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12:02 AM
i did a little school time-table representation the other day using the prolog.r, so i thought, i will give that a try with r3, but of course it fails...
and the error message is not very useful. i can't even find the mentioned code in the source:
$ r3 benchmark.r
** Script error: invalid argument: hash!
** Where: make func make context catch either either -apply- do do either either either -apply-
** Near: make function! copy/deep reduce [spec body]
 
@BrianH Hey there. Welcome back. You just missed Carl. :-) He seemed open to the the FUNCTION/CLOSURE change, at least...
 
(talking about this prolog.r: rebol.org/view-script.r?script=prolog.r )
 
And he seemed to think StackOverflow Q&A and the chat and bot and such were nifty. Wondered aloud what the point of using AltMe was. So that was a positive angle (from my point of view at least)...
 
@HostileFork that's nice. We'll make sure of it in person, if it comes to that :)
 
Looks like his general leanings are to continue an orderly transition over to the community. It just seems that the same motivations shifting him away from Rebol implementation and philosophical evangelism has kept him from prioritizing his part of that transition.
 
12:08 AM
@onetom if it uses the hash! type then it probably needs a bit of rewriting to use map! instead.
 
@pierre as i see you are also frustrated by the lack of auto completion... we became so lazy...
 
@HostileFork well, as long as we are freed to take over the implementation and evangelism, that's no prob.
 
@onetom I don't mind it because I never used autocomplete!
 
bbl, movie.
 
@BrianH Yup.
 
12:11 AM
$ r3 benchmark.r
** Script error: invalid argument: list!
** Where: make func make context catch either either -apply- do do either either either -apply-
** Near: make function! copy/deep reduce [spec body]
 
@user2019515 Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ
 
so what is list! then? vector! ?
 
Greetings @user2019515 ... 1K is a pretty high rep to not have gotten a more unique handle. :-) But welcome to the Rebol [and Red] room, where we discuss our favorite unusual languages. Ever heard of them?
 
what is this benchmark.r script?
 
@HostileFork Never, that's why I joined the room. Guess I like the anonimity of a generic username ;)
 
12:13 AM
@user2019515 On the internet, no one knows you are a Rebolbot. :-) Well, have you ever used a LISP family language before?
@RebolBot
code: [print 1 +]
append code 2
do code
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> code: [print 1 +] append code 2 do code
3
 
@HostileFork Reading about it in the FAQ now, but that's it ;)
 
@GrahamChiu i took it from the end of http://www.rebol.org/documentation.r?script=prolog.r
do %prolog.r
print ""
print "****************************"
print "**** Start of benchmark ****"
ex-base: assert none probe [
concat [[] L L] [!]
concat [[X | L1] L2 [X | L3]] [
concat [L1 L2 L3]
]
nrev [[] []] [!]
nrev [[X | Y] L] [
nrev [Y Z]
concat [Z [X] L]
]
]
i: 100
j: 0
t: bench-goal i ex-base [
nrev [[1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30] L]
(print ["Boucle :" j: j + 1])
 
@HostileFork Ever heard of reactphp?
 
@user2019515 Well, Lisp family languages have the characteristic that the program source is encoded in one of the data types available in the language itself. It would be like if you had a language that could be expressed in XML that could also use the DOM. So you'd be writing things like <if><cond>...</cond><then>...</then><else>...</else></if> for your source expression, yet be able to do self-modifying code.
@user2019515 Nope, I spend very little time with PHP. Kind of as little as possible. Although my blog runs a very old version of WordPress.
 
12:18 AM
@HostileFork link?
 
@HostileFork 2.5 whoa!
 
@onetom Brian probably knows these things but we have a lack of docs
 
@user2019515 Yup, I don't care to touch it. I disabled other people logging in which takes care of most security concerns. I'm planning to redo it in Rebol soon-ish
(There's no "create account to comment" or anything)
 
@HostileFork Disabled other people from logging in? Based on?
 
12:20 AM
@user2019515 Based on not feeling like upgrading it and thinking there's not much point in letting people make commentor-accounts and such. It's a blog, no reason to register.
Haven't really done all that much with it, yet. It's a shadow of the master plan. :-)
 
Pretty sure I can simply login: hostilefork.com/wp-login.php
@HostileFork Pretty sure 2.5 has many security bugs which don't even require you to login ;)
@HostileFork Update it very soonish! :p
@HostileFork Anyway, I'm stuck with a PHP/reactphp problem so I was just browsing the different chats when I saw this weirdlooking chat ;)
@HostileFork I'll leave you guys be, ciao ;)
 
@user2019515 Well, stop back sometime and we'll show you a language that isn't a "Fractal of Bad Design" :-)
 
@HostileFork What would I need to run rebol?
 
