag, but also for the C tag.
 
@Olaf I don't think every rubbish question should be answered -- certainly the "here's a huge code dump, help me find the error in it" questions are rarely if ever useful to anyone but the asker. [...]
That particular question, however, has a simple MCVE and a fairly clear (though, apparently, not clear enough) problem statement and describes a misunderstanding about the way main() is invoked that surely isn't unique among Java beginners. IMO, it could've become a useful Google result, had it been properly answered instead of being quickly closed.
 
@IlmariKaronen Believe it or not, I don't know Java, never read t abook about it or wrote a single "Hello World" in it. And still I know without reading the comments what the problem is. Any beginner should be able to see the issue himself. Spoon-feeding will not help him anything, so yes, that should better not have been asked. Btw: askers are required to know the language/subject well enough to understand a correct answer. problem here is, the answer is so basic, it is more like a Java/OOP intro.
Such questions show clearly the poster has no real interest in learning, but just wants to finish his course/exam. So why do they take the course at all? Knitting or cooking are also interesting areas of interest.
 
10:04 PM
@Olaf So, just out of curiosity, what do you think the problem is? (IMO, if you say "the OP never calls the constructor", then you've missed the point. The OP never calls main() either, yet it is executed.)
 
@IlmariKaronen The problem with the code is there is never instantiated an object of the class, which during the process calls the constructor. main is special, as every program needs an entry point and that's the Java way (I assume - as I wrote, I don't know Java). That's very basic stuff and every beginner should have learned that with the very first program in every language, including raw Assembler. The actual problem is that OP is not interested in finding out himself.
 
10:21 PM
@Olaf You can get surprisingly far in Java without ever learning what static does, or that it's even possible to call a method without first instantiating an object. If you come from a non-OO background, it's kind of obvious that of course you can do that, but if Java is your first language (and especially if you start with some framework where you don't need to write your own main() function) it's easy to get stuck with the idea that "you need an object to call a method".
 
@IlmariKaronen I don't intend to learn Java. I'm fine with Python, which is way more powerful than Java and still much easier to use.
 
Anyway, how would they "find out for themselves"? A debugger won't help, since it will just show main() getting called, but (obviously) not the non-existent constructor call. And Googling for "why is main() static" or something like that requires you to first realize that the static keyword is what's important here.
 
@IlmariKaronen I'm really not intersted in discussing this further. Just about "how to find out oneself": How did we learn programming without books and all the resource on the internet? Maybe we were smarter than today's students and thought for ourselfves instead of waiting for someone to hammer information into our brains. And that's all to say for now
 
10:39 PM
@Olaf Probably. Back when I started programming (1989 to 1990 or so) we didn't even have the Internet, much less such newfangled things like Google or SO. At least I had the luxury of starting with a modern BASIC dialect that had actual loops and not just GOTO. :) But personally I'm happy to live in the modern era, where knowledge of assembler is strictly optional and Q&A doesn't require snail-mail, even if it might be making the new generation of programmers "softer" than before.
And yeah, I'm happy to agree to disagree and call this discussion done, too.
 
@IlmariKaronen We had such Basic dialects mid 80ies already, e.g. on the Amstrad/Schneider CPC. GFA-BASIC came ab it later (around 1987/88 IIRC). So nothing new. Anyway, I started with Assembler and there were jump instructions apparently. Can't say this is a criterion for/against a programming language. After all learned it from the fundamentals. And that's IMO what is missing today. Too many mouse-pushers who call themselves "programmer".
It has nothing to do with "modern area". Assembler is still used in some areas. I'd not ware the nose too high with Java, etc. One can write good and maintanable code in C for instance (not that I'd promote using Assembler where not necessary, though). And after all, Java is mid-level compared to Python and some other languages.
And it does not make them "softer", but dumber at some level. It is always good to know the foundations and how things work. Without that one cannot be a great programmer. I don't think we need more mediocre coders.
 
