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2:04 AM
@bad_coder You may want to remove that, even if it made me smile. I think it will be perceived as kind of chatty :)
 
@Scratte aahhrrgg, it adds that "personal dimension" to SO which a new member will probably find useful. The post will roomba if closed regardless of number of comments, right?!
 
@bad_coder Perhaps.. there's still time to post an Answer, no? :D
 
@Scratte mmmhhh, duplicate. I really don't like the 2 answers on the duplicate target. They are too complicated (could be easier) and the formal demonstration could also be broken down better.
 
I don't think it's the harmonic series though. It seem to be more like a 1/n + 1/2n + 1/4n..
 
2:12 AM
@Scratte Arrgghh, it's been decades...I'd have to hit the text books to make sure.
 
Hmm.. that previous thing was incorrect. It's N + N(1/2 + 1/4 + 1/8...) = 2N
It's a geometric series, specifically this one
 
@Scratte yeah exactly, you better post as a comment on the thread (best I could do spending less than 1 minute - really don't have much more time to spend.)
 
@bad_coder I think.. it's homework :) Which is why I just said they could run it.. I'm devious like that.
And given the title is not very searchable, I think Roomba will not take any value away. You were right about the complexity, obviously :)
 
2:29 AM
@Scratte I must be getting old, I had all these demonstrations memorized...
 
@bad_coder It's normal. Do you use them every day? :)
 
@Scratte not lately
 
..except today :D I only remember is because it's my favorite of all the convergent series.
 
@Scratte I actually have an experimental algorithm to break down, but it's low on my priority list.
 
I do it to napkins when I'm bored in a meeting..
 
2:49 AM
@cigien Why did that have to go so soon? Did they not respond?
 
@Scratte Do you mean to your comment on the question? No.
Is one day not enough time to clarify?
 
@cigien Normally a post will Roomba in 10 days when it's closed if it has no Answer. I know people like to delete them faster, but it wasn't completely useless.
 
@Scratte Oh, I'm sorry. It does have an answer, and I thought it had a positive score, but apparently not. +1/-1
 
@Scratte have you given up staying below 2k?
 
@cigien Makyen also had quite a nice solution in a comment there.
 
2:55 AM
@cigien Tu falas português?
 
@bad_coder Yes and no.. It's a struggle.
 
@Scratte Oh, wait. My close reason says Accepted answer :P I can't figure out from the revision history if that's correct. Can a 10k+er take a look please?
 
@Scratte haha the man is struggling :) tell us about your struggles.
 
@Scratte So? If it helped the OP, that's great, but we don't care about that, right?
 
@cigien "we don't care about that"... (what's wrong with that sentence?)
 
2:58 AM
@bad_coder No, no one in my immediate family speaks it, and I didn't take it in school.
 
@cigien I found it useful. Especially with the title. It's exactly what the post is about. Did anyone check it the Question author has been active since we left the comments?
 
@cigien what do you speak as a first language? Hindi?
 
@bad_coder It seems that if I go below, then.. vupti.. I'll get over again.
 
@Scratte did you get tiered of down voting? (I can't be bothered to DV except in excruciating cases. I'd also end up looking like "a hater" :P )
 
@Scratte I know we don't agree about what answers are valuable, but I'm pretty sure we don't preserve posts because it has valuable comments. If they're that valuable, then they should be converted to an answer. Since it was Makyen's comment you found useful, I'm happy to ask them if they want to do that.
 
3:03 AM
@bad_coder Not really. I just find it's hard to find really bad Answers. So I'll spend an hour or two to just gather enough to get under 2K.
 
@Scratte I don't really know what the timeline is for waiting on an OP's response. I didn't actually look to see if they've been active.
 
@cigien Well.. that's not entirely what I meant. I found both the Question, the Answer and Makyens comment useful :) And I played around with the solutions in the other two comments as well.
 
@Scratte You could take a random approach and "spread the hate" :P
 
@Scratte I understand that. But to clarify, you're disputing the deletion. right?
 
@cigien I expect they were probably not, since it's Saturday.. they may have responded on Monday.
@cigien I can't even do that. I can't un-delete..
 
3:06 AM
@cigien It's undefined, but perhaps "waiting" in itself would be of fairness.
 
The point I'm trying to make is that it may not have been at all necessary to delete it. Give the author a few days to clarify. It wasn't a bad post at all. It just needed to clarify a few points.
@bad_coder Yes. I could. Downvoting a post that has a score of 2500 is not likely going to get noticed even.
I may get some unfavorable responses if I post a comment saying "-1 because I need the rep reduction.. sorry."
 
"Should this question be reopened? It was initially closed as not constructive" <- I'm surprised to learn "not constructive" is a closing criteria.
 
@bad_coder I think it used to be. A long time ago. It probably got removed for not being constructive :D
 
@Scratte @bad_coder Ok, if I understand what y'all are saying, the claim is that the post was decent, and one day is not enough for the OP to respond with a clarification, especially given the weekend. Is that correct? If so, I disagree on both points. I'll try to see if I can find any posts on meta discussing this though, and read up on that.
 
