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8:19 PM
Surely there must be a canonical for findViewById returning null because you called it before setContentView... stackoverflow.com/q/3264610/208273 is for a different case related to custom views, despite the incorrect #2 answer being for the case I'm looking for.
 
@RyanM There is; one sec
There's also stackoverflow.com/q/36446114/6296561 for top-level use and stackoverflow.com/q/10469283/6296561 for fragments
I keep a list of Android canonicals, though I haven't touched it in a while
I started it because of the findViewByID dupes being a fucking pain in the ass to re-find
 
thanks!
yeah I have a bunch of 'em too
 
Would be great to have a canonical for all causes of findViewByID returning null, but I honestly don't care anymore
 
hilariously I was trying to find a dupe for stackoverflow.com/q/23039672, so I went for that one and then searched for one that correctly describes loading HTML assets into a webview
 
the Android tag is too much of a clusterfuck for me to bother with
 
8:25 PM
which is exactly the case of "trying to load html into a webview before calling setContentView"
perfect dupe
 
Still a shame Android invaded the Kotlin tag. It completely tanked the question quality
 
Isn't Kotlin Android?
2
 
ehhh you can just filter it
 
@TylerH Such an insult.
 
I mean I was being serious
I don't code for mobile devices but I thought Kotlin is what you wrote Android apps in
 
8:32 PM
What, seriously?
Oh.
 
It is, these days
(that's the official recommendation, at least)
 
oh, was it not always
I thought it was like the iOS -> Swift thing for Apple phones; Java -> Kotlin
 
@TylerH Yes, but Kotlin wasn't made exclusively for Android
 
Jetbrains (behind Intellij, etc) created Kotlin to run on the JVM platform, like many other languages.
 
8:34 PM
remind me btw, do mod flags get cleared on a post if it is destroyed for spam?
 
Kotlin as a language is a JVM language, and runs whereever Java runs. More, actually, because there's also Kotlin Native, which runs whereever LLVM runs
 
But then Google really liked Kotlin (also because they had lots of problems with Java, one of them being stuck in version 8)
 
@TylerH Not AFAIK
 
@TylerH nope, just found that out
 
OK good
was wanting to make sure the chatgpt mod flag I raise didn't get lost w/ the spam flag destruction of the post
 
8:34 PM
had to clear one manually. potentially the one you're asking about.
 
So Kotlin is in a state where it's now meant to run on multiple platforms; the JVM, and Google's native one, if I'm not wrong.
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship Kotlin is one of my favorite languages. Except the imports, that bit still sucks
 
@ZoestandswithUkraine No idea what's up with their imports. Same as in Java? What's the problem?
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship three targets: JVM bytecode, JavaScript, and anything LLVM can target.
 
@RyanM JS? That's weird.
 
8:35 PM
sounds confusing
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship The import system makes it a pain in the ass to use anything but a thicc IDE
 
(the JVM bytecode target is used for Android apps)
 
@ZoestandswithUkraine this IDE is dummy thicc
 
You have to manually import every class, and they're all in like com.fucking.unnecessarily.deeply.nested.packages.before.you.get.to.the.class.youre.InterestedIn
 
@ZoestandswithUkraine I like thicc IDEs. I've never used Kotlin, though, so it's not clear to me why you need an IDE to comfortably manage them.
 
8:36 PM
It has star imports
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship The import system is the same as in Java
 
@TylerH what I meant is that you used to write them in Java but nowadays Kotlin is the recommendation
 
Oh, and it also infuriates me that the auto-import system is smart enough to recognise ambiguities and ask, but not smart enough to investigate the return type of a thing and auto-import
 
@RyanM Which is quite weird, because that's stuck at version 8, which is quite outdated. I find it strange that the norm isn't just to compile to ARM instructions.
 
If a function returns com.some.Class, why tf would I want to import com.sun.internal.Class, or some wildly different class?
 
8:38 PM
@ZoestandswithUkraine Which I quite like, but I'm also using IntelliJ IDEA, and not Vim.
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship That wouldn't run very well on x86 devices :-)
Android isn't exclusively ARM
 
Yeah, can't forget about Windows Phone! Oh wait...
 
also there are multiple versions of ARM
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship Vim has auto-complete and auto-import. It's just as bad as IntelliJ's auto-import
 
Mobile Android runs on x86? Well, you could do similar to what was common for Apple platforms: compile to both x86_64 and Aarch64.
 
