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00:00 - 18:0018:00 - 00:00

18:07
Has Mystical gotten swag for the branch prediction answer yet? — durron597 13 secs ago
Does anyone know how to find a specific question in the reopen queue (so I can make sure it stays closed ;) that birthday song steamer
@Mogsdad Pretty sure it's already out of it.
Thanks @Rizier123 - How did you determine that URL?
@Mogsdad How often do you search for " google"?
@Mogsdad Probably looked in the chat history ;)
18:12
@durron597 d'oh. Still -- I would like to be able to find reviews for specific questions. Strictly speaking, not the way the system works, I know.
@Mogsdad Just guessed...
@Mogsdad I just go to the history page and do find in page.
Nah I went to: stackoverflow.com/review/reopen/history And with Ctrl + F I searched for the title "How can..." and went through the pages
I haven't ever tried to look for one more than a day or two old.
@Rizier123 Love it! I have wanted to do this before as well, when I see a deservedly-closed question with reopen votes on it. (The Birtday Song question has 2 for example.) Now... if it's still in the queue, it won't be in history. So this tip is good for forensics, but not for prevention.
18:22
@Mogsdad Is this intended, that the SmokeDetector reports a question twice: chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/25227362#25227362 + chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/25237894#25237894?
@Rizier123 It was just edited
@Rizier123 I am not wise in the ways of the Smoke.
The first one is the original bounty, the second one is the edit.
Ah yeah see it
It will only supress if you give it the ignore command
18:26
you know, every time i read "its not a duplicate!" i imagine that scene in kindergarden cop where arnold screams at the kids, "its not a tumor!"
@cimmanon Me too!
Ok, somebody find the users that approved this edit. I have some holes to fill in the woods. stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/9244139
@Mogsdad The post is better, technically.
That's why suggested edit rep is capped lifetime at 500.
@durron597 How is that better? Are we looking at the same thing? Two caps and a qualifying object "one"?
That's the kind of edit you make when there's nothing else wrong with the question, and you have enough rep to keep it out of the queue. But now it's in the reopen queue!
@Mogsdad It is 1% better.
I would have "Reject and edit"ed it, but I understand why it was approved.
So, you're saying I'm going to have to fill those holes with dirt? Not as much fun...
18:36
> Thank you for reviewing 20 reopen votes today; come back in 5 hours to continue reviewing.
@Mogsdad ughhh
I know, right? Broad. Demonstrated by long-winded answers that need to point to longer-winded treatises. Sigh.
@Mogsdad Why haven't you downvoted it yet? I have.
18:39
@Mogsdad both
done
18:56
@Mogsdad we should make a macro image :p
@Mogsdad The tag Haskell only exists to indicate which questions qualify as an audit...
user4639281
@durron597 It was in response to a meta post. A user was using those questions as examples of why they should be able to ask a similar very broad question. @rene @TylerH and I reviewed them and agreed that they were both two broad. We all missed the faq tag though.
See... don't touch c++ ...
and Haskell ...
@durron597 I thought the cap was 1k?
@rene Would you believe I've hit two other q's since that audit? I hopped out and checked them live before committing myself. What a farce.
user4639281
19:03
But, even if C++ is allowed to do that. The questions should have banners telling users not to use them as examples of good on-topic questions. The faq tag is obviously not enough.
user4639281
-16
Q: I have a question on hold, it is similar to other successful questions, what is wrong with it?

user2141130My SO question What is the purpose of std::stringstream? is on hold. I do not see how it is different from many other open-ended questions such as What is a smart pointer and when should I use one? and What are move semantics?. What is wrong with that question?

