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4:14 AM
. o O ( Otto is 70!? i think i spider ... i grow old :( )
 
also a bit broad
 
 
2 hours later…
OP edited their closed question but the edit doesn't offer any improvement, and makes it worse in some ways. Should this be rolled back or should we just leave the question to wither? stackoverflow.com/posts/53378469/revisions
(the edit was picked up by Smoke Detector)
 
6:54 AM
@tripleee Normally, I'd just leave it to be Roomba'd. I'm, generally, a proponent of allowing the user all the normally available time in the on-hold➞closed➞Roomba process for them to update their question to be on-topic, and prefer not to spend delete-votes on questions that will Roomba. However, this question, by it's nature, is unlikely to be changed to be on-topic. If the user still wants to ask about something related that is on-topic, they are better off with a new question.
 
@Makyen my question had more to do with rolling back the junk edit
do you think I should? or is it better to leave it?
 
@tripleee I'd probably just leave it. The edit isn't that bad. They did refine what it is they wanted, a bit. Obviously, it's still off-topic. But, I'm largely meh for this particular question/edit.
 
yeah, I'll leave it then, that was my tentative conclusion as well
 
7:15 AM
@SmokeDetector user has same link in profile
 
 
3 hours later…
9:56 AM
@MatthieuBrucher [tag:cv-pls] Please edit
 
yes, sorry, mistake, early morning :(
 
1
Q: Burninate "chip"

Lundinchip is a useless tag, exclusively used by people with no electronics knowledge, as a placeholder for the correct term. Which would be microcontroller, analog-to-digital converter etc: different forms of integrated circuits. There's apparently also various other forms of "chip" used in JavaScrip...

 
@MatthieuBrucher OK. As it is, the request won't be found by searches or the script that shows people open requests (the Unclosed Request Review Script). In addition, requests for duplicate closure usually don't proceed that quickly, so It's likely that the request will benefit from being find-able after it scrolls off the chat page. So, please re-post the request. Another time, there's a drop-down menu at the left edge of your messages that allows you to edit the message.
 
@Feeds But I prefer my chips nicely cooked in the fryer, with a side of battered Cod, not burnt :(
Morning all btw o/
 
Thanks for the notice.
Oh, I didn't see the edit option...
Thanks @Makyen
 
10:14 AM
 
10:36 AM
Now that they're gone from the room, I didn't realise that the People's Liberation Army had a StackOverflow account...
Unless by some tiny chance it's satire
 
Plop
 
!!/location
 
plip!
 
o/
 
@E_net4iskindandwelcoming My cat's tail is only too broad when something's given him a good fright
 
10:39 AM
@MichaelDodd Don't close the door on your cat. ;)
 
@E_net4iskindandwelcoming Not my fault that he thinks it's a good idea to dash through at the last moment :P
 
@MichaelDodd The thrill of danger!
 
10:57 AM
Hiya \o
 
Hi!
 
\o
 
11:17 AM
FYI.. MS is down currently. Expect issues with SD
in Charcoal HQ on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, 31 mins ago, by Makyen
@angussidney @ThomasWard @NobodyNada @Henders @iBug It looks like MS going down has managed to cause SD to become non-responsive and none of the instances to come out of standby. For the first one of you that gets in, could you kick your instance(s) so we have an SD instance running. The rest of you may need to also kick your instances to get them running in standby (status unknown, although all were pinging MS just fine prior to it going down). Thanks.
 
11:40 AM
 
jps
12:30 PM
can I ask to reject an edit here? : stackoverflow.com/questions/53473391/… someone edited this after it was put on hold, but only made cosmetical changes, nothing significant
 
@jps I don't see an edit for the post :/ perhaps already rejected.
 
12:47 PM
@bummi Smokey's having a few issues today. Looks like the answer's already been deleted though
Let's see if smokey's back up...
Guess the answer's no then
 
1:08 PM
o/
 
\o
 
1:31 PM
Morning. To all the surviving turkeys, congratulations, you've made it \o/
5
 
\o gobble gobble
 
Thanksgiving, the original hunger games
 
@NathanOliver yeah, until Christmas!
 
jps
1:58 PM
@MatthieuBrucher thanks Matthieu, it was rejected by Michael Dodd (thanks)
 
2:15 PM
morning. back from vacation!
 
