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12:19 AM
@Makyen Thanks for the thorough diagnosis. There are 'smart' switches on the same circuit(s) ... well, other lights on the same rings have switches that, in a 3-times on/off cycle, change the colour of the light. Those lights do go fully off, though. So, I guess we'll need to get the good guy back to do a more thorough re-wiring of the whole house. (Better to be safe than sorry.!)
 
I've worked with a dimmer switch that has a neutral but the light still doesn't go entirely out, for reasons that are not entirely clear to me.
I'm tempted to go have another look at that.
 
As for building codes/regulations in Laos ... they're vague, at best.
 
I live in a building that does not have neutral wires to the switches; said building was completed within the last decade.
 
@AdrianMole You don't, necessarily, need to rewire the whole house (i.e., change the wiring in the walls). You may only need to replace the smart switches with different smart switches, if there's a neutral wire for the switch's circuit in the box for the switch. If there already is an appropriate neutral wire in the box for the switch, it's also possible that the existing switches just need to be wired differently, but that depends on the type of switch.
@RyanM Yeah, it's a quite new change, which hasn't propagated everywhere, yet.
 
Hmm. What confuses me is that the problem only started after the guy did something to 'fix' the ground issue. At least, that's what I think he fixed. I'll get the wife to give him a call, to see what he has to say. Before, there may have been an issue with not having proper grounds, but at least the lights went out.
And all the switches are in the same few panels, near the trip-switch boxes, so I don't think there'll be any need (just now) to start digging through the walls.
 
12:38 AM
@Makyen Are you referring to section 404.2(C) of NFPA 70? I'm a little confused, because I found this page describing the change in much the same way you do, but I'm not sure that's what the code actually says... It appears to require a grounded conductor to be run to such switches (due to, apparently, some of these devices intentionally putting voltage through to the ground connection?), not the neutral conductor.
(disclaimer that mostly I'm not especially familiar with electrical codes outside of specific things I've researched in the past, so I may be misreading it)
 
1:05 AM
@AdrianMole I could see adjusting something that affects this issue as "fixing" a ground issue, depending on the definitions used and assuming a substantial amount of simplification.
 
... and, add to that, the fact that my Lao is not so good and neither is my wife's English, and that the missus doesn't really understand technical/electrical stuff.
 
Yep.
 
All part of the great tapestry of fun that is moving home!
 
:)
 
2:03 AM
@desertnaut I just needed to be notified that the score went from -2 to -3 so that I could vote.
 
2:22 AM
^^^ In the audit list. I didn't pass, but I disagree with the assessment.
 
@NotTheDr01ds Hmm. At the very least, that should be edited. I was one of the delete voters but I can see how you may disagree.
 
@RyanM The "grounded circuit conductor" is the wire that is color coded as white or gray (200.5, 200.6, and 200.7)and is what is commonly called "neutral". The code uses "neutral" much more specifically, and interchangeably in some situations, which is confusing.
 
@AdrianMole Agree it could be better. I've been declined on an NAA flag on something almost identical, though, which is why I went with "looks okay" ;-)
And in retrospect, I think the mod made the right call declining my flag.
 
2:39 AM
@Makyen Hmm. In the UK, all mains outlets have three pins/holes: Live, neutral and earth (ground). In the US (IIRC), plugs are just 2-pin, so is the neutral used also as a ground? (Seems weird.) In Laos, 3-pins are used on newer plugs but many older appliances are still 2-pin. All the wall sockets in our house are old-style, 2-pin. But, for lights, even in the UK, there are only two wires.
My understanding is that, for AC power supplies, the "neutral" line imparts (approximately) half voltage.
 
@AdrianMole Edited - I'm no fan of "reinstall" answers, but the user's right - That was one of the solutions in the Github issue they linked, and if it worked for them ... ;-)
 
@NotTheDr01ds Yeah, agreed. I was a bit hasty in that review. I have now voted to undelete. Your edit is a definite improvement.
 
Thanks!
 