@Scratte You know what they say about leaving comments regarding your CVs. I think you should do that, it'd be the possible alternative to deleting "the old stuff" or, at least, balancing it by way of votes.
 
3:12 AM
@bad_coder I'm a native English speaker, funnuly enough :p
 
Yes, that's what I'm saying. If you find a post on meta saying it has to be deleted as soon as possible, post a link so I can put my opinion on that. (in whichever way I find most effective..)
 
@cigien wait a minute, you're saying "1 day is enough", even if "it's the weekend", Now why doesn't that make sense from a logical POV?
 
@Scratte Sure thing :)
 
I'd have given it at least until Monday..
 
@Scratte it's of the upmost urgency it be deleted within the hour on a Sunday.
 
3:13 AM
@bad_coder Yes.. exactly. I don't get it at all.
 
Ok, no worries, I'll look on meta. It's probably been discussed before, and I'm happy to go with the consensus. And if there isn't a meta on this, I'll post one. I can probably think of a witty title having to do with weekends ;)
 
@Scratte As soon as I reach 10K, the most effective way will be a delete vote.
@cigien How about just thinking about it for a while? Does it make sense to delete it as soon as possible?
 
@cigien it is of the upmost urgency you do that.
 
I'm tired and.. this is just not making me happy at all. I'm off..
 
@Scratte Why not? Why wait? And for how long? Why just the weekend? And it's thanksgiving next week, so why not wait till that's done? How about Christmas? I know this sounds facetious, but I'm asking sincerely. Do you follow any rule? Or is it just a gut feeling on a per post basis?
 
3:19 AM
@cigien why the urgency?
 
@cigien I usually check to see there has been a response from author. If not I check to see if they have been active. I can't recall, but I do not think they were a 1-reputation point users, so they're likely to log in again.
 
@bad_coder What urgency? It's in the list of posts I collect that will need deletion eventually. I happened to be cleaning it out at the moment, that's all.
 
Sometimes I comment on NAAs and they actually edit their posts. If they do not and have been active, then I raise a flag.
 
@cigien the urgency you keep having.
 
@cigien We don't agree on what posts must be deleted either..
Can you find a similar one?
 
3:22 AM
@Scratte We don't need to. That's what the discussion is for.
 
Right.. I think that's been discussed already on two three other meta posts.
 
@Scratte At least in terms of closing, it appears there's no waiting period whatsoever. meta post. I suspect it's a similar concept for NAA flags. I haveven't found anything re deletions yet.
 
@cigien Yes, that's correct. Because the author needs to make edits. Not because it'll be easy to delete it.
And Roomba waits for 10 days to enable the author to make those before it's deleted.
It didn't do any harm, it's not like it was misleading or a spam post.
 
@Scratte Of course. I meant, that post talks about how soon to close an off-topic question once posted. I haven't found a meta that talks about how soon to delete a closed question once it's eligible for deletion.
 
@cigien I'm sure the help center will tell you something about that.
 
3:28 AM
@Scratte No roomba like I said. I don't make del-pls requests for roomba posts.
 
@cigien No Roomba doesn't mean delete it before it would have been deleted, if there hadn't been an Answer on it. You let the Answer determine to delete it faster..
I do remember one post about deleting, emphasizing extra caution at the trusted user privilege.
access to moderator tools says: "Before voting to delete, please check whether there are any good answers"
 
@Scratte That's an interesting criterion. A cursory look at the graveyard doesn't indicate that this is a criterion used for del-pls requests here. But do you mind if I spend some doing that, and looking on meta for related discussions. I'd like to give a more thoughtful response to your suggestions.
@Scratte That I did do, for sure. There's a long comment on the answer by Makyen, pointing out issues with it in terms of efficiency, and assumptions being made about what the OP is asking.
 
@cigien Yes, I noticed that. It didn't make the Answer wrong though and I'm not entirely sure, but I do suspect it was a suggestion, as the Question didn't ask for efficient.
 
An answer not being wrong, doesn't make it good, which is the criterion you just mentioned.
 
It's doesn't make it not good either.
 
3:40 AM
Ok, sorry, I'm going to sign off on the conversation for the moment, because I really want to do some more research on this. I'd be more than happy to continue the conversation later when convenient for both of us.
 
I can't find it. It was posted by someone that had just hit 20K about the extra phrasing on when to delete Questions.
 
Oh, cool. So it exists at least. I'll look, and share the link if I find it. Please do the same if you find it as well.
@eyllanesc Do you have a minute? I can't figure out if the answer on a deleted post was accepted or not. How can I do that?
 