Another tactic: edit your question challenging the close vote. That's asking for it. I think I was kind...
@Mogsdad I believe you, I'm always dead serious...
@TinyGiant @Shog9 This MSO post is why those two questions got closed here.
@durron597 so the message is: don't touch ?
user4639281
19:12
Pretty much. But that doesn't stop users from using them as examples.
Hmm. No round up of rep for Delete Votes, I see. Pity.
@TinyGiant No, but we can explain that the c++-faq ones are in fact CW posts that exist for being broad. Confusing, yes, but if a user came to MSO to learn from the posting experience they would get it. The particular case we are talking about was already lost on SO only to have the MSO post deepen the wound...
user4639281
I still think there should be something signalling that it is an exception to the rule, more than a faq tag.
user4639281
How many other users see the same questions and ask similar questions which get closed as off-topic without asking why the faq questions are allowed and theirs is not? Why not explain it right up front?
@TinyGiant Agree, don't see how ...
19:22
Uhm... where to start? Broad question? NAAs? Cover me, I'm going in...
user4639281
> This questions a general reference question, it is purposefully formulated to be overly broad so that it can cover a wide subject range. This question is an exception to the quality control rules and should not be used as an example of a good quality question.
@durron597 heh... I have no problem with closing lousy questions when someone calls them out as justification for their own. But don't let someone tie your hands this way; if they post crap, the fact that they can use search (after the fact...) is not your problem nor does it negate the problems with their question.
user4639281
@Shog9 We all missed the faq tag, that's why we closed the question. Should not something be done to prevent users from being able to use those posts as justifications if they are going to be kept?
@TinyGiant Most importantly, closing a decent question because someone tried to copy it, badly, isn't a great rationale. I made this point in a different context the other day, but...
A fair number of older "canonical" questions have been edited for brevity and made intentionally more broad such that they can be used as dup-targets. That's usually a good thing, not a reason to close...
3
user4639281
Ok, we missed the faq tag. But there is nothing signalling the user that the question is overly broad and shouldn't be used to justify their own overly broad question.
19:26
So, as always, look at the nature of the question you're closing: is it well-answered, is it not causing problems (directly, not "this inspired me to write my own question except without all the good answers"), and is it heavily-referenced?
If yes to all, then... Leave it alone and tell "but moooooom!" askers to go earn close vote privileges themselves if they wanna close other stuff.
@TinyGiant other than the lessons they learned at 3 years old when using this tactic on their parents?
Yeah, nothing stopping them from trying to justify their own actions by calling out Sister Suzy's similar actions.
It didn't work then, and you shouldn't let them get away with it now.
user4639281
Why not tell the C++ room to put a banner on the questions to deter people from asking similarly scoped questions.
(or maybe it did work then, and we can blame this all on bad parenting?)
user4639281
Could be
sounds like a good solution to me.
user4639281
Could you do that, being who you are?
19:30
go back and give the young versions of our users a good whoopin'? Probably not. Don't have a time machine.
Although I do have this willow switch...
user4639281
Lol, no. Could you possibly suggest to the users in the C++ room the banner solution.
oh. No, I'm not overly fond of banners.
user4639281
Oh, that isn't the solution you were saying sounded good?
user4639281
Sorry, I misunderstood.
@TinyGiant no, blaming the victim is my preference here
I mean, culprit
@TinyGiant If they want one and come up with a good wording for it, and it gets vetted on meta... I'll go by what the community wants. But so far, not a lot of enthusiasm for this (it's come up before).
user4639281
19:34
Ok, so nothing should be done to deter users from posting similarly scoped questions, just close them as too broad.
user4639281
And when/if users complain on meta, we tell them that their justification is not a justification because it canonical questions are purposefully broad.
@Closey starting
@Mogsdad Don't get lost in the queue!
@Closey starting
@gunr2171 Don't get lost in the queue!
19:37
@Closey starting
@rene By the power of the Vote! Review!
@TinyGiant The question is always, do you have a real problem to solve? If so, state it. Referencing old questions that have been distilled from a specific problem into a still-specific but somewhat broader question that covers a multitude of very closely-related problems is you avoiding the question, namely: what are you trying to do here?
user4639281
Sounds good
> I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because it's bad?
boom (by fox)
user4639281
Not a one user downvoted that question
19:41
@gunr2171 yup, silently watching :p
@TinyGiant He, I needed some time to leave a comment....
passed c# audit
user4639281
And then five lol
oh, it seems I've passed Kevin Panko, now 3rd to last on the leaderboard
yeah, I just got that one...
19:45
> start the servers via MySQL
0
A: I have a question on hold, it is similar to other successful questions, what is wrong with it?