@AdrianMole No, neutral is the return path for the current. Ground is connected at each outlet (or, it should be. Older homes may not have used ground wires), and all grounds should run back to the main panel, same as the neutrals, and be bonded at (and only at) the main panel together, typically on a ground bar/bus, which should then have a much heavier gauge wire (e.g. 8 gauge or 6 gauge wire) that runs to a grounding rod of copper or aluminum that is buried 8 feet into the ground, outside
ground is for whenever there is an overcurrent event, and is intended to provide a direct path for the current to ground
e.g. literally the earth
@AdrianMole yes, that's typically the case, although it's not necessarily half voltage in the US, but full. Using the neutral as a second 'hot' leg is considered "double" voltage.
Things like A/C units or other high voltage appliances often need two 'hot' legs for the amount of voltage current they carry
 
2:46 AM
@TylerH Just after moving in, we bought an electric shower heater and the guy who came round to install it had to make a whole new ground line, because of the lack of one in the main house circuit. That is a ~6-foot pole in the flower bed outside, with a thick wire running into the bathroom.
 
in those cases, in the US, you should either use /3 wire with two hots built-in or mark the white-coated neutral wire with black or red marker or electrical tape in multiple spots to signify the wire as hot
@AdrianMole that sounds like a good ground rod then :-)
often in the US older homes or homes not wired to code will have no ground rod, or will have copper wire running to some metal pipe that is in contact with the ground under their house (where there are crawlspaces or basements)
in the past they often connected the ground wire from the main panel to the water pipes as those were often cast iron, but that's not allowed anymore
 
Yep! We make similar ones in our lab, back in Glasgow, so we don't have to rely on the "noisy" mains-supplied ground lines. For equipment with which we measure extremely small currents (we use units of picoamps).
 
in part because many pipes are no longer cast iron, so it's not an effective ground path
 
I guess plastic water pipes make very poor ground sinks. :)
 
for what it's worth DIY.SE does have many good electrical folks for wiring/electrical questions
:-)
if you need an in-depth answer or help for your LED or other questions
 
2:51 AM
@AdrianMole In the US, most semi-current outlets have 3 pins/holes (quite old ones may be only 2). What caries power are the "ungrounded conductors" (commonly called "line"). The current returns on the "grounded conductor" (commonly called "neutral" and is often actually neutral). The third pin/hole is the "Grounding Conductor, Equipment (EGC)" (commonly called "ground"), which is intended for ground fault protection and doesn't normally carry current. That's the terminology that's used in the electrical code. As I said above, it's confusing, due to the specificity and desire for the electrical code to apply to many different wiring plans (including residential, commercial, and industrial).
 
Well, before I raised this issue in here, I wasn't sure if I was confused or not. At least, now I know that I am confused.
 
@TylerH You're not permitted to mark a white wire as hot (200.7). You can mark a non-white, non-gray wire as neutral, but not the other way around. If the white wire is in a cable, then you can mark it as hot, if it's appropriately marked permanently at both ends.
 
So, the guy who came round while I was away seems to have separated the "ground" and "neutral" lines at some point, and there is now some small 'leakage' into the neutral line that is keeping the LEDs glowing slightly.
 
3:11 AM
@AdrianMole Not quite. The small amount of "leakage", which that type of smart switch requires, is leakage from the hot line at the switch into the "switched hot", which then goes to the bulb(s) and through the bulb(s) to the neutral. The LED bulbs remain lit because the leakage is enough for them to have visible light. If it was an incandescent light, the leakage would still be there, but it wouldn't be enough to produce light you can see.
Please keep in mind that we're describing only the most likely situation. There's other things that could be causing the issue, but they are notably less likely.
Also, we're only guessing at what the guy actually did which was termed as "fixing the ground". Actually, we're not guessing at what he did, just the current state.
 
@Makyen Look at 200.7(C)(1). An A/C unit or anything in the US in a home is going to be over 50 volts (120 is standard, but for heavy things like A/C it is often 240 volts). It is permitted (and extremely common practice, unless you want to pay for pulling out existing 10/2 wire and running more expensive 10/3 in its place every time you encounter this) to tape or mark an ungrounded white wire for such cases (e.g. 2nd hot leg) at both terminations
 
@TylerH Yes, that's what I said (when they system eventually allowed me to edit my prematurely sent first version). Admittedly, I could have been clearer in indicating that clarification.
Hmmm... perhaps what wasn't clear is that 10/2 and 10/3 (or other X/2 or X/3) is a cable.
 
