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12:17 AM
posted on May 27, 2013 by no-spam

It's time to plan your summer vacation. Why not attend... =image photos/recon-logo.png ReCon 2013 (Not sure if this is final logo, let me know.) *What: ReCon 2013 - A Rebol/Red DevCon *Date: July 12 to 14, 2013 *City: Montreal, Canada *Sponsors: Coginov and Respectech *Location: ??? (tell me) *Schedule: ??? (tell me) *Contact: (who? email addr or other?) *Workshops:

 
LOL, we have the first website for the conference!
 
@rebol Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ
 
@Carl .. sorry but really you can't chat here until you reach a stack overflow reputatino of at least 20!
not our rules .. but SO.
You need to answer/ask some questions on SO and we will upvote your answers
This is an antispam measure taken by SO
You'll note our friendly bot greeted you .. she's a long running process written in R3
@rebolbot bot-source for Carl
 
@GrahamChiu RebolBot Source @Carl
 
@Carl Welcome!!! Indeed, the StackOverflow rites of initiation involve two upvotes on an answer, or four upvotes on a question, or a combination therein. Perhaps you would like to put your 2 cents in as an answer in the tag quickly, so we can vote you right in straightaway!
@Carl I imagine you have something to say to one of those, at least. :-) We'll notice as soon as you post your answer... (and notice you can indeed post an additional answer to something that already has an "accepted" answer)
 
12:30 AM
Conference
This is all that has been posted

To All, We are currently investigating Hotel & other accomodations for rooms, Banquet and the conference itself.

Based on prices and availability we will start reserving spaces and places, in order to make it as cheap as possible. If the conference is not within a hotel (which is what is currently expected), we will make sure to pick and refer you to hotels which are as close as possible to subway stations to make any transporation to-from the conference as easy as possible (the subway in montreal is easy and safe to use, even at night). in a
 
@GrahamChiu Sigh...
 
@rgchris It's not as though it was a 100 year website!
 
@GrahamChiu Indeed.
 
Ok, anyone with questions for Carl?

1. heard you're open sourcing IOS .. is that happening soon? or not at all
2. How can we get to administer Rebol.net ?
 
What about the R3 chat back end?
 
12:34 AM
R3 chat back end open sourcing?
Perhaps Carl can't find a rebol question? Doesn't have to be Rebol .. any question on SO will work
 
Looks like he's not getting pings from his name mentions since we've been addressing him as @Carl, not @rebol
 
ah....
@rebol ... perhaps you could answer this question for me stackoverflow.com/questions/14555961/…
Or, perhaps it's not Carl and just someone pretending as on the blog in the past!
 
@rebol The StackOverflow reputation system is a bit slow to propagate cross-domain to the chat servers, so perhaps some more of your insights can be provided while we wait! :-)
 
yeah .. need more answers!
He has a reputation of 31 .. just need to wait now for it to propagate to here ...
 
@rebol If you wonder what the markup system is used by StackOverflow chat and Q&A, it is the same one that GitHub uses. It is called "Markdown", and it's no Rebol :-) but it's at least not abhorrent. Code is just blocks of stuff indented by four spaces.
 
12:47 AM
There's a wee help link on the bottom right which gives you the basics of the markdown.
 
Come on SO! How long does it take to update a DB?
 
4
A: Converting an issue to a string

earlIn R3, the issue! type has been changed to a word subtype (i.e. a member of the any-word! typeset): >> any-word? #12345-12345 == true So your question can be rephrased as: how to obtain the canonical spelling of any word type? The approach I'd like to suggest is to convert to a plain word! fi...

1
A: How to start the Rebol REPL in a context besides the System context?

RobertShiffletThere is a common repl console wrapper around to handle I/o redirects for StdIn StdOut. I often use rlwrap from http://utopia.knoware.nl/~hlub/rlwrap/#rlwrap It uses GNU readline lib

3
A: why disarm error doesn't give error object in rebol?

rebolAh, that's a good example of why R3 tones down the way errors get triggered. In R2, when an ERROR! values is evaluated (processed by the interpreter) it will activate the error handling mechanism. So, if you're not really careful, as you pass around the error value (like passing it to a function...