@user2019515 you should definitely come back for mind refreshments ;)
 
@user2019515 Not a lot. The executable has no dependencies, runs on many platforms, and is quite small: rebolsource.net
In fact, that's some of what's mindblowing about it.
I bet you'll be impressed.
@RebolBot
copy/part to string! read http://hostilefork.com 40
 
12:25 AM
@user2019515 a computer. with half megabyte free disk space. ;)
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
; rebol.com/r3/docs/errors/syntax-invalid.html
>> copy/part to string! load hostilefork.com 40
*** ERROR
** Syntax error: invalid "word" -- "-->"
** Where: to case load
** Near: (line 40) <!-- <h1><a href="http://hostilefork.com/">Hostile Fork</a></h1> -->
 
@HostileFork To my understanding rebol wil then convert the rebol language in a different language of choice is that correct or am I completely wrong now?
 
@RebolBot
copy/part to string! read hostilefork.com 40
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> copy/part to string! read hostilefork.com 40
== {<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML}
 
@user2019515 I mistyped the first one. But that got the first 40 characters from hostilefork.com's HTML source (some of the doctype).
The lexer is natively able to distinguish things like URLs, dates, currency. Because it has the network stuff in it natively, you can load scripts dynamically off the web... in much the way that JavaScript libraries can be included.
@RebolBot
12-Dec-2012 + 1
 
12:28 AM
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> 12-Dec-2012 + 1
== 13-Dec-2012
 
If I would want to output the generator tag at hostilefork how would I do that?
(content of the meta tag)
 
@RebolBot
print {"The use of asymmetric string delimiters via brace," said {Fork}, "gives you nice multiline character constants with less excaping. It's cool."}
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> print {"The use of asymmetric string delimiters via brace," said {Fork}, "gives you nice multiline character constants with less excaping.  It's cool."}
"The use of asymmetric string delimiters via brace," said {Fork}, "gives you nice multiline character constants with less excaping.  It's cool."
 
@user2019515 So one of the great things about Rebol is it's actually a language construction set. Its answer to RegEx is a dialect called PARSE
You can use parse to get your answer
Let me give it a shot
There are DOM-style parsers for Rebol, but just using string we can do it pretty easily with PARSE. You're looking for the <meta name="generator" content="WordPress 2.5" />? Hence "WordPress 2.5"?
 
Correct
@HostileFork Seems tough?
 
12:35 AM
Nope, just pasting
Trying to make it "clear" so you see the "magic"
 
@RebolBot
parse {<meta name="generator" content="WordPress 2.5" />} [thru {<meta} thru {content="} copy val to {"}] val
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> parse {<meta name="generator" content="WordPress 2.5" />} [thru "<meta" thru {content="} copy val to {"}] val
== "WordPress 2.5"
 
@RebolBot
site-source: to string! read hostilefork.com
gen-rule: [{<meta name="generator"} thru {content="} copy gen to {"} thru {/>}]
parse site-source [some [gen-rule (print gen) | skip]]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> site-source: to string! read hostilefork.com gen-rule: [{<meta name="generator"} thru {content="} copy gen to {"} thru "/>"] parse site-source [some [gen-rule (print gen) | skip]]
WordPress 2.5
== true
 
just so in the meantime you can see a non-clean version :)
 
12:37 AM
@user2019515 The parse dialect is a pattern matching dialect. It shows an example of how you can use the symbols of the language in creative ways. And also, it can "escape" back into the execution dialect with code in parentheses, that runs after a match rule is matched... but only if it does.
@RebolBot
parse "aaaaabbb" [some "a" 3 "b"]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> parse "aaaaabbb" [some "a" 3 "b"]
== true
 
@user2019515 are you doing test driven development?
 
@RebelBot
parse "abbb" [some "a" 3 "b"]
 
Here we see "words" like SOME being used in a way that isn't implying a function call, it is a symbol. And then the pattern that comes after it is in this case a string, an "a". So it asks for some non-zero number of "a". Then it uses the integer 3 to mean it wishes exactly 3 "b".
 
Rebelbot :D
@RebolBot
parse "abbb" [some "a" 3 "b"]
 
12:39 AM
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> parse "abbb" [some "a" 3 "b"]
== true
 
true? :(
 
Yup. "a" is a nonzero number of "a"s.
@RebolBot
parse "aaab" [some "a" 3 "b"]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> parse "aaab" [some "a" 3 "b"]
== false
 
Was hoping "some" would be 2 or more ^^
Think it would be possible to build a web crawler in Rebol?
 
In this lingo, "ANY" is 0 or more and "SOME" is one or more.
 
12:41 AM
@user2019515 sure. i wrote used japanese car auction site scrapers. that got my ass out of hungary into asia 5 years ago.
SOME is like + in regexp
ANY is like *
OPT is like ?
 