Yeah, 99.9% of the time for residential cases, the wires are going to be in a cable; anything after 1950 or so is going to be braided cable, and anything after 1970 or so will be NM rubber (e.g. romex). Rare is the case where someone runs conduit in a residential build. An exception could be outdoor conduit running THWN underground, but you would not double up hot legs w/ existing wire on that--in conduit it is fairly easy to pull a new wire when you need another one
and now I need to go to bed and dream about how I am going to handle some JSON data that uses integers for key names when I need to map these keys to variables in a class with the same name...
 
3:35 AM
fun :)
 
 
3 hours later…
6:50 AM
Above was previously posted as a cv-pls for off-site recommendations but is really just a thinly veiled plug for the WP Travel plugin
 
Cow
shrug
 
@KarlKnechtel it has a spam link in it already...
 
in the question?
 
@KarlKnechtel never mind :-P didn't read carefully...
 
Cow
hehe
 
6:56 AM
Eh, not seeing it being a spam seed...
 
Cow
uh oh mod entered the chat
 
I'm always here, lurking...
except when I'm not.
 
but how do we know???
 
Cow
yeah we need some sort of indication :D
 
7:11 AM
@Makyen Ah, you're right, thank you... I was confusing the "Grounded Conductor" (AKA neutral, AKA the wire that I've always seen be white) with the "Equipment Grounding Conductor" (AKA the ground wire, AKA the wire that I've always seen be green).
That makes everything make sense. Well, other than why they thought that naming was a good idea, or why the states that adopt these codes think it's fine for them not to be searchable without paying money...
 
 
 
1 hour later…
Cow
9:11 AM
zomg I answered a question
 
Cow
9:55 AM
slurps coffee
If a Cow drinks excessive amounts of coffee and jumps around happily after, does that mean the utters will contain cafe-latte afterwards?
this is a very serious question as you can probably see
(please don't ban me)
 
10:52 AM
@NotTheDr01ds I agree on it not being NAA. undeleted and NLN-flagged the comments
 
11:12 AM
 
12:05 PM
Morning
 
Cow
Morning @NathanOliver
 
12:17 PM
^^^ Now that is an odd coincidence. Look at two of the close votes on my dupe target :-)
 
Could someone have a closer look at this? https://stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/35764113
The link in the version before the edit is considered "badware" by uBlock Origin. The link in the suggested edit is not, but perhaps this should point to https://github.com/topjohnwu/Magisk instead. I have no idea which of these to trust.
 
Should this question be reopened? I can't agree 100% with the formal close reason but I'm not confident enough to cast (yet) a reopen vote (it's in the review queue). Seems like a discreet question with a succinct answer.
 
@ThierryLathuille why would that necessitate closure? This doesn't make the question unanswerable
 
Cow
@legoscia reject and edit it, those edits are spam.
 
1 message moved to SOCVR /dev/null removed for invalid close reason
 
Cow
12:53 PM
@legoscia I changed the link manually
@AdrianMole that existing link was also spam or taken over
 
@Cow Thanks!
 
'@Dharman That's right. So, in case an answer gets posted and the OP deletes his question, we could just ask for it to get undeleted?
 
correct
you can flag and ask a mod to undelete it
we consider this a vandalism
 
Thanks! (The question just got deleted by its author anyway...)
 
There are Meta posts about Q/As that break rules (of sites or schools). In some cases, representatives of the respective sites/schools/colleges have requested take-downs, but that's not something 'ordinary' curators (or even elected moderators) should be concerned with. That's for CMs and other paid staff.
 
12:58 PM
Yeah, that's a legal matter. We always decline such flags. The copyright owner needs to file a legal DMCA request with the company.
 
1:09 PM
@AdrianMole it doesn't look reopenable to me. What is "like this"? It looks like it's asking for recommendations too.
 
1:30 PM
@Dharman Fair enough. I just don't think that asking a specific question like that is (really) seeking recommendations. It's seeking a factual answer .... maybe.
 
1:42 PM
hi
 
so
 
no
 
ha
 
Cow
1:44 PM
toxic, let the dude ask their question :D
or maybe so = stack overflow?
oh no /o\
hides in the mountains
 
If you run to the hills, then hills won't hide you; if you run to the sea, then the sea will not cover you...
 
Cow
are you referencing my obeseness ?
saying I'm so big now I cannot hide anywhere?
don't get too close then, you might go into orbit
 
Cow
oh nice, listening now
@AdrianMole 1965, dude, how old are you!?
:o
dad?
is that you?
10 mins of this is not possible for me, sorry, not my taste in music
 
do - A sound that Homer make
re - Somebody's Last Jedi
mi - The one I love the most
fa - A game about a cry
so - Internet program site
la - A big SoCal city
ti - A class of GPU
And that brings us back to do (doh doh doh)
2
 
1:53 PM
@starball is this a cv-pls request?
 