4:24 AM
@cigien mmm, I don't know if I have the privilege to see if the answer was accepted in a deleted post but anyway pass me the link and I will try to find that information
 
@eyllanesc Thanks, this one. And if you don't have the privileges, then only mods must be able to find out :)
 
@cigien This is the history of the answer
 
@eyllanesc Hmm, no. I can see that information, I just can't figure out how to tell if the answer was ever accepted. I'm not sure why the system would hide that.
 
@cigien When a answer is deleted then is the acceptance status also removed or hidden from the answer history? And why do you want to know that information?
 
@eyllanesc I want to know if a del-pls request I made was necessary. I remember it having an accepted answer, but now I can't find a way to confirm that :( I'm sure a mod can look it up, but yeah, it appears that the acceptance status is hidden from the revision history. Strange behavior, I don't see why that would be hidden.
 
4:40 AM
@cigien I still do not understand your interest, well anyway I'll go my way, bye.
 
@eyllanesc No big deal. One of my del-pls requests is "disputed", and I'm curious. Thanks for the help, I appreciate it :)
 
4:53 AM
@Scratte There's a general post asking How soon should a bad question be deleted? where the consensus generally appears to be that it's up to the judgement of privileged users to choose when to delete a post.
More specifically, I think this Should bad quality questions be given a grace period to be improved rather than deleted outright? is what you're interested in. It looks like the system makes the post eligible for deletion once the grace period has passed. So there's no need to wait to delete a post. You should certainly make your voice heard there, since that opinion doesn't seem to be represented.
 
@cigen This, like most everything here, has no "rules", which I think is best, because then you can make appropriate judgments in individual circumstances.
However, if you want my opinion, I will hold off on deleting any question that has even the remotest possibility of being edited into an acceptable question. Closure should happen immediately, always, of course, but only true garbage should be closed and deleted in a single step.
You will occasionally see me act on a question that is posted in here, closing and deleting it in a single step, when there's literally no possibility that it could ever be made on-topic, even with the most heroic of an edit.
But even the worst "debug my code" questions, or even the worst "opinion-based" questions, I will leave closed without deleting for at least several days, to give the person who asked them plenty of time to see what happened and salvage it, if they so desire.
I operate under no delusions that it is in any way typical that such posts will be salvaged. The majority of them will eventually be deleted in due course.
But there's minimal harm in having them exist, as long as they are closed, and I feel it's only fair to give everyone the opportunity, even if statistics and logic tell us a dismal story.
Brad Larson's answer reflects my views, and what I believe is the general consensus, quite well there.
All of this to say... there's never a rush to delete unless something is causing actual harm.
Which is unlike votes and closure, which should happen immediately, based on the current contents of the post.
 
This is the specific post that started the discussion. My rationale is that the post had a -7 score, and the answer had 0. Also, the OP accepted the answer, which suggests that the OP was unlikely to edit the question any further. They also had a day to do so. I agree that it didn't need to be deleted today, but I'm not clear on where that cut-off is. Would tomorrow be ok? How many days? Can you review the post please?
What would you have done in this case? Assuming you weren't a moderator, since as Brad's answer points out, y'all would be more conservative with deletions than regular users.
Also, I can't seem to figure out if the answer on that post was accepted or not. Is that information not in the revision history?
 
5:11 AM
Check the timeline to see acceptance. That answer was never accepted.
 
@CodyGray actually I looked at that post pre-deletion and the answer was definitely accepted and upvoted.
 
I would likely not vote to delete that, and I definitely wouldn't as a moderator. Multiple reasons: the question is clearly programming related, there are multiple paths I see to editing the question into something that is on-topic, it was asked by someone who is expected to be returning to the site, none of the content there (question or answer) is causing any harm
Honestly...
I don't even think that question should have been closed.
Maybe as needing clarification, if people felt that the problem description was unclear.
But how was it too broad?
"Too broad" doesn't mean "I don't think this person showed enough effort."
I am so damn tired of that. We aren't policing effort here. We're not teachers, or gatekeepers.
@Nick We can easily find out.
Ah yeah, it was accepted.
 
@CodyGray A point was made that it needed some information on what to do if there were no punctuation marks in the input string, but overall I agree that it was not too broad. This behaviour however is very typical in the regex tag where certain users just downvote/vtc everything that isn't a perfect question (or answer) in their eyes.
 
Hmm, I don't know why that doesn't show in the revision history.
@Nick I have no problem with downvoting everything that you don't think is a perfect question.
If you don't think the person showed enough effort, that's a downvote reason. It's like literally the first thing listed in the tooltip.
But it's not a close reason.
 
there's "perfect" and there's perfectly acceptable. Most of them fall into the latter category.
 
5:16 AM
@CodyGray I can't speak for the close-voters, but I would vote as needing details. It's not clear what the regex should do if certain characters are not in the input. The answer had to make a guess about that, which I use as a metric often.
 
Plenty of regex questions are underspecified. I get that.
But that's a perfect example of when you should be downvoting and voting to close, but not deleting.
 
@CodyGray Yeah, I'm confused by that. Why would the system hide that information?
 