2
A: How to handle timeout periods in Rebol 3 schemes

rebolI think a port timeout should trigger based on packet timing, not the full request. So, setting a timeout of 30 seconds on email means you've not received a packet in 30 seconds. Since packets tend to be small, they arrive quickly, and not to receive one for a long period would be indication of ...

 
@Adrian I'm sure they could speed it up, they just probably don't want such a subprocess for a rare operation taxing the main site logic. They don't really think people's first interaction with SO happens in chat! We're just weird that way.
 
Well, I hope more questions are ready for Carl rather than just asking him when he can open source stuff! lol
 
Well one of my key questions is answered, which is the "will you be at the Recon". But like him, we're all waiting for the specifics. We know the days, but where exactly might be good information for hotels/etc.
 
12:51 AM
And at least he didn't use the nick @roku !
I don't think these Roku devices work in NZ anyway
@rebol sorry to ask for another open sourcing but the console in R3 is pretty lame. Is the R2 console code available?
@Adrian I was under the impression it took about 30 mins to propagate ...
 
We could ask an admin to fast track it, but I want to see @rebol's answers to some more questions :-)
 
Hmm, I don't recall how long it was when you guys got me in, but I thought it was shorter.
 
@rebol ... do you think you'll ever make time to work on R3 again? I get that Roku is exciting ... but it's a device, an end user thing. It doesn't really have the power to enable people like the Amiga did or Rebol does.
@HostileFork Which Q in particular?
 
@GrahamChiu Yes, but it pays the bills.
 
Like why 'q is shortcut for 'quit ?
@Adrian But it doesn't mean you have to get up at 5am to work on it!
 
1:01 AM
@GrahamChiu Sometimes a solvable task can be more rewarding than rolling giant rocks up hills (as per Sisyphus). I think I myself engage a little too much in "grand experiments" and hence am drawn to things like Rebol. But writing little clearly-defined things and getting them right is fun too.
 
Well, if you read that interview with Alan Kay, he said that most languages are still designed poorly
 
So I can appreciate wanting a break from it, I'm less concerned about how much time @rebol spends on the coding part and more about what it takes for us to present a unified and coherent vision... despite becoming a community effort.
 
So, there is still a place for 100 year languages
I think that's what we're missing .. the vision is gone
 
If we are to keep the name Rebol and rally around it, then we have to be thinking about SEO and perception, and what it takes to recruit talent and have a good public image.
@GrahamChiu How so?
 
there's no leadership or vision being demonstrated
 
1:05 AM
Well, you're in particular concerned about the opacity of Saphirion.
 
Not really
They can do what they like .. it's OS now
We talked about what would make a beta the other day
 
Well, we're experimenting with tools like Trello, figuring out how to figure out what everyone is working on. It's still a sorting out period. The open sourcing was not quite 6 months ago and I think a lot has happened, and we haven't had the conference yet.
 
And did we get a concensus?
I don't believe R3 and Red have to be syntax compatible for r3 to become beta.
 
I just want them LOAD-compatible.
Beyond that I don't really care.
There are obviously going to be differences after that.
@rebol Can you still not talk? If not, I will go bother someone about the reputation cache.
 
@HostileFork can we get a SO admin to fix this so Carl can chat??
 
1:10 AM
I will take not answering as a yes. :-)
 
1
A: Cannot upload file with ! in name using Rebol

rebolIf this is still a problem, it's probably the URL parsing code that's an issue. Specific characters are special, but not that many, and especially not "!". There's a newer version of Rebol called R3. Check if it's still a problem there. If so, R3 is open source and can be fixed quickly. PS: Reg...

 
it's 45 mins already
@HostileFork you gotta admit Altme doesn't have this problem!
 
in Tavern on the Meta on Meta Stack Overflow Chat, 19 secs ago, by HostileFork
Heya, we have a "celebrity guest" who joined StackOverflow...Carl Sassenrath of AmigaOS fame and language designer of Rebol. He created an account and answered a few SO questions but doesn't appear to be able to chat yet...maybe he's just not talking, but often we have a caching issue. :-/ Anyone with magic powers around who can make sure he can chat?
 