Cow
@Machavity which song is this then?
 
@Machavity Nice
ti - a drink to start my day
 
so - a word to start all questions with
 
@Cow Probably more famous in the US. It's from the Sound of Music. One of the best known songs
 
Cow
@AdrianMole this is the best I can do for that period in time youtube.com/watch?v=3Y_ss81uDyA
@Machavity listening now
 
1:56 PM
@NotTheDr01ds good effort on getting that Sass/Angular question into shape! Except... it is a duplicate... 🙃 :-)
 
@TylerH No worries - I had a feeling there might be a good dupe-target out there. But really no way of telling until/unless it got whipped into shape ;-)
 
Cow
@Machavity I can honestly write, that I've never seen this in my life
@Machavity pretty cute, it even won an academy award, that's pretty cool
 
@Cow And @starball had never heard of Zork. What is the world coming to? ;-)
 
Cow
sorry :D
being obese, you should see my music taste, it's really bad
 
@Cow 5 actually
 
2:00 PM
@Machavity Very famous in Salzburg, Austria, too. On a trip there with some pals, a good few years ago, a guy rushed out into the street from his "Mozart" shop, crying, "Come buy some Mozart Balls (sic) chocolate. He is the most famous Austrian ever!" ...
 
Out of curiosity, can a 10k+ user tell me how many deleted spam/trash/trolling/offensive answers are on this question?
 
... I replied, "Maybe not quite. There's the von Trapp family and that other guy..."
 
@CPlus 6 deleted
3 for being spam/R-A
 
So it was quite the low-quality and spam magnet
 
@NotTheDr01ds Zork... is that the character from the tv show, Zork and Mindy?
;-)
 
2:02 PM
@TylerH Lol - I know you know better :-)
 
I never played Zork but I did play some text adventure games as a kid
 
Cow
dunno what Zork is
 
You are in a field to the west of a big white house. A small mailbox is here.
 
You are likely to be eaten by a grue
 
2:04 PM
I guess, thinking back through the acquisition history, that the IP is now owned by Microsoft ...
Infocom, IIRC, was bought by Activision, became Blizzard/Activision, and is now part of the Borg.
 
I have actually embedded a converted C++ version of "Dungeon" as an Easter Egg in one of my published programs. I'm sure nobody has yet discovered it, though.
 
Cow
@TylerH hm, might've seen it before, never tried it, was born in 80, so out of my range I think
 
The 'original' was written in the (early) 1970s, in Fortran IV. (By a "paranoid DEC engineer".)
 
@NotTheDr01ds Youngins
 
I first encountered it on a VAX/VMS system, in the 80s.
 
2:07 PM
+ Open mailbox
 
Brilliant game!
 
I bought it and MS Flight Simulator (1.0) the same day.
 
@aynber Opening the mailbox reveals: a leaflet.
 
Hmm, I have a disk of Infocom games. I'll have to see if I can still play it. Load it on my linux box
+ Take leaflet
 
@Cow sure, I was born in '90, so it was out of my time as well, but for decades text-only adventure rpgs were pretty popular :-)
 
2:08 PM
Wonder if we could rewrite the Z-Machine emulator as an SE chatbot :P
 
I don't think I ever did play Leather Goddesses of Phobos
 
@aynber Sure .... sure you didn't ...
 
@aynber fun fact, you could re-register the infocom trademark today if you wanted. Activision apparently abandoned it over 20 years ago
 
@aynber Taken.
 
/w
Was it + w?
 
2:11 PM
Just w . The + was supposed to be the prompt. I suppose I could have used >
I wonder if I could find the HHGTTG text game somewhere...
 
@aynber Ohhhh, right
 
that one drove me batty when I was a kid. I kept getting stuck, and it was pre-internet
 
If my CD still works, I have the collection (if I could find it)
I got stuck on all of them :-/
 
I think I got stuck on Zork, too. My dad only had a handful of Infocom games
@NathanOliver Nice!!
Great, there goes my day... gotta hide this from the boss
 
Cow
2:16 PM
<3
 
Oh goodness, I just started combing through my decades on CD collection ... Quake 2, OS/2, ...
 
