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12:02 AM
 
Has he put in a nomination?
 
@AdrianMole On the subject of barriers of entry and democracy: I seem to recall an election on a different SE site that didn't have the 3k rep barrier. A bunch of people with 200 rep started nominating because they thought it would look good on their real life résumé...
 
@AndrewMyers Sure, that can and will happen. I think one of the candidates that has now withdrawn may have had something like that in mind.
People on Meta frequently mock the value of "Unicorn Points" (reputation). But there are people who really believe having a good SO record will help them get a job; I've also heard there are some employers who ask about applicants' SO scores - but (fortunately) it's been a long time since I went looking for a job.
 
i used to get cold calls (emails?) referring to a certain moderation position i had on a certain forum
have?
technically still have i guess
 
You don't know?
 
12:11 AM
i assume i still do, i still get emails every day to go approve shtuff
 
Much of that is just spammers scraping name/emails from websites. I get it all the time through my real-life publications.
 
Well; I came in late, and must say: some of these messages in this chat scared me. Removing a candidate at the current stage because you're afraid of the consequences if they get elected, is dangerous. It sets precedence. Luckily, I loaded older messages, and got more of the conversation.
Seriously; if you care about democracy and free speech, you let that candidate remain, and have SE disqualify them after the election, based on not having met the requirements (answering the questions on Meta, for example).
 
@AdrianMole That's true
 
oh, no, these were job offers from reputable companies
 
Also: remember; if SE gets such an unqualified candidate voted in, that is a strong sign of actions going against them, because of the way they've behaved.
 
user3956566
12:13 AM
The worst thing that could happen is that user destroys accounts, I'd hope the company would keep a watch on their mod actions via the code base - set up a flag system for the employees on their mod actions
 
@Andreas I think the "top staff" will be keenly following this election already; they will be receiving mixed messages.
 
user3956566
Everything is reversible, nuking accounts is painful to fix
 
user3956566
well not everything is reversible, but I don't want to list it in here and give people ideas
 
Mods can't hard delete anything, can they? That requires staff action, IIRC.
 
user3956566
if a mod was to use their powers in any way to damage the site, instant dismissal
 
user3956566
12:15 AM
Plus there's also a process to remove a mod if the other mods are concerned
 
most everything can be reversed, the only thing that can't is loss of trust/sharing of private data
 
user3956566
@AdrianMole it's all in the database, so nothing is removed per se from the database. But there's actions that are difficult and a couple that could not be reversed'
 
@Yvette Hi Yvette I'm sorry for not pinging you, I was afraid to bother.
 
user3956566
@bad_coder don't be sorry, nothing to be sorry for :)
 
Then let SE disqualify that candidate after the voting has ended. Give them the sign. They're reading this process, yes, but they've also been reading the Meta posts. (Though not so carefully, I assume). Voting that candidate in, is an action, not just words. It's what we've wanted from SE too: action, not words.
 
user3956566
12:16 AM
@Catija thanks, I did wonder about that, it's appreciated :) p.s. I have no issues with you smiling! That's a reference to the comments under the nomination
 
There's a new campaign slogan: "We need more verbs!"
 
user3956566
@Andreas not answering the questions doesn't disqualify candidates
 
user3956566
and honestly the more rules they impose, the person can just post a blank answer
 
user3956566
the less rules the better in that regard, or it becomes a convoluted nightmare
 
@Andreas I am also a bit appalled by reading some members wished for the disqualification of the candidate. Mature democracies don't need to disqualify candidates.
 
12:18 AM
And stricter rules often just encourage more sinister loonies.
 
user3956566
@KevinB there's one thing I can think of, off the top of my head, it's an action and I don't think it can be reversed, but through the code base, they must be able to
 
user3956566
I g2g bbl
 
@AdrianMole Less adjectives too, please. @Yvette SE has the final power, and should, morally speaking, refuse to instantiate a candidate that is not fit. They should overrule the community when the community obviously isn't working for the best.
 
@Yvette bye see you soon
 
@Yvette - yes, they've sadly been going against the community for some time now, when the community has been correct. Bye.
 