@cigien Yeah, I don't know. It shouldn't, as far as I remember. I don't know what's happening there.
But I don't see it in other timelines, so either it's a regression or I'm completely misremembering that this used to be there.
And... it is there.
It's just not shown as a separate event, which is what I was looking for, some event called something like "accept".
Instead, it's shown as a green checkmark in the "answer" event, in the right-most column.
(Note that it's only shown in the question timeline; not the answer timeline. It's always been that way, as far as I remember. But I for whatever reason remember it being more visible than a green checkmark. Probably something that changed in one of the timeline redesigns. Which I would call recent, but TylerH is then going to come tell me it was actually 2 years ago now, and I've been here way too long...)
 
@CodyGray Thanks for the review, that's fascinating. I could of course be completely mis-remembering, but I suspect a visit to the del-pls requests in the graveyard would yield a lot of posts that you'll think shouldn't have been deleted. At least at the time that they were deleted. I know I'll be taking a long look at them, using the criteria mentioned above. Thanks for the detail there btw.
 
Yes. They would.
Many people in here misuse that privilege, by my estimation.
Frankly, a fair amount of what is done here is, in my eyes, inappropriate.
 
5:22 AM
Ah, I see. So while I'm possibly wrong, I'm in good company, which is a very very minor consolation ;)
 
Yes. You are in a minor group of users who want to delete everything they dislike for subjective reasons.
 
Hey, that's unfair. I try to have objective reasons always. It's the objective reasons that might be wrong.
 
I don't have the energy to argue against it, and there's a certain amount of deference that I do have to users who have earned the 20k+ delete privilege.
Yeah, fair; I should clarify that when I say "objective", I mean "consistent with the standards laid out by the site itself in the Help Center".
Which...isn't the standard definition of the word "objective".
I suppose I should say something like "formal", or "accepted", or "enshrined", or something like that.
Official? That even starts with the same letter.
 
That's fair too. If I disagree with some standard rule, then I would act against it so long as I have objective reasons. Not that that's the case here, I thought my reasons were in sync with the Help Center. I'll be sure to give it another thorough reading. To be fair, the text in there is certainly open to some interpretation.
@CodyGray Standard? That seems reasonable too.
 
Where in the Help Center does it say that we should close questions, much less delete them, because the asker didn't show sufficient effort?
 
5:28 AM
I gave my rationale when I asked for the review. I didn't mention lack of effort anywhere.
 
Ah, yes: "My rationale is that the post had a -7 score, and the answer had 0. Also, the OP accepted the answer, which suggests that the OP was unlikely to edit the question any further."
I somehow glossed over the first part of that because I couldn't even imagine what the vote scores possibly had to do with the decision to delete it.
You also did mention the lack of effort, but only implicitly. The lack of effort is the reason that question had score of -7.
And I very much disagree that answer acceptance has any correlation to future edits, at least not for an established user (that user had something like 6k rep; they're weren't brand-new to SO, and clearly weren't a one-and-done).
Besides...even if the OP never edits the question, someone else can, and they can do so accurately, since it was a high quality answer, with the nod given to it by the OP.
So all of the underspecification evaporated, because the solution was known.
 
@CodyGray Hmm, that's true. The negative score only really indicates lack of effort. Duly noted.
 
@CodyGray Doesn't an accepted answer mean the OP had their problem resolved to their satisfaction? What further incentive do they have to edit the question?
 
They care about the knowledge base
They want to make the question better and more useful to others
 
5:34 AM
I'm not sure in what proportion you're cynical or an optimist :)
 
Like I said, it wasn't a brand-new user.
The assumptions change.
Established users know the model
Also, more generally, it's kind of like what I said earlier about deletion. Even though I might cynically be willing to bet money on the bad outcome, it's unfair for me to hold people to that negativity when I don't actually know.
I am not communicating well, because I am tired and...well, it's the weekend.
So the amount of effort I am putting in is low, and I may or may not be entirely sober.
 
Not at all, you're making yourself very clear actually. You're saying I should be more conservative with casting delete votes, and you've explained why.
 
@CodyGray good to know :) (taking it easy)
 
I meant that I am not meeting my own standards for clarity.
 
Ah, well we can't always do 100% all the time :)
 
5:38 AM
I actually feel drunk, even though I haven't yet started hitting the alcohol. I think it's because I stuffed myself with a giant dinner. But I'm also setting expectations up for what is going to happen soon. :-)
 
Well, chat is going to get properly fun then ;)
Now I'm inspired as well.
 
@CodyGray something is going to happen :O wait don't tell us. For the heavy dinner I recommend a coffee or a nap. But don't go for spirits before the digestion is well under way.
 
I don't like coffee...
I like the smell, but not the taste. I don't drink it.
 
@CodyGray Ah, I see it now. So it was visible when the post was deleted, and I just missed it?
 