Cow
I got Quake 2 also
best soundtrack
 
@NotTheDr01ds I had Quake 1, Starcraft, Worms 2... good times
 
Can't remember which Quake I had. I know we played it at work quite a bit
Doom. 7th Guest, though by the time I got around to playing it, my computer was too fast for it
 
@TylerH yeah I'm on a machine where I don't have the userscript installed and was lazy and also forgot that there was a required format. sorry!
 
Cow
2:23 PM
Yeah I played a lot of Doom, UFO: Xcom Enemy Unknow and many other
 
Speaking of soundtracks, I still have "I'm a Mechanical Man" from Red Alert living in my head rent free.
 
Cow
@StephenOstermiller hehe I have over 5000 hours in Red Alert on steam
 
Back when I played it it was on CD. There was no such thing as steam.
 
@NotTheDr01ds I dunno. maybe I'm too young? I'll wager most of the people I studied with haven't heard of it either... or maybe I'm just projecting myself onto them.
 
Cow
@StephenOstermiller I got the original CD also!
 
2:26 PM
Nice!
 
I have never played doom either and just barely know what it is because programmers like to do stuff with it.
 
@aynber I guess so.
me reading this transcript like- "what the heck is an 'infocom'?". can chalk up to generation and my lack of historical culturing.
 
@starball I'm just hassling you. I guarantee I've missed some key pieces as well. It's more a testament to how certain "memes" (that were memes before they were even known as memes) have fallen out of memory. "Grue" being one of them :-)
> The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again. - Robert Jordan
Or ...
> some things that should not have been forgotten were lost. History became legend. Legend became myth. - Galadriel in LotR (movie version)
And I found my Infocom Classic Text Adventure Masterpieces CD ... But no HHGttG on it :-/
Aw dang - Okay, I found the jewel case. No idea where the CD is :P
 
2:40 PM
No, the rights had already reverted when that came out
I had that one too
 
2:51 PM
Beware the Ides of March! ... Should I be approving a Visual Studio update, today?
 
@AdrianMole et tu, Adrian Mole?
 
Well, the update is - if not Brutus - then brutal.
2.47 GB.
 
3:04 PM
@aynber please don't one-box ...
 
@rene Honestly no idea how that happened. Guess I should have added text before/after? all I did was copy the URL
 
M--
@Machavity a mod question, if you don't mind. While handling flags, if you edit the post, does that resolve/dismiss the flags?
Or any other mods who have had encountered that scenario; here, on stackApps (looks for the flower), elsewhere
 
@aynber I reformatted it as markdown for you
 
3:20 PM
@M-- Hmm. Interesting. I've seen posts in LQA review that have been edited by a mod - but I can't say, for sure, that it was after the flag that sent it there was raised. (But, without evidence to the contrary, if a mod has edited and left it, then I will cast a "Looks OK" verdict in that review queue.)
Note that an edit from within the LQA queue will complete that review, whether it is from a mod or a mere mortal. But edits outside the queue don't have that effect - at least, not for posts flagged as NAA. Dunno what happens with VLQ flags, which are automagically marked 'helpful' after an OP edit.
 
@M-- VLQ flags do that (not because we're mods tho). Comment flags also clear upon being edited
 
Also, anecdotally, I once had raised an NAA flag on a post and the mod who handled it chose to go into the LQA review queue and edit it, rather than decline my flag.
 
@StephenOstermiller Great, thanks
see how often I paste links :-D
 
No other flags clear with an edit that I know of. Mod flags on a post survive until cleared or the post is deleted by a diamond
 
@Machavity Hmm. You're saying that even custom mod flags get auto-cleared by deletion? That doesn't sound right. What about flags raised that challenge spam flags?
... or flags raised on already-deleted posts?
 
3:27 PM
@AdrianMole Depends what you mean. If you mean flagging a diamond deleted post, that flag would survive until cleared or the mod undeleted and re-deleted
Community auto-clears red flags upon 4 community flags (or 1 mod flag)
 
But, if I see a post that has been (say) reported by SD and has what appears to be a few spam flags, but I think it ain't spam and I raise a mod flag, then will my flag be cleared (and marked helpful) if it gets "community" deleted? That seems just plain wrong, if it is so.
I was under the impression that custom mod flags are never deleted automatically.
 
