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1:43 AM
@tink how the heck did this get 4 upvotes in less than 1 hour???
 
3:07 AM
@desertnaut I was wondering the same thing ... voting ring? Sock puppets? :)
 
A bit suss that the answer also got 4 upvotes...
 
@Nick I think he meant the answer ... looking at the question's history there's no up-/downvotes (or I don't know how to interpret the data presented ;}) ...
 
@tink the question you initially linked had 4 upvotes too
 
Ah true ... I didn't know how to read it :D
Quite strange ...
 
Yeah, considering how hard it generally is to get upvotes, even in the python tag
 
3:24 AM
And that the answer followed on the heel, the question and answer are no more than 5 minutes apart ...
 
FGITW! :)
 
Heh
 
3:38 AM
@tink And less than 3 minutes after their previous answer.
 
Impressive. Perhaps I should offer them a job! :)
 
3:56 AM
@gre_gor what a machine! I'm envious.
Sorry, busy baking :D ... making a banana-walnut cake ;)
In the oven now
@gre_gor But I love the comment on the previous answer :D Thanks, I can use Chat GPT as well. This isn't getting me what I need. ...
 
11 answers in 81 minutes on java, sql, python, regex, pandas. wow!
we now resume your normal programming...
 
4:11 AM
Doubly impressive in light of the fact that they're a manager, not a coder :D
 
 
2 hours later…
Cow
6:04 AM
Test
lol who stared my test message šŸ˜‚ Iā€™m just testing on my phone
 
 
1 hour later…
 
 
2 hours later…
9:42 AM
how do we flag AI generated answers these days?
 
9:53 AM
@LindaLawton-DaImTo custom flag
 
10:05 AM
they deleted it after i pointed out it was 97% ai generated and useless
 
You destroyed 3% of value! To Meta!
 
 
1 hour later…
11:39 AM
What is the preferred handling of the immediately above SD report. Should I flag it or downvote it or both?
 
@AdrianHHH Flag as R/A. You can toss in a downvote if you really wish but it's not necessary. Redflags do automatically add a downvote anyway.
 
Thanks.
 
12:23 PM
Morning
 
12:38 PM
surely this question is a duplicate, and borderline general computing? stackoverflow.com/questions/77979759/…
 
Cow
The Spaceballs! Watch out, we're the Spaceballs!
this is running on repeat on my brain
 
there was a theme song?
 
Cow
 
wonder when that played.. the evacuation scene?
 
Cow
yeah
 
12:48 PM
@tripleee Looks like in-platform and off-platform dup. I hesitate on off-topic(ness)
 
Cow
@aynber when the crew of Spaceball I evacuate from the ship leaving Dark Helmet - you're absolutely right
 
Yeah, listening to the song now, that's what I thought
 
1:05 PM
 
1:31 PM
Were posts like these, basically nothing but three images of code, flaggable as NAA? I've been told not to use VLQ anymore, so NAA is my only resort. I've left a comment, can/should I do more?
 
Huh, I would've considered that a 'very low quality' answer so I'm not sure
reading it more closely it looks like a 'me too' post though, so that would definitely be NAA
though Machavity has already deleted it
 
@TylerH "Fixed after adding .js in import." is the answer part (although I can't see anything related to that in the screenshot, but I'm not an SME).
@TylerH yea, so I guess these are worth flagging anyway
 
It was three images of code. Definitely LQP or NAA
 
1:50 PM
@Adriaan Who told you not to use VLQ flags on answers? On Qs, I get it, but what's wrong with them on answers? In fact, when applicable (posts > ~7 days old or those with any upvote in their history aren't eligible), they're marginally better than NAA, in that an OP edit automagically marks them helpful (and throws in a system-generated downvote, for good measure).
@Machavity LQP? New type of flag, or a mod-only thing? xD
 
@AdrianMole Low Quality Post. Not a new flag
 
LQP is deprecated. Long live LQA.
 
@AdrianMole dharman did at some point n SOBotics
 
Hmm.
 
@AdrianMole Only on Stack Overflow, most of the network has LQP and that's largely the term that's used.
The concern with VLQ flags is that an edit will mark the flag helpful and invalidate the review task. If you're the only flagger on the post and you choose VLQ and someone makes a cosmetic edit (OR the OP adds a '?' to their question-in-the-answer field) then the post never gets handled correctly.
 