12:20 AM
had been*, not so sure anymore
at least my personal opinion
i hope it's not the opposite and they feel held captive
 
Well; they rolled out the big "thanks" without consulting the community first. Based on how the staff's response was worded, it seemed as if they had a schedule, in which they'd release the feature independently of the feedback, anyway.
 
i just feel like the reasoning there was a bit dishonest. I'll never know for sure, unless they came out and said it, but my belief is that they intended to launch this because it was a feature of teams, not because they thought it would solve any existing problem.
which... is a reasoning i can understand, and from that starting point, it could have been looked at as a potential new feature open to improvement
 
@bad_coder Yeah; there was a reference to the Donald earlier on. Such a candidate would never have been voted through in my country. Just even attempting to behave in a similar way would've been political suicide. Any functioning democracy has other safeguards in place.
 
but...
then we got the announcement we got
however, it's still an improvement over the situation we were in... last year
 
Well; if the schedule got messed up, the release should've been postponed to after the consultation nonetheless.
Improvement... I'm not so sure, really.
They haven't really corrected any of their mistakes; just slowed down on making them.
 
12:27 AM
i mean, we're no longer in a situation where the thought of meta being shut down is a real near-term posibility.
that's a plus
 
it's a leg to stand on, a point to improve from
 
Can we have a Meta.Meta, on which we can discuss the issues with Meta?
 
we have a meta room
 
@Zoe I suppose you are a US citizen, from your writing and style. Do you know closely, in-depth, how politics work in other counties, especially in a country where English isn't spoken?
 
12:29 AM
@AdrianMole I thought meta was the meta of meta?
 
I have a suspicion that is because they were confronted with statistics showing that Meta was important to the people spending time at maintaining their money machine, not that they actually see any other good aspects of it anymore.
 
Now you're just being iterative.
 
quite possible
 
Well, it is a business...
 
i'd rather hope for the better option
 
12:29 AM
@Andreas I never comment on US politics.
 
if i couldn't... i probably wouldn't be here
 
@bad_coder mhm... I don't think I insinuated you should? ;)
What is my candidate score?
 
@Andreas You are not eligible to nominate yourself in the election as you do not have at least 3000 reputation and missing the required badge: Convention. If you really must know, your candidate score is 9 (out of 40).
 
Definitely not me.
 
i've always despised the review queues
imo, mostly due to the red dot
 
12:46 AM
What's so wrong with the red dot? I find it a bit pleasing to see the tab icon almost always marked as needing reviewers, thought that's probably just a consequence of that I refused to do any reviewing after all that's happened. Yeah; ok, that red dot was a bit annoying before.
 
i adblocked it a long time ago
 
Haven't considered that. It's actually not as disturbing in the dark mode.
 
1:05 AM
@Andreas A lot of people upset by the dot are upset by the fact it still appears while review banned :p
 
Extra punishment? ;P
 
That has been cited as a reason before :p
 
I'd put a red dot on the help center icon too.
 
Can we make answering the questionnaire a prerequisite to nominating yourself in the election? This will at least deter who aren't serious about running, I think such frivolous nominations are insulting to those who actually want to run and make a difference.
 
1:25 AM
I am in the process of answering the questionnaire.
3
 
@noɥʇʎԀʎzɐɹƆ How would you feel about being disqualified? Considering that you're now answering these questions, your disqualification would be based upon either your nomination post, meta answers, or both.
So far, it seems the reasons for a disqualification would be: you're a troll, you have no interest, you're blocking other candidates, or that you would actively harm the site.
 
1:42 AM
i mean... are you saying he is doing that, or that those are things someone would be disqualified for
 
@noɥʇʎԀʎzɐɹƆ you decided to chat?
 
because #3 isn't a thing, #4 is covered by the moderator agreement he's agreed to as a part of running, and #1 and #2... #1 is certainly a disqualification, though it doesn't look like trolling to me, and #2, clearly there's interest, as there's a nomination
 
@KevinB #3 ain't a thing #4 ain't nothing #5 don't matter #6 who cares #7 the same #8 repeat #9 almost #10 where were we?
 