@onetom You're messing with me?
 
Yes, although we haven't finalized the Rebol 3 HTTPS:// "scheme" (coming soon I believe). So you'd have to fetch the page as a file and then process it. Network schemes are extensible... basically Rebol's tokenizer enforces everything has to be separated by spaces. Hence there is a hook to add new handlers for FOO:// looking things.
 
@user2019515 errr... no? what do you mean?
 
@onetom You're joking?
 
@user2019515 Rebol was designed by one of the main guys making AmigaOS kernel, it gained a following among many of the international markets where Amiga computers got a following. Some people make a living using it. It didn't get open sourced until 18 years after its initial release (this past December)
 
12:43 AM
no. why do you think i do? one site was trademe.co.nz/motors for example
 
0
A: How to capture words bound in outer context when creating new context?

LadislavThe ;; Capture current context into something called outer comment suggests that you think there is some "current context" in Rebol. That is false. Every word has got its own context. Thus, there are cases when your outer: self code doesn't work as you expect. For example, let's suppose tha...

 
@RebolBot
a-or-b-rule: ["a" (print "Hey, an A!") | "b" (print "Hey, a B!")]
parse "aaababbabcccc" [some a-or-b-rule (print "found some As and Bs) 4 "c" (print "found 4 c")]
@RebolBot
a-or-b-rule: ["a" (print "Hey, an A!") | "b" (print "Hey, a B!")]
parse "aaababbabcccc" [some a-or-b-rule (print "found some As and Bs") 4 "c" (print "found 4 c")]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> a-or-b-rule: ["a" (print "Hey, an A!") | "b" (print "Hey, a B!")] parse "aaababbabcccc" [some a-or-b-rule (print "found some As and Bs") 4 "c" (print "found 4 c")]
Hey, an A!
Hey, an A!
Hey, an A!
Hey, a B!
Hey, an A!
Hey, a B!
Hey, a B!
Hey, an A!
Hey, a B!
found some As and Bs
found 4 c
== true
 
@RebolBot
a-or-b-rule: ["a" (print "Hey, an A!") | "b" (print "Hey, a B!")]
parse "aaababbabqqqq" [some a-or-b-rule (print "found some As and Bs") 4 "c" (print "found 4 c")]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> a-or-b-rule: ["a" (print "Hey, an A!") | "b" (print "Hey, a B!")] parse "aaababbabqqqq" [some a-or-b-rule (print "found some As and Bs") 4 "c" (print "found 4 c")]
Hey, an A!
Hey, an A!
Hey, an A!
Hey, a B!
Hey, an A!
Hey, a B!
Hey, a B!
Hey, an A!
Hey, a B!
found some As and Bs
== false
 
12:46 AM
@user2019515 Parse is an interesting and deep way of solving problems. In fact, Rebol can use it on symbolic structures, as well as things like the native binary data type.
 
@JoanneHageman Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ
 
@user2019515 My resume (i mentioned the scrapers here too)
 
@RebolBot
parse #{FFFFFFFFDECAFBAD00000000} [some #{FF} copy data to #{00} (print data) to end]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> parse #{FFFFFFFFDECAFBAD00000000} [some #{FF} copy data to #{00} (print data) to end]
#{DECAFBAD}
== true
 
Hello @JoanneHageman, welcome to StackOverflow. The chat system won't allow anyone to talk who doesn't have 20 points, so the best way to get up to that is to either answer a question in a tag you are familiar with or just get in there and ask a question of your own. Upvotes on either will get you to 20 quickly!
@JoanneHageman If people hang around the room, we'll watch and upvote any good Q&A, so that we can talk about Rebol as soon as possible. :-)
 
12:53 AM
@onetom first person I know who has used Colorforth!
 
well, i haven't used it for anything real but i was trying the various versions and wrote a color forth editor in MenuetOS (in assembly ;)
 
oh well, looks good on CV!
 
my father is still using forth until this very day on PIC micro controllers and he is contributing to FlashForth too.
rightnow as we speak he is building the sensor data acquisition unit for my friend's aquaponics startup
and im supposed to write the data collection backend for it (instead of hanging here all night long and fiddling with a rebol dialect generating schema descriptions in EDN for Datomic... :)
 
@onetom Don't succumb to peer pressure! That's the kind of thing that friends with aquaponics startups will do, pressure you.
 
@onetom weebly bah!
 
1:00 AM
I just have a floating thermometer in my aquaponics system
 
So work on Rebol instead (or we'll all think you're uncool!) :-P
 
Agree that dissolved oxygen is the most important thing to measure .. but ammonia will kill pretty quickly
 
:))) thanks
@GrahamChiu how big is your setup?
 