@CodyGray then you don't have many alternatives expect for a small licour digestive but it will hit hard if you had dinner less than 1 hour ago.
 
5:41 AM
@cigien Good question. I just checked. It's actually hidden, even from the timeline, when the Q&A is deleted.
 
Yup, so it is. That's strange.
 
This is either a bug or a feature request.
@bad_coder Don't people in your neck of the woods have glasses of beer or wine with dinner?
What happens to them?
 
@CodyGray A feature request? What use is hiding that information?
 
A bug? Why is that information being hidden when it shouldn't be?
 
@CodyGray that's different. Drinking during has a different effect of drinking after.
 
5:42 AM
@bad_coder This defies my intuition...
I suppose I have no choice but to undertake detailed studies over the next few weeks. :-)
 
Follow up, that post has a reopen vote already, but the question still needs to be edited before it's fit for reopening, right? It still lacks details.
 
That, I don't have an opinion about.
I can completely understand why someone would think that it needs more information.
 
Ok, fair enough.
 
"I think this question lacks enough information/clarity to be objectively answered" is always a valid close reason.
 
@CodyGray This point is very interesting. I've never heard that argument before. It does make sense in general, though I'm not sure about this particular post.
 
5:48 AM
I don't know if this particular post is worth it
Although, Tim's answers are usually pretty high quality
Then again, regex questions are inherently kinda localized. Unless you're trying to do exactly that same thing, they probably won't be all that useful to people in the future, and even if they would be, they're hard to find.
Oh, back on the timeline: I found another problem: I have a userscript that's customizing the view of the timeline, and that userscript is removing the checkmarks
 
Yes, but I think that's the issue here. Tim is clearly experienced in this, and it looks like they guessed what the OP wanted. And they were right. However, I'm trying to edit the question so it fits Tim's answer and I'm finding it hard. Not that I'm any regex expert.
@CodyGray No, I saw it when you deleted it briefly, and I couldn't see the checkmark either. Want to delete it, so I can take a look again? It might invalidate the reopen vote though.
 
It shouldn't invalidate the reopen vote. But no, I'm pretty sure. I was on a different computer then, and that didn't have the userscript.
It was only just now, when I was going to actually start seriously putting together a Meta question, that I returned to my desktop, where the userscript is installed.
 
Ok, sounds good. And Martijn's feature-request seems to be for all accepts, and un-accepts, implying the latest accept should be visible?
Oh, that post is pretty old too.
 
Yes, the latest accept should be visible. And it is. Just not when the Q&A is deleted. That's arguably a separate regression.
And, yes, it's old. That is probably, as I alluded to earlier, the last time they rolled out a revamp of the timeline view.
An even older one, where there was a regression related to showing the "accepted" events in the timeline, but that one was fixed. (And by Sklivvz, which reminds me how many good staff members are gone now.)
 
BTW, all the delete/undelete tests on that post are making Tim see strange rep changes. They've posted a comment to Makyen. You might want to respond.
 
6:01 AM
Grumbles something about another user who notices these kinds of things
 
@CodyGray It's going to take a lot more than a couple of links to prove your sanity ;)
Ha, see, high rep users care about rep changes too.
 
Yeah, I know that. That's why I never gave much credibility to that argument yesterday, that the reason I don't care is because I already have more rep than I know what to do with.
 
Well, that was a delightful comment to Tim :)
 
I didn't care even when I didn't have any rep.
 
It's not the rep per se. For me it's not even the rep gain, so much as the rep loss. It's a great indicator of when improvements need to/could be made.
 
6:04 AM
It's a great indicator that someone on the Internet disliked something.
How much signal that realistically has varies...
 
Internet in general, almost none. But for technical content on SO, well... I wouldn't drop what I'm doing to fix it, but I wouldn't ignore it either.
 
 
1 hour later…
7:28 AM
@DavidBuck I was going to say something about the all caps but I refrain after visiting that post. Thank you for the consistency.
 
 
1 hour later…
8:52 AM
Question: Link-only answer with undisclosed affiliation. Custom-flagged, flag marked helpful and answer deleted. Now the user posts an identical answer - custom flag again or spam flag?
NVM, I went with custom flag again, also linking to earlier deleted answer.
 
What flag to raise when question is not a question, but poorly written code one wants to share as his knowledge?
 
@JeanneDark Custom flag is always the safe option and lets you specify previous answer. Spam has a chance of being missed if you spam flag but and the original answer might be missed if you spam flag the re-post
@Ruli Unclear
 
Thanks!
 
9:07 AM
Somebody marked it as no action needed in review, can I somehow bring that review to mods? Its clearly bad review...
 
