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There's still a number of php functions that are still procedural, which could be OOP.
procedural isn't by and of itself bad
No, but a lot more could benefit from being OOP.
you speak of things like the date() functions, which still accept the procedural style?
More like the session_* functions.
05:05
you are very right :) there is a flamy rfc in progress to actually improve that
There was also that magic quotes thing... Hard to forget that.
@FélixGagnon-Grenier I took this great thing from codecanyon with PHP in OOP and made this wonderful thing out of it. Data thing. I detest PHP programming mind you. But the effort to duplicate that in another environment yikes.
cost me 30 bucks
used it for 5 years
don't get me wrong: of course there are things that can and will be improved in php. but the oop turn with all that can be made with it lately, really changes the table. and as much as there are things that can be made really bad while using wrong ways, there is often a clean and future-proof way to make things
user3956566
afk
I mean, php drags a heavy backward compatible part of the web. Which kinda limits the aggressive moves that can be made
just getting rid of mysql_* extension takes forever
and the language, with it's "ease of use", is completely responsible for that
but, one can rally make architurally solid things with it, also.
05:10
Magic quotes led to this: core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/18322, now WordPress is re-adding the obsolete magic quotes.
people have no clue about performance. PHP is a real dog. So too is python. But ask anyone about performance: seems good
I deliver to you Undo (python) and cimm (postgresql) to that discussion. They simply never profile anything.
please don't let your opinion of php be tainted by the likes of wordpress
@FélixGagnon-Grenier Oh, I've got a list of stupid things I hate about WordPress. Some of them still around from PHP4 era.
oh, that's why :p
I just love how the WP nav menu function outputs radically different HTML, depending on if the user setup a custom menu or not. Always fun to style.
05:16
until now, I've had the knack of convincing clients that the extra money they would be paying me for building the architecture of their site would be better spent than the nightmare from using frameworks like wp
am I the only one to think that we still should have more close votes than reviews?
When was the last time any of you profiled any of your code and ponderrf, geez, how could it be faster??
that is all I do
@Drew It's not too slow until it's a problem, so not often. But I don't usually write inefficient code to begin with.
@Drew about 3 working hours ago.
that is a problem Batman
How many of you are testing/have tested your software on Windows XP because some important customers still use it and you are forced to maintain compatibility?
05:25
I will shamefully side with Alex. I don't really have the kind of traffic that justifies heavy profiling and optimization. proper mysql indexes really are the things that save time
@WaiHaLee I compromise and say fuck off to those clients. I don't really need their money
I like to think I architect most thing in the most-efficient way in the first place.
All I do is make it faster. I get hired to fire people. There, I said it.
Micro-optimizations from bench-marking small differences in code isn't worth the time, and is often a moving target, unless it's assembly or something.
@FélixGagnon-Grenier Sadly I'm not important enough to make those decisions. :/
I'm self-employed^^
05:28
That makes it a bit easier. I'm 3 levels of management away from those types of decision.
....... quit everything? I mean, I hope you'll get there fast :)
At one point, JavaScript Math.abs used to be faster if you aliased the function, like mathAbs = Math.abs, and both were slower than num < 0 ? -num : num;. Now it's either insignificant or the reverse, depending on the browser.
@FélixGagnon-Grenier Me too. :)
@Drew I'd be honored if someday I'd get in a position where you'd fire me. there, I've said it.
When was the last time anyone profiled?
05:32
bzzzzzz
hey, I think I catched a fly
I would fall off my chair if in 2016
@JonClements You're clementine
The fruit
:D
A couple hours ago, I checked up on the database load for a request to my OAuth2 server.
@Magisch thanks :)
05:34
I am telling you here no one know what time anything costs
@Drew that being said, shouldn't profiling be part of the after-writing of an application?
unless obvious this can't take three minutes clicks
how to leverage against premature optimization?