@Olaf Oh, with that I fully agree. (I really should take the time to learn x86 assembly properly, for reverse engineering if nothing else, even though it's such an inelegant dialect compared to, say, m68k or ARM.)
 
@IlmariKaronen I don't know x86 Assembler, never needed it and (hopefully) never will. It is one of the worst Assembler languages ever and getting worse with every new generation.
 
10:55 PM
 
x86 is one of the not so widely used architectures.
 
huh?
Unless you mean it's been superseded by x64-86, but x64-86 is x86
 
@Olaf I'd kind of disagree with you about not needing more mediocre coders, though. Or, to be precise, we (as in modern society) clearly do need more and more coders, and unfortunately they cannot all be great.
 
@JohnDvorak No, from devices (or cores) annually sold. It is decades behind other architectures. Even the 8051 arch sells most likely decades more. Add ARM, Coldfire/68K and the various 8 and 16 bit.
 
@Olaf The bash scripters..sorry..software developers don't need mice.
 
11:08 PM
It's nice to say that, in the modern world of ubiquitous computing, everybody should know how to program. But in practice that implies that most people will know how to program poorly, since few will actually have the ability and motivation to become great at it. Just like most people aren't great at math or physics or writing, just to name a few "elementary" subjects that everybody should know.
 
@Olaf You just had to mention that contraption:(
 
@Olaf are you saying nobody buys laptops anymore?
other than macs
 
@MartinJames No, I meant mouse-pushers. If you don't you are not addressed ;-)
 
@IlmariKaronen We need fewer coders and more software developers.
 
@JohnDvorak So? In every PC sold, there are various MCUs already, including the anccient 8048 (deep insider the chipset) and some ARM, DSP, etc. cores. For instance your harddrive or SSD, every USB-stick, Mouse/Trackpad/… has a MCU which is not x86. Often 8051, some 6502 derivates (sic!), 6805 and many more.
 
11:13 PM
If you count every chip, then nVidia wins a landslide
by core
 
And the number of PCs (including Mac) or Smartphones sold is just a joke compared to embedded CPUs: Fridge, Monitors, TV, Routers, Cars (some 10 in small cars to some 100(!) in high-end cars), Toaster, Oven, heating unit, air conditioning, Wall clocks, Train control, Planes (roughly >1000 per plane), etc.
 
1000 MCUs per plane is impressive.
 
Add the devices in the PC: HDDs/SSDs, optical drive, keyboard, mouse, GPU (which are also CPUs, Audio subsystem (DSPs), etc.
@JohnDvorak Rough estimate, summing up CPUs, not just MCUs (although I think there are already >1000 MCUs already). I know there are control units per seat row. But if you have LD-monitors for every seat, there is already a CPU (if not more) inside. How do you think this is all controlled?
 
ARMs?
 
@JohnDvorak Well, if every passenger on a fully-loaded A380 has a phone, kindle and tablet, there are 1000's just lying around in the pax cabin.
 
11:18 PM
I assume an empty airplane
 
@JohnDvorak Not only. ARM and x86 are also the minority compared to the smaller 8 and 16 bit MCUs. Why would one use a larger CPU if there is no need and the software is already written? Such systems have lifetimes of 10-30 years, if not more (just think about newtimers which already had processors).
 
to have a nicer UI? Bam, Android/webview stack and call it a day
 
@JohnDvorak Of course. Just count the number of devices with buttons which can be configured in your house/flat. Most likely each has a CPU of some kind. Subtract the few main CPUs in your PC(s) and Smartphones.
 
@Olaf I wonder it the dev who wrote that 8048 KB software is still getting royaties for it?
 
