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12:01 AM
@AdrianMole Problem with that is shipping would end up costing more than the book. But books in English are shockingly affordable.
 
@bad_coder Actually, it was some years ago, while I was off work for an extended period (a few months). I got bored, so popped into a used bookshop just down the road from my flat. I ended up finding a tiny wee, grey book called, "The Taxonomy of Gymnosperms." Fascinating stuff - kept my mind occupied until I got back to work.
 
There's also the problem that I live in a small village. The last time I was in a city was in Copenhagen.
We have only one shop that sells stale bread
 
@Dharman I thought you lived in the center of Dublin or something :D Did you move back to Poland or are you still in Ireland? (If you don't mind me asking.)
 
No, I live in Ireland. Just not in Dublin
 
@Dharman Small villages are the best!!
 
12:04 AM
Ireland is a small village; but I think there are at least three shops that sell stale bread.
 
@AdrianMole That raises the question: Wales must be a small village, if you can walk to the single used bookshop and it's just down the road :D
 
@bad_coder At that time, I was in a slightly larger village (London).
 
@Dharman We have to keep Dharman company, maybe the villagers don't share interests with him :/
 
He keeps deleting shops!
 
They offered stale bread; of course I deleted them
 
12:12 AM
@Dharman hahaha, that raises the question of how you get fresh bread :O?
 
I drive to a nearby town.
 
@AdrianMole London book shops are scary, they feel kind of oppressive. You walk in and for some reason (maybe the size of the editing market) you feel engulfed. They stack the books so high and tightly together the reader feels small.
@Dharman I was wondering if you drove around or were living full hermit (a considerable challenge!)
@Dharman Since we're chatting, I wanted to tell you what I thought of the mod election outcome. At the time I didn't say anything because it was exhausting (what happened with Yvette also made me think about how the SO society regulates it's interactions)...
@Dharman Well, I kept the hopes you might be elected. And I did feel a disappointment when you weren't. I can't explain it, somehow I had gotten involved and there was an expectation.
@Dharman In hindsight, your turn out at the ballots was excellent, much better than would be expected from a first time runner. Also, when you were eliminated a massive amount of votes went to Makyen. Meaning lots of people picked you for their first choice over the winners (it was the largest differential during elimination.)
 
12:32 AM
@bad_coder Thanks, maybe I'll have better luck next time.
 
@Dharman Yeah I think so.
@Dharman I'll leave one more note. Machavity's candidacy text was really "native English", near the last sentence he wrote "churn rate" and I had to look that up in the dictionary. I felt really hit by that, the difference between native speakers and non-native speakers. There's no plausibility for a non-native to write like that, in fact it's frowned upon - considered somewhat improper for a foreigner to use too much lingo.
@Dharman A pragmatic count would notice most mods are native English speakers. And it's been my experience in other forums folks can get a sort of "affinity vote". Like, I'd see them up voting each other based on affinities and better posts getting less votes (and that's not bad, just a kind of natural tendency...)
@Dharman Which makes you turn over even more admirable in a way. Because Machavity and TravisJ were like "fish in water" at expressing themselves. And frankly, any non-native would have a hard time expressing himself in a way that has so much distinction in choice of words, phrasing, etc...
 
 
1 hour later…
1:50 AM
My new profile pic renders badly in chat :)
 
2:00 AM
@bad_coder This suggested edit is on a post you just changed, and which was discussed in here only a few hours ago. Care to have a look?
... feel free to come back to me, if you want a "support vote".
 
@AdrianMole I rejected it because it conflicts with the authors intent.
 
Not my field of expertise, though, so I skipped (for now).
 
The edit summary says that they removed some redundancy in the code, but even so it could still be rejected as "No Improvement Whatsoever".
 
Well, as it was that "Anonymous" bloke ...
 
I wonder if they're the same person.... or an audit :)
 
2:54 AM
@AdrianMole Thanks for noticing, I haven't coded in Java for a while and what RyanM says makes sense (he's the SME). I should have skipped that review...In any case, by leaving the exception it kept within the original authors intent, and it's sure to not break something. As for the rest (please don't make me read up on Java right now :/ )
 
3:43 AM
@AdrianMole I actually considered making that edit myself, since it wasn't in the original version and makes no difference (i.e., the extra listed exception is redundant). It's not a compiler warning, but apparently most of the warnings I'm used to in my life are from IDEs or external lint tooling, since from a quick test javac doesn't even warn about a completely unused variable.
 
 
3 hours later…
7:44 AM
Am I missing something or are there two NAA's in this Question?
 
7:55 AM
@Scratte You appear to be correct
 
Huh, are manually scanned SD posts reported here even if they only have experimental reasons?
 
I did wonder why Smokey was suddenly interested in vintage spam
 
They posted more, and my watchlisting workflow checks the network for other posts with the URL. Mostly looking for potential false positives, but occasionally I find more spam instead :-)
 
@DavidBuck Ahh.. do you think someone will be mistaken those for Answers and mis-click on the helpful/decline button? :)
"vintage spam"? Is that when the meat is past it's due date? :) Because.. that doesn't sound like it deserves a fancy word like "vintage" :D
 
@Scratte if those "answers" don't have a downvote, then yes. I gave your comments an upvote, just to help it in the queue.
 
8:11 AM
@rene Thank you :) I did come around to the voting just now.. thanks for the nudge.
 
\o
 
8:50 AM
Would you consider this as NAA?
 
If anyone likes to write custom flags, I think maybe this one needs to be removed due to it being identical to another Answer. No intended harm by the poster, but not very useful.
 
@TomerShetah I think it is unlikely that will be deleted by reviewers but it could be seen as NAA. Sometimes it helps to have an answer that shows code works. Not sure if that goes for that Q.
 
Thanks @rene. I didn't flag it, just wanted to see what others think
 
@TomerShetah I think I did this once in one of my early Answers.. It wasn't removed.. I think? :D
 
8:59 AM
Yeap, I was afraid to get a declined flag, so I didn't flag it, although IMO it is not an answer!
 
@TomerShetah What do you think they answerer should have done instead of answering?
 
@Scratte, leave a comment asking about the network, and maybe suggest to run it from a different one.
 
@TomerShetah I think showing that there's no issue with the code is useful, no? Granted that today, I'd put a link to a pastebin and say I cannot reproduce it, but I'm not sure that's very useful to anyone. Especially since the link dies.
@Scratte I'd put it in a comment.. not an Answer.
 
9:15 AM
What would you say about the following comment: Same code works for me. Did you check your network? Can you try from another machine?
 
@Dharman Nice edit, but I think you missed something ;)
@TomerShetah Ah.. but isn't that true with most Answers here, if you remove the middle bit? :D They did prove that there was no issue with the code, no?
 
@Scratte NAA worked, so no worries there. Do you think this is NAA? stackoverflow.com/a/64398333
 
@DavidBuck I think it is.. see my comment. Though I'm reluctant to actually flag it.
@DavidBuck It's gone :)
 
9:33 AM
It's for the best
 
@Scratte automatic edit. It should have been flagged anyway
 
10:00 AM
@Dharman So.. you're saying "My bot did it"? ;)
 
10:37 AM
are we suppose to flag those?
 
@Scratte if you think those are spam, then yes.
 
@rene Good answer.. I guess, I don't know.
I suppose the powersemantics issue got me very reluctant to flag those things. They could be just very passionate ;)
 
@Scratte Definitely affiliated without any declaration. Mass posting in a short time. What's not to flag?
 
@DavidBuck I see the undisclosed affiliation. But did they have time to fix it?
 
Relevant moderator advice on when to flag bulk reports: 1, 2
@Scratte they can always fix it and flag for undeletion (at which point the moderators could lift the penalties). That said, I don't think most of those could be fixed.
 
10:54 AM
@RyanM We know that, but I doubt that is common knowledge. I don't know what information they get on their post when it's deleted, so I'm reluctant to rely on the fact that they get accurate information.
Even high-reputation users have been seen to re-post a moderator deleted post.
 
I'm also just not particularly optimistic about five all-but-link-only "hey use our library" answers getting much better.
 
@Scratte It's a commercial product and the posts definitely look as if they're trying to sell a product rather than help the OPs.
 
What it there is a product out there called "Scratte" and I find that it has very good use for some problems. If I were to mention it in an Answer of mine, wouldn't it be very likely that someone jumped to the conclusion that the product must be mine?
 
@Scratte If you made 4 posts in 20 minute and the product called Scratte was your solution to everything, it would be a perfectly reasonable conclusion.
 
Yes, I suppose you're right :)
 
11:02 AM
and also if your posts didn't describe how to use the product to solve the problem, just that they should use it
 
@RyanM I think that's a marketing technique. You don't get to know how to use it or find out that it doesn't fit your needs until you've already paid! :)
 
what to do if a user edits out the old-closed question with a new one in its place? (the old question has no answers/comments) stackoverflow.com/q/64302079/11573842
 
@Yatin There are various opposing opinions about this. Some say it's not allowed at all. Some say it's allowed as long as one doesn't invalidate answers. Some say it's allowed as long as it also doesn't invalidate comments (which I find to be really silly, since comments are readily deleted).
My opinion is: Let them. They have one go at the reopen queue per Question. It doesn't matter if it's similar or dissimilar to the old Question. It's the same work for reviewers anyway. And this one doesn't have Answers.
 
@Scratte But isn't this just trying to evade a question ban?
 
By OP's comment, it seems they did this to bypass the question limit
 
11:15 AM
@DavidBuck I don't see it that way. I don't care about that one user. What if their new Question is awesome? It would be good for the repository, no? If the new Questions is horrible, it'll get 3 leave closed, like if they edited their old Questions to be like the old one (assuming it's hopeless)
 
@Yatin And seems to be engaging in other odd behaviour also.
@Scratte I guess the system will get them in the end if they persist in writing immediately closeworthy questions (even if they add bounties).
 
@Yatin I don't see how it matters to us curators. Our goal is to get good content to stay and remove the bad. How it gets here and how Stack decides to moderate the users is not our call.
 
Also, a bit of a side question what should I tell to Belisarius? I guess it is a tp
 
@DavidBuck Yes, that is my point. They have the option to edit anyway. If they choose to make the best of it, then my opinion is: Why not? Our work is no different. They only have one edit chance per post.
@Yatin I don't know. Ask double-beep what the preference is for this. I wouldn't say it vandalized the post, but I'm not sure what's preferred in the logging of it.
 
ok
 
11:35 AM
@Yatin "I can't write the value of a constant in a variable to save it in the database." what does this mean?
Or to put it another way: I think the post is unclear in English now. Or...mostly English, because there's still Portguese at the end, it's just incorrectly formatted.
@tripleee there's only one subscript call, would the rest of the traceback actually help? The barely intelligible answer seems correct: it's not a list.
The documentation for that library is terrible, though, so I have no idea what you're supposed to do.
 
11:59 AM
Why is there nothing to flag?
 
@Dharman Smokey's right there, you can't just ignore him like that :-p
 
@Dharman Too many curators, not enough poor content :(
It's such a pain when no one posts bad stuff when one need to max out on flagging every day..
 
How can I delete certain user's all questions?
 
@Dharman Run for moderator on the next election.. I'll vote for you :)
 
12:20 PM
I'm not very 'down with the kids' so I have no idea if "OTB solution" is a sign-off, or what? stackoverflow.com/a/64397611
 
@DavidBuck Seems to be a signature of some sorts. I flagged the answer
 
@Dharman I've realised the other answers mentioned OOTB, which I can work out, but I'm still not sure what OTB would mean unless it's a typo or somehow means not OOTB...?
 
What is OOTB?
 
Out of the box
I assume
 
Someone just delete a post while I was typing out a comment. So.. inconsiderate :D
OOTB means Out Of The Box?!? I though it meant "Oh! Off-Topic! Bigtime"
 
12:33 PM
It could mean ooh, tuberculosis as well, but I'm just going on what I thought was likely
 
I flagged a questions as a potential voting fraud and the way it was handled is that a mod closed the question.
Or is this unrelated, and the mod ignored my flag on the question when going through the close queue.
 
@Dharman I'm not sure how the mod-tooling works. But I assume they are not presented with flags on a post if they're just going through the close vote queue as a reviewer.
 
Then why was the flagged marked as handled?
 
I believe I remember something about custom flags on a post being marked as helpful when a post is closed. And that users felt it was a bug.
 
If that's the case then it's a serious bug.
Either suspend mods from going into queues, or stop flagging questions until this is fixed
 
12:38 PM
I can't remember if I saw it in chat or on meta or if my memory is playing tricks on me.
But searching this room for the word "closed" is a tall order :D
 
12:51 PM
.. first find. Message by Makyen saying "marked helpful upon a mod closing the question are VLQ, Close, and custom"
To be honest, I do not think it's unreasonable for you to ask the moderator that closed the post if they noticed the flag on it when they closed the post. And if they did not, how you should proceed the next time this happens.
 
 
2 hours later…
3:23 PM
Is this question fine? I flagged it as "needs debugging details" because to me they just paste their whole code and ask us to find the error. It was answered and now looks to me like typo (mismatching labels), so I'm not sure how the question will be useful to future visitors.
 
3:42 PM
@JeanneDark Not sure. It seems to me like a mistake one might make as a new little man..
 
@JeanneDark Your flagging was right. "isn't running" isn't a concise problem description.
 
Thanks!
 
I don't know if it will give an error at all. I'm not an SME. Does anyone know if such a program will give an error or just not run?
 
@JeanneDark Np. I value your efforts in curating the site.
@Scratte That could be easily observed just using a debugger.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ I don't know if there is one for that particular language.
 
What should one do with this answer? It is a self-answer and the OP simply copy-n-paste an answer they got from what looks like a Japanese-like SO (teratail.com), providing a link to the Q&A there. I was going to remove the link, because it seems irrelevant at first, but it is at least a way of saying that someone else provided it. Any suggestion?
 
STack Overflow?
 
@Dharman I'll ask.
 
@Scratte Methinks even malbolge or brainfuck provide a debugger for their "languages"
 
@Dharman StackOverflow I guess
 
3:50 PM
Unusual but I agree with that interpretation
 
@πάνταῥεῖ Ahh.. but you don't actually know then? :)
 
@Scratte That tag has 20 watchers and the answerer has 18 answers on the subject. To be honest, it's unlikely that anything more activity is going to take place on that question and, as it's got an accepted answer, it's not going to go anywhere whether its closed or not.
 
@DavidBuck True. But that it's unlikely to get more Answers isn't a good reason to close a post, if you ask me. And even if there is a way to get debugger information out of the program, can we except someone to know about it? I'm not sure it's like compiling a java program where it just gives it "for free" :)
 
@Scratte All I'm saying is that if there isn't a consensus or a terribly compelling reason to close it, there's thousands of more obvious candidates out there.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ I see.. but if they know how to debug their program, would they have any issues with it? I mean if everyone just investigated enough, we could close stack, right? :) Even the 30000 scored Questions could have been investigated by the author and shouldn't have been posted. sorry.. double ping.. triple ping :)
 
0
Q: Disambiguate [hive] and/or burninate [hivedb]

padaleianaHive, nowadays, has two meanings: database built on top of Hadoop and facilitates easy data summarization, ad-hoc queries, and the analysis of large datasets stored in Hadoop compatible distributed file system (...) Current description. Key-value database written in pure Dart. Github Repo...

 
@Scratte We require efforts in research and finding your own solution attempts first, before asking at SO.
Ya know what my stand about pings is :-P
 
@πάνταῥεῖ No. We downvote posts that does not show research effort. There is no requirement for research effort in posting a Question.
 
The DVs is just the side effect of ignoring this requirement.
 
3:58 PM
And.. they did research. They wrote a program and then! couldn't figure out what wasn't working.
It's not like they just asked someone to write it for them.
What is DV? Delete Vote?
 
@Scratte SO is now just a free debugging service? Post some code and let others find the missing semicolon, wrong indentation or label mismatch?
 
@JeanneDark That is what the mcve-people keep pushing for.. they do not want anything other than code and error messages and expected versus actual output.
 
I am closing a significant number of questions as duplicate of What is a debugger and how can it help me diagnose problems?. Never saw any complaint from peers (or even reopen votes) regarding that.
4
 
@πάνταῥεῖ There are a lot of stuff going on that others never see. That's not really an argument. And I'm not saying I'm happy about mcve-posts. I find them quite boring myself, but.. we'd have closed the post as no effort if it didn't have code.. now we're closing if for no effort even when it does have code.. and I wouldn't be surprised if we'd also close it if it had had an error message.. for the same reason. We keep changing the rules to fit with some reason to get rid of a post.
 