@JeanneDark Often worst case scenario with a custom is they disagree, don't delete the answer and mark your flag helpful for being potentially accurate but nothing they want to act on /shrug
@Ruli You can post blatantly bad reviews in the Bad Stack Overflow Reviews room, just make sure that you prefix the link to the review with a space ( " <link>") to make sure that it doesn't onebox
 
There is different syntax for links as in here? Im on mobile app for first time, hopefully I won't mess something haha
 
 
2 hours later…
11:28 AM
@CodyGray If I remember correctly, un-accepts removes the accept status, and hides the history on the timeline. When a post is deleted, the system un-accepts it. If I recall, the system will re-accept if it the post is un-deleted. If you want to really check, one can see it on the reputation tab on the user, but only if the deletion didn't happen on the same day as the accept. It becomes a needle in a haystack if the Question is old.
@Nick Reviews don't one-box :) I paste all mine directly :)
 
Good for you
 
Being a reluctant flagger, I'm very hesitant about this one. Even if the author seems to say that it's a question. I'm not a python, so I don't know if this could even be edited into an answer. What to do here?
 
@Scratte You're thinking of deletion of the specific answer, whereas the case earlier was about deletion of the entire Q&A (by deleting the question).
 
@Scratte Eh.. It looked like a valid answer where OP wasn't sure if it was efficient enough. I was editing it and it got deleted :/
 
It did look like a valid answer, and thus probably wasn't flaggable. But given the poster's response to Scratte's comment, I made the executive decision that it was not an attempt to answer the question.
If you want me to reinstate it because it looks like it is a useful answer, @Georgy, I'm happy to do that, since you actually know Python.
 
11:44 AM
@CodyGray No. When a Question with an accepted Answer is deleted, I believe that the system unaccepts it.
 
@CodyGray Well, the code is different from the other answers. I also tested it and it returns a correct result. So, I'd say we can keep it.
 
@Georgy It seemed to be a variation of the array on the Question. This was 2 two-dimensional array.. but of course it could just a different Answer that works for those too :)
 
@Scratte What are you basing that conclusion on? The fact that you lose the rep gain from having an answer accepted? That part is true, but I don't think it proves that the system unaccepts it. Just like you'd lose the rep from editing or votes on a deleted answer, the rep gain is just canceled when a post is deleted.
If the answer was actually unaccepted just because the question is deleted, the system would still have to track that it was once accepted, so that it can reinstate that acceptance after the answer is restored. Which would be kind of a weird implementation... Why not just keep it as accepted?
 
Shamelessly advertising my maybe somewhat relevant answer. At least the checkmark is removed.
 
@Scratte It worked fine for the array in the question as well.
 
11:46 AM
@Georgy OK. Resurrecting...
 
I was just about to clean up my comments, but I see someone was effective :)
@CodyGray No. It has been discussed here before. The check disappears on the delete post, no?
 
Right, right. The checkmark definitely disappears in the normal view. The question is, does it disappear in the timeline?
 
Doesn't it?
 
Yes.
Which I think is a bug.
My claim is that it should not. The timeline should track all historical accept/unaccept events. But, according to Martijn's bug report (linked in here earlier), all but the most recent accept event are lost.
Still, the system still "knows" that the answer is accepted, since the accepted state will be restored once the Q&A is undeleted.
So, I claim the system should be forthcoming with its knowledge via the timeline view. At least to moderators!
 
It seems the system doesn't want Questions with accepted Answers being deleted, so it just automatically removes it. That explains that there's nothing on the timeline and no check.
@Georgy Thank you for fixing it :)
 
11:51 AM
I still think this is a bug.
 
@Scratte It was Cody :) I didn't even have to edit it.
 
I can see why deleting the answer would cause that answer to be unaccepted. But deleting the question should freeze the entire thing in amber.
And apparently it does, since the acceptance status is restored once the question is undeleted.
So why does knowledge that the system has not show up in the timeline view, which is supposed to show all of the knowledge that the system has?
 
@JeanneDark Awesome. Thanks :)
@Georgy You were most certainly part of the solution though :) Even if Cody did all the work.
 
What Scratte is trying to say is that Cody can either be a force for good or a force for evil. You were instrumental in ensuring that he was a force for good this time. :-)
 
No, you are always a force for good!
 
11:57 AM
@CodyGray I agree.. (added to my calendar). I do not like it when the system hides stuff. Your argument is sound. If the system knows it, then show it to us in the timeline and don't remove the check just because it's deleted.
 
I don't have a strong opinion on whether or not the checkmark is removed from the normal view (in the post gutter). I can see arguments either way.
 
Everybody loves Cody
 
Hah!
No.
 
We make a sitcom out of that
 
@CodyGray What's the argument against showing it on the deleted post?
 
11:59 AM
@Scratte I can't articulate it all that clearly, but basically something like that you said earlier... It can't be accepted if it's deleted.
It effectively loses its accepted answer status when the post is deleted.
The question shouldn't show up in the question listing page (or search results) as having an accepted answer, since, for all practical purposes, it doesn't.
 
@CodyGray Yes, but that's a weak argument. Roomba cannot delete it, but also Roomba cannot delete posts with upvoted Answers, but the system doesn't remove the score on multiple Answers when they're deleted along with the Question.
 