Shog9You're referencing two questions that struck a nerve: they asked, in simple language, something that is implicitly asked daily by others struggling to get a handle on how modern C++ should be used. They attracted good answers that became immediately useful in explaining these topics to others. ...

failed delphi audit
PS: audit is wrong. mcve, imo stackoverflow.com/review/close/9245743
so @Shog9, is this an example of a cannacal post that should stay open or one that is too broad and should be closed? stackoverflow.com/questions/3928228/php-and-curl-get-ajax-data
13k views, but not very many votes
19:51
pondering if asking politely is something I need often...
passed java audit
8
Q: How to deal with askers who incorrectly claim their question is "not a duplicate"?

cimmanonWhen a question is believed to have been wrongly closed, the advice that is given to them is to "update your question and explain why it is different from the other" (ironically, this question is closed as a duplicate of a duplicate). But what if the question really is a duplicate? The OP beli...

@gunr2171 it's not canonical in any way. Nor is it particularly broad.
It is somewhat unclear, as evidenced by the answer that completely misunderstands what the asker is asking for.
@Shog9 Thanks for that answer
Personally, I wouldn't waste a vote on it. And I have unlimited votes.
Thank you for reviewing 40 close votes today; come back in 4 hours to continue reviewing.
19:53
@Mogsdad Thanks for reviewing! To see more information use the command last session stats.
While I've got your attention, there was some rage in this room about this question
46
Q: How can I play birthday music using R?

Feng TianI would like to play music using R. How can I accomplish this? Which music file format should I use as input? Are there any packages that I can use for this purpose?

lol
It got posted on facebook by the official Stack Overflow account
@Closey last session stats
@Mogsdad Your last completed review session ended 29 seconds ago and lasted 17 minutes and 5 seconds. You reviewed 40 items, averaging a review every 25 seconds.
19:54
And, I struggle to think of a worse question that has proper grammar / isn't spam.
@gunr2171 hmmm I clearly don't have this script setup yet, again :(
Obviously, the answer is amazing.
@enderland What version of the script do you have running?
@durron597 hyperbole; this is much worse
I think your question could be edited to be less... "resource-requesty"
Whether you want to do that or not, I donno
clearly no one else did
@SmokeDetector uh, what's new about that?
user4639281
in SOCVR Testing Facility, 14 secs ago, by Tiny Giant
@enderland What issue are you having with the script?
19:57
@Shog9 I mean, if you want to post a recent good question on facebook, you could post this
I'm not entirely sure who runs the Facebook account
@gunr2171 In perl everything is a challenge...
I haven't logged onto FB in... 6 months?
Once it has a great answer, I'm inclined to let it slide, but... such a poor choice of "the best of Stack Overflow"
@Shog9 ... and isn't that a good reason to put it on hold? Presumably the author knows what they were looking for. "On hold" should give them impetus to fix it, no?
19:58
@gunr2171 Any idea why the user is blacklisted?
@durron597 oh, I remember that question. 'Tis a good one
@Shog9 Indeed
@Mogsdad probably not. They already have their answer. Question now is, do we wanna keep that answer around?
@KevinBrown look at revision 2
but the blacklist might be unnecessary
19:59
@gunr2171 already removed:
in Tavern on the Meta on Meta Stack Exchange Chat, 20 secs ago, by Normal Human
Threw a tantrum once, but this isn't a reason to keep them blacklisted.
ok, great
@ProgramFOX beat me to !!/rmblu
We already had to rmblu Jon Skeet....
46
Q: How can I play birthday music using R?