2:29 PM
Don't use magic numbers, they are not portable ;)
 
;)
@gunr2171 My apologies :/
 
In other news, @TylerH is now officially cooler than myself, congrats!
 
2:45 PM
@gunr2171 nice leaderboard, but the search button doesn't seems to work
 
¯\_(ツ)_/¯, I didn't make it, not sure who did (so you can complain their way :) )
 
@gunr2171 I didn't know it existed until now :)
 
I didn't know it existed until yesterday
 
SO is full of mysteries
 
very much yes
 
jrh
2:51 PM
I'm kinda considering making a meta post about this but I figure I'd ask here first in case I missed it, is there a canonical post already out there for when it's okay to flag an answer that is totally irrelevant to the question? I just had a flag declined for this answer ("declined - flags should not be used to indicate technical inaccuracies, or an altogether wrong answer")
Since this answer is for Visual Studio, not VS Code, I figured this would be an open and shut case, the IDEs are so different it's like answering an Eclipse question with a VS answer
 
^ accepted answer there is from a former moderator. I'll see if I can find anything else
 
jrh
@user202729 i.stack.imgur.com/ehtIs.png <-- Is there anything I could have done to make this custom mod flag any clearer?
 
yeah, that sounds contradictory to the suggested behavior in that meta post
 
VS code doesn't sound completely different from VS, so there's probably that.
 
jrh
2:56 PM
This isn't the first time I've unsuccessfully flagged an answer like this, I also got a declined flag when flagging a WPF answer to a Winforms question, and a declined flag on an uh... database (?) answer to a Winforms question
 
the problem is that VS code and VS, while having similar names, are WILDLY different applications.
 
jrh
probably, but should I not even bother? Should I just assume that mods don't even read flag descriptions?
I mean that's like saying a Java answer works for a Javascript question
 
I think we need to trust that moderators do read custom flag descriptions
 
Flag descriptions don't even show in the default view, just the post that got flagged. /s
 
jrh
@JohnDvorak ouch. That's unfortunate...
 
2:58 PM
However, as much as we hate to admit it, moderators are human, they can make mistakes.
 
Per this an orange is NAA
afk
 
@jrh maybe, it's interpreted as still an answer, even if it's a bad one
 
jrh
@Bebs I think wrong answers should be kept in some scenarios, but IMO if this isn't NAA, nothing is
 
@Bebs But it's the same as having the question "How do I change the theme in Chrome" and getting a response "In Firefox, you go to the Add Ins menu".
 
@gunr2171 I agree with you guys, I'm just trying to think what mod thought :)
 
3:06 PM
@jrh have you started writing up a meta post?
 
jrh
@gunr2171 no
 
At this point, I would. use .
 
jrh
I feel funny writing up posts that read more or less "how on earth could you (a volunteer) screw this up" but after having this problem 4x in a row over several years, I'm considering it...
 
Well, maybe don't frame it as "wow you're dumb"
 
jrh
yeah I know, I'm thinking about how to not make it sound like that
 
3:08 PM
If you want to pre-write it in a github gist or something we can review it before you post it
 
jrh
if I did write one I'd do it after work so it would be several hours from now
 
3:22 PM
Any native speaker of English: what is better/correct/preferred: "The data that is used" or "the data which is used"?
 
@Adriaan 2nd, but really depends on the rest of the sentence
also "the data that is being used" is fine
 
^ I'd lose the "that is"
 
also that
 
"the data being used"
or "the data used", depending on context :/
 
@StephenKennedy that works well in my case! Thanks! Tries to put accept mark
 
3:27 PM
:) yw
 
Obs not going to check on the work network though
 
@StephenKennedy you made me go through my entire thesis again to fix this problem :( My stupid Dunglish. Man it must be esy being a native speaker when writing science :p
 
Got gambling in the websense proxy for me.
So it's an illegal website.
 
3:43 PM
By 21:00 UTC we will know whether the InSight Mars lander has actually landed, or gone up in flame/crashed to bits. Live stream by NASA available from 20:00 UTC
8
 
wonders if there is a checkbox to confirm that the calculation, and the programming, was done in the same unit of measure.
 
@NathanOliver NASA decided to sack anyone using those rubbish units you louts across the pond use :P
 
If it doesn't go well, my future PhD is ruined :D Exciting times
@StephenKennedy another question about English, I'm often confused about therefor vs therefore. There's this blog trying to explain the difference, but I'm still in the dark which one to use in the following:
> If only a few PCs explain most of the total variance in the data, there is redundancy in the frequency domain of the data, and performing sparse reconstruction can possibly help reduce the amount of required data. It therefor(e) is likely that choosing frequencies based on those components will give a good representation of the data with only few frequencies.
 