@FélixGagnon-Grenier this is not bragging rights on my part. I don't get paid for it. Developers generally have no clue
I would say performance is 50% using the correct algorithm, and 49% only loading what you need.
yeah but you dont know that. You torture your users
there is no testing
@Drew I'm plenty confident you have what it takes to back up what you are saying :). what I'm asking is how to actually manage to introduce profiling in a non too obtrusive manner in the real life part of coding things, so we can eat
05:38
Hey everyone
@AlexanderO'Mara when was the last time you thought " geez this is slow "\
@Closey stats
8519 need review
652 reviews today
3169162 reviews all-time
05:39
but the reason is clear: I'm calling vimeo api six times before the server responds
@Drew Uhh, without going into details, attempting to brute force something through the LLDB debugger.
@AlexanderO'Mara it's an ever=ending quest
@Drew I got much better performance when I copied out the relevant subroutine ASM, and linked it to my own binary.
developers don't think like that. They code they deliver
@AlexanderO'Mara And that is great Batman. People generally do not do that
Even then it was slow, but that's because the key space was larger then I initially estimated.
05:43
I was hell-bent on this thing recently. I was so confused why it took so long. It was the way everyone was doing it
I change it. 10x faster
@Drew I find there's a lot of things most developers don't do. Security being the worst offender.
@AlexanderO'Mara you weren't here earlier maybe.
@SmokeDispenser related
@Drew What happened earlier?
this seems unclear before even being mcve
@AlexanderO'Mara Edit to accept/reject?
@AlexanderO'Mara it is in the transcript . perhaps a deleted meta
it is troubling not on the security front. But from a contributer
I think that post should have been given an upvote of 2 and we move on
Jan however took issue and was upset
Might have seen and commented on a Meta post from that user around that time.
We lost a guy
Can't remember who posted it, but there was a Meta post about how the rep for editing a question is lost if it's deleted.
Here it is, somebody else posted it: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/319154/…
05:56
pull him back from the dead please ... we could use Jan
Jan is a good guy. Bad day. Bad bowl of cheerios . Things lined up wrong for him today
I do hope everything gets for the best for everyone. that being said, the eyes a'closin so... nn ppl.
In honesty maybe things are too fragile. Just saying. We tried in comments
This room has principles. If time permits I can't wait to find all my dumb too broad answers and delete them
That took Jan for a ride today.
@SmokeDispenser ^^ we want ya back
^ The link does not have an relevance to the actual issue, and is to a commercial Megento something or other.
user3956566
back
06:12
@AlexanderO'Mara OP edited.
@AlexanderO'Mara @MsYvetteǝʇʇǝʌʎsW We lost Jan . Can you help
same as before
user3956566
@Drew yep
both gone
many deleted accounts with this username, but some are left
06:33
@MsYvetteǝʇʇǝʌʎsW I've noticed you've started reviewing! I'll update your session record.
06:51
@shadow 10 q batch hive
07:03
Good mornin'
Also, what kind of tag is ?
user3956566
@LinusKleen \o
@AlexanderO'Mara It's a jquery plugin
@LinusKleen Yeah, that's good. My first thought was, who made this tag?
No idea
07:36
Morning all
user3956566
\o
Morning
@TimCastelijns hi
@SmokeDetector The question need to be closed as too broad
07:51
@Ferrybig bounty :(
@SmokeDetector k (clear spam)
Where is our anti-spam team now?
user3956566
afk
@Ferrybig I've noticed you've started reviewing! I'll update your session record.
08:07
^ 14-minute old spam is still there
user3956566
working
Ferrybig passed a audit!
08:25
@Tunaki is there a plugin to flag posts directly from NATO
Plop!
user3956566
ok I'm out for a but
user3956566
bit
Contemplating whether or not to make a but joke
We're slow this morning
08:30
NO @Kyll I wrote a couple of lines long reply to your comment, but couldnt post because deleted D:<
Well, it's an auto-comment... So you could make an auto-comment to answer that auto-comment
My flag on this answer was declined, even with my upvoted comment below it
Answers don't need code to be valid
@TimCastelijns but this does not even come close to being a proper answer. It's a one-liner that says: "Might try this"
no reasoning why it might work, no code-based evidence to back the claim up or anything
Answers don't need to be proper to be valid ;)
08:36
therefore I think it should be a comment, like "Oh, you might find this tutorial handy"
He he :) Adriaan is in the mood to destroy what he doesn't like :) Alas, a downvote is what you apply to a poor answer.
@Gimby not necessarily delete, but moved to a comment for sure
And goodmorning.
Anti-spam team: rollout and destroy that post
Ferrybig passed an audit!
08:39
So closey also reports it when you fail one?
@Gimby Doesn't seem so, I failed 1 today and closey didn't saw it
@Adriaan just keep in mind that a suggested solution, doesn't matter if it's right or not, is an attempt to answer
@TimCastelijns There's Tiny's script.
Hiya o/
@Tuni link or else
08:43
Thanks. Btw, why is it not called NATOQ
Because it's not pretty. :D
Plop Tuna!
@Ferrybig I think that's the right choice, audit failures should be a personal thing unless you choose to breathe fire on meta about it :)
What to do when a user posts 2 question that are basically low quality and are both duplicates from each other
08:56
Close one as dupe of the other
Good morning!
Is this a tool rec or no mcve stackoverflow.com/questions/36055199/… ? Answers are kinda weird to me, was in triage queue
@kayess Hiya o/
@Tunaki Hiyo \o
Looks too broad also.
An error happened in UserTracking (cc @Sam)
0: Error getting response stream (ReadDone1): ReceiveFailure
1: EndRead failure
2: Connection reset by peer
----
at System.Net.Sockets.Socket.EndReceive (IAsyncResult result) <0x4072cb20 + 0x000a3> in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Net.Sockets.NetworkStream.EndRead (IAsyncResult ar) <0x4072c9e0 + 0x00057> in <filename unknown>:0

at System.Net.Sockets.NetworkStream.EndRead (IAsyncResult ar) <0x4072c9e0 + 0x000c7> in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Net.WebConnection.ReadDone (IAsyncResult result) <0x4075b240 + 0x00155> in <filename unknown>:0
09:01
@kayess Plop! Does look too broad and has a couple NAA, didn't vote since I'm not proficient enough in that tech
@Sam Closey barfed ^^^^
@Sam to isle 41570 please, bring a mop
@Mogsdad But I wanna!
Why wasn't this caught by "link at end of answer" or "shortened link in answer"?
Good morning!
Plop!
09:03
Hiya o/
@Kyll Plop! OK thanks
@PetterFriberg Hiya o/
@Ferrybig You've reviewed 60 posts today (of which 4 were audits), thanks! The time between your first and last review today was 1 hour, 4 minutes, and 19 seconds, averaging to a review every 1 minute and 4 seconds.
Back in office, that's nice... now I can track you all again....
Hi peeps who just came in
@Petter back from holiday?
09:06
@TimCastelijns No work... I have been in Sardinia, customer that want's sw....
Ahhh italy? I love italy
What do you guys think from the new limit of 60 close votes a day?
@TimCastelijns It is nicer to go on holiday.... but work not to bad either... customer always brings you in nice restaurants... : )
@Ferrybig We'll see how it goes, but I'm pessimistic
@Ferry have you already burned all your 60 cv....
09:09
@PetterFriberg I voted for some to leave open because they were ok. Having 7 votes left...
@Petter I really (!) like the fish restaurants on the italian islands
Then you should come with me, my customers are in the fish industry.... and trust me when they bring to restaurant... you eat some really nice stuff.
I wish that I could :p
I visited this cliente nieddittas.it/it : )
Just take a flight, I will go again in a couple of months : )
@Ferrybig I will spare some for later.... you never know what Drew is up to....
Don't understand one word, but the pictures look nice
09:16
@Ferrybig I like it
Who is sd k that? @Tuna
@TimCastelijns It's not important to understand.... it's important to eat some nice fish along the beach...
Wise words
slow clap
@Ferrybig I can not help my self thinking that Shog9 really want @Drew to be happy and quite.... he promised to never complain anymore if he got more cv and more mods... Just a couple a weeks later ... more mods and more cv : )
abusive... memeber since today
hmm Abusive - Petter Friberg 1 min ago disputed
disputed?
09:28
Did you flag it?....
No didn't have time.
@Kyll, what does your flag say?
What? let me check my flags
Can you link me the post?
09:29
Disputed too. WELL, at least it isn't rejected!
Disputed here too
@PetterFriberg ChrisF deleted, he might not have agreed on the abusiveness of that answer...
Maybe he just hit the wrong key. It's not declined, I'm moving on...
but it was a clear cut case (1 rep user, member since today, cat on keyboard...)... but np... lets move on...
Note that the user seems to have been deleted too
09:32
yeah lets scream on meta..... (just kidding...)
USer is gone yeah.
@Tunaki Welp, there's been a lot of great ideas on the answers there. Too bad nothing's going to happen, ever.
Time will tell.
Do we need smokey here to auto delete the messages if they are deleted in the 2 min mark? So we don't need to use gone? It's already active at the tavern.
@Ferrybig And end the sd gone races?! No way!
09:42
@Drew @Kyll she did/tried. There you go
@Closey commands
@SmokeDispenser Here is a list of commands you have permission to run:
add [user id] to [group name] - Manually adds a user to the given permission group.
alive - A simple ping command to test if the bot is running.
approve request [#] - Approves a pending permission request.
audit stats - Shows stats about your recorded audits.
commands - Shows this list.
current tag - Get the tag that has the most amount of manageable close queue items from the SEDE query.
help - Prints info about this software.
membership - Shows a list of all permission groups, and the members in those permission groups.
@Closey opt out
@SmokeDispenser You have opted-out of tracking, and will remain this way until you run opt in.
@SmokeDispenser Goodbye, will miss you
@Ferrybig, maybe see you in the DMZ or c-hq :) bye
09:45
@SmokeDispenser God damnit, it's deleted? Who'd do that?
> deleted by Eric D., Glorfindel, Soner Gönül 22 hours ago
@SmokeDispenser Security SE has a blog, maybe you can repurpose your answer as a blog post
hey guys
@Tunaki urgh. This deletion is abusive.
one of my flags got declined for this answer
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/15313807/android-maximum-allowed-width-height-of-bitmap/15313993#15313993
09:47
@ShamasS Plop
What was the flag?
@ShamasS What did you flag? NAA?
@ShamasS Hi
@Ferrybig, thanks to SO, I have no say to even copypasta my answer; it's gone for me low-rep user.
I flagged it with this comment,
pretty much copy paste from here
http://developer.android.com/training/displaying-bitmaps/load-bitmap.html
@SmokeDispenser I can get you the text if you need
09:48
@SmokeDispenser I'm sorry to see.. I will miss our agree / disagree... However keep your account and remember you are always welcome here.. (I got angry once also but I have tend to not consider single posts.... they are just not all handled correctly specially if the end up on meta..., but try to see the overall result, you win some, you loose some...)
so the code in the answer is copy/paste from the Android developer page, without indicating that it is. I thought we are supposed to give links to the code that we don't own
@ShamasS Yeah better not try and settle IP issues by yourself or by mods. Hasn't the content been reworked?
Uh, I see. The second code block is pasted indeed
But now there's an issue
Who pasted what?
even with the change in the first one, it should have at least disclosed the association
@ShamasS Probably declined as you could have just edited in some attribution rather than flag for mods to deal with.