1:56 PM
LQFP means Low profile Quad Flat Package... or maybe I'm the only one here dealing with them CPU thingies :)
 
And there are VLQAs - very large quantum arrays?
 
@HenryEcker Not that VLQ flags on answers are wrong by any stretch. It's just that NAA does exactly the same thing in terms of review queue and mod notification but will either be handled by review queue or a moderator. There's nothing that can short-circuit the handling of an NAA flag.
 
Hmm. I can see the concern.
 
@AdrianMole Variable Length Questions and Answers
 
@HenryEcker I was about to ask if the auto-handling of VLQs on OP edits also invalidated the review queue entry, but you pre-empted me.
 
2:13 PM
Why would we need such complex logic for VLQ flags? In 6 to 8 weeks we have a meta site and in 6 to 8 months a chat site and those need reason to exist as well.
 
2:24 PM
@user12002570 When you have posted the dupe target yourself, it is considered proper SO etiquette not to cast any close votes or dupe hammers directing people to your own post, when you are partial. There's no rule against it though...
 
@user12002570 both Q and A are upvoted, why does that need to go? Why can it not stay as a signpost?
 
@Adriaan IMO so called "signposts" are overrated. But open Q&A means that there's a chance that better answers pop up than those already present on the site. The oldest Q&A is not necessarily the best one. In fact a lot of the post we use as "canonical" are pretty crappy, even when they tend to be up-voted into the skies.
Ideally the best Q with the best A(s) should be the canonical, no matter when it was posted. Or we like to keep the mods busy, request merging... though I can't remember if doing that ever ended up well.
 
@Lundin first I've heard of such an etiquette rule.
As an SME you should be ideally suited to know what the best answer is and also provide it yourself
 
@TylerH Well, it is poor taste to self-promote your own posts in that way. I could probably do that all over the place and dupe hammer half of the C tag with links to my own posts, for example...
 
It's not poor taste, it's the point of the system
It's poor taste if you're suggesting duplicate targets you authored that aren't the ideal target, sure
I would certainly question whether the ideal targets include questions that are themselves closed as duplicates, though...
 
2:36 PM
Well, as I just said, it's a matter of picking the best post as the dupe target. And if you've written a post yourself, you are quite partial into thinking that's the one post to rule them all.
For example here this is an obvious dupe to a self-answered Q&A I wrote at some point. But I refrain from close-voting and just leave a link to the duplicate in comments. Then the decision about closing is made by others who aren't partial.
 
I do use posts of mine as duplicate targets. I consider that the whole point of the hammer-privilege. You've gotten the points in said tag by posting answers there. If you then cannot use those posts as target, what's the point of having unilateral duplicate closing power?
 
Eh, I think we can/should assume SMEs know enough to pick the best target regardless of authorship. If you see a pattern of poor duplicate closures otherwise, I recommend flagging for mods to investigate whether a user is abusing the dupe hammer privilege
 
I'd like that Q&A to have ended up the canonical for implicit type promotion questions out of its own merit and not because I've been promoting it by dupe hammering stuff. There's a difference when you don't have dupe hammer rights, then you need 2 others agreeing.
Also, not immediately dupe hammering everything means that better answers than what's already present on the site may appear. Hardly the case in the linked example so far, but then who am I to judge since I'm partial.
 
@Adriaan There's enough of these so called "signposts".
 
@Lundin Yes, when you don't have dupe hammer rights, other users have to agree w/ your duplicate closure. But as Adriaan said when you have dupe hammer rights, it's because people felt at least a thousand times that you knew what you were talking about in that tag. That's the point of the privilege: you're now a subject matter expert
@Lundin Ideally the better answers are posted to the duplicate target
if the newer answer would not apply to the older question, then perhaps the question shouldn't be closed as a duplicate in the first place
 
2:44 PM
Well, so are the 3 people who posted answers below the linked example. They too have gold badges and are probably aware of the canonical dupe even.
Dupe hammers aren't quite working as intended, are they...
 
yes, there are plenty of counter examples of high rep users not doing what they should... the #2 rep user on the site answers like 80% duplicate posts
but "look they aren't doing what they're supposed to" isn't a valid justification for us not doing what we're supposed to
there just aren't nearly enough cops to enforce the rules completely
it's made more difficult by the fact that for enforcement of this particular thing, you not only need the cops, but they often need to have domain knowledge, too
 
Well, cops aren't supposed to tell the people they arrested that "hey my cousin is a good lawyer who's dealt with plenty of cases like this in the past, you should totally hire them".
Even if that happens to be true and they do have a good lawyer as cousin... Because they are still partial.
 
I think you may have mixed up the metaphor. The cop here is the moderator telling people to close questions as duplicates instead of answering them. It's not the SME user with a gold badge
It also doesn't compare well because on SO you can't separate the expertise factor from the authorship
 
meh
i only see such closures as problematic if i know there's a better target
 
you're not depriving anyone of their freedom by closing a question as a duplicate; they can still answer the duplicate target (in most cases) if they have a novel answer. So it's not like a cop arresting someone so much as saying "you can't drive down this street, but you can drive down that other street a block or two over"
 
2:54 PM
If we have to involve mods then that defeats the purpose of the dupe hammer as well. And they would indeed need to have domain knowledge.
 
otherwise... why should i care
If you can't suggest a better target i don't see a reason to contest the closure
 
the cop may well have chosen that other street because it's hot out and their cousin has an ice cream shop on that business. But that's OK as long as it's the best alternate route and there was a legitimate reason to close the street in the first place. If one of those isn't the case, then yes there's an issue. But we also don't have a great way to communicate with other users in our tags directly. Best we got is chat rooms, and those don't always work well
 
@TylerH Aha, so this is where "Discussions" comes in? :)
 
I don't know what state the C++ Chatroom /Lounge is in these days, but it might be useful as a place to say to others "hey, I think this is a duplicate, but I don't want to dupe hammer because I'm the author of the target--please weigh in"
@Lundin oh no, don't get @KevinB started on Discussions...
 
@TylerH The C++ folks aren't necessarily good at C and vice versa. It's likely, but not guaranteed. And there's this touchy culture thing about not mixing up C and C++.
As for the C chat, it's dead as a door nail.
 
2:59 PM
oh, I thought we were talking about C++ stuff
it's all the same to me :-P
 
It's kind of like calling Canadians Americans or vice versa :) Very similar and yet not quite.
 
@Lundin well, Canadians are Americans (North- to be precise), as are Brazilians (South-) etc. Vice versa you might be correct in calling an American Canadian, but not all Americans are Canadian. In other words: Canada is a subset of America. (And yes, this is to say that the United States of America isn't all of "America", even though the terms are often used interchangably)
 
Yeah, so now you go into the C chat and call C a subset of C++ and see how that works out for you :)
 
@Lundin I'll excuse myself there, as I've got no clue as to either language
 
They'll call the mounties. I mean the police. I mean the moderators.
 
3:19 PM
I know a "thing or two" about C but I'm far more a C++ programmer. There are sufficient SMEs in C (@Lundin is one, another is called Eric) who'll happily call me out when I make a presumptive claim in a C post based on my C++ knowledge. That's a good thing. But I still got my C gold badge, though. :)
 
You should switch to Rust :-P
 
... what I really want, though are gold badges in , , ... whatever.
(Or maybe one of them there squashed, sideways square things after my name?)
 
I got a gold badge in . So surely I know everything about arrays in any programming language. Just the arrays though, not the rest of the language.
 
Yeah - arrays is another great one.
 
@Lundin that and things as or , are interesting, as they concern concepts present in many languages. So you can suddenly dupe hammer questions in Java, C, Python, MATLAB ...
 
3:24 PM
would be cool, too.
Or should that be ?
 
Object-oriented programming stuff.
Devoops = Oops that devop didn't go quite as smoothly as intended.
3
 
Well, post a question tagged ?
 
- Systemic C oops
 
@Machavity Moderator abuse - cuz I actually clicked it!
xD
 
3:30 PM
@AdrianMole You're not very C#, are you? :P
 
More D-flat.
 