@Scratte Not sure I can follow you there. These are minimal requirements for a debugging question to be on-topic. They are needed so the question is still potentially useful to future visitors (which all questions should be). Not so sure about a question titled "... finding the wrong thing in my code". There are even two close reasons for debugging questions specifically (debugging details and typo/not reproducible).
@Scratte No, the reasons don't change. They are pretty clear. If you have a debugging questions, post an MCVE, input, expected output and error message.
 
4:05 PM
@JeanneDark The title is fair. The other reasons mentioned here is not, in my oipinion.
 
@Scratte At the tag, there are many high rep users, which watch very carefully about other user's actions.
 
@JeanneDark The error message is only needed if the program gives you one, no? You can't expect people to find one if the program doesn't produce it. The help page was created to help with what's needed, but I hardly think it meant to be used to close posts that couldn't provide with all the elements due to reasonable things.
 
How much of this answer should I remove? stackoverflow.com/a/64287087/1839439
 
dbc
@Dharman Remove the first three and last paragraphs, maybe?
 
Vega was quicker by 3 seconds
 
4:20 PM
@JeanneDark Heads up: Your flag was good and justified.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ Thank you again!
 
4:41 PM
Is this seeking recommendations?
 
@cigien I saw that today, and had the same thought. I've been looking around for dupes a bit, but did only find questions about very specific single compiler flags. In the end asking for a whole table of these, seems to be too broad. And BTW, I didn't find any exernal resources regarding that either, I don't think such a translation table can even exist beyond the trivial stuff like -L, -I etc.
 
Is this related to the Question at all?
 
@πάνταῥεῖ I'm not sure whether an external resource actually existing or not should be relevant. Asking for it is off-topic, no? And yes, asking for a complete answer that doesn't link to an external resource would be too broad.
 
@cigien I VTC as needs more focus now.
 
5:02 PM
Looks very spammy to me
 
5:33 PM
@Dharman I noticed you edited this. But is it anything other than cheap spam?
 
@AdrianMole I edited it to see better and then flagged as spam
 
OK - just wanted to check if you spotted something I missed.
 
It's gone
 
@Dharman STO = Service to Others
 
5:43 PM
What does that mean?
 
I thought it was "Suffer The Outcome"
 
Stoopids Tell Obstacles
 
6:01 PM
@Scratte The explicit requirements are: A) "the desired behavior"; B) "a specific problem or error"; and C) "the shortest code necessary to reproduce it". So, no, an actual error message is not required, if one is not produced. What's required as part (B) of the requirements is explicitly stating exactly what the specific problem is (i.e. what's happening that the OP thinks shouldn't happen, or what's not happening that the OP thinks should happen).
4
To put it more generally (and in a way that is more clearly not code specific, but more applicable to "I think something should happen that's not happening" and/or "something is happening which I think should not happen"): We need enough information to be able to duplicate the problem. We need to know exactly what the OP thinks is the problem, not just a general "it doesn't work". We need to know what the OP thinks/expects the correct behavior is.
These are just the basic information that's necessary for people to be able to understand what the issue is and begin to address/fix/solve the problem. Without that amount of information, we're reduced to guessing. Based on experience, we might be able to make really good guesses as to what the issue is and what's wrong, but they are still guesses.
 
I agree with that :) I reacted to what I perceived as someone saying that if there's no error message, then the post should be closed.
I think the list of various online debuggers didn't really help with that message.
 
 
1 hour later…
7:14 PM
Does anyone know what this Answer is trying to say?
 
@Scratte It's garbage. A parent is asking what is their son's student ID
 
@Dharman You read foreign-English very well :)
2
 
@Scratte It says 'please close this question as the OP has posted homework without making any attempt to solve the problem themselves'
 
@DavidBuck I know you're just trying to tease me now :)
It's from 2011 :D
 
 
1 hour later…
Is there an Answer there on the firstly line?
 
Q: vue.js how to call multiple url data in single axios
 
@Scratte No. It's an observation
 
Ehh.. did that Answer disappear while the Question migrated? :)
 
@Scratte I deleted it first
 
 
2 hours later…
10:38 PM
 

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