Shamelessly advertising a possibly somewhat related post of mine: Question in the question list with accepted answer (green box) and no answers
 
Not sure why Roomba comes into this?
@JeanneDark You keep pointing to things I've already upvoted. Not doing you nearly as much good as if you were linking to things I hadn't already upvoted.
 
@CodyGray Sorry I forgot to check beforehand ;)
 
Meta rep is important ...
For most badges I had the number of posts required yet lacked the rep.
 
12:03 PM
So important that the system tracks it and keeps it hidden from us!
@rene I have exactly the opposite problem...
Clearly I need to talk more
 
Yes, please do.
 
I may be basing it on a false premise. Some posts are deleted automatically. Others need user actions. Deleted posts are not show to public anyway, so it doesn't matter what the state of the Question is. The system could just as easily say it's unanswered still showing the post as answered when one looks as it, is it can lie about it when one looks at it.
Also.. if you search for closed post that is unanswered, you'll find closed posts with an accepted answer in the resulting list.
 
Deleted Q&A still show up in search results for moderators. Do you want us to be confused? That cannot possibly end well for anyone...
@Scratte As with some of the things Jeanne has noted, that's likely a bug. An entirely separate bug.
 
@CodyGray JeanneDark's post is not the same. That one shows the wrong number of Answers. I'm saying it shows closed posts as unanswered.
 
And deleted own posts are also accessible (even via the profile, for some time)
 
12:08 PM
Maybe I misunderstood... You said that if you search for closed+unanswered, you see some questions in the list that are closed but answered? That would be a violation of one of the search criteria, so they should not be displayed. To me, that points to a bug (an inconsistency in the internal state).
 
@CodyGray Isn't it only when you explicitly search for deleted posts?
 
How to build a C++ program that takes a graph, color it and print out that graph to a .dot file? which is closed and has an accepted Answer shows up in my search using closed:yes isanswered:no
 
@Braiam Yes, I think so.
 
@Scratte Try answers:0
 
@JeanneDark I do not want answers:0. I'm fine with 125 answers. I just want the ones with no accepted answers :) Of course I work around it by knowing that the filled green box means it has an accepted answer.
 
12:14 PM
@Scratte Not necessarily a bug: "no/false/0 returns only questions with no positively-scored answers." link (if you use isanswered)
 
Then hasaccepted:no
 
@JeanneDark I can find another one with a positively scored one :D
 
Actually consistent behavior since questions with answers without positive score are also among the "unanswered" ones
 
Hmm.. or maybe I can't find those. Well, that's very confusing. Since I assumed that isanswered means has an accepted answer.
@Nick Ohh.. that's nice :) I'll try that out
 
I agree with Nick. The search words work fine. Just use them correctly. If you want questions without answers, use answers:0. If you want questions without positively scored answers (or no answers) use isanswered:0. If you want questions without accepted answers, use hasaccepted:no
 
12:22 PM
Thank you :) I'll upgrade to Scratte.v.0.02 "Added feature: 'Just use them correctly'"
 
I think that's worthy of a major version number bump.
Can you also release that patch as open source? I know others who would benefit.
 
And save that link somewhere
2
 
This question looks to be too broad or a library/utility request: Mod java application in other languages. Thoughts? Should I request a CV-pls?
 
Too immature to get a major version bump though. I'm still in early beta.
@JeanneDark lol!. It accessible from the search itself :D
 
@Scratte I know ;)
@HovercraftFullOfEels I would say it's definitely too broad. The question "Is it theoretically possible to achieve the same 'reflection & injection' effect with other languages?" alone already, but they ask several other questions, too.
 
12:27 PM
@CodyGray I think it's obfuscated and hidden behind a blood-brain barrier. Not even a regular pay-wall.
 
@HovercraftFullOfEels I think the only thing that makes it "too broad" is the "other languages" bit. If it focused on a specific language, I think it'd be reasonable. (And a nice break from "debug my broken mess of code" questions...)
Sounds like they might want to focus on C++.
 
Hmmmmmm
thanks for the input
@CodyGray: they also go through a smorgasbord of possible approaches
 
Don't we want people to show what they've tried?
(I use "we" loosely there.)
 
The royal "we"
 
I see a sitcom on the way. Maybe I shall make a cartoon series of 'Everybody loves Cody' called "The many stacks of Cody"
 
12:37 PM
@CodyGray Effort spent and shown by the OP is effort saved by the several readers :)
 
Not sure about you, but when I solve programming problems, I don't first run through all of the wrong solutions. I try to start with the ones I think will work, based on the prior knowledge that I have about the domain. I definitely don't go ask people who have no domain knowledge to come up with starting points.
(Although I have had managers who think that is their job...)
 
1:12 PM
^sorry misread the question, please can a RO bin my request @rene, thanks
 
^ thanks
 
yw
 
1:33 PM
@Dharman Actually @rene can you remove it. There is transaltion
 
1:44 PM
^ Oh!.. I didn't see that coming.
 
2:04 PM
@HovercraftFullOfEels I think you may have been mistaken on this. See the comments (not mine).
 
Is this old question (NATO NAA) salvageable through editing (by removing the recommendation request)? It received answers not suggesting libraries.
 
Would it be ok to delete this answer? stackoverflow.com/a/64952713/1839439
 
2:32 PM
@Scratte ah, you are probably right. thanks
 
I came across this in LA. Author vandalized their answer. It might be worth preserving (I'm no Python expert) and I can't directly edit it.
 
@JeanneDark Vandalized posts should always be rolled back. You can make an exception once the post has been vandalized after it was deleted and never undeleted, but if the post is still visible it has to be rolled back. Then you can flag as NAA as you normally would. In case of <2k+ just flag for moderator attention explaining that a post was vandalized or flag as NAA if you feel that the issue is clear enough.
 
@Dharman Thanks! I would roll back myself if I had 2000+ reputation. Since I can only suggest edits and the OP had just vandalized it, I would likely just have them reject my edit. That's why I don't suggest such edits.
 
Then you can mod-flag saying something like: "this user has posted NAA and then vandalized it instead of removing. Please delete it."
 
3:32 PM
@cigien You should really include the language tag in your requests so readers know if it's within their expertise.
 
@bad_coder Sorry, I've only been adding specific tags if I think it requires an SME to evaluate.
Is the language tag mandatory? It seems unnecessary at least for cases such as Software Recs.
 
@bad_coder Yes, that's exactly what I'm basing it on. The format explicitly says [tag:cv-pls] close reason https://stackoverflow.com/q/12345 and explicitly points out that the language tag should be added for duplicate-closure requests.
 
@cigien The other members rarely omit the 2nd tag, both if writing the request by hand or generating from user script. It's just better.
 
@bad_coder That's a fair point.
 
3:46 PM
@cigien If you check the SOCVR request graveyard for a given day you'll hardly find any post that doesn't have the 2nd tag. So it's a good practice from a consistency POV. Also, should one day someone want to do some data research, they'll have the second tag to work with - it provides consistency for the future.
 
What to do with this question?
 
@Yatin tough call. I'm trying to think of an optimal reason to cast a CV. I added the algorithm tag.
@Yatin Probably a duplicate of this one
 
@rene or any RO, I'd like clarification on the section in the FAQ on request formatting. As I'm reading it, the text and examples imply that language-tags are not generally expected for requests, with the case of duplicate-requests being called out as an exception. All mentions of additional information in requests seem to imply they should be added to the close reason, and not tags.
However, as pointed out by another member, there are valid reasons to add language tags by default, such as consistency with existing practice, and searchability of old requests. Also, it appears that the linked user-scripts do this as well, though I'm not sure of that. If adding language tags is indeed the recommended practice, can I request a rewrite to this FAQ section? As currently written, it appears to be actively misleading.
 
@cigien Simple: It's not mandatory, but it is advisable (a prevalent practice.)
 
@bad_coder I'm not disagreeing. Do you agree that the FAQ should at least mention that?
 
3:58 PM
@cigien I generally disagree with too many question marks being thrown around, especially if they are directed at me. Closed as duplicate :)
 
@bad_coder Well, I'm not sure how to ask you a question without ending it in ? :p
 
@cigien Don't ask me :D
 
@bad_coder I feel like it should at least have all of the code... So I was thinking to go with MRE required.
 
@cigien I have no problem with adding to the FAQ that it is adviceable to include tags to provide context. Let's see what a rewrite would look like.
 
@rene Thanks, I appreciate it.
 
4:08 PM
@Yatin I think the question is a bit lazy, I left a link in the comments and one of the up voted questions has an answer separating the traveling salesman from the anneling problem. I think the best is closing as duplicate (also provides the most value for the OP.)
 
@rene If I'm not overstepping, I have some suggestions for how to rewrite the initial part of that section. How would I go about making those suggestions? Is that a discussion that would be had in a different room?
 
@cigien you can create a pull request, we can have the discussion there. github.com/SO-Close-Vote-Reviewers/socvr-website-content/blob/…
 
@rene Ah perfect, thanks.
 
The RO's will be notified if you submit a PR there.
 
Ok, sounds good.
 
4:18 PM
@rene Typo Tag #16 " you may repost the request single time." should be: "...one single time" or "...a single time".
 
BTW is the room's schedule updated?
 
4:57 PM
0 votes left today...
 
5:44 PM
^^ Opinion based
 
6:17 PM
@eyllanesc btw OP added attempt after you made the comment. Does it still need focus?
 
@cigien That is not an attempt, it is only code generated by the .ui that I already had. there is no attempt to solve the real problem
 
@eyllanesc I see. thanks.
 
6:52 PM
@Yatin Updated with what?
@cigien Suggestions are, of course, welcome.
 
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