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1:35 AM
Used all your votes already today?
 
I have...
 
 
3 hours later…
 
2 hours later…
6:40 AM
@SyedM.Sannan No, it is off-topic
 
Cow
@SyedM.Sannan Yeah Kubernetes is pretty much off topic and it's been discussed a lot of times before.
 
@SyedM.Sannan reopening just to reclose is also futile, just living with the wrong close reason is the only sustainable approach given how many users need to coordinate to pull off a successful reopen + reclose
 
Cow
Does any of you know if this is possible to move or flag to be moved? stackoverflow.com/questions/78178309/…
I don't see codereview in the list of migration sites
@tripleee the last comment looks like spam to me, the user is the owner of that site
 
thanks, flagged and watched in SD
@Cow in theory you could mod flag if you are certain, but the normal approach would be to just close it and leave it to the OP to figure out if it makes sense to repost there
 
Cow
@tripleee Thank you, I asked OP in comments to move it themselves
 
7:07 AM
@Cow tempting to report it...
 
Cow
yeah me2, but I'm in a good mood this morning
 
:)
 
Cow
but omg, someone suggested they use discussions
argh
/o\
 
Just as well spam can be flagged in discussions now...
 
Cow
haha
just opening discussions made my mood worse.. lol
those titles jesus
does upvotes on discussions generate reputation on the site like normal questions/answers?
 
7:17 AM
@Cow no
 
Cow
thank god
 
 
3 hours later…
11:16 AM
 
Cow
o/ @StephenOstermiller
how's mod life on SO?
 
probably queued up ...
 
Cow
HAHAHA
 
11:36 AM
@Vega @Cow I see. I actually never used Kubernetes and barely know what it even is so I couldn't tell.
@tripleee That makes sense too.
is there a reply feature in these chats? Would be good to have if somneone needs to reply to to an old message with its context
 
Cow
@SyedM.Sannan I'm not sure I understand what you mean
 
@SyedM.Sannan yes there is, click the arrow next to the message and click "reply to this message" i.stack.imgur.com/BojeN.png
if you are in mobile chat it looks slightly different, hover on the message and select the "arrow pointing back" icon at the top
@SyedM.Sannan also somewhat more expediently if you click on a message there is a hook right arrow near the right margin i.stack.imgur.com/NIl5T.png
(this particular room doesn't like inlined image "oneboxes"; sorry for the hassle of clickable links)
 
Cow
and the arrow next to the message is visible when you hover the mouse over the message itself
at least on my computer
 
yeah, sorry for skipping that part
I think there is probably an animation of this somewhere, maybe not in this room's FAQ
 
@Cow Depressing how many flags there are and how few I'm able to handle in a half hour of work.
 
Cow
11:49 AM
@StephenOstermiller damn :(
sorry to hear that
 
aggravatingly chat.stackoverflow.com/faq does not seem to mention replies or threading
 
Cow
@tripleee lol yeah that's weird
 
Plus it is robotics season, so I don't have a lot of free time to moderate for the next few weeks. I was away at a competition over the weekend and will be again next weekend. Then there is a four day competition coming up a week and half after that.
With another 20 moderators, we might be able to keep up with the flags.
 
Cow
@StephenOstermiller heh, real life always have first priority :)
@StephenOstermiller hahahaha
 
My other volunteer time commitment is as a software and strategy mentor for my high schools robotics team. I'm there 5 days a week from January until April. I build and run their scouting system. chiefdelphi.com/t/viper-scouting-app-2024/448739 As far a real life goes it is almost as surreal as SO.
2
 
Cow
11:56 AM
the fact that you are willing to do that is really nice, hats off for you
 
@tripleee ahh, is this the feature?
oh nvm wrong arrow I think
this one I think
oh
@Cow I think I figured it out
Got it
Thanks, both of you.
 
Cow
@SyedM.Sannan nice! I didn't know what you meant at first :)
 
glad I could help
 
12:13 PM
Always fun when my feed shows Friday's questions as "8 minutes ago". spams clear cache button
 
Cow
it's Friday!
oh wait :D
 
@TylerH The answers go in solutions?
 