@AdrianMole Hmm. I don't think Community clears mod flags cast like that, but I'm not 100% sure
 
Well, you are now formally invited into the, "Confused? ... You soon will be!" club.
 
M--
@Machavity thank you, does that only happen to VLQ flags? I know spam and custom flags won't clear (I actually posted the feature request for that a couple of years ago), but what about NAA ones for instance?
 
@M-- NAA does not clear on edit (which is sometimes problematic in the mod console, as the notice the post was edited can be easy to miss)
 
M--
3:40 PM
Even for VLQ, why the system wouldn't let the mods handle the flag rather than assuming an edit means the flag is handled.What if one wants to decline the flag?
 
@AdrianMole I'm 99% sure they survive a red flag deletion. Maybe @Makyen knows, since Smokey would be the most likely place where that would happen
 
I'll wait for the essay from Makyen, then. :-)
 
M--
Lol
 
"Flags and Resolution" - A three volume treatise on flagging, moderation, and the perpetual angst of moderators
 
Could a mod please inform me in chat how many total close votes I have? Here I can only see how many close votes on undeleted posts I have.
 
3:45 PM
@CPlus I show 5520
 
Thanks
How about reopen votes?
 
803
 
Thanks
 
thank god for the grace period. let's me re-edit a question and change the edit revision when I accidentally say things like "solutions don't go in answers" ...
 
4:17 PM
Tricky one, IMHO - NAA or no? The OP thought it was NAA, and said so in the answer. You can see from the edit history that I've changed my mind already at least once on this.
 
@NotTheDr01ds It's not an answer, it's commentary on the other answer
the other answer which, as it happens, doesn't directly address the question asked...
 
@TylerH That's my conclusion. I flagged for "Mod attention" with a note that it was NAA but probably contains useful information that could be converted to a comment (something Mods have done many times before), but got completely declined on it being NAA in the first place ...
I think the reviewing Mod probably read it the same way I did at first, that the second paragraph was new information that warranted an answer, but it's still related to the other answer.
 
you can't always expect a mod to get something with nuance right. Most of the time they handle flags without going to the actual post being flagged
 
Agreed - I just wanted to double-check :-)
 
The mod could have also just declined the custom flag because it said 'NAA' and they may have just felt you should use an NAA flag for NAAs
 
4:24 PM
I already reflagged
@TylerH Possibly - Never had that happen before in about a dozen other similar ones, though.
But we have more than a dozen mods, soooo. .... :-)
 
and mods that aren't Makyen are also human :-P
 
TIL
;-)
I do think it's a tricky one if not read closely (which I didn't at first).
 
@NotTheDr01ds I saw a flag in the queue and I thought it must have been discussed here. I did not handle the initial NAA, but I handled the custom flag now.
The question is unclear and lacks debugging details. We don't know if they are using imghdr. For all we know the problem might have been due to deprecated library
 
Yes, the error shown in the question implies that the image data may be corrupt or non-existent (I would guess, my Django is rusty), so the question of determining the image's type is moot.
 
4:53 PM
@aynber yeah, it is a bit of hit-and-miss. I think the official list of sites that onebox is kept here: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/57286/… but there are many more bugs where things that should no longer do onebox, so you're always in for a surprise with any bare link .. no worries, we're good.
I think I'm done editing that message.
 
@Dharman Lol - good call on figuring it might be brought up here, of course! And thanks for reviewing.
@Jonas I've always wondered if there's a good Meta discussion on why "installing from source" is not programming, but I've never found one. Anyone know?
I'd like to be able to reference that in comments when I VTC.
 
5:08 PM
@NotTheDr01ds installing from source? this is about installing using a whole bunch of CLI commands. See e.g. the guide linked in that question. This requires sys-admin and networking skills, not an easy thing.
 
@Jonas Yeah, definitely the wrong example to use for this - Just made me think of it.
Sorry, shouldn't have linked that one as a reply.
 
@NotTheDr01ds I think this is the most spot-on meta question meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/386504/…
 
5:33 PM
@Jonas Thanks - That's a good one. For the "installation from source" style, I found and answered this one so I can point users to it when I VTC.
 
6:06 PM
@NotTheDr01ds what do you mean by installing from source?
 
@TylerH Compiling/building/installing from source code rather than pre-built binaries. Example, but just because it's a project I work with; not that I've seen any questions here about building from source for this particular one.
I'm a user of Nushell, not someone contributing to the Rust code. So if I had an issue building from source, it wouldn't be on-topic here.
 