@Adriaan therefore because the second sentence explains a consequence flowing from the info provided in the first sentence. (But I'd like a second opinion :))
 
3:56 PM
therefore as well.
 
therefor would be used later in the phrase, not as an adverb.
 
Going through the thesis again :D
 
just replace the words in your thesis with cat images
 
s/therefore/\includegraphics[]{img\/cat.png}/g
 
4:19 PM
I've been going through a user's post history to find 7 (and counting) instances of plagiarism and just found one where they plagiarize from one of my answers.
2
that's a first
 
@SotiriosDelimanolis Congrats? ;p I haven't seen any instances of me being plagiarized yet :/
 
had that happen to me before.. Two users.. one copied the question and another copied my answer to that question.. followed by a swarm of votes :p
imitation is the sincerest form of flattery @SotiriosDelimanolis
 
@SotiriosDelimanolis We'll keep the mod flags flying~
 
Yeah, it's more motivating for the moderation part than anything else
I was going to stop after like 3-4 flags
 
4:35 PM
hah found it chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/42604717 it was deleted long back :p
 
4:52 PM
This is annoying, I'm going through a question with pages of answers voting where I find appropriate and I've started getting "You haven't voted on questions in a while; questions need votes too!"
 
@shellter What do you mean by bump? Has a cv-pls already been posted for it?
 
I'm assuming it has, but don't want to spend the time looking ;-)
 
OK. If you don't want to check that's fine, you can leave the bump and votes needed text out of the request.
 
OK
 
5:10 PM
It's sad to see a mod comment there instead of close/migrate it.
 
@shellter you might want to slow down, given the last 7 cv-pls are from you
 
@Adriaan Is that really a problem? I just want to spend some time doing this and then go do some other things. ;-)
I don't think my CV-PLS's are frivoulous, do you?
 
I'm not commenting on the quality of them, just pointing to FAQ #12, but that's for the ROs to uphold. I'm just notifying
 
user4639281
@shellter Generally close vote requests should be reserved for questions that are either in need of quick closing such as to prevent a deluge of guess answers to an overly broad or unclear question, or for cases where it is evident that the question is unlikely to be closed otherwise (like if it sits open for a day with no close votes). You should not be submitting a close vote request for every question you vote to close.
 
5:26 PM
OK, I had a different understanding of the purpose of the chat group. I'll go onto my other things for the day. Cheers!
 
5:40 PM
@gunr2171 pfft, pretty sure you made it long ago (or maybe rene did), but I am definitely sure I've mentioned it here several times :-P
@Adriaan Dang, that's at the exact time as my annual employee review...
 
5:55 PM
oh wow that username
@TylerH probably rene
 
@StephenKennedy I mod flagged just for the name
 
grr metasmoke has a green tick from me but the text is from before it was edited to change the link to a dodgy one
!!/blame
 
@StephenKennedy It's SmokeDetector's fault.
 
hmm. is MS working at the moment?
 
@Bebs works for me: heather-eggnog.glitch.me/?userid=811 but if you searched for your own userid you'll not find anything as you're not in the db, you don't have cv privilege and with that no close reviews.
 
6:16 PM
@NathanOliver Consensus in charcoal appears to be to go tp on this one. I doubt you're bothered abt invalidation but a heads up in case I'm wrong :) metasmoke.erwaysoftware.com/post/145513
 
@StephenKennedy Yeah, that was a fail by me. I just looked at the title since that is what MS called out, not the whole post
 
@gunr2171 yep, guilty as charged /cc @TylerH
 
what's the sentencing?
community service by answering no less than 5 php questions?
 
eewwww
 
@gunr2171 Must complete one full week of reviews in the HIQ
 
6:21 PM
eeeeeeeewwwwwww
 
that's even worse!
 
I'm sorry, but isn't not being able to answer PHP questions a benefit?
 
@JohnDvorak The trick is finding 5 PHP questions that are answerable
 
On what sort of PHP should he answer questions? See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PHP_(disambiguation)
 
6:35 PM
@AdrianHHH I'll take Parents Helping Parents for $500 Alex
 
@Machavity the best part is that site is written in PHP
 
@gunr2171 Recursive Internet ;)
 
7:09 PM
NASA broadcast has started (still pre-show)
 
@gunr2171 my fingernails have almost gone already!
Let's see whether I'll have a job left after this evening!
Pre-landing show is in Murican units. NASA, you lousy bunch of wannabe scientists :(
 
@HovercraftFullOfEels can you please hammer this for NPE? It's be reopened twice but it's just a convoluted mess that can be solved the same as all the others stackoverflow.com/questions/53486733/…
 
@Adriaan A meter is a device used for measurement, not a unit of measurement ;)
Not sure what the flag is all about
 
@NathanOliver mhm, let's agree to disagree, especially in science
 
Yeah, that was an odd thing to flag
 
7:15 PM
I'll try not comment on Imperial units not being suitable for science, apologies
 
in British English the device/unit have different spellings
 
Personally I prefer the metric system. I'm just too used to the "standard" system to want to change away from miles.
 
@NathanOliver "Frequent flyer kilometers" just doesn't have the same ring...
3
 
@NathanOliver I'm afraid that's the thing for the US government as a whole. IIRC a lot of "official" standards of government agencies are actually defined in metric units, as they have a proper foundation (proper in the sense of scientifically accurate and measurable).
 
7:17 PM
metres!
Frequent Flyer Metres sounds alright :)
 
@StephenKennedy Frequent Flyer Femtometres actually alliterates
although that's frighteningly accurate
 
Also, congrats SI for defining Kq in terms of plancks constant
 
Yea, weird stuff that. Good thing though, it was the last of the seven base-units to be defined in terms of natural constants as opposed to something French
 
Unfortunately it means these guys just have a very smooth paper weight now (yes, the pun was intended)
 
Insight Probe: What's in your planet?
 
7:30 PM
@Machavity I hope to be able to tell you in little over three years. You're welcome to my PhD defence :p
 
@Adriaan After decades of research, we have determined Mars is made of cumin and cheese
 
@Machavity not even chocolate? That's a disappointment :(
 
@Adriaan On the plus side, we'll make grilled cheese great again.
 
7:51 PM
@Makyen Could you add filtering for the del-pls button, so it doesn't show up if an answer doesn't have a negative score?
 
@Adriaan A lot of meters being called out there :P
 
@SotiriosDelimanolis the question you marked as dupe was more a typo
 
@Compass Sorry, which one?
 
his logic was negative balance -> exception, and then set a positive balance
 
@Compass Error: Unhandled exception type NegativebalanceException, their main method doesn't compile because the constructor declares a checked exception and that isn't handled
 
7:56 PM
gaaaaaah
dives into litter box and hides
 
@Machavity you have no idea what those are do you? :D
 
@SotiriosDelimanolis I'm certainly willing to add showing nothing as an option, if it's really desired. However, I think that having the ability to open the UI on answers is desirable, even when the answer doesn't qualify for a delete-vote. If nothing is there, then you can't set a revisit (I use this regularly to check to see if people make changes based on comments), or send the various flag requests. If you don't desire to see "del-pls", what would you suggest be the text used (I'm currently undecided)?
Note: if the question or answer is not eligible for delete-votes, the script will show a warning in the UI and require the user to click-through a confirmation dialog in order to actually send the del-pls request.
 
\o/ touchdown! InSight has landed!
 
Woot. Adriaan now has PhP PhD work to get to.
 
@NathanOliver ghe, thank God it's not php, that'd be horrible
 
@JohnDvorak No
 
Looks fine to me
 
Poll: What bothers you more recently (at seasons)? 1. Lack of overall research.
2. Lack of debugging efforts
3. Lack of appropriate reading of quite clear compiler error messages.
4. Silly restrictions given for tasks by incompetent teachers.
5. Asking about basic misconceptions or for XY problem blinders.
 
What do you mean by 'at seasons'?
 
4 and 5 aren't so bad, it happens. 1-3 I dislike
 
8:52 PM
@TylerH Sep to Feb new semesters
 
Regardless, I would say 1, 2, and 3 in that order
I agree 4 and 5 aren't particularly frustrating
 
yep, 1-3 are worse than 4-5
 
4 is easily explained that the teacher wants the students to understand how something works, before just letting them use it. I can see both sides of the argument and I'm not sure, If I were to teach a class, which side of the fence I would be on.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ compiler error messages ... is that where the compiler apologizes to me for not understanding me yet?
 
4 and 5 are not giving well results by means of the FAQ intend of the site. It mostly goes for going beyond the restrictions, or being too broad how to do your homebrew as required by your overall requirement analysis.
@rene It's merely where you called out the wrong spell, and the compiler complains just right spelling it back to you :3
 
9:03 PM
hmm, magic
 
@rene No, it's plain science. You'd probably want to attend the Unssen University ;)
 
:D
 
@rene I just noticed that there's even a serious pun for that latest statement of mine XD
That particularly applies for topic point 4
@rene I really liked that abracadabra<salamaleikum> meme for describing c++ :D
It fairly describes that the preferred method for dealing with interfaces in c++ actually is to use templates.
@gunr2171 Quick off between two meetings?
@gunr2171 Continue with deletion. At your service.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ no meetings today \o/
 
10:01 PM
 
jrh
@gunr2171 I gave it a shot: Not sure if I'd post that, maybe it just isn't worth it, the answer's at -9 anyway.
 
11:36 PM
@jrh "Someone's wrong on the internet" is the entire reason we have meta.
reading what you've got...
 
Rob
@jrh I wasn't involved in that flag, but I suspect your meta post won't be very well received. It's been pretty much cemented that an incorrect answer isn't a flaggable offense. We even have a standard decline reason: "flags should not be used to indicate technical inaccuracies, or an altogether wrong answer". That said, you're right.. we don't have a way to handle blatantly incorrect answers properly. meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/368875 may be of interest to you
 
@Rob since you're here, does my version sound better?
 
jrh
@Rob I'm inclined to agree, which is part of my reluctance to post it
or to put it more bluntly, I don't think I want to see my inbox count go to 500 for this
 
ok, re-reading Rob's message, I understand my version will receive the same feedback
 
Rob
@gunr2171 It's got the same problem: It's been pretty much agreed upon that NAA actually means not an attempt to answer, rather than not an answer to the question. That said, I do agree we need a way to handle it. I mentioned it in the mod room that I dislike declining flags like that because I feel that we lead users to failure. I'd be super happy if VLQ flags were fed into a system that badge holders can review and never sent to mods. And then rename NAA to 'Not an ATTEMPT to answer'.
 
jrh
11:43 PM
@Rob I would like that too, and I think it would be a very positive thing to have on the site
 
^ very much agree
 
jrh
semi-related to this, IMO the "just get 10k" repliers are kind of saying "leave it to the high rep users", but IMO SO is a big site and it could use help from us low rep people too.
though that's just my opinion, I get the feeling that y'all would rather take this on yourselves... if anything changes I'll be happy to help clean stuff up
 
user4639281
Delete votes, all I'm going to say.
 
jrh
@TinyGiant how would I do that?
 
user4639281
Get 20k
 
jrh
11:49 PM
Never going to happen
 
isn't such question (stackoverflow.com/questions/53380234/…) off topic? ... it has a bounty now
 
user4639281
@jrh Instead of attacking it as "We need to make mods review answers for technical accuracy", we should be attacking it as "We need to make it easier for people who are reviewing things for technical accuracy to delete inaccurate things". That does not mean "Make this qualify as NaA", it means "Make the rep requirement for delete votes lower"
 
jrh
FWIW, so far I like the idea of gold badge holders getting their own review queue for NAA; I'd say my situation is... unusual. I wouldn't advise giving every 200 rep user delete votes.
 
user4639281
I mean, honestly lowering the reputation requirement from 20k to 10k and having the same limitations as question delete votes makes a lot of sense to me
 
jrh
Does halving the reputation limit significantly increase the voting population?
 
user4639281
11:55 PM
I don't have any numbers on that but I'd imagine so
 
user4639281
The problem is that you don't want to increase the voting population too much. Triage is a very good example of a large voting population that does a horrible job at classifying content.
 
user4639281
You also don't want to make it too easy to delete stuff.
 
jrh
It's an option I guess, with the existing population of high rep users I see a good bit of stuff that slips through the cracks, I guess you could either make more voters (more eyeballs) or make "flag review queues" (make it easier to get bad content in front of people who can vote)
And yeah, if hypothetically deletion became something that a couple of angry users could do for no reason, it would not be a great system, community curated content is hard, heh
 

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