@HostileFork if you checked his answers, you can see he's bemoaning the fact that he can't chat yet
 
@GrahamChiu Technically, when I went back to AltME, it took about a day to get my account last time...
Because there was a Rebol4 world and it was new.
 
1:18 AM
I think as soon as you see the reputation updated on your user-page here on chat, you know you're good to go.
 
And it's still "1"
 
Funnily enough, the one-boxing is less cachy than the site itself :)
Right, it's still "1".
 
Well, we did talk the other day about using Rebolbot to proxy in questions
 
A bit of patience ...
 
Well it's serving the purpose as StackOverflow wants. They want to be a Q&A and career site, not a chat site. The chat is supposed to keep people involved with the main site, they have no revenue model on it.
 
1:21 AM
@HostileFork They should make the chat available as a separate thing, then.
 
Didn't one of the SO guys leave and create a new chat system?
 
@rebol Your account should have refreshed, welcome!
 
@Adrian It's open source, and maybe we should evaluate it. Our goal here was always to keep things pretty much ephemeral and shift institutional knowledge elsewhere...though it's been pretty searchable, I've found.
 
maybe he's still answering questions :)
 
1:25 AM
(~45 mins from the first upvote, btw.)
 
3
Q: is the SO chat open source?

valugiI am curious about the chat only. If not please recommend some alternatives that are comparable. Thanks.

looks like it's not
 
@Adrian I think @HostileFork meant that Discourse is intended to be open sourced.
 
@rebol .. what do you think now we need to do to make Rebol3 a beta ? 5 years of alpha is enough is it not?
 
Hmm, seems there's still some cache issue going on. Well ...
 
Ah finally! Wow, was that a heck of a test!
 
1:27 AM
You passed!
 
hehe...you passed!
 
And... now it's dinner time. Back soon. Sorry!
 
Ha, welcome Carl! :)
 
heh
 
Seems like a nice system.
 
1:28 AM
aarrrrrrgggg
 
Looks like R&R is one of the top chat groups too.
Back soon.
 
It is. W/o the 20 points barrier it would be even nicer :)
 
Maybe it's shadwolf playing a trick on us.
 
I meant discourse is open source, so we might try evaluating it. Although it looks Ruby on Railsy.
 
nah ... the questions were answered briefly and we know that is not one of shadwolf's qualities
@HostileFork Yes it is.
 
1:30 AM
@rebol Yup, we are diligent here at keeping us on the top rooms. We are also one of the earliest, in our URL that 291 is a very small number...chat rooms today have quite large numbers. :-)
 
@earl the barrier is not the 20 points, the barrier is the delay in propagation
 
We've intentionally not broken out the room into development and user discussion, because by hanging out here and chatting we catch drive-bys. There will be some crossover where we stop that, but I think it will take a watershed event of new user interest to get there.
 
The android room is #15 !
 
1
A: Type declarations on REBOL objects

rebolThis is a really good question, and something I've thought about for years. It turns out that Rebol's internal object storage mechanism can handle this, but there's no way of expressing it in source code. Why not you ask? Here's why: Rebol currently has the concept of name-value pairs. That's ho...

 
@GrahamChiu Minecraft beat us by a tiny bit, they're room #290
 
1:33 AM
Was I member #2 ?
.. if so, you can now call me No.2 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_Six_%28The_Prisoner%29
Any other burning questions people have for Carl why he is dining?
 
@rebol A R3 design question you could maybe answer at leisure: in R3, would you be fine with dropping current FUNCTION and (re-)using the name FUNCTION for what is currently FUNCT (i.e. auto-locals). (While also keeping FUNCT around for backwards-compatibility.)
 
@earl An excellent question! :-)
 
and what happens to the existing code base?
 
I think it is also important to note that a natural parity to CLOSURE and CLOS has been implemented, and BrianH submitted the patch.
 
@GrahamChiu Usage of FUNCTION seems to be exceedingly rare in practice, these days.
 
1:41 AM
@GrahamChiu As we have mentioned, R3/backward is going to have to take care of issues much harder to fix than this.
 
@rebol The second part of this is switching CLOSURE to also use FUNCT-like auto-locals semantics, while adding a FUNC-like primitive (i.e. no automatic locals) for what is currently CLOSURE.
 
FUNCTION really seemed to kind of subvert the "dialect" character; it almost showed a kind of lack of faith in dialecting itself.
I think the name is much better applied to what-was-formerly-known-as-FUNCT. And, this is something I really zeroed in on early in the idea of creating tutorials years ago.
 
(I have a bunch of other relatively detailed technical and design questions lined up as well. But for the sake of flooding too much, I'll save these for another day :)
 
"Everything is global" is a bad place to start, because sophisticates will roll their eyes. For Rebol to be marketed effectively, it must always be on the offensive. FUNC is not a pretty word, but as long as it may be omitted from tutorials...and when later introduced, done as a "more-foundational-and-primitive-than-function" service, I think it's okay.
 
Maybe we could find a way of somewhat regular (say, ~monthly) "office hours" for those kinds of questions.
 
1:54 AM
@earl He works full time so suspect we're talking pre-post dinner time as is now
 
@earl There are scheduled events...
 
I mean sthg like a somewhat regularly scheduled 30-45 minutes for discussing tech/design questions.
 
I just noticed this in the access tab of the chat config pages "Explicit write access add a user - Even when this room is read-only or their reputation is too low, these users will be able to talk in this room." chat.stackoverflow.com/rooms/info/291/rebol-and-red?tab=access
Sounds to me like we can just explicitly grant specific users access to the room
 
that sounds new
 
@johnk Good find
 
2:03 AM
A bit late for Carl :-/
 
@johnk Doesn't work. Or at least, historically didn't work for < 20 rep.
 
We tried that before, didn't work out.
 
we should start to clean up the room owners .. sunanda and brian tiffin could be removed since they don't come here
 
btiffin was here not two weeks ago ...
 
2:07 AM
Where's BrianH ? Still in the middle of a move?
@earl I mean actively participating in this room
no point in having absentee owners
 
Security weak link I guess.
We haven't had too much of a spam problem. But SO kind of does a good job on spam in general. We'll see if we can reign in Shadwolf to focus on the more useful aspects of his enthusiasm. :-)
 
@HostileFork He wants to do things that he doesn't yet have the knowledge to do .. so it's frustrating for him
There was this guy who wanted Rebol to have video abilities .. and every rebol forum he would post this request
Even when he posted anonymously you just knew who it was!
Most of us have given up on world domination
Just going back to the GUI, it seems as opaque as VID was to me. What Ashley did well was to document each function and create accessors for most things that needed doing.
I'd like to see some pages for the GUI functions with examples as well.
Maybe Github wiki ? Does that accept images in the wiki?
 
GitHub's wiki will show images...but doesn't host them. Markdown doesn't have a lot of clever display options, though. It's just kind of "here's the image".
 
Ok, so host images elsewhere ...
Does anyone have a script for interacting with their wiki ? Is there an API?
 
If you just write up the docs as Markdown and create the images, we can easily create a site from that.
 
2:19 AM
4
Q: update github project wiki through the github api

hyperboreeanIs there a way a developer can automatically upload [doxygen] documentation for his project hosted on github through their API? I didn't find anything on develop.github.com related to this. It would be nice if one could just scp the files or something.

 
@rep_test_user Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ
 
someone testing the rep propagation delays??
 
Hello @rep_test_user... are you by chance checking to see how long it takes for upvotes to go through? :-) If you're an admin, then good! The 45 minutes seems a little steep...
Sometimes it autocompletes the wrong user for you.
 
@HostileFork Are you expecting them to answer? :)
@HostileFork only if Rebolek is in the room!
 
More likely John or Adrian trying the "explicit write access" feature :)
 
2:21 AM
rep_test_user = johnk testing allow write access function
 
There's apparently a magnitude 7 earthquake in progress under our city .. called a "slow-slip" event .. going on for a year now. Except the jolt I just felt makes me wonder if it's speeding up!
 
Error message from Explicit write access function comes back as "Users must have at least 20 reputation to talk"
 
@johnk Yup, told ya.
 
@johnk but where does it check the 20 rep against?
the main site or here?
Should we upvote your test user and try it again?
 
I assume the main site
@GrahamChiu I'm not sure what extra information that would give us?
 
2:27 AM
would test if it is also subject to the same prop delay
 
Happy to test. Is it better to ask a new question or answer an existing one?
 
Ask a new question to add to our knowledgebase
 
1
Q: What confirguration files are there for Rebol R3 and how are they loaded?

rep_test_userIn Rebol 2 there was a user.r as well as the rebol.r file for adding code which would be loaded during startup. How has this changed for Rebol R3?

 
@moliad any update on the website? just a few people might be interested in registering
 
2:42 AM
will be online tomorrow night. I am right now setting up the public server.
 
Hello all. Back now.
 
hello carl (this is max from montreal)
@GrahamChiu btw, this is the last night to reserve the discount rate for the hotel.
 
Hi Max. How's it been going up there? Working on Rebol stuff, or other?
 
hotel for the Rebol devcon (recode) . bookings.ihotelier.com/Hotel-Les-Suites-Labelle/…
@rebol neat. the web site will be online tomorrow night, ready for wednesday, improving daily for the rest of the week.
 
So, there will be a conference room there? How many people are expected?
 
2:48 AM
@rebol we had a few questions for you ... at the left of the typing screen will be a digit that you can click on to see messages directed to you
 
Ok on web site. I'll link to it once it's up.
 
@moliad Will be around in patches tomorrow—drop me a line if needs be...
 
@rebol for now its hard to know how many are expected, but so far, we have around 20 confirmed people ready to register. once its online, I hope it goes up a bit. it should be similar to Paris devcon with people mainly from North America
 
Ok... and we can put links on the main Rebol sites to it. Hopefully the Red site can also.
It looks like some folks have had fun programming this chat system. Seems pretty interactive.
 
There are little nuances
 
2:54 AM
I wonder how much the barrier to entry keeps people out? I suppose anyone who really wants in can get in. (Testing edit... interesting.)
 
You can use your up arrow to edit a previous comment .. good for a short period
And you can reply to specific comments by clicking on the small arrow to the right of the comment ( not your own though )
 
@GrahamChiu Like this I guess.
 
And unique to this room, we have rebolbot who can help ...
@rebol Precisely
 
@rebol my only gripe is to get some funds to fly Nenad over. if people wish to contribute separately just for this, I'd really like if you can drop me a line via email at my gmail account, private altme chat or private chat here. If I have part of the funding, it will be easier to get the difference.
 
You can go to the post a message is in reply to by clicking the left pointing arrow at the top left of the message
 
2:55 AM
How did you get that added? (bot)
 
0
A: What configuration files are there for Rebol R3 and how are they loaded?

Graham ChiuCurrently user.r deprecated as a security risk. There is supposed to be a dialected method for this to happen .. but no one has started work on it yet. See http://chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/291?m=9149463#9149463

 
@rebol The bot is running under her own account
so, it's a user account like everyone else
 
@moliad Do I know your email addr?
 
So, like you she had to answer some questions!
 
@rebol yes definitely look into your inbox ;-)
 
2:57 AM
Are the directed messages private or public?
 
@rebolbot
print system/version
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> print system/version
2.101.0.4.2
 
Everything here is public
No private messaging
 
Oh, that's cool... the bot girl.
 
@rebolbot do print "I can evaluate rebol expressions"
 
2:58 AM
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> print "I can evaluate rebol expressions"
I can evaluate rebol expressions
 
but you can click on a user's name and jump to an impromptu chat with an obscure name
 
@GrahamChiu I thought the rooms between users where private
 
@moliad only by obscurity
 
@RebolBot
code: [print 1 +]
append code 2
print do code
print {I assist teaching people @rebol on a semi-daily basis! :-)}
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> code: [print 1 +] append code 2 print do code print {I assist teaching people @rebol on a semi-daily basis!  :-)}
3

I assist teaching people @rebol on a semi-daily basis!  :-)
 
2:59 AM
@GrahamChiu ok, not very cool then.
 

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