Feng TianI would like to play music using R. While R may not be the best tool for this purpose, it is the tool that I am familiar with and it would be nice to demonstrate to others its flexibility on such a joyous occasion. How could I accomplish this?

@durron597 ^
@Mogsdad I could see a pretty good question coming out of that
20:01
@Shog9 If I were the supreme overlord of Stack Exchange, a question like that is exactly what I'd use a moderator lock for.
And... Shog beat me to the edit
@Shog9 change(tool request) < 0; change(too broad) == 0;
I would thumbs-up the editor...
user4639281
@durron597 agree
@Shog9 Ok, who had "4 minutes" in the "How long do we have to nag Shog before he edits a question" pool?
20:03
Almost every time I have flagged a bad, highly voted question for historical lock on SO, I've gotten declined. And I have Robert Harvey's ear in the Programmers room and Jon Clements's ear here.
But even they won't do it for me unless there's "controversy"
Honestly I think "historical lock" would be better changed to "not everyone agrees this is a good question but there's a good answer, so we locked it"
3
but verbosity doesn't play well with UI, and that's why I'm not a designer
don't tell Mogsdad that
he'll rip your UI decisions apart
user4639281
^^^ agree
20:06
(in a helpful and constructive way, of course)
user4639281
^^^ also agree
@durron597 meh. It has one answer. What are we worried about, a sudden influx of PHP coders switching to R?
user4639281
God help R users if that ever does happen.
@Shog9 I don't like having to argue with people over what's a good question when they can say "well THIS question got posted on facebook, why can't my gimme-teh-codez question stay open?"
@durron597 As I said above, folks who are predisposed to that argument will find a way to make it regardless.
41 mins ago, by Shog9
Yeah, nothing stopping them from trying to justify their own actions by calling out Sister Suzy's similar actions.
If you didn't learn it when you were 3, you ain't gonna be stopped now.
20:09
> There are no items for you to review, matching the filter "off-topic, unclear what you're asking, too broad, primarily opinion-based; [twitter-bootstrap] [source] [google-apps-script]"
@Closey next 5 tags
Refreshing the tag listing. Please wait...
@Shog9 That's fair, but it's one thing to not close/delete a question, and another to endorse it by putting on facebook.
@rene The next 5 tags are: 134, 131, 93, 84, 70
@durron597 because Facebook is widely recognized as a bastion of quality and fairness? Yes, fair point.
Bring it up on meta if you feel strongly.
passed javascript audit
20:10
@Shog9 Because questions that get posted by the official Stack Overflow account have the "good question" seal of approval
Wait.... SE employees are human...as in...they can make mistakes?
@durron597 like I said, I'm not involved in that - I have no idea what the criteria are for those questions (they may be semi-automated posts for all I know); raise it on meta if you sense a concerning pattern.
@Shog9 Okay, I will later probably. Working on an answer to bluefeet's question at the moment
much better use of your time, IMHO
Maybe the same procedure to select good audits is used for the FB account...
20:13
bluefeet asked a question? gasp!
I can see why that question was selected, it had a pretty high score. It's like how a pretty terrible question shows up in the "hot network posts" every now and again
(actually, I think that question showed up earlier)
ugh, I've only done 24 reviews so far
passed c audit
> Thank you for reviewing 40 close votes today; come back in 3 hours to continue reviewing.
@rene Thanks for reviewing! To see more information use the command last session stats.
@Closey last session stats
20:16
@rene Your last completed review session ended 15 seconds ago and lasted 38 minutes and 32 seconds. You reviewed 40 items, averaging a review every 57 seconds.
20:28
> Thank you for reviewing 40 close votes today; come back in 3 hours to continue reviewing.
@gunr2171 Thanks for reviewing! To see more information use the command last session stats.
that only took forever...
@Closey last session stats
@gunr2171 Your last completed review session ended 11 seconds ago and lasted 51 minutes and 1 second. You reviewed 40 items, averaging a review every 1 minute and 16 seconds.
0
A: Let's move some negatively scored answers from the top spot

durron597I don't think only addressing answers with a negative score properly addresses the problem. Here are many examples where the accepted answer has quite a high score, but another answer has an even higher score: Difference: 2611, Accepted: 128/-41: Clone a specific Git branch Difference: 463, Ac...