8:40 PM
The major difference, though, is that at least Vim lets me just move my cursor over using my keyboard and clicking a keybind (including for showing errors) rather than forcing me to manually move my mouse over the error to see it
Fucking horseshit design
 
@ZoestandswithUkraine But just select from the dropdown list. It works just fine.
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship that wouldn't run very well on 32-bit ARM or x86 ;-)
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship Sure, but why do I have to when the type I'm declaring is the result of a function that imports a specific type?
 
@ZoestandswithUkraine Better than includes. And yes, I know C++ is getting (or has gotten) a new module system.
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship Has, in C++20. We're on C++23 and C++26 is being planned
 
8:41 PM
@RyanM So compile 4 different binaries, then.
 
@TylerH I believe that "Windows Phone" only ever ran on ARM, technically :-p
 
I think
C++26 is being planned, with early proposals already being added, but I don't remember if C++23 is formally done or not yet
Pretty sure it is
 
I don't think it is.
Anyway.
 
> C++23 is the next ISO/IEC 14882 standard for the C++ programming language. Slated for release in December 2023,
It's not
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship and then there's all the different versions of ARM...
admittedly that's less important
 
8:43 PM
@RyanM So compile 64 different binaries, then.
You Android guys gotta decide.
 
also whatever results in the absolutely insane size of iOS binaries I very much do not want
 
@RyanM You don't need more than one version of the assets, shared for all binaries.
 
Define insane
 
like 200MB
 
That's... like nothing
 
8:45 PM
@ZoestandswithUkraine Jedi: Survivor requiring 200 GBs free disk space for a 1GB update.
 
for one app?! We shipped 3 architectures' worth of native PDF reader plus the entire rest of the app in under 40MB at my last job on Android.
 
@RyanM Maybe the native PDF reader wasn't a very high quality application.
Maybe it was like Adobe Acrobat Reader vs Apple Preview. One is slow, heavy, laggy, and resource hogging, and the other one is snappy and instant.
 
iPhones start at 64GB. 200MB just for the app is nuts.
 
You haven't defined what app though
 
@RyanM Mine has 256 GB, and I only have like a GB free. It's filled with music.
 
8:49 PM
A few arbitrarily selected popular iOS apps: Spotify is 134.4MB, Telegram in 107MB, Netflix is 124.8MB, Snapchat is 270MB, Google Maps is 209.1MB, Twitter is 214.9MB, Cash App is 468.4MB (!!!), United Airlines is 381.8MB, Facebook is 299.1MB, Uber is 329.8MB, Instagram is 262.9 MB
 
Spotify on Android is 124MB
Netflix 106
 
Maps is 119, which could potentially be attributed to Google knowing Android better than iOS
 
Ew, Google Maps.
 
The rest I don't have installed
 
8:52 PM
it could, although it's one of the smaller ones on iOS. Also a bad example to compare since Play Services exists and there's at least some functionality offloaded to that on Android.
 
The point is, Android isn't much better anymore
 
I remember Pokemon GO doing something worse (when I was still playing it, which was probably two or three years ago). Basically I think they shipped the update (which was usually around 50-100MB) with the entire app everytime there was a new update
 
Also, how do you measure their size? If you happened to just get these values from the iOS settings app, their documents and caches are probably included. Caches for a map application can be quite large, for instance.
 
so I think the game was more than 1GB? so 1GB+size of the update everytime for every update
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship This is "App Size" on an iPhone, which is separate from "Documents & Data"
 
8:53 PM
what people had to do to prevent this was to uninstall the game and reinstall it to get the update without the huge waste of space
 
I can't download CashApp to check for no obvious reason
 
CashApp isn't available in Norway.
 
my non-development Android phone is unfortunately out of commission at the moment due to battery issues, need to replace that
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship Guess I'll check mirror sites then
 
@ZoestandswithUkraine Change your App Store region to USA.
 
8:55 PM
ew, no
Nvm, found the entry for the size in the store
... though that does say download size and not binary size
 
@RyanM I don't really think that's correct. For one, that includes the assets, and not just the binaries. I also think it includes caches which don't get cleared as often. Try connecting the phone to a computer, and check its file system.
 