12:28 PM
@Cow No, every day is Saturday
 
Cow
@HovercraftFullOfEels We cannot all be retired! :)
 
@Cow The song's mostly fine, although I can't stand the album cover.
 
Cow
@AndreasmovedtoCodidact heh, don't like the music either
 
It's mostly fine for me to find it passable. Not my preferred music. But hey, it doesn't hurt my ears like a lot of popular music does. :P
 
Cow
:D
 
Cow
arh, sorry
Wont happen again :)
 
High quality question there.
 
Stack Overflow would like to talk to you about your code's extended warranty...
2
 
Cow
hehe
 
1:02 PM
Is it no longer guaranteed to follow the latest trends?
 
Cow
1:14 PM
oh ok, never seen this before, but it's also my first one.
tag edit
 
The Full Edit Queue has been a known and often-discussed issue for some time.
 
Cow
@AdrianMole damn, that's a lot of topics
cannot wait to see how long it takes before it's active then
is it true that you need 5K reputation to approve tag edits?
 
Yes.
 
Cow
that's a lot
 
1:21 PM
tags are important
 
Cow
well yeah
that's why I edited one!
 
And you need 20k to be able to edit tags without approval.
 
Cow
holy moly!!
are there badges involved in tag edits?
 
... or a diamond after your username.
 
tags are also less immediately visible, so it would be easy (and common) for people to introduce spam or other bad contentwithout sufficient reputation
 
Cow
1:22 PM
yeah that is absolutely true
 
@Cow yes, two. Tag Editor and Research Assistant
for your first tag edit and 50 tags edited, respectively
 
Cow
@TylerH zomg! time to get busy
 
You can see all badges (including which ones you've earned) at stackoverflow.com/help/badges :-)
 
Cow
thank you sir
 
"Tag Editor" and "Research Assistant" (1 tag edit and 50 tag edits, respectively).
 
Cow
1:25 PM
@AdrianMole <3 thx also
 
1:38 PM
@Cow tangentially, imgur.com without the .stack wants to push an insane number of non-refusable cookies before it will display any images at all
 
Cow
huh??
please give an example of the URL, then I'll write it down
 
@Cow which URL? visit the link with a browser in incognito mode and wade through the cookie banner experience
 
Cow
@tripleee I don't know what you mean by without the .stack
 
Just open the browser console.
 
Cow
I got nothing on Firefox in incognito
no prompts or anything
It just opens
only 32 blocked stuff on uBlock
:D
still don't know what you mean about the .stack thing, if there's another way for me to write the link I'll gladly do it
 
1:46 PM
if you upload an image here it gets an i.stack.imgur.com URL which doesn't appear to force me to accept more cookies than I already accepted for Stack Overflow itself
there's an "upload ..." button next to the "send" box here in chat, though it's kind of cumbersome to use if you want to avoid a onebox
 
Cow
oh you can upload through the chat!?
 
so I often start composing a reply on a random question, upload the image there, and then copy the URL to chat and discard the answer
 
Cow
hmm
I'll try that next time, sorry for all the cookie spam, even though that kinda sounds yummy
 
Cow
ok got it
thanks
 
1:48 PM
@tripleee I forget which user script it is but I have one that turns pressing the up arrow into edit last message which makes it convenient to add a ! to the end to stop the one boxing
 
Cow
I feel like a noob now lol, don't remember ever using that upload button
 
@NathanOliver That's not a userscript.
@Cow It's not available on mobile.
 
@AndreasmovedtoCodidact oh, even better
 
Cow
@tripleee when I click upload after the dialog box, is it then posted instantly?
 
yep
 
Cow
1:56 PM
argh
better not be porn then
 
@Cow Do share.
 
Cow
haha
@AndreasmovedtoCodidact so where or what is this plugin you are referring to?
that automatically changes it to a text version
 
@Cow I wasn't speaking about an automated transcripting tool.
 
Cow
oh
so arrow up and add an exclamation mark?
I'm gonna mess this up 100%
rene is gonna be all over me
shrug
luckily it's time for me to pick up the kids
bbl
 
Don't pick them up with the arrow.
 