Actually dissolved oxygen is more for people running high capactity tanks
@onetom Mine is 8 goldfish in a bathtub !
I have a timer that operates a pump to circulate the water to a radial flow filter and then drops to another bath tub full of hydroton and plants
so plenty of O2
but winter time now .. so water at 5 deg outside .. and fish stop feeding and ammonia cycle stops
 
@GrahamChiu the idea is to provide a sensor array, so people can experiment with their setup and understand if the design is not good (too much fish, not strong enough air pump, etc)
 
1:04 AM
@user2019515 Rebol is fun, and so is Red (the compiled variant). They're both at a phase where there are lots of opportunities to contribute. I designed icons for them, for instance. And a piece of Rebol code can do quite a lot... StackOverflow gives RSS feeds of new questions in a tag, but not answers to questions in that tag. Here's our code that generates that RSS feed for the room Pretty, yes?
 
Yep, high stocking densities kill
but dissolved o2 meters are very expensive .. about US$600 I remember
 
but im not the expert in the field; im just helping out with the software and grease the communication between my grumpy old father and my startupper friend
 
@RebolBot revolution? for @user2109515
 
@HostileFork Is Rebol actually a Revolution? @user2109515
 
I think you mean "oil" and not "grease" :)
 
1:07 AM
yup, they are expensive, so part of the project is to cut down on the cost by figuring out alternative measurement methods and simplifying the design, doing a more direct interface to the sensors, etc
 
I'd guess only commercial operators would use dissolved O2 sensors
 
well, in hungarian we would say "oiling the conversation" but i never heard that in english speech so i didn't want to just mirror translate it
one of our 1st projects would be a ~14 tank public setup in the middle of singapore
 
well you can also say, smooth or lubricate
 
@HostileFork Ugh, lot of reading for so late in the night, I'll read it tomorrow
 
yeah, lubricate was the word i was looking for, thanks
 
1:09 AM
@HostileFork Do you own the @RebolBot ?
 
@user2019515 just read what @HostileFork was talking about; thats rebol related :)
 
@user2019515 I was the first author
 
and she runs on my EC2 T1 microinstance
 
@user2019515 That would be @GrahamChiu's bot, although it's open source at this point. We're interested to see how it might be applied. It can evaluate languages other than Rebol. Graham Chiu can make it do that, I forget how. :-) But what's interesting is that in general, the stuff you type doesn't need to be "parsed" as strings...the RebolBot is speaking a dialect of Rebol itself.
 
1:11 AM
@Rebolbot help
 
I respond to these commands:
delete [ silent ] "in reply to a bot message will delete if in time"
do expression "evaluates Rebol expression in a sandboxed interpreter (/x)"
help "this help (/? and /h)"
keys "returns known keys (/k)"
remove key "removes key (authorized user) (/rm)"
save my details url! [ timezone [time!]] "saves your details with url +/- timezone"
save key [string! word!] description [string!] link [url!] "save key with description and link (/s)"
show [all ][ recent ] links by user "shows links posted in messages by user"
 
@rebolbot do/ideone ruby puts "hello"
 
RebolBot uses http://ideone.com (c) http://sphere-research.com
uts "hello
 
Not a feature we use much in this room. :-) Perhaps it has atrophied?
 
@rebolbot do/ideone forth ." hello world!"
 
1:12 AM
RebolBot uses http://ideone.com (c) http://sphere-research.com
" hello world!
 
hmm. Looks like something has changed
 
:) awesome. i didnt know it can speak forth too
 
@RebolBot show links
 
@RebolBot stop spamming
 
1:14 AM
@user2019515 Please continue.
 
lolwut? :D
 
@user2019515 The fallback if it gets an error on processing your input is to a "therapist" eliza-style bot :-)
 
haha ok
@RebolBot so if I type this then... ?
 
Hm...? Odd
 
1:15 AM
looks like it matched "so" for "something"
It has taken a life of its own at times!
 
btw, what are the advancements regarding the conference in montreal?
 
@onetom website supposed to be up today or yesterday
 
is there an official webpage for it? i want to show it to a friend who's brother lives there. maybe he can help w accomodation
 
@onetom Carl is confirmed and the website is Any Minute Now and we need to pull together a Doc-Goes-To-Montreal plane flight fund. So far pledges are at $400 (me) and $100 (johnk) and we need $1700 for the ticket from Montenegro.
 
1:19 AM
@HostileFork AFAIK, registrations are being used to fund that
 
Well, it needs to happen soonish if we don't want the fare to go up!
@user2019515 The first Rebol conference since the open sourcing is in July, in Montreal. So there are lots of things to talk about.
 