Why would building a library from source not be on topic? Isn't that clearly something only a programmer would do?
 
@TylerH Building a library from source would be. Building an application would not be.
 
I don't see the difference in what you're building from source
If you are compiling something, whether you wrote it or someone else wrote it, compiling code into an executable is still a programming task
or are we also going to ban all questions people ask about code they found somewhere else (and honestly if you say 'yes' I'm not sure I'd have an issue with that...)
 
For instance, I seem to recall a GEMMA question from a Ph. D. student who was doing their doctorate and wanted to build from source because, according to that page, "can potentially boost performance of GEMMA when using specialized C++ compilers and numerical libraries."
That's a non-programmer asking how to install the software from source, not a programmer who is asking a development question.
 
6:17 PM
If you're doing a programming task, you're a programmer
we don't care what peoples' jobs are here, only what their question is asking
 
But it's not a development question. It's a "how do I install" question.
 
well, I'd have to see the specific question to say for sure
but building code from source is not really "installing"
 
For some projects, that don't provide pre-built binaries, it's the only way to install.
 
how do you build code from source? I haven't ever done it, but I assume you need an IDE and the source code, no?
 
6:20 PM
How do you build from source then?
 
You run the commands at the command-line that the README tells you to. It's just a "recipe", not something you need programming expertise to do.
E.g., given the Nushell example I used above, nushell.sh/book/installation.html#build-from-source
 
OK, if a question is just a matter of running a few commands from a command line, I would not consider that question a programming matter. But I am pretty sure I have seen code before that has to be built inside an IDE. I think the answer of whether it's programming-related insofar as being on-topic here is a matter of what they're building and in what language, etc.
 
Install dependencies, install Rust, (e.g., curl --proto '=https' --tlsv1.2 -sSf https://sh.rustup.rs | sh), rustup, cargo install nu
If someone gets an error from the compiler because they don't have a dependency, that's just "configuration", IMHO
 
If something requires a C++ compiler or, for example, Visual Studio to build, and you have a question about that build process, that's clearly on-topic to me, even if you aren't a programmer and have never written a line of C++ in your life (and never plan to after this).
 
See that's where I disagree. That's not programming either, even if the project is built with C++. You are installing that project using their instructions, not developing it.
E.g., GEMMA
 
6:24 PM
we'll have to agree to disagree, then. I think I agree w/ you in some cases, but not as a blanket rule
 
(and plenty of others)
I'll keep an eye out for examples - I tend to only see one every few months, because they often come up in the WSL tag.
You are right that there's a fine line. For example, when I was building Nushell, I wanted to know if there's a way in Rust to determine what the --feature flags to Cargo for a package might be. That, I think, is a programming question.
(And the answer was here on SO, iirc)
 
./configure; make; make install -- that's the majority of the building from source
 
@aynber Agreed
Or cargo build, etc. nowadays
 
6:39 PM
@desertnaut Doesn't look like it to me unless there's an undisclosed affiliation that we don't know about.
 
@NotTheDr01ds yeah, that was my first thought too - thanks
 
6:55 PM
remind me please - are there guidelines for questions updated to include the answer? stackoverflow.com/questions/78167178/…
 
 
1 hour later…
Cow
8:00 PM
In a weird reality, is this in any way a rude comment? Being non English, I'm not 100% sure if this is meant in a negative way or just for fun (which probably shouldn't be there either?) stackoverflow.com/questions/78169274/…
 
@Cow Childish retort
 
Cow
I'll flag it then
@aynber thanks :)
 
8:28 PM
@genpfault although I, too, would love to have this closed (and already voted), please notice that this is not eligible for cv-pls requests here, as it was last modified ~6 years ago
 
Cow
@genpfault you can cv-pls old questions here instead: chat.stackoverflow.com/rooms/253110/cv-pls-old-questions
 
9:09 PM
@NotTheDr01ds I really fail to see why this should be migrated to Stats SE.
or Stats SE wasn't the suggestion?
 
9:36 PM
@desertnaut Both migration votes were for Super User
 
 
1 hour later…
10:56 PM
Weird question: if I got the accepted answer to a question working in a somewhat different context than the OP was working in, should that be a comment or a separate answer?
 
@EJoshuaS-StandwithUkraine I would say a comment
 
@rene Thanks, I wasn't sure.
 

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