09:50
Did the answerer produce original content that was later taken by a dev of the Android doc, or the other way around?
There's no timestamp on the docs so one can't now
@Kyll I didn't think of that though, could be.
@JonClements You nuked it already buddy.
@ShamasS Yeah, that answer is 3 years old too
o_o
09:51
@PraveenKumar huh?
Didn't even have the time to load that one
Nuked by a mod.
@SmokeDispenser I respect your decision, don't forget to check back no and then, maybe we improve a bit as we learn from our mistakes.
@JonClements The still exists thing.
@Shadow linky went bust?
09:52
@rene Still, couldn't the specific question be undeleted? This deletion was abusive as it destroyed good content ><
@Kyll Not sure we can say it's "abusive"
Seems false positive
It answers the question
@Kyll sure, I just gave it push ...
@Ferrybig Actually it doesn't.
Check my comment.
@DavidG Deletion should only be undertaken if there's harmful / plain useless content lying around. Jan's answer was none of that.
09:55
@PraveenKumar Why not, if you run that command, you get your own ip address?
The only bad part is the signature, what can be edited out if attribution is not needed
@Ferrybig Well, what if the node doesn't have access to the Internet?
Author's name is the same as the one on the blog though.
Well, leave it. :)
It's blatant self praise.
in Tavern on the Meta on Meta Stack Exchange Chat, 48 secs ago, by rene
@JeffreyBosboom if it isn't much of an hassle, feel free to enable that for the SOCVR as well
@PraveenKumar But that isn't the question, how can you have a public ip without internet, then it isn't public?
09:57
Sorry, the link in my previous request was incorrect
@Ferrybig Ah! My bad.
@SmokeDispenser Jan, nice meeting you, good luck over at security.SE
16 mins ago, by Kyll
@Ferrybig And end the sd gone races?! No way!
@Shadow Wafflez
@Ferrybig it just make the race more interesting... we do sd gone, before sd removes it... : )
09:58
there is sg wrong with my ability to copy and paste this morning :(
@Ferrybig sure, we give it a try, if it turns out to make only @Kyll unhappy I can live with that
:29392843 some CVed that :(
Yea... That too.. :P
@Kyll 1 vote remaining.
After the edit that sticks at -6 stackoverflow.com/questions/10647810/… ?
10:00
@Shadow Are you in any way related to ShadowWizard?
Are you his magic spell?
@kayess The only spam part of the answer is the relation of the author with the link
@kayess What? What just happened to all the votes?
@Tunaki Hmm IDK, it was at -6 some minutes ago, oh gotcha :)
Oh well: declined - a moderator reviewed your flag, but found no evidence to support it
@PraveenKumar On what? That weird answer?
10:01
I would disputed those flags, in the orginal state the answer was borderline spam (for attribution)
Well it wasn't spam.
@Kyll Yes yes... Technically it wasn't spam.
@Tunaki thanks.
@SmokeDispenser You're welcome :)
The user is also in good standing (registered) + good history
10:04
@TimCastelijns thanks. seems to work well. hit the rep cap there yesterday and am about to again today.
@PraveenKumar Sorry - I'm really busy - could you possibly elaborate on what you mean without me having to guess? :p
Yeah, my spam flag also got declined and I must agree with the decline. Unfortunately, I'm not aware of any way to retract a spam flag :(
Flags cannot be retracted
@Shadow there isn't such feature but there are FR's out there: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/87500/cancel-misclicked-flags
That's why you need to think twice before hitting the button :)
10:07
@rene thanks for the update!
yes, I know I should have thought twice. But it did look like a spam.
@IͶΔ no, I'm not
Is this OK stackoverflow.com/questions/36056726/… ? I mean it fits the Q/A format but... idk
@kayess Heh. Both Q and A could be improved. Maybe too broad? I can't tell. I'll move on.
@Tunaki Yeah I have skipped it as well
For me its asking for off-site resource....