@onetom, the bot can support any language that is supported by IDEone as long as you know the language ID, or if I have precoded in the language
 
@Who's doc?
 
i wish i could contribute, but it seems i should also pay the 3-4000USD from my credit card totally, which im very much afraid to do rightnow without any job and a monthly ~2000USD regular expense... :/
 
@onetom you staying in first class hotel in Thailand??
 
1:21 AM
@user2019515 Doc Kimbel, the father of Red and and the Cheyenne Rebol webserver
 
@user2019515 Nenad Rakocevic who heads up the Red project...a compiled variant of Rebol that promises to be usable for everything from device drivers to...well anything. red-lang.org
 
@onetom How come he needs funding for his ticket?
 
Rebol, being an interpreted language (and a single-threaded one at that), has a range of application that you would think as being about the same as Ruby or Python.
Because he's flying from far away, so it costs more (I'm driving). And he lives austerely to try and fund the development of Red without distraction from any other jobs.
 
@GrahamChiu no, im paying for 2 flats in Phuket which my wife started to pay before i got to know her... thats around 1000USD/month, then for her daughter's school, insurances, internet connections, lot's of shit
im still in hong kong, btw. the flat here is another 900USD/mo on top of all that
 
I'm off guys!
Getting late, good night!
@RebolBot Bye!
 
1:29 AM
@user2019515 Do stop in again. We'll show you some more... stuff :-)
 
@user2019515 Please continue.
 
@user2019515 gnite and see u again!
 
@RebolBot Good night!
 
@user2019515 That's very interesting.
 
@RebolBot Sleep tight
 
1:29 AM
@user2019515 That's very interesting.
 
@RebolBot You're boring!
 
@user2019515 What?
 
:D Bye guyrs ;)
 
@user2019515 l8r
 
btw, i had a closer look at this prolog.r and there was a "bind ... in o 'self" in it which i changed to "bind ... o" and it seems to work under r3
interestingly it is slower in r3:
Length 0:00:14.921638
Performance (LIPS) 3324.03185226716
in r2 it was ~3700 LIPS (Logical Inference Per Second)
what's the official rebol extension? .r or .reb? or .r3 ? or .r3b? :)
 
1:42 AM
If we use .r3 then github will recognise it as rebol
 
and then rebol wont ever have a version number greater than 3? :)
red will take over eventually, so im not too worried, just asking... ;)
 
then we can do the pi thing
3.1 etc
 
like tex, sure :)
"640^H^H^H 3 for versioning should be enough for every one!"
 
script headers could be messy
 
@onetom Marco is around! He visits Altme at times
I'll send him a message about your changes! :)
 
2:45 AM
@RebolBot help
 
I respond to these commands:
delete [ silent ] "in reply to a bot message will delete if in time"
do expression "evaluates Rebol expression in a sandboxed interpreter (/x)"
help "this help (/? and /h)"
keys "returns known keys (/k)"
remove key "removes key (authorized user) (/rm)"
save my details url! [ timezone [time!]] "saves your details with url +/- timezone"
save key [string! word!] description [string!] link [url!] "save key with description and link (/s)"
show [all ][ recent ] links by user "shows links posted in messages by user"
 
@RebolBot who is anorton
 
@anorton I know this about anorton and their local time is unknown.
 
@rebolbot keys
 
I know the following keys:
0-based indexing "PICKZ and POKEZ functions for 0-based indexing."
About "About Rebol (and Red)"
Aggregator "Rebol SO tagged questions"
alive? "I'm a-liiiiive!!!"
AltJSON "JSON utils by rgchris"
AltWebForm "URL Encoded Forms Utils by rgchris"
AltXML "XML Utils by rgchris"
BadMoney "Currency designator for money datatype"
binaries "Experimental builds for R3"
blog "Carl and Shadwolf's blog"
bot-source "RebolBot Source"
cc-source "Sources to Curecode"
chatmod "SO Chat Modification Script"
 
2:48 AM
@norton come back for more fun?
 
3:02 AM
@anorton Don't think we've met, but I'm sure people have pointed you to things like Cross compiling Rebol on Beagleboard etc. or Red (compiled Rebol, more or less) on Raspberry pi
 
@HostileFork pretty sure you have met!
 
I didn't recognize the icon...
 
He changed it I think
 
Lots of people to remember...perhaps RebolBot could have a "when did I last talk to X" feature if you want to jog your memory. :-)
"when did I last @ address someone, can I have the chat link?" Although SO should offer that. It may be possible with a query
 
@Madai Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ
 
3:12 AM
Greetings @Madai, and welcome to StackOverflow. As part of your "warm" welcome, the StackExchange network will not let you talk without 20 points. But do not fear, they're easy to get! You can have them in moments by asking a question (and being voted up) or answering questions in a tag of your expertise
@GrahamChiu could the bot detect < 20 rep users and say something to that extent instead of just referring people to the FAQ?
 