@AdrianMole I can call Jon Skeet and have him e-mail you his account password. That's probably the fastest way to get you a gold badge in all those tags
 
hehe
 
@Lundin yeah, one other benefit of a feature like parent/language tags would be we could limit dupe hammer privileges to just those instead of all tags
 
I don't really see why there should be dupe hammers for anything but the major programming languages or frameworks.
 
3:34 PM
and this is something that should be doable now, but would be easier to do with parent/language tags, but the system could warn people closing/flagging as duplicates when the target has a different language tag than the question they're closing
e.g. "are you sure? This question is in R and the target is in Python" for example
 
Is this terribly tagged question about programming? The NAA suggests it's about customer support instead (regional limitation of Android)
 
@Lundin yes, exactly
having a gold badge in is impressive but shouldn't give one dupe-hammer privileges just because a question uses that tag
 
100%. however they'll never add a feature that lets us define what the major tags are.
 
@Adriaan um, I don't think so? Looks like the OP did not follow Google Play Store guidelines for getting access to a feature? That seems like play store policy compliance to me in the same vein as questions asking "why did my app store app get rejected"
 
@Lundin because anything else requires that most scarce of all goods: dev time. Unless you can convince them it's AI related, then it'll get implemented right away
 
3:38 PM
I kind of got a C++ gold badge from answering C questions too. I wouldn't call myself a C++ expert. I did code in that horrible language for some decade, but I'm super rusty and haven't kept up to date past C++11...
So the dupe hammer system is flawed in many ways.
 
I've even seen questions tagged C in the reopen queue (and, occasionally, in the close Q) that I could hammer, either way, but don't ... unless I'm really, really sure.
Like, a scanf leaves a newline question, for example. That I'd hammer closed.
 
@AdrianMole That's one of the most common FAQ of all indeed. But well, you can't dupe unhammer stuff unless it was closed as dupe. Most stuff in the reopen queue is just low post quality.
 
 
2 hours later…
5:26 PM
@Lundin What is so bad with C++?
 
7:01 PM
 
7:14 PM
This is what they mean when they say 'Stack Overflow moderation is fast.'
 
@CPlus Spamming tags is a very good way to get more eyes on the question. Which is probably what the question asker wanted. But the result was probably not as they expected.
 
@VLAZ Generally speaking, spamming tags is a good way to get attention fast, provided the asker does not mind if the attention is negative attention.
 
7:29 PM
It got Jon Skeet's attention. That's good, right? :)
 
7:43 PM
> sorry in advance for all the rules i'm about to break,
 
Cow
haha
 
@VLAZ What an honor, to have your question close-voted by the Jon Skeet himself.
 
that looks like just the kind of question I imagine people who want discussions to exist think would be a good useful discussion
(the tag spam incident)
i saw a java question tagged javascript today, and it wasn't even mistagged
 
@TylerH @Cow please use valid del-pls reasons; "this should just be deleted" is not one. That being said, the question will Roomba in 10 days and probably doesn't need manual delete votes.
 
Cow
@TylerH roger that, sorry
 
8:35 PM
 
 
1 hour later…
9:43 PM
The title is different enough to help with searching. the reopen vote might be because the duplication isn't obvious; I assume what you have in mind is "trim everything before X = split once on X and discard the first part", but there could be other ways to do it, certainly there are in other languages.
and really, the best duplicate target you could find has a score of -4?
I'm thinking there might be some opportunity for artificial beginner canonicals here.
 
@KarlKnechtel I cannot be held responsible for the voting behaviors of this community nor the lack of effort in asked questions. The most important thing about a dupe target is that high quality advice is available -- regardless of the score. There were several other near dupe pages, but this one serves the exact requirements.
 
10:03 PM
I'll fix the dupe target title after my meeting
 
10:18 PM
 
10:41 PM
That should be flagged as R/A, actually, IMO.
 
11:27 PM
@KarlKnechtel I had actually edited the dupe list for that question with another dupe which, although not PHP, is actually a good solution to the problem using regex (and has positive score). However that seems to be gone now.
 
11:38 PM
@Jonas you forgot the tag-...
 
@Nick ah, right.
 
(which of course should have been tag:)
 

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