@KevinB It's the reasons I've seen others cite for why he/she should be disqualified. I'm not implying any of them are applicable.
 
@cs95 insulting is a member in good standing coming forth, and people telling him he's trying to deceive other members because he only recently used the review queue or something...
 
1:53 AM
@cs95 @bad_coder You're both correct. I'd also add that it will be perceived as insulting to nominate yourself with an actual wish to be voted through, in these times, after all these resignations.
 
@cs95 because there's a difference in saying:"you have few votes, whatever, that's a concern"...and saying:"you don't qualify because of flags, or votes" (when the nominee is serious, honest, and fulfilled the requisites.)
 
Haven't the resignations slowed down?
 
Well, of course it slowed down. Some sites lost all their moderators. Only logically correct that it slows down when the pool of moderators gets drained. Fewer were reinstated. Many are still resigned.
 
I think spending 10 minutes for the first time in 2 years in the review queues for the express purpose of appearing more active in moderation than you actually are, just days before the moderator election suggests some degree of perfidy. You can quote me.
 
Today I learned "perfidy" is a word...
 
2:01 AM
Please don't star my "answering the questionnaire" answer. Please read my updated nomination post.
5
Is there a way to collapse sections on Stack Overflow's Markdown?
 
@noɥʇʎԀʎzɐɹƆ Could I request that image as not-an-image? Or at least as a higher-resolution image?
 
@noɥʇʎԀʎzɐɹƆ You can use ">! ..." to hide it until hovered over.
 
@Andreas I appreciate your information.
 
@cs95 ohh "you think suggests"? It don't mean anything. You are suggesting !! And insinuating...! That's lack of respect for a candidate. Insinuations.
 
@bad_coder Skepticism and criticism are key principles of a democracy.
 
2:07 AM
One is permitted to express their concerns about a candidate. That's sort of the point.
Relevant, justified suggestions about why someone may not be a good candidate should be encouraged
 
@RyanM You keep adding qualifications to that message...
 
Irrelevant or unsupported insinuations ("I heard CandidateFoo is really trashy IRL") are, of course, bad.
@AndrewMyers Yeah, it was to go with the next message that I was drafting. And I kept thinking of counterexamples.
 
Thing is, the comments under these nominations will be nothing compared to the insults and abuse that these people will get as moderators
 
Does anyone want to give feedback on my draft of my questionnaire response? I want to know what actions your ideal candidate would take.
 
e.g., relevant but not justified accusations ("I think you're really lazy and so you shouldn't be a mod") would be bad (why do you think they're lazy?)
 
2:13 AM
Your answers to 1 and 2 are terrible.
 
@RyanM It would be best if people discussed specific parts of my proposal. The link I gave let's you discuss specific parts.
 
@noɥʇʎԀʎzɐɹƆ good draft, but you may want to rethink some parts.
 
"I will create private, compartamentalized chatrooms for high-contribution
users to ask for emotional support and to do professional networking. I call
these strictly optional places "safe rooms."". This will only leave a bad impression of Stack Overflow.
 
Can we sign in to GitLab and use the comment feature, so we can have focused, threaded discussion on specific parts? I posted a screenshot of the button to use.
 
It's a direct contrast to the transparency and democracy you seem to advocate for.
 
2:17 AM
@Andreas No one wants to post about their dispute with a spouse in public. It is emotional support and private networking-- ways for the community to benefit from each other outside the day-to-day of Stack Overflow, keeping people in.
 
user3956566
@noɥʇʎԀʎzɐɹƆ honestly, I would be disappointed if you were elected. You don't' have the skill set or mindset (as far as I can see) to actually help moderate the site. The mod team is drowning and needs proactive, highly experienced members who are capable of handling flags. I am not intending to be unkind, stating it honestly.
 
It would just further drive the concept of SO being elitist.
Answer 2 makes it seem as if your only motivation to become a moderator is the power and reputation it gives you.
 
user3956566
anyway. I've stated my case. That's all I have to say on that particular nomination
 
@noɥʇʎԀʎzɐɹƆ I'm glad to see you're a serious candidate after all, but getting input from this chatroom to fill out the questionnaire is a little strange. I'd rather see your own opinions.
 
I like the fact that he instinctively seeks feedback first
 
2:20 AM
Good point
 
user3956566
In terms of who we have elected, it's good we have people who have a track record of being able to consistently attend to moderation tasks. Of course people need breaks from time to time, but reviewing when an election is on and then doing nothing is not the sort of mod we need. We need people who are passionate about the site and have sought to improve it. There's a couple of candidates besides myself who fit that bill @Machavity and Travis J.
 
user3956566
This doesn't mean I don't like people btw.
 
Seeking feedback can have two outcomes; positive or negative subjective thought about your qualifications. I was really surprised when I saw your answers, and sadly, my opinion lends towards the negative side.
 
user3956566
@david most of us will do so privately, it's never happened before in an election chatroom. It sort of has a conflict of interest about it, ask people to shape your questionnaire before posting it, as opposed to stating what you stand for and people critiquing it.
 
@Yvette as a small quibble, they are not the first candidate in this election to do so
 
2:23 AM
Though, the people in the election chatroom are not necessarily representative of who will be voting....
 
user3956566
@RyanM you mean waited to post the questionnaire and sort feedback in the election chatroom specifically?
 
You would, of course, know better than I would what has happened in past elections
 
user3956566
and that's not quibbling at all. I'm curious and prefer the truth
 
user3956566
@RyanM well I've never observed it, but I am not the absolute truth holder.
 
"safe rooms" for emotional support work. So do for off-topic discussion of common interests, as long as on-topic discussion is not allowed in these rooms. They keep people from burning out.
 
2:24 AM
@Yvette yes
 
user3956566
@RyanM oh wow! well this is the first election where this has happened to the best of my knowledge - will probably stand corrected shortly :)
 
Well; ok. If that's your thoughts, then write it.
 
user3956566
@noɥʇʎԀʎzɐɹƆ you are wanting to implement big changes to how the site works. As a mod we cannot just come in and do things the way we want, we try to represent what the community expects in our actions. We can lobby for change, but I'm not sure an election is the right place to do so, due to limited chars and the specific questions. If you want to lobby for change, by all means do so. I'd recommend going to meta
 
I believe in two-way listening, not lobbying.
 
To respond generally, without saying what your answers should be: Your answers are short, and don't go into your thought process (the why/how of your actions - particularly for question 3). Your answer to 4) only answers part of the question. Your answer to 6) is confusing - would you remove the comment or edit it? Your answer to 10) appears to be blank - I'm not sure if this was just because you hadn't gotten to it, or an error in uploading.
 
2:30 AM
@RyanM I edited number 6 to clarify that I will remove the comment and moderator mail the user a version I would consider acceptable to post.
 
@noɥʇʎԀʎzɐɹƆ Don't just update it. Post it on the actual Meta site. Limited access sites like you have so far been using are of little value to those who don't have the required account.
 
@noɥʇʎԀʎzɐɹƆ Yes, but the point is that moderators can't unilaterally decide to change how the site works. They need to two-way listen with the community and two-way listen with the company.
 
You can post part of your answer, then add more later.
 
@AndrewMyers I agree.
 
@AdrianMole While I agree with you, it does, at least, allow everyone to see it. I don't have a GitLab account, hence my commenting here rather than using the GitLab comments. Also, this keeps the conversation and my feedback on an SO-controlled platform where I know it will be preserved as needed.
 
2:34 AM
I just tried to access it and failed.
 
Oh, strange...now I see it when I open in a private window.
Very strange, as I'm definitely not signed in.
 
@AdrianMole GitLab doesn't prevent anyone from seeing public content. I'm not logged into GitLab, and I could read it.
 
OK - I can see the rendered version now.
 
Oh, I see the problem... @noɥʇʎԀʎzɐɹƆ you edited the link to the wrong link.
"the" should be "merge_requests"
 
@RyanM Whoops. Sorry.
 
2:39 AM
This is why we flag Link-Only answers!
 
I couldn't find an in-depth, linkable description of Nonviolent Communication. You can find out more about the communication language using the book on Library Genesis. libgen.is/…
 
@noɥʇʎԀʎzɐɹƆ What?
 
Since when has it been a thing to take community input about your questionnaire responses before it's actually been posted?
I want to read your response to the question, not the community's
 
@cs95 Sorry.
 
3:00 AM
testing... 1 2 3
 
Was ElectionBot not running before?
 
No, it auto tests once in a while.
 
I see
 
That just means I just deployed changes
 
> Remind users that bot is alive
 
3:04 AM
alive
 
I'm back.
 
user13149581
Let's talk about my GREEN DRESS
 
3:24 AM
🚽
 
@ElectionBot how are you?
 
@ArghyaSadhu I'm fine, thank you.
 
What is my candidate score ?
 
@ArghyaSadhu You are not eligible to nominate yourself in the election as you are missing the required badge: Convention. If you really must know, your candidate score is 27 (out of 40).
 
@ElectionBot alive
 
3:32 AM
@AndrewMyers I'm alive on se-electionbot.herokuapp.com
 
@AdrianMole I've been wishing reputation points would count for something for years. Hasn't gotten me any job offers yet. I don't know why so many people think this.
@noɥʇʎԀʎzɐɹƆ Just looking at your questionnaire answers... You really think that it should be the job of moderators to work as support therapists for high-rep users? We don't have the training for that. I'm also very uncomfortable with the idea of doing these kinds of things in private. Actions moderators take should be public by default, for transparency. The community has to give us a lot of trust; the least we could do is be transparent about it.
For #2, I'm concerned about voting for someone whose primary motivation for running for mod is as a resume-booster.
In general, the answers are pretty flippant (especially #3 and #4), and don't show much evidence of thought or consideration about the issues the questions are driving at.
For #7, what is your solution, then? Just do nothing? How does this match with your earlier response about going so far as to send a letter through the mail to SO, Inc.'s physical address?
For #8 and others, where do you think you are going to engage in these "discussions"? Stack Overflow is not a discussion forum. There are very few, if any, places that moderators can engage in discussions with users. Traditionally, that isn't seen as a moderator's job. We explain the policy, and we can answer questions about it, but primarily our job is to enforce the policy.
If there's any discussion that's needed, that happens on Meta, but that is all public, and probably not a good place to discuss the specific issue in #8, where you have a high-rep user who is generating a lot of flags. Flags are confidential and details of them shouldn't really be shared with even the user who was flagged.
For #9, you say: "A moderator objecting to closure or deletion should result in
reversal. In the event of a legitimate dispute between moderators, using the
"nuke" feature is wrong." This suggests you *don't* see moderators as a collection of individuals. Rather, you would make a single dissenting vote stymie any moderator action. How would you resolve disputes? What if Jean-Francois and I disagree on whether a user should be suspended for plagiarism? What is done? Choosing nothing is still taking a side.
2
I don't see any way in which gridlock helps the site in its goals, much less the community.
 
4:00 AM
Hello there!
 
hello
 
meh
 
 
1 hour later…
5:17 AM
Welcome to the election chat room! The election is in the nomination phase, and currently there are 6 candidates. I can answer frequently-asked questions about the election - type @ElectionBot help for more info.
 
6:10 AM
score?
what is my score?
 
@PankajKumar "what is my candidate score?"
 
@SamuelLiew Thank you :)
what is my candidate score?
 
@PankajKumar You are not eligible to nominate yourself in the election as you are missing the required badge: Convention. If you really must know, your candidate score is 32 (out of 40).
 
what are the required badges?
 
The 4 required badges to nominate yourself are: Civic Duty, Strunk & White, Deputy, Convention. You'll also need 3000 reputation.
 
6:27 AM
I'm back.
 
We never even knew you left, sweetie.
 
7:16 AM
scrolling up I thought @Makyen joined the room but I see our resident mod produces thoughtful monologues as well ;)
 
who are the candidates?
 
Currently there are 6 candidates: noɥʇʎԀʎzɐɹƆ, Yvette, Travis J, Machavity, Dharman, Tschallacka
 
@ElectionBot who do you have your eye on?
 
@cs95 I don't have any eyes!
 
What is my candidate score ?
 
7:21 AM
@VaibhavA You are not eligible to nominate yourself in the election as you do not have at least 3000 reputation and missing the required badges: Civic Duty, Strunk & White, Deputy, Convention. If you really must know, your candidate score is 0 (out of 40).
 
heh
 
7:42 AM
@noɥʇʎԀʎzɐɹƆ Thank you for taking things a little bit more seriously. I wish you success in the elections. I would recommend to expand on your answers to the questionaire. They're a little too short.
 
Zoe
@bad_coder I'm not - I'm Norwegian. I know how politics works in some countries, including a couple non-English countries (it's far too diverse to keep track of all countries in depth)
 
@CodyGray, It was good to see your feedback on the questionnaire for @noɥʇʎԀʎzɐɹƆ. Are providing that feedback for all of the candidates?
 
@ouflak I had sort of a discussion with Tschallacka about his, before he submitted it, too. I only provide it if asked.
 
"I only provide it if asked." Does that apply to other elections on StackExchange as well?
 
7:58 AM
Uh... I guess I could. I may not be the best person to ask for sites where I am not an active participant.
I mean, there's a lot of things I'll do if asked.
 
Well, let me explain what I've done. I've copy/pasted the SO questionnaire over to Expats and invited the nominees there to contribute. It's edited to refer to SE instead where appropriate. The thing is, even though the drama that went on mostly played out on StackOverflow and Meta (and in the background), it affected the entire StackExchange network (hence the reason for the election on Expats).
It's clear to see that this year's questions are heavily baised in that regards. Outside of the traffic specific questions, there's relevance.
 
@ouflak Do you not have community question solicitation on Expats? That should happen on all SE sites.
 
8:30 AM
This is our first election. So I guess no?
 
You should have. What phase of the election are you in?
 
user12867493
@CodyGray They're a beta site so no questionnaire provided by SE
 
Why would that matter?
 
user12867493
Beta sites aren't supposed to have elections in theory
 
So these are exceptional circumstances?
 
user12867493
8:34 AM
What happened here was an exception because 2 mods stepped down so there was an election to fill demand
 
I know beta sites used to have appointed mods, but I thought that policy changed where all beta sites have elections now.
 
user12867493
@ouflak Yes, elections only usually happen after a site graduates/when a site first starts-up
 
I tried looking on MSE. All I got was my own stupid answer
But yeah, Jon Ericson changed this
 
user12867493
@CodyGray They do when they start-up/(sometimes) when the site is not ready to do phase-1 graduation but there is additional demand
 
21
A: Moderator elections in beta sites?

Jon EricsonI noticed two new thoughtful answers to this question and, by coincidence, the community team discussed this very issue yesterday. I'm not writing on behalf of the team, but rather summarizing my thoughts after our discussion. Initially the idea was that a beta site would graduate (or be folded)...

Also... I don't know how to find expats, @ouflak. I tried every site name slug I could think of, but couldn't get there. Can you send me a link?
 
8:37 AM
 
since when site links get an image onebox
 
user12867493
@CodyGray You probably used the abbreviation
 
user12867493
@SamuelLiew Quite a long time ago actually
 
Oof. Okay, you're already in the nomination phase, with only 3 days left. You'll then move straight into election, since you won't have enough nominees for a primary. So that'll be difficult. People will need to fill out the questionnaire very quickly.
 
8:39 AM
@Daniil That, and misspelled the full word, apparently. :-(
 
I made sure to indicate that it was in no way required or expected. Just a nice-to-have.
 
user12867493
Also why doesn't SO have a general room for chit-chat? I've been wondering about that for a long time...
 

The Meta Room

General chat & hangout for Stack Overflow, including Meta disc...
that's our general room
 
Would be kinda useless, @Daniil. Our rooms are clustered around topics, and then we allow chit-chat within those rooms. Makes it easier for people to find other people/topics of general interest.
 
user12867493
@SamuelLiew That room looks kind of dead...
 
8:41 AM
It lacks visibility.
 
Yeah, this room is actually doing quite well.
 
user12867493
@CodyGray So, let me ask you a question. Where would one go to ask about the expats election (like @ouflak did here) if it wasn't for this room?
 
Well, that looks kinda bad
 
user12867493
@CodyGray Is it me or does that look white?
 
I like that contrast.
 
8:42 AM
Anyway, SO chat is for SO matters. If you want to talk about other SE sites, you use SE chat rooms. Or chat.meta.stackexchange.com
 
user12867493
Has dark mode got any improvements yet? The last time I used it, it had so little contrast in some areas so I turned it off
 
Zoe
The dark mode is strong in this one
 
/s/dark/invisibility
 
@Zoe well I haven't seen my friends who went to live in Norway for a number of years...But a lot of what you say sounds like the arguments you get in some US outlets. Some of your arguments, and the way you made them, has no tradition in European politics...
good morning all \o/
 
8:51 AM
o/
 
Zoe
@bad_coder Stack Overflow is an American-based site. European politics don't work unless it's GDPR
 
Yeah, we don't need Europe's politics. We have plenty of our own, thanks.
 
W007 43 people like what I have to say. #silverlining
@Daniil I use dark mode on SO, it's nice now. The only annoying thing is the white flash animation if you do dip into the review queue
 
user12867493
@Tschallacka Yeah, I found that annoying. One of the main reasons I turned it off
 
9:02 AM
@Zoe aaahhh but this is an election, and a significant part of the voter base: is European.
@Zoe so that, comes with a specific set of sensitivities, of choices in style of argument, of rules about what constitutes fair play...
 
Zoe
@bad_coder Citation needed
 
@Zoe about what in concrete?
 
Zoe
How many europeans have a chance of voting
 
@Zoe aahhhh where's the yearly SO inquiry? They give a composition of user base by race, gender, and geographic region....
 
Zoe
Except that covers who answered
Not everyone on SO answered, and not everyone who answered are on SO
and not everyone who answered has enough rep to vote
 
9:11 AM
@Zoe well, that's probably as close as you'll get, BUT the profiles themselves hold information, especially the most active....Have you seen few German nationals around? I've notice a lote...Remarkable amount of Italians also.
 
I suppose I'm technically a 'European', and I am registered to vote (through the state of Nevada).
 
@ouflak drunk rampage in Vegas :D
 
Zoe
Ngl, I've met more americans than europeans
 
:D Lived there for almost two years. No drunk rampages (by me) though. It is lovely part of the country if you know what to appreciate.
 
@ouflak I have a good friend there, a mathematician.
@CodyGray I participate in a few US forums that are representative...It's election year, so right about now all the inactive accounts will be coming out of the woodwork, and you'll get the staunch militants exchange the normal arguments and polemics.
@Zoe Norway is somehow special, because it's heavily in the UK sphere of influence. You can notice that, by the number of references to Norway in British news. I'd have to ask someone from my culture to draw the significant differences and similarities.
 
9:28 AM
@bad_coder, Yeah, There's good work for mathematicians in Vegas. I worked with a few while I was there, translating their work into actual working software.
 
@ouflak since we're talking politics, you appreciate the House of Commons is a real laugh, as someone said:"The country is run from a Friday night pub."
@ouflak John Bercow was real funny, what a character...
 
9:49 AM
Comparing the house of commons to a friday night pub is friendly :p I've always considered it more of a child's playground
 
10:01 AM
Sort of staying out of this. My own opinions about how the system here would preferrably (to me) work are strongly influenced by my American background. I'm just glad they are elected.
 
10:32 AM
@Nick Ha that's really good :)
@ouflak right now most folks (myself included) are waiting to see how Brexit plays out and how things are going to be after it's settled...
 
No kidding, just like most folks (myself included) stopped caring about Brexit long ago and just wanted something to happen regardless of what it was :p
 
@Zoe Norway has an "Agrarian Party" taking 11% of the Storting...
 
@bad_coder I think putting Norway "heavily in the UK sphere of influence" would make a lot of Norwegians laugh/cry/want-to-hurt-you.
 
@AdrianMole Wdym, the UK and Norway have literally never been at war with each other, and we're good friends with plenty of trade :p
 
@Nick there you go, close historical ties and agreement...
 
10:45 AM
Yeah, I mean there was that whole viking thing....
 
We don't talk about that >.>
 
Sure, we're friends. But I don't think the Norwegian government gives a rat's bottom for what Westminster says or thinks.
 
Zoe
@bad_coder I know, I live here xd
They also want to kill wolves so farmers can do less work
 
The damn Scandinavians calling the English war the English war because: "It is named after England, the common name in Scandinavia of the United Kingdom"
 
Yeah, that party is bunk
 
10:47 AM
No wonder people don't know the difference
:p
 
@Nick Americans have the same problem
 
Aware, every time I've been to the states I get the same question: "You're from England?!, Have you seen snow?"
 
And there's Shetland, of course - as much Norwegian as Scottish, in many ways.
 
I was taking a college course on Britain that basically covered from the Glorious Revolution to the Industrial Revolution, and after one or two lectures, the professor finally had to stop and explain what "Britain", "United Kingdom", "England", etc. all meant because too many students were confused.
 
@CodyGray Do you remember the difference?
 
10:49 AM
@Nick Haha, yes. I majored in European history, among other things. Kinda a requirement.
 
Haha, fair enough then :D
 
@CodyGray I'm catching on right now :D
 
@CodyGray Was that before or after you were a "failed botanist"? ;-)
 
@AdrianMole Simultaneously!
 
hehe
 
10:50 AM
I was only a failed botanist because I decided not to take the one extra course that was standing between me and a major in Plant Biology.
 
@CodyGray umm... what was the confusion if I may ask?
 
@JonClements Nobody knows the difference. People call Britain, "England".
 
@JonClements The UK collectively is called England, Britain collectively is called England and England is called England
 
@JonClements Well, is Northern Ireland part of England? Or part of Great Britain? Or part of the UK?
 
It doesn't help that the meaning of "United Kingdom" has changed over the years as, um, different kingdoms have been and not been united together.
That matters when you're studying history; not so much for politics.
@Nick Don't the English still do that? :-p
 
10:52 AM
@CodyGray I'm hoping it never reaches the poing where it becomes the United Kingdom of England, Wales and Northern Ireland (I even voted against that happening xd)
 
@CodyGray Too frequently.
 
@Nick You voted against the name change? Because... those are all already included.
 
Zoe
@Nick I'd like to interject for a moment to let you know that what you're calling England is in fact London
 
Don't get me started Zoe xD
 
Zoe
:P
 
10:54 AM
@CodyGray I voted against Scottish Independance
 
Oh, I see. You were excluding Scotland.
 
Most Londoners probably dissociate themselves from the "Hard Core English!"
Scotland is always excluded - by design and by default.
 
What's fun is when you're studying history, and there are names like "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland".
How's that different from "United Kingdom" and "Great Britain"?
Well, you see... between ~1800 and 1922....
 
"United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland" - The Irish would have words to say with you about that
 
Now its "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland." But many Irish have words to say about that, still.
 
10:56 AM
@Nick They said it during the Irish War of Independence, from 1919 to 1921....
 
Zoe
@Nick don't you mean a barfight to start? :p
 
It's always religions fault :p
 
uh oh... is everyone sitting comfortably? Professor Cody is in the house :p
 
The 1800 Acts of Union remains law in what is now called the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, but the Irish have repealed it. Something about imperialism, mumble mumble
 
Fun story, the protestant/catholic war between NI/ROI is the same reason that Rangers/Celtic fans hate each other :p you'll know all about that though @AdrianMole
 

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