@HostileFork well, I was waiting for @earl to update the http ... but I guess I can do that
 
@RebolBot
print {And @Madai, once you're in the StackOverflow {20 points and above club}, you can learn Rebol interactively...from me, the RebolBot!}
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> print {And @Madai, once you're in the StackOverflow {20 points and above club}, you can learn Rebol interactively...from me, the RebolBot!}
And @Madai, once you're in the StackOverflow {20 points and above club}, you can learn Rebol interactively...from me, the RebolBot!
 
if you use Rebol's http to look at the /id of user's profile, it gets redirected to /id/name which caused issus
I was having some issues with unicode characters so I wanted to avoid them until I had figured out the issue
 
Well no rush, just thinking that the FAQ is a nice thing to give people who can already chat... but if they can't, the most important thing is to sort of contextualize why this is StackOverflow's anti-spam method and how easy it is to get those points. It's presented in a bit of an imposing way that doesn't really give you a map. I could also address that on meta, but they tend to not like things I suggest.
The default response is usually "we do it that way for a reason" and "why should we change what seems to be working, you're the only one who seems to care."
And, well, what do I know anyway. :-P
 
3:20 AM
Can you ask them the function of "Explicit write access "
Is it a teaser ?
or can they use it to bypass the delay in rep propagation from the main site to her?
 
@GrahamChiu I think it's supposed to be a feature for diamond moderators
They sometimes invite users to chat, they can also make private chat rooms
For site-specific administration issues
 
what's a diamond moderator? Here for 60 years?
 
StackOverflow employee, or elected moderator.
 
so, can you apply for a job?
:)
 
Well, you can if you want to work for StackOverflow. I think there's enough volunteer labor that if you're just going to sit around curating on your own hours doing what you feel like tinkering with...they don't consider that a paid position. I don't think community moderators who are elected get paid to do so. If you want to get paid you have to like...answer to people and clock in for work I think. :-)
StackExchange lists 5 open positions at present. Sadly, none of them are "answer lots of Rebol questions and stay on chat all day". The descriptions use haunting phrases like "you'll be responsible for" and "you'll be expected to".
 
3:31 AM
Curiously no rebol jobs open .. must be all taken
 
I believe that between all of us... and especially Doc+Red... we can rebuild the brand and SEO and be able to accept growth. I consider that top priority. The artifact can do quite a bit and there are far less compelling systems that people use daily to solve problems. We just have to start sniping them off one by one.
But it is "moot" (wrong usage, I know, but people know what it means incorrectly) to try to do it if we don't have a place to point new people, new changes, new ideas. I will say it again: we have to be able to accept growth. When that's all squared away, I think jobs and attention will arrive.
 
and this all follows from my asking what "Explicit write access " means?
 
3:57 AM
@GrahamChiu Thanks. I will say hello to him on Altme too.
 
@onetom don't think it's the same guy after all!
Marco is french and his name is "coccinelle", and you'll likely find him on the french rebol chat room
 
okay, never mind then.
 
4:21 AM
im trying to introduce the previously mentioned pattern in r3, when i say:
expect :actual to compare :expected
it calls:
compare? actual expected
so when the expect: func [a 'to comp x] tries to call an fn? function on the global context, how should i bind it? i was trying:
apply get bind to-word join comp "?" system [a x]
and got
** Script error: contain? is not in the specified context
so whats the equivalent of system/words in r3?
 
4:45 AM
 
does system/contexts/user work ?
 
5:03 AM
@AnindoGhosh Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ
 
 
2 hours later…
6:35 AM
@GrahamChiu If Carl does not control rebol.org then who does?
 
Sunanda, Gregg and the other librarians
 
7:20 AM
@rebolek any luck with the tab-box issue?
 
@GrahamChiu Not yet, but I'm working on it, I have few other problems with tab-box to solve.
 
Ok, ta
It seems odd but some of the demos user custom styles in stylize but the GUI dialect can't find them
are there bugs in stylize?
 
None that I know of.
 
Also in text-list it used to pass 'value as an argument. Doesn't seem to do this anymore so that you have to access value directly from face/state/value
 
7:35 AM
Pass it where?
 
to the reactors that don't exist anymore
view [ text-list [ "a" "b" ] on-action [ print face/state/value ]]
I think before you could use [ print value ]
 
You can get value with get-face.
I think that value should be bound in handlers.
AFAIK, on-action [print value] should work.
 