10:11
Kind of feeling like tool rec too, but I'm not familiar with the tech
That's why I wrote that it's kinda weird to me
answer should be a comment imho
IMHO When you see a link only answer and you don't like to flag it since it seems answering the question.... the question is probably asking for off-site resources...
Lets see how this abusive flag goes...
That's gone now. :D
Deleted by community, not by mod so are helpful.
10:15
@PetterFriberg I went with VLQ though
Do we !!/report pure troll: stackoverflow.com/a/36057447/3933332 ?
@Rizier123 Meh. NAA.
@kayess Op responded to answer.... he was looking for a link....
@PetterFriberg Still off site req ?
The question is literally "where can I download this", how is that not an off-site resource request? :)
10:20
^^
@PetterFriberg So a recommendation about an off site resource? :p
@PraveenKumar Why not let the review que handle it?
@PetterFriberg Okie.
Ian
Ian
This case: stackoverflow.com/questions/36056726/… is interesting. Because the answer fits the question but the answer is both link only and answering off-topic question. What to do with the answer?
@PraveenKumar Maybe you need to re-flag it... seems like it has been edited...
10:24
@Ian leave it be
@Ian nothing, just close the question
Ian
Ian
@TimCastelijns @rene @PetterFriberg noted.
Are questions like "Does programming library X do Y" off-topic?
@Ferrybig Why would they be?
Because the a sign of a x-y problem and are usually better fit in a libraries support pages because a answer like yet or no is to small
I think we have had this discussion.... YES or NO answer... but maybe they get to broad if you need to demonstrate why not... or why yes..
Plop @Sam!
Sam
Sam
Hiya
Yes or no would be a bad answer to the question
@Sam Hiya o/
10:28
> Does Netty 4.0.43 support Websockets RFC 6455 ? official docs saying about Hybi-10 and mentioning about Hybi-17.
That is the question body -----^
@Ferrybig it depends. If it shows what it needs to achieve and then shows their attempt with using only library X it can be on-topic
Hiya
10:29
Hiya
Ian
Ian
Hiya
@Ferrybig Not off-topic for me. I could see an answer: "Yes it does, see linked documentation that I'm quoting here." Or "no it doesn't see list of supported protocol quoted here from doc"
@Ferrybig I think I once asked a Meta Q about that Nope, I don't
@Ferrybig Hmm, I would rephrase as: I have this netty stuff going but it doesn't do RFC 6455 as shown with this MCVE. How can I make Netty follow that RFC?
@rene Netty is an open source project, so I wonder if "contribute the code yourself" would be an answer when asked like that :).
10:38
@Gimby you could try that, let me know when you did so I can vote on that appropriately.... ;)
@Ferry we are eager to see your response on the comments made here gist.github.com/ferrybig/f54a1f66f02924f54b0e
@rene well I'm trying to find a meta on it, no luck so far actually
@PetterFriberg Will do
@PetterFriberg Yeah, we are!
@Ferrybig I thought your answers were edited in the Gist itself?
10:41
@Tunaki Yes, they are, just checking if I didn't forget one
@Ferrybig aah... ok... was not expecting this....
57 pending flags. Everyone knows what to do.
Talking to me?.... need to check the LQP que : )
afk
Going afk is not it.
:p
10:49
@PetterFriberg Which one? Checked it to find the same.
It's a new question.
@PraveenKumar Then flag the answer... (please ask a new question) ?
@PetterFriberg Yes, flagged already. Pending.
oki doki I'm working in the LQP que.... let's see what I can achieve have already found some Tuna and Bhargav flags ; )
@BhargavRao I see a lot of copy and past answers from a user I tried a online tool http://gceasy.io did you mod flag the user?
Nah, I stopped flagging vlq after 2. The autoflag will kick in
@PetterFriberg Yes. ^
10:58
Ms Yvette ǝʇʇǝʌʎ sW passed a audit!

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