2:02 PM
And don't one-box the kids.
 
Then how else is he supposed to send the kids?
Divide them into several smaller boxes?
 
2:17 PM
Does anyone know which poor souls that are moderating the new Discussions thing? Volunteer mods? SO staff?
 
it was mentioned in Charcoal a week or two ago ...
in Charcoal HQ on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, Mar 6 at 10:58, by VLAZ
@jps No, I don't think any of them are in this room. But Dalija is in SOCVR, I think M-- shows up as well. Abdul can be found in the Meta room. If you really need to reah out.
 
> Discussions moderators are: Abdulla Nilam, Dalija Prasnikar, Laurel, M--, Thomas Markov, Wicket (updated Feb 7 2024).
 
@AndreasmovedtoCodidact Ah so volunteers... I don't envy them. I just wished to know if there was even a point in flagging crap there, or if all flags goes to some rank & file devs at SO-the-company.
 
@Lundin IIRC, 6 (4?) red flags (spam or rude) will delete a post in Discussions but there is no log of your flags.
 
It feels like one of them features that will never take off. To be successful, it should be more tightly coupled to the main Q&A I think. Like, have a discussions tab behind each Q&A where technical as well as meta stuff can be discussed.
 
2:28 PM
@Lundin No point in flagging crap at SO until SO management puts SO back on the right path again.
 
@AndreasmovedtoCodidact The right path according to them is the path with the most AI. Because... AI. So I don' think that will happen.
 
@Lundin But then you can’t discuss topics like this.
@Lundin Solution: flag stuff elsewhere.
 
"What's the most difficult/frustrating part of the life of a programmer?" Hmm well we had a power outage at work earlier today so I couldn't get more coffee.
 
So it wasn’t the inability to be programming…
 
2:43 PM
@Lundin That should be your excuse to go down the street to the coffee shop
 
@AndreasmovedtoCodidact Yes it was. As I said, I couldn't get coffee! images.fineartamerica.com/images/artworkimages/mediumlarge/3/…
@TylerH The whole town had a power outage, so... :)
 
ah, well, time to pack up and move!
lol
but definitely, emergency generators should be installed for the coffee machine
 
We have what seems like a half power-cut, at the moment. The LED lights come on (and still won't go out) but the fluorescent ones won't fire up. And the fans are working but only spinning ~half speed. But I think I can make coffee.
 
@AdrianMole voltage problem!
 
Yep. Not that rare around here, apparently.
 
2:53 PM
time for our weekly session of turning SOCVR into DIY.SE support :-P
 
Hehe. Fortunately, the WiFi router doesn't need much power/voltage.
And the A/C appears to be working in my room, which surprised me.
 
3:15 PM
 
Actually we have a UPS for the servers. I should obviously rewire that to the coffee machine.
 
@AdrianMole You probably have 230v service. It's worth getting a voltage tester to check
 
Does nobody have logs? Just put up a fire, and cook your stuff over it.
 
Cow
3:32 PM
oh tree logs, I was thinking of logs, like text logs on a computer
took me a while there
 
I thought the same thing at first. "Print logs and burn them? Wat?"
 
You can burn those, too. Just need to print them out first. Make sure you’re on a laptop and have a battery-powered printer…
 
@Machavity Modern problems need modern solutions
 
Cow
@Machavity yeah I was that place also
 
Guys, you guys have spent too much time in front of the computers. Go out for a walk in the forest!
 
3:34 PM
I can't see the forest for the logs
2
 
Cow
ROFL
we're literally blinded
 
Charcoal logs.
 
I have a version control log, a backlog...
 
Cow
better turn on log rotation
 
That way it burns better?
 
Cow
3:36 PM
haha
 
The version control log has branches and a trunk, if that helps?
 
@Lundin what about a blog?
 
No, that requires more space, ergo, more heat required.
And the backlog burns last.
@VLAZ Big log
 
It's a pretty big backlog, so maybe the dev burns before the backlog...
 
3:39 PM
When a log catches fire, does it log on?
 
Cow
@Machavity lol holy 1991 flashback
 
@AndreasmovedtoCodidact Definitely not if there is nobody around.
 