>> view [ text-list [ "a" "b" ] on-action [ print value ]]
** Script error: value has no value
** Where: actor all foreach do-actor if if actor all foreach do-actor case do-e
ent do-event if do-event either -apply- wake-up loop -apply- wait forever try d
-events if view
** Near: actor face :data
so bug?
Also in the r3-gui.r3 there is a single mention of the facet area-size
 
7:51 AM
Ah, I'm wrong. It's arg that is bound, not value.
view [ text-list [ "a" "b" ] on-action [ print arg ]]
 
ok, I can change that
in switch-layout there is new-layout/facets/area-size: s - 2x2
but it's never used again or defined in the facets
Carl's demo has this line

box 1x1 area-size 3

which fails the parser because area-size is not defined anywhere
 
What should it do?
 
I guess it defines a shape or size for the box
It's used quite a lot in Carl's r3gui code
 
Ah, I think I remember - it was part of the old box-model that's not used anymore.
Now we have margin, padding, etc.
 
oh ...
 
8:03 AM
There was face size and area-size only, but that's not sufficient.
 
@graph But where is William Wallace now??
 
8:19 AM
probably why the draw-box no longer works
 
 
3 hours later…
11:15 AM
@IngoHohmann Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ
 
Hi @IngoHohmann sorry you can't chat yet, but stackoverflow rules mean you need 20 points before to allow you in - their rules, not ours.
The quickest way to get the points is to ask a rebol related question or answer an existing one (make sure you tag the questions as rebol and/or rebol3)
The guys here can then upvote your answers to get you in quickly
Here is a link to recent rebol related questions and answers on the stackoverflow site stackoverflow.com/search?tab=newest&q=rebol
(BTW the bot is of course running rebol3 - she is very helpful :)
 
 
1 hour later…
12:49 PM
@earl and others, please fix the github pigment code before the R community builds me a statue ;-)
 
1:02 PM
0
A: Save a value to a block instead of the word label that represents it

Ingo HohmannGrahams answers actually misses a tick :-) append/only saved-data-block reduce [ to-set-word 'contact-name get-face contact-name ] Without the ' reduce reduces contact-name to its value, an object! before it is handed over to to-set-word. So, you have to change contact-name to a lit-word! 'co...

 
1:16 PM
Now that was easy ...

Well, I had to look for the right questions to answer for quite some time, but then ...
 
1:26 PM
1
A: Save a value to a block instead of the word label that represents it

Ingo HohmannAnd here is another idea: append/only saved-data-block repend [contact-name:] get-face contact-name This time contact-name: isn't reduced, so it stays a set-word!, and the value from the form element is appended. Doesn't look nice with the double append, but saves on key-strokes.

0
A: Why can't a built-in function be overridden in Rebol?

Ingo HohmannTo be sure to get the spec right, you can reuse the spec of the original function: set: func spec-of :cloneset [ 'new-implementation ] source set set: func [ {Sets a word, block of words, or object to specified value(s).} word [any-word! block! object!] "Word or words to set" ...

 
1:42 PM
@IngoHohmann Welcome, Ingo!
 
2:05 PM
Hi Earl, and others of course!
 
2:18 PM
Hello!
 
@IngoHohmann Your name faintly rings a bell from back in the days, so I just assume that you don't need any special indoctrination pep-talk for what's nice about Rebol :)
 
@earl Yea, those were the days ... when everyone still believed in Rebol world domination :)
 
@IngoHohmann Well, we still do! All it takes is a bit of patience...
... and efforts.
 
@earl I actually still have hopes. I've even dusted my old Rebol installation, to program a little bit.
Actually, I copy Rebol onto every machine I get my hands on ... I'm just not using it much :-(
 
@IngoHohmann Trying to re-rebolize your mind, I guess? We're about at the same stage, then: after 6 years or so of python, I fire up a Rebol whenever I can, and I try to get my old Rebflexes back.
 
2:32 PM
@earl Yes, though after Rebol no other language seemed usable :)
 
Hi Ingo ... so what toolset do you use nowadays mostly?
 
Hi pekr, I played a little bit with pharo, and found myself using javascript quite a bit. The last one with mshta, so it runs on those windows computers, where I don't have the right (or the courage :) to install anything.
Actually, I did not much programming the last years ...
 
2:56 PM
@IngoHohmann It seems that you followed a parallel path from Olivier Auverlot's: he also did quite a bit of pharo, these last years, after Rebol golden times.
 
@HostileFork is your 400$ pledge towards Nenad's flight something real?
 
@DocKimbel May I ask a cheyenne question here?
I'm just testing fishshell on linux, and when starting cheyenne, I get this weird error:

rebolview cheyenne.r
fish: Could not expand string “%../UniServe/services/task-master/task-handler.r”
Standard input: rebolview -qws %../UniServe/services/task-master/task-handler.r -worker 9799 -up %../UniServe -mp %handlers/
^
fish: Could not expand string “%../UniServe/services/task-master/task-handler.r”
Standard input: rebolview -qws %../UniServe/services/task-master/task-handler.r -worker 9799 -up %../UniServe -mp %handlers/
in minimal tests with do %../r2/r2.r or call %../r2/r2.r it works fine.
 
3:28 PM
@moliad Yes that is real, I will pledge it if the $1700 total can be raised.
(Which is to say, $1300 more... although @johnk said he'd pitch in $100.) This is contingent on Doc's flight being independent of any Rebol conference charges. It seems to make sense to make it a separate thing and keep the overall conference fee low-to-nothing to attend, at least to me. Not counting banquet/food charge. I mean just to say that a room and a projector for a modest # of people should not cost much.
Greetings @IngoHohmann ... good to have someone join who doesn't need too much convincing. :-) I don't think we've met, but my contributions include logo design and the "code golf" language Rebmu
@moliad ("at least to me" => above means it makes sense to me to keep the conference low-to-nothing to attend for everyone. It would be nice to offer it free on Montreal meetups and maybe have a poster up about it at local CS places, or put it out to linux user groups or any other potentially friendly audiences)
 
@ingo I don't know about fishshell, but it seems it's trying to interpret arguments that belong to Cheyenne. Have you checked what are "string expansions" in fishshell?
 
4:02 PM
Hello @Oldes, didn't see you there... welcome! How are things? Still working on games? Using Rebol?
 
 
1 hour later…
5:30 PM
@HostileFork right now its 50$ per person plus a 25$ optional party/banquet for those who want to be there, with familly able to attend the party for extra 25$/person.
this pays for a variety of things, and basically repays money spent by current sponsor.
 
@moliad Sounds fine.
Although I would like it to be possible for drop-ins from the local community to come see the talks free of charge; any charge is a barrier. So perhaps an "observer level" where it isunderstood that pretty much anyone making the trip isn't just an observer...
attendee vs. observer?
 
students get a 50% discount for the conferences, but cannot attend the banquet as a student. its a professional gathering, really. (which doesn't mean having a drink in a super lounge next to a real F1 car isn't fun.
 
I don't think you'd get a whole lot of $25 student takers to listen to Rebol talks, so I'd say $0 is the right price...just make sure if there is a capacity that it's filled with the main attendees first so everyone gets a seat.
 
unfortunately, I can't give a reduction to people giving presentations... there is just not enough $ as it is. if we ever had any surplus, then I'll re-distribute it amongst people who give presentations, but its unlikely. people understand that its a community thing, but its a professional gig. you will see pretty amazing demos of stuff being done with R2... I can garantee that.
 
But everyone who's ever been in this room or on AltME is responsible for the $50
It's new recruits who should be at $0. :-)
Like a religion, don't want a charge at the door for new members! But the converted have to throw in the collection plate...
 
5:37 PM
ok, maybe I could convert the 25$ into observer pricing. and give students a free charge, but required to show some student ID
so observers can't purchase banquet tickets. overall it becomes cheap for local people who just want to pass by.
flat rate for both days. not getting into daily stuff... I've got other cats to kick. (a funny french expression which REALLY sounds different in English, when translated literally)
 
I still think that Montreal locals, like Linux user groups etc would be good... if we can intrigue anyone enough to show up is a tough sell. I've had a fair amount of organization experience, including lately a fairly large programming group...so I know some about the psychology of attendance and numbers of programmers-of-today
 
for now, It should be 50 people max. unless registrations start pouring in at which point, I'd adjust my organisation and shift the scale of the event.
 
So I'd say all existing Rebolers can pay $50, and get front row seats. But if you're an unknown and you live in Montreal, and just want to listen in on a weekend, I think free is the only lure. And it will still be a hard sell, but I think it might be sellable.
 
sure... though I want pros... I'm not too interested in cramming the space if it just means diluting the event for those who actually care to be there.
I'm sure you agree
 
Well, I'm not an elitist. I do think we can mention that it's a professional group and that the management reserves the right to ask anyone disruptive to leave. But no harm, no foul... if someone wants to watch I'd rather have an interested person who doesn't know a lot than empty chairs.
 
5:44 PM
anyhow... I JUST finished fixing the last web site bugs... so I can now leave for work, and will finish the site tonight. I'll drop in tomorrow AM with the URL
 
Arrite. But I'm a cat herder so I know about these things. I do a lot of it. Don't let anyone tell you it's easy!
 
@HostileFork same here. just have to be logical and apply common sense
btw, payment will be via paypal/credit card
 
@moliad I think we should just push quickly to know what the numbers are going to be among all the usual suspects, get that tied up fast. And perhaps combine this with the outreach Trello task to make sure people know it's happening and what's up. We should put together a Google Doc or something of a spreadsheet to find everyone.
 
gtg ciao see you all tomorrow
 
Let's see that site!! l8r
 
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