1) it's excluding documents and data
and also assets count!
 
Telegram says 29 download
unpacked to 76 MB
 
@RyanM Data is considered to be personal data. Assets are app data.
Simply put, if you delete the app, documents and data remain. You wouldn't keep assets.
 
Right, so assets should count and personal data should not
 
8:59 PM
So like, a third, so 74 * 3 = at least 222 MB for Cash App on Android
 
which is what it appears to count
Android: Cash App is 94.98MB
 
Actual, downloaded size?
 
@RyanM No, the iOS UI shows what matters to the user. The user doesn't care about the differences between binaries and assets. They only care about the size of the app itself, and the size of their personal data with that app.
 
@ZoestandswithUkraine Yeah, installed
 
/shrug
Might just be awfully optimised
 
9:00 PM
@Andreasdetestscensorship right, and the size of the app itself includes the assets
 
Is this CashApp? It says the size is 43 MB (44,4 in the browser).
Also, keep in mind who the users of Android and iOS devices are. When developing iOS apps, one assumes that the iOS phones have more than enough storage for the apps; as such, optimizing for size is not a goal. However, on Android, this is a goal, because many Android devices are cheap devices, which don't have as much space. So don't necessarily blame the OS for this; it's a choice of the developers.
 
Android: Telegram is 72.82MB, Netflix is 74.24MB, Snapchat is 171MB, Twitter is 113MB, United is 323MB (comparably horrible on both), Facebook is 204MB, Uber is 354MB (jeeeeez, even larger on Android!), Instagram is 157MB
@Andreasdetestscensorship no, that's something else. This is Cash App.
 
The sizes aren't even that different, really. I wouldn't attribute this too much to the binaries, and the choices of the OS. It's two different platforms, with different goals, and application developers have different target audiences on the platforms, and engineer their apps differently.
@RyanM Ah. That's quite big, yeah. But not too gigantic. But hey, I see the first review: "freed us from checks". :P Haha. Funny. You Americans live in the past.
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship Again, iPhones start at 64GB. The Google Pixel, which has a lower starting cost, starts at 128GB.
 
@RyanM Pixel 6a is considered a higher end phone, isn't it? Android is also an OS for low-cost devices with 8 GB. As such, application developers must take that into account.
 
9:09 PM
@Andreasdetestscensorship that's download size
Which is smaller than an install because gzip
 
Well, yes, and I assume some assets are removed based on the device it's installed on.
No reason to keep assets which aren't of use on the current device.
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship Pixel 6a is midrange, spec-wise. Starts at 349USD.
 
@RyanM And I have no idea what the American prices for any phones are.
But they're lower than here, that's for sure.
We pay 25% tax for them.
Like we do for everything else.
 
low-end would be something like the Galaxy A03s, starting at USD$160 for 32GB of storage
in the US, you can go a bit lower than that before you start getting into no-name junk, but probably not a lot further (and if you're looking at that price range, you should consider a used phone)
 
Pixel 6A costs 3990 NOK (364 USD)
Very likely less in the near foreseeable future, when the US pulls the trigger on the shutgun it holds against its own economy by not raising the debt ceiling
 
9:38 PM
we now have 4 additional days to get it done
 
9:55 PM
@ZoestandswithUkraine But it's still running Android. Perhaps Cody wants to buy it?
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship Still better than Apple's anti-consumer products
 
@ZoestandswithUkraine Ehem, Google less anti-consumer than Apple? Yeah, sure...
 
Remind me, which of the two go to extreme lengths to prevent repair, and incentivise buyers of their products to just buy a new and unnecessarily expensive product (that's usually inferior to equivalent products in terms of hardware) rather than repairing?
And what same company has actively been fighting right to repair in the US?
And the standardisation of USB C in the EU?
Oh yeah, it's Apple, innit?
 
10:12 PM
Well, speaking from personal experience, I keep my phones for 5 years. Every time there's been an issue with them, Apple repaired my phones for free. Android phones don't last as long. And also, right to repair is not the only consumer right. Apple does in fact make some good points in their case against letting anybody repair iPhones. But while they do have some good points, I also do agree with you about the criticism of them; they should support it more. But that said, for the most part
,
Apple treats me much better than Google does. And I will choose Apple any day over Google.
 
/shrug, enjoy your locked-in ