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8:00 PM
@Tunaki Oh okay...
 
k blaklist the user
 
@Tunaki User removed from blacklist (6195308 on stackoverflow.com).
 
thanks Smokey
 
... can I get a cheat sheet / API reference for Smokey?
 
8:03 PM
Oh, thanks. The last time I checked this wiki page was outdated.
 
Gold badge for 1M Javascript questions. -1 score for 1M Java questions. Figures.
 
8:26 PM
It's really silent here...
 
@Ferrybig deafeningly so?
 
*it's
 
hmmmmmmmmmm
@Floern why so? It looks like a geuine attempt to improve the answer
 
I rejected it. It's extensive enough to be a standalone answer.
 
@Tunaki so much new content, it could be another answer
 
8:36 PM
Perhaps. I'll refrain from voting on that one though.
 
@Tunaki mine was the 5th vote. So it was rejected 3:2.
 
@Floern i would love to see more users adding real value to existing answers rather than tooting their own horns.
 
So I'm the OP from that question before.
I removed the burninate-request- seems like that was a mistake.
 
@cimmanon me too, but I see a limit regarding quantity
 
Oh hiya @Moshe o/
 
8:40 PM
Many mutability tags also have immutability.
Hi @Tunaki
:waves:
 
@Moshe yeah. It's probably just a retag/synonym request.
 
I think those tags should not be burned yeah. But merged, definitely.
 
^
 
the counter argument is that they're different aspects of one comp science concept.
Like locking and synchronization are to threading.
Except it seems that most people favor the negative version of the tag, immutability
So even if one were to merge the tags, which becomes the main one?
 
Plop Moshe! Welcome =D
 
8:43 PM
@Moshe Maybe because mutability is the typical setting for a lot of procedural code. So making something immutable is the exception. Which is what people have questions for.
 
like i said in my answer, i suspect the popularity of the negative version is due to "derp, immutability is close enough to immutable". i would choose mutability myself
 
I personally think that mutability is the overall concept and should be the main tag.
 
@ryanyuyu my thoughts exactly.
 
Can we imagine someone following the tag mutability but not following immutability?
 
People have more questions about the exception rather than what has become the rule.
@tunaki, how do you mean?
 
8:45 PM
@Tunaki that's a pretty good test for whether they should be synonyms.
 
And they should: if I follow [mutable], I'm interested in the concept. I'm not an expert at making mutable classes
 
That's similar to my book index test I guess.
 
Yeah I agree with both of you.
 
More extremely: There's no such thing as immutability. The correct word is mutability, which describes if an object is mutable or immutable.
 
^ yes
 
8:47 PM
well, my spellchecker doesnt think immutability is spelled wrong :p
 
@Moshe consider editing that into your meta post if you haven't already.
 
@cimmanon true but it's not a CS concept.
 
@ryanyuyu I tihnk @cimmanon answer covers it
 
Oh hey I forgot to upvote it. Poof, Nice Question badge =p
 
@Tunaki duh. I even upvoted that.
 
8:49 PM
1 message moved to Trash
 
My spellchecker doesn't flag the word marathoning, but that doesn't make it a valid SO tag.
 
haha
 
He trashed the feeds D:
 
i could think of lots of words that arent spelled wrong that wouldnt be valid tags on SO :p
 
@cimmanon @Tunaki how about this suggested edit
 
8:51 PM
@Floern Errr, not the same in my book. I'd reject this one.
 
Wai Ha Lee passed a audit!
 
@Floern editing post by Lightness Barry Lightness, good luck with that
 
It rewrites part of the answer.
 
@Tunaki although it's the asker who wants to improve the answer
 
Are you saying my book is broken? :p
 
8:53 PM
So what happens with this post now?
 
@Moshe nothing?
oh, the meta one?
 
Yeah
 
can someone here propose the tag synonym?
i.e. has enough points in those tags
 
there can be some python mutability peeps as well
 
I'm not a "mutability" expert.
But I'd let it sit for a day or two
 
8:54 PM
only mods can merge tags, right? so assuming no one comes up with a good reason not to merge, we have to wait for them to do it
 
Just to get the best representation of the community's view on the concept.
 
That's a good idea.
 
Martijn Pieters has 63 in immutability
 
note that synonyming tags isnt the same as merging
 
I'm quite ignorant about the subtleties of tag manipulations
 
8:57 PM
 
By the way, dy'all know that you can vote for synonyms suggestions you can actually vote on here? stackoverflow.com/tags/synonyms?filter=suggested&tab=newest
 
hah, nice
I did not know that
 
Wai Ha Lee passed a audit!
 
There are so many suggested synonyms. And practically no-one votes for any of them.
 
WAIT A MINUTE
I can vote on synonyms??:O
 
9:04 PM
I have some pending for 6 months now :/
@AndrasDeak well, yeah?
 
I thought that would never happen to me:D
 
HA
I HAVE THE PERFECT EXAMPLE
 
YOU DO?
 
About mutability and immutability
 
now tell me how do I actually get to vote?:P
 
9:06 PM
I suggested as synonym: [unboxing] -> [boxing] and [autoboxing] -> [boxing]
boxing is the concept. Unboxing means going from a wrapper class to a primitive type and "boxing" (the word is the same...) is the opposite
 
OH I SEE
you need to check the target tag to vote
@Tunaki you liar
 
I never lie.
Even when I do.
 
@Tunaki ugh, John Slegers is making a lot of really bad synonym suggestions ><
 
@cimmanon Ha, you too noticed that?
 
fonts <- unicode
 
9:09 PM
Huh
date <- time
 
@cimmanon HA I'm just about to decline one:)
 
object <- instance
 
you spared me the work of looking up the guy
 
^ that he proposed I can vote on
 
he proposed a synonym for a tag that only has one question in it, rather than just removing the tag ><
 
9:10 PM
<-/- thanks to yours truly
 
^ I voted on that one also
We share a tag @Andras!
 
OK, Tunaki helped too
@Tunaki woo!
 
We're experts in the \o/
 
I'm more like a noob, but yeah:D \o/
well, on SO
otherwise I kick matrix ass
 
now, how the heck did I earn those points :D
 
9:11 PM
:D
 
Ha I see two answers in that tag apparently
 
just like you have a post in jquery:P
0 score, but still
 
I do?
 
the tag is present in your profile, yes
and no multiplicity, so 1 post probably
 
I don't anymore :).
 
9:17 PM
:D
shame-based self-delete?
 
Actually, I forgot it completely about it. Unclear question, meh.
 
Cindy Meister has started reviewing!
 
Off to me tree bed. Bonne nuit!
 
This last message of mine made no sense. Hmm.
 
Sam
Night
 
9:26 PM
Time to go as well, night!
 
good night
@ÊžaÊŽess if you come this way again: no no no no no freemail no no no:P
 
@AndrasDeak Hungarian is such a weird language
 
that was English, dude
 
rene has added an event to this room's schedule.
rene has added an event to this room's schedule.
 
Sam
Subscribe to all teh tings!
 
9:40 PM
rene has added an event to this room's schedule.
rene has added an event to this room's schedule.
rene has added an event to this room's schedule.
 
Is there a way to not be notified about these events?
 
Sam
Userscript?
Besides that, just leave the room for a week or so.
 
Do you have one?
 
Sam
Sadly no.
 
When was the last 05:00 UTC event?
 
Sam
9:41 PM
Shouldn't be too hard to make one though.
@rene Wait, we had events at that time?
 
yep
 
@Sam dom mutation -> change dom && send post ?
 
most often ran by Tiny, now attended by Kevin and MsY but I forget to check how they are coping with that event without RO presence
 
Will do, I guess
 
Sam
@JanDvorak So... jQuery it is.
 
9:45 PM
Luckily I can grab it from the window
 
rene has added an event to this room's schedule.
rene has added an event to this room's schedule.
rene has added an event to this room's schedule.
 
Where does one vote on a synonym?
 
@Moshe on the tag page?
 
@Moshe at the target tag's info page
 
wonder why Robert Harvey♦ suggested that...
 
9:51 PM
Who here is familiar with @Rob's close vote tracker?
 
@Shog9 I have looked at it once
 
Not in regular use here though?
 
It is the same idea as Drew has
@Shog9 Not by me but others here might use it. I see it as an other tool to use your close votes
The tool was/is advertised in this room
Is there an issue?
 
Rob
@Shog9 Hey, just woke up now - I've stopped the app now
 
@Rob cool, thanks
 
9:54 PM
Plop!
 
@Adriaan I've noticed you've started reviewing! I'll update your session record.
 
sorry to wake you up, but that'd gotten a wee bit heavy
 
Rob
Yeah, just had a look - it had a huge amount queued up, not sure what happened. Was it just an issue today, or in general over the last few days?
 
@Rob "recently"
donno exactly when it became a burden, but the data team had to work around your account breaking things, so...
 
Sam
SOCVR - breaking things as usual.
 
9:56 PM
there's no hard quota for site requests; we generally hard-block scrapers that become an issue, but since this was your actual site account...
 
Sam
@Shog9 So there's no issue with the concept of such a site?
 
@Sam what is the concept?
beyond, "rough picture of what's in the queue"?
 
Rob
Alright - well I'll keep it down for now, until I can get it into a usable state while still significantly reducing its load
 
Sam
@Shog9 To allow users to spend their votes in a manner they deem more effective.
By providing filters of various types.
 
@Rob yeah; as a rule of thumb, try & use the API for stuff like this - it's a lot less overhead. If you're exceeding the API quota, it's not gonna be less of a problem hitting the site ;-)
 
9:58 PM
@rene I've noticed you've started reviewing! I'll update your session record.
 
@Sam such as?
 
@Shog9 but I think reviews is not yet in the API?
 
Rob
Yeah, unfortunately I couldn't use the API for everything - though I did try to keep well under the API throttle in any case.. I'll have another look to see how far I can get with just the API (maybe some stuff isn't really needed)
 
Sam
@Shog9 IIRC, current CV count being the most used one.
 
Rob
@Shog9 It lets you search questions by tags/ close vote count / close vote type / state, etc
 
10:00 PM
@Rob I suspect grabbing close vote counts would've been the big one there. I briefly scanned your scraper logic; looks like it's driven by reviews, which... We increased recently.
 
Rob
For example, searching C# with 1 duplicate vote (useful if someone had a C# hammer)
 
Close vote counts are available via the API, btw.
 
Rob
Hm, must have missed that. I'll look into it the next few days. Would it be alright to ping you in a few days (if) I start it up with the new changes.. to see that it's doing a reasonable amount of requests?
 
@Rob yeah, that's fine
 
Rob
Cool. Anyway - gotta get ready for work.. Sorry about the issues
 
10:02 PM
@Shog9 yes, but not if a question is in the CVQ or not.
 
@Rob no worries, just ping me before you fire it back up.
 
Adriaan passed an audit!
 
@Closey SO hipster!
 
@rene ok. So, here's my thoughts on this: that stuff was available in the old (ooooold) review interface, and it was very handy... Also really, really slow and mostly not used, which is why we simplified it in the review re-write back in 2012.
The goal of review is to get more eyeballs on stuff; not necessarily random eyeballs, but definitely different eyeballs.
let's say, diverse eyeballs
folks who wouldn't necessarily be looking at the questions otherwise
 
10:04 PM
We have all kind of eyeballs here
 
Sam
I have square eyeballs.
 
user image
3
anyway, that goal doesn't preclude useful filters, but it does sorta imply that if you're getting too specific you maybe shouldn't be in /review
For example, if you got 10K there's a handy list of recent questions with close votes. You can, if you wished, refresh every few minutes and pick off the ones that appeal to you in some way.
 
Hi Shog!
 
'evening
 
Sam
@Shog9 IIRC, the questions provided by Rob's program aren't based around the review queues though.
 
10:07 PM
...But that's cherry-picking; you're not clearing a queue.
 
I'm glad to hear that collected CV info is not a priori frowned upon:)
 
I can live with the CVQ as it is but the recent increase of CV's and the challenge that came with it made that some of us wanted to use their votes as effectively as possible, hence the extra tools.
 
@Sam right. So reviewing them in /review/close isn't exactly kosher
 
hmm
 
I like the idea of encouraging folks to focus on specific tags and close reasons though
That doesn't preclude, y'know, reviewing in the /review sense of the word
 
Sam
10:08 PM
Right
 
@Shog9 That was one of the reasons why the timeline bug was good for us me:) I could see a review link when I got to a question from outside the queue
 
pls. Every day a few basic pure-latex question enter the site, and they don't get migrated before they're answered.
 
@Adriaan if they're poo, shouldn't be migrated
I'd be surprised if those daily posts were mostly non-poo
 
one of the big problems with close review has always (always - going back to 2011) been getting stuff out of the queue that didn't need to be closed. It's (relatively) easy to get stuff out by closing it, but the more effective that becomes, the more "meh" tasks are there clogging it up for folks who aren't filtering.
 
@AndrasDeak I don't know enough about LaTeX to see that, but the ones I see have a decent question statement + code example. Might be duplicates on tex.SE though
 
10:10 PM
I'd still wager that still the majority of the CVQ is stuck crap, not stuck non-crap:/
 
"crap" is relative
2
 
when I cast 60 votes a day until recently, I usually saw only a few posts that were clearly improved since gathering close votes
 
cow crap, elephant crap, chicken crap; all very different sorts
 
well, the real issue is obvious non-crap, right?:)
I mean no-MCVE edited into shape
unclear post made crystal-clear
these would stick around now until their votes age away (or robos close them up), but I'd expect these to be a tiny minority
 
'Gimme Teh Codez of the Month' entry: stackoverflow.com/questions/36584950/…
 
10:13 PM
probably 2/3rds of the queue right now is questions with no upvoted answers, no accepted answers. Half of that scores < 0. IOW, if nothing changes they're gonna just get deleted anyway.
 
@MartinJames great way of going below 30 in 3 minutes, adding java, c, c# ànd C++ tags :p
 
The greatest sin on SO today isn't being ungodly awful, it's being boring
Not being useful, if you will
 
hmm
but those take a month/year, right?
 
@Shog9 do you have a percentage of people that actually use their votes somewhat regularly? (CVs/deletions that is, not up or down)
 
~30 days IIRC
 
10:14 PM
I'm not worried about the "challenge", I'm worried about the increasing daunt factor of the huge queue
 
How does SO rep system handle retaliatory downvotes?
 
@Shog9 can't you run a script to get those out?
 
@OliverQueen will be reversed at 03:00 UTC if there's been an inappropriate amount of them.
 
@rene you can only find out after the alloted time that they had no activity:S
 
@Shog9 The more useless and boring the question, them more 20k+ rep-PersonalServicesWorkers suck away at it:(
 
10:15 PM
otherwise it's not eligible for RemoveAbandoned or whatever
@MartinJames haha, true:D
 
So if there's only 1, nothing happens? :\
 
@OliverQueen I don't think so, and you shouldn't worry too much
 
@rene sure. Heck, they'll age out in a few days if nothing else. Which is probably the best we've come up with for getting stuff out.
 
sometimes you get downvoted for just having a competing answer
 
@OliverQueen no, that is just someone who lost their keys
 
10:16 PM
Okay guys, thanks!
 
@OliverQueen that's why you get +10 for an upvote (+5 on an answer) and loose only 2 on a downvote
 
And gals
 
heh, the flower and the pink elephant;)
 
Now, @Rob's duplicate filter example is a pretty damn good one, because these are questions that, even if they're boring, even if they're already answered, if there's a solid duplicate then identifying that can increase the "weight" of that duplicate, can potentially reduce the number of future duplicates.
 
It just irks me when it's a great answer. It could throw off visitors
 
10:17 PM
@Shog9 and gold badgers can speed it up?
@OliverQueen if it's a great answer, upvotes will come
 
@AndrasDeak Right, which means fewer votes needed, more productive reviewing...
 
I really wish there was some general weighting for gold badger close votes
 
@AndrasDeak and bronze/silver please.
 
nope
bronze is meaningless
 
If I spent my day around SO hunting the MATLAB tag, I'm usually 20-30 votes lighter at the end of the day, before I even hit the queue
 
10:19 PM
silver, maybe
 
Currently you have to rep-whore in order to be efficient at preventing rep-whoring.
 
@JanDvorak or an asshole (I use this approach)
 
I managed gold on MSO but on main I don't have much success in c#
 
@AndrasDeak That correlates
 
Sam
@rene same
 
10:20 PM
@OliverQueen there are many MSO posts on the subject, this is one of them and the epic key story
 
Thank you, Rene
 
rene passed an audit!
@Adriaan You've reviewed 60 posts today (of which 3 were audits), thanks! The time between your first and last review today was 31 minutes and 5 seconds, averaging to a review every 31 seconds.
 
Current breakdown of duplicate question review tasks in the close review queue:
Name                      DuplicateQuestionCloseReviewTasks
------------------------- ---------------------------------
javascript                112
php                       93
android                   78
c#                        70
java                      60
html                      54
mysql                     49
jquery                    47
css                       34
python                    33
c++                       32
ios                       31
c                         28
arrays                    26
 
Sam
Shog 'nd his awesome data mining abilities.
 
I set my filter to not include duplicates in the queue. Since I only know MATLAB I'm not capable of determining whether some JS thing is equal to some other JS thing
@Closey room stats
 
10:28 PM
nice, thanks, Shog
 
@Adriaan 15 members (15% of this room's able reviewers) have processed 535 review items today, which accounts for 24.32% of all CV reviews today.
@rene You've reviewed 60 posts today (of which 21 were audits), thanks! The time between your first and last review today was 27 minutes and 2 seconds, averaging to a review every 27 seconds.
 
21 audits?
you bet
 
@Closey ouch, that means only 2k reviews in total were done today? That's not much
 
@Adriaan Sorry, I don't understand that. Did you mean opt in?
 
@gunr2171 in the next meeting with your boss please ask for a math course ...
8
 
10:31 PM
@Adriaan which makes total sense. But of course, you could totally snag that 1 dup review in [matlab] right now...
 
Wai Ha Lee passed a audit!
 
(assuming you haven't already done so)
 
@Shog9 don't think so. I usually pass that to my gold badger buddies over in the MATLAB room ;) or at least they snipe me to it
 
Sam
@rene That's actually my code... Strange, this hasn't happened for a while.
 
10:33 PM
anyhow, it's late here. I'm going to rotate myself 90 degrees.
 
Sam
@Adriaan Must be a nice chair
 
@Sam very. Picked it up off the streets. Not sure whether it was trash or someone's moving though :D
 
Sam
xD
 
@Adriaan Better than some days: i.stack.imgur.com/3XyhZ.jpg.
 
@WaiHaLee You've reviewed 60 posts today (of which 6 were audits), thanks! The time between your first and last review today was 5 hours, 57 minutes, and 43 seconds, averaging to a review every 5 minutes and 57 seconds.
 
10:39 PM
Is this answer still link-only after the edit? stackoverflow.com/a/36585197/5299236
 
@KevinGuan didn't the author just add another link?:D
 
@AndrasDeak Yeah I think so. Without these links, I think that only You can check your certificate with an online SSL checker is helpful - is that enough?
 
@KevinGuan comment.
 
@Adriaan Thanks.
 
@rene # of audits is not my code
 
10:46 PM
Ok, ask your boss if @sam can go ?
 
we'll both attend, we'll have some fun
 
Sounds fine with me
It is already Wednesday here, I'm out for now ...
 
cya
 
Sam
@gunr2171 Yeah...
Cya
 
10:59 PM
@KevinGuan good luck with that one:/
160k rep whores are unlikely to budge
but thanks for backup:)
 
@AndrasDeak Hmm...we moderate posts, not users. So when I'm doing something with the post, I don't care about the users. So if you think you're correct on some sutff, just do it! =D
 
I don't have delete votes:(
otherwise I'd have already cast one, weeks ago:D
 
Yeah, try to be a 10ker then ;)
 
I'm on it...sort of
 
Well, I also want get 20k. But anyway, I can't get rep from flag/vote/edit. So I spend my whole day in the review queue, and what happened then? I can never get 20k, to help more :(
 
11:08 PM
yup
 
So I still wish that we can get rep from the review queue.
 
10k is the goal for me, all those deleted gems:D
@KevinGuan you what?
was that a thing?
oh, no, you just wish
 
Ah, yep.
 
I guess robos would be unstoppable then:S
 
Oh, about 10k, the Mod tools and NATO queue are also awesome!
 
11:10 PM
yeah, that too:P
but the juicy gossip keeps me motivated:D
 
Then let's answer! answer! answer! (yeah ask also works) =D
 
just answer
 
Yeah =p
 
but I haven't had the time*energy (which has a dimension of action) to do that in weeks
yet I'm here past 1 AM doing nothing:D
wait, are you up again at 5 AM or something?
oh no, that was hours ago
probably more like 7-8 AM
 
Actually it's 7 AM now, and I was up one hour earlier.
 
11:15 PM
ah:)
 
And seems that you still need 1870 rep to be a 10ker. I can get 500 rep per week (in the past), so for me I only need one mouth. :)
 
I usually got 50-80 rep per day when I could answer a lot of stuff
I prefer to answer only non-trivial questions, which makes my job hard:D
 
See, 7 * 80 == 560. So also 500 per week. And yeah, answer simple questions can get the rep easier, but not very funny =p
I also think that I should go to post some answers, my rep won't also become 20k without 20k, Tunaki would be more good than me.
 
Rob
@rene Yep - unfortunately the app is more interested in the type of close vote, not just the count
 
!!/blame Tunaki
 
11:19 PM
@KevinGuan It's Tunaki's fault.
 
Rob
Though looking back now, it seems like almost all of it can change over to the API, except for the CV types
 
@Tunaki Yay! ^
 
Rob
Unfortunately though, the popup dialog appears to be the main problem with the throttling
 

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