@JohnDvorak LOL! Nonsense! Bam, and your battery drains in seconds. The device overheats in minutes, the lifetime counts in months, For a plane, it is subject to multiple failures due to SEV at the normal flying height from x-rays, etc. That's a wet dream of the unaware PC programmers.
@MartinJames I don#t think so. After all, it is likely there are various versions written by each mainboard vendor and that was most likely an employee who got his normal pay and that's it. And since many years the device is burried deepest in the chipset. Not even sure if there still is a physical device, could as well be emulated by the system management controller (AFAIK AMD uses an ARM/trustzone core since years).
@MartinJames: That about "we don't need to care about the details anymore". It is always amusing how surprised PC programmers are when I make them think about the number of CPUs in their surrounding. The higher-level language the more astouned they are. It's somewhat like kids when you ask them where the babies come from.
 
11:32 PM
@Olaf Can't be that bad. The cheapo airlines I often use have 'electronic flight bags' for the weather, routing, charts, NOTAMs etc. ON R*****r, the EFB is a bog-standard iPad propped up on top of the autopilot binnacle. Probably some blu-tack to stop it slipping off and jamming behind the throttles:)
 
s/CPUs/MCUs/
 
@MartinJames I didn't talk about the user-displays, but the operation-critical devices. But the built-in display units are also critical with some aspects, mostly power consumption. You just can't get rid of exessive heat in the headrest of the seats and active cooling is not possible either, so you have to care about the power consumption. The EMC is indeed lees of a problem in those devices (but it is in the critical devices).
 
@Olaf ..or bash-scripters, when you ask them where the drivers come from. Then again, developing drivers is way more messy than sex.
 
Anyway, if we ignore the passenger-displays, there are still >1000 CPUs in the larger planes.
@MartinJames I'm not sure. After all, it is not that slippery and glibberish if you do it right (both).
 
@Olaf Oh, I'm sure you're right. One engine management computer has 11.
Oops.. looks like my ISP is acting up again:(
 
11:41 PM
@MartinJames Including the MCUs in the sensors? Modern sensors often have MCUs, even if they output an analog/PWM signal. There are special MCUs which have a ADC to read the sensor value, apply linearisation/etc., filters, etc and a DAC or PWM counter for the output signal. From the outside of the sensor there is no indication there is a MCUs inside, but some allow to program parameters with a special process.
@MartinJames Yes, that's another heap of CPUs at the communication networks. I'm sure alone this is more than the PCs.
 
@Olaf The ones in the planes are, I hope, more reliable:)
 
Anyway, it is a bit annoying when the JS fraction comes up with "oh, we can make this much easier with JS/<current hippest PC/web technology>". That's really supporting the idea they should learn and practice from bottom up, at least C first. As if it isn't as easy to write this in C (or maybe C++). They always forget you have to write the drivers and low-elvel stuff anyway and the logic is normally not really the challenging part in embedded.
@MartinJames They use off-the-shelf devices in pico-/nano-satellites since some years. Well, typically automotive or extended industrial grade, but no special hardened devices. But then, the sats don't live very long.
 
@Olaf No, just the ones in the EMC box. You're probably right that some peripherals are intelligent, or have an 8051, though some have to work in a very silicon-unfriendly environment.
 
@MartinJames There are MCUs with temperatures above 150° (guess the unit!;) Automotive MCUs for the motor controller are -55-125° standard.
Some units in a plane can be heated (the temperatures at 12km heigth are around -55° IIRC)
 
@Olaf Well, it can be -70 in the cold bits, and 1900 in the hot bits.
 
11:52 PM
And I'm not sure there are no non-silicon semiconductors. AFAIR there are some which can stand much higher temperatures.
@MartinJames Yes, I didn't talk about those parts, of course. For low-temperatures there are typically small heating units.
For the pico-sat I designed some years ago, we had extended industrial in mind with a heating option.
 
@Olaf Yes, there is a heater in the 'box', though, of course, the chips provide some heat when powered up, and it's only -70 when it's powered up.
 
Check the temp-range
 
@Olaf Yup, 55/225, first thing I looked at:)
 

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