As an aside, bluefeet scribbling out the username of the crappy answer there did nothing to hide their identity, i found it in about 5 seconds of searching
20:47
Holy Overuse of !important Batman! Sheesh. — Paulie_D 40 mins ago
and i'm out!
@Closey starting
@josilber May the Vote be with you!
21:43
Thank you for reviewing 40 close votes today; come back in 2 hours to continue reviewing.
@josilber Thanks for reviewing! To see more information use the command last session stats.
@Closey last session stats
@josilber Your last completed review session ended 9 seconds ago and lasted 48 minutes and 2 seconds. You reviewed 40 items, averaging a review every 1 minute and 12 seconds.
error happened!
0: The remote server returned an error: (404) Not Found.
@Closey Now I know we fixed that.
@durron597 Sorry, I don't understand that. Use commands for a list of commands.
21:54
@Closey Commands
Below is a list of commands for the Close Vote Chat Bot

Everyone
    alive - A simple ping command to test if the bot is running.
    commands - Shows this list.
    help - Prints info about this software.
    running commands - Displays a list of all commands that the chat bot is currently running.
    status - Tests if the chatbot is alive and shows simple info about it.

Registered
    audit stats - Shows stats about your recorded audits.
    completed tags [min <#>] - Shows the latest tags that have been completed by multiple people.
@Closey status
SOCVR ChatBot version 1.0.0.0, running for 3 days, 5 hours, 16 minutes and 57 seconds.
That's after we fixed it.
22:05
@durron597 just don't remove posts ;) ...
@rene if you have to end up saying "just don't close posts" - you've got a fairly major design flaw :p
:D
He's not hurt, he's asking for the blood of virgins
My Saturday just started, I need some sleep first if I want to survive... I'm out...
22:19
sleep well
Wow... that's worryingly impressive :)
@JonClements Are you able to see all five bc diamond? I can't anymore
Yup...
Umm... I've settled on too broad
22:40
@JonClements Oh come on it's totally a tool request. (/me doesn't really care)
not the type of answer i was expecting from a 35k rep:
-1
A: How to deal with askers who incorrectly claim their question is "not a duplicate"?

Drew DormannHistorically, in this situation - where I'm skeptical of the claim "this is not a dupe!" - I err on the side of maybe I'm completely wrong about this and have left a comment: I am voting to reopen this question, as @user believes this is not a duplicate of This Other Question. I leave it to ...

22:56
@durron597 why so grumpy? :)
@JonClements Where? I mean, I'm grumpy everywhere, so I just want to know which particular place you noticed =D
I dunno - your reply came across as a bit fed up is all...
@JonClements Reply to you?
yes... :)
@JonClements Oh... I wasn't grumpy at all towards you LOL. That would have been my last guess
back in a bit
23:24
heya @josilber
@JonClements hey
23:43
@durron597 I'm not a Java guy - what do you think of stackoverflow.com/questions/19757300/… and stackoverflow.com/questions/23548589/… (potentially dupewise?)
@JonClements I know I'm waiting 12 minutes to dupe this as a dupe of this
@JonClements Yours looks like a dupe too
Although because it's old I'd like to think about it more
Haha... okay... I'll leave it in your safe hands... not sure if the Qs are really dupes, it's just they share a duplicate answer is all
Let us know what you think and I might nuke one of the answers depending
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