4:29 PM
 
5:20 PM
I flag this answer as NAA (duplicate of existing answer ~5 yrs before, with an existing comment explaining this). My flag is declined by a mod, and the question is then deleted by a mod. What gives?
 
@desertnaut it is an answer, so NAA is not appropriate. Down vote and delete votes are the way to go there. Also just blowing away the whole Q&A also works
you might be able to argue for a VLQ flag but that is more meant for gibberish, not an unhelpful late duplicate answer.
 
Cow
@desertnaut lol wtf
 
There was a second flag that got the deletion: "Same answer already present twice, "
Different mods btw
 
5:39 PM
@Machavity so, is a NAA flag appropriate here or is it not? I get a bunch of similar cases in the NAA review queue (we all do, I guess); if the NAA flag (that put them in the queue in the first place) is not appropriate, why am I supposed to vote for deleting them there?
 
@desertnaut The catch on NAA is we get TONS of those flags, and we tend to judge them based on if they merely look like an answer. We got lots of folks who are like "This answer is wrong. NAA flag!"
If an answer is a late retread, feel free to custom flag it as that. We do delete those
 
@Machavity custom flag???
 
Mod flag
 
So that it does not even go to the review queue???
I am seriously confused... so, when we (reviewers) meet such NAAs in the review queue (presumably as a result of someone flagging them as such), we are supposed to vote for deletion, while when mods meet them as a result of the same flag, they are supposed to decline the flag and keep them? @Machavity
and the response to the fact that mods get "TONS" of such NAA flags is to raise custom flags instead?
 
@desertnaut Let's back this up. The question was (truncated) "I am trying to import StandardScalar" and the deleted answer was
> you have typed "StandardScalar" , its "StandardScaler"
 
5:47 PM
@Machavity Yes. And there was a comment underneath that "Same solution as the one already provided in other answers. Please do not post duplicates"
 
That is an answer. Full stop. I would have declined it myself. The real problem there is that the question is 5 years old and there were three other answers that already explained it was a typo
@desertnaut But... it's still an answer. And the mod console (for better or worse) doesn't show comments
 
@Machavity so consequently, when I meet such cases in the review queue (duplicates, but answers indeed, as you correctly say), I should not vote to delete them, right?
and I am doing something seriously wrong if I do (vote to delete them) as part of my review...
 
There's a bit of a grey area there. For moderators, we have our own console. But I have zero problems with you 20k voting to delete those. Heck, ask the room to help join in.
Is delete voting in queue going to get you review banned? Probably not. I've never done that, and I don't think (even in brighter days) the mod crew ever had that much time
And the review queue does show comments, which makes that easier
 
the question is not if I need help (from the room or elsewhere) or if something can get me banned (so I should be careful) or not (so I can afford to be careless!)... the question is what is the rule here?
"And the mod console (for better or worse) doesn't show comments" - this explains a lot, but still...
 
The rule is "Not An Answer" flags are for answers that are not trying to answer the question
Most of the ones we get are folks with "Me too" answers, wanting to thank another answer, or folks who want to ask a similar but distinct question. That's why the flag exists.
 
5:58 PM
@Machavity up to there the situation seems to be clear; but I am asking about the review process here (the "grey area" as you say)
rigidly speaking, if I meet such dup answers in the queue, I should not vote for deletion! I should vote "looks OK"! Am I right, according to the rules?
 
If you find one in review, and it's something you would 20k delete anyways, I have no problem just voting to delete. Once in a while I run across one where I view the post and figure out it wasn't NAA and just delete for convenience. I'm sure the other mods do the same (the console makes deletion really convenient)
I'm just saying that if you flag it, you shouldn't rely on that. It's more likely to be declined than not if you need some context that's not present in the post itself
 
@Machavity I am not trying to be a smartass here, but "I have no problem just voting to delete" is not an answer to my question...
 
@desertnaut "I have no problem with reviewers just voting to delete" <- Clearer?
 
which (question) is what is the correct thing to do during reviewing such answers according to the rules?
@Machavity (no, this part was apparent :)
 
Ideally? Select "Looks OK" and then downvote and/or 20k delete. But I'm not going to ding folks for just letting the NAA delete do the same thing with fewer steps
If I thought the "disputed" result would have any impact on the flagger, I might be inclined to enforce it in some fashion, but the flagger is unlikely to ever see it.
 
6:07 PM
Why shouldn't you delete something you think is delete worthy just because you're in a queue where that isn't the intent?
 
@Machavity OK, this sounds like an answer...
 
@KevinB Because (and this is more diamond perspective than anything) we want folks to cast good flags. NAA flags are the wrong tool here, and I'd love it if the system did a better job of educating folks when their NAAs are not validated. But it doesn't so...
Honestly, I hope desertnaut is a better flagger for this. But they're a rare breed: the flagger who cares about why a flag wasn't validated
 
@KevinB I am not disputing the practical aspects (according to which doing so does not make any sense indeed). I am trying to check the internal consistency of our rules.
 
Is this ChatGPT plagiarism?
 
suspect, but i wouldn't go 100% positive without more evidence
 
6:11 PM
Turns out, someone flagging a dup as NAA is doing it wrong (as @Machavity has just affirmed) and me reviewing it with a delete vote am somehow rewarding this wrong behavior
and. one step further, I am doing it myself (i.e. flagging wrongly), and when my flag is justifiably declined, I come complalining... :(
 
@desertnaut Which highlights a bit of a catch-22. If you 20k it, and it's not been reviewed out, you validate the flag by deleting it
 
yes!! ^^
@Machavity so, correct me if I am wrong please: someone may get flag-banned only due to their flags declined by mods, right? Or also "declined" by review?
(not even sure if the latter actually exists...)
 
@desertnaut There's three states for post flags: helpful, disputed and declined. For NAAs, you get a disputed for reviewers disagreeing with your flags. I don't think anything bad can happen to you (at least in an automated way like review failures)
Declines can only be issued by a mod, IIRC (definitely for NAA, but sure on all flags)
 
so, disputed do not count for bans, right?
 
Not to my knowledge
A decline gets you a flag window notice for a week or so. Enough declines get you flag banned for... not sure of the duration
 
6:18 PM
@Machavity "Not to my knowledge" - hmm...
 
It takes a lot of declines to get a flag ban, tho
 
Anyway...
 
Cow
Reading all this, I don't think I've ever seen a mod describe and help this much before.
 
@Machavity your guidance has been very helpful; thank you for your time and patience
 
Cow
@Machavity you're pretty awesome man
 
6:22 PM
@desertnaut disputed does not count against you
 
@NathanOliver thanks
 
6:32 PM
Just as an FYI (on the typo question) I undeleted it and locked it. I suspect (based on the views) that particular typo is pretty common. Looks like a useful signpost at the bare minimum
 
Cow
7:10 PM
Undisclosed
 
7:23 PM
 
Cow
7:46 PM
@TylerH if you have time, please send chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/57197870#57197870 to the graveyard also, @desertnaut added disclosure and we all retracted flags.
 
Cow
thank you sir
 
Does this question need more focus?
 
Cow
IMO, yes
but 400+ votes is just asking for meta drama
 
It's fine for the time period, and quite useful. Nowadays it wouldn't fly
 
7:52 PM
I'm not so much concerned by the score, but I think the fact that it has been closed and reopened multiple times each means it should probably be closed again by Meta consensus rather than SOCVR.
including reopened once by Shog (who generally had a rather sensible viewpoint on whether something should be closed or not)
 
Cow
uh oh, ok, I didn't know that
 
@TylerH good point, I'll just leave it alone and save the hassle
 
 
2 hours later…
9:47 PM
@TylerH I couldn't justify a close vote, but it is certainly worth a downvote.
 
Yeah I mean...technically as tagged, that could be asking how to disable that via the API... I asked:
Are you asking how to do this programmatically via the API? — Ryan M ♦ 39 secs ago
 
10:06 PM
@RyanM It seems they want to do it twice! Maybe once programmatically and once from a UI?
 
That makes sense; you'd want to know how to do it via the UI so you can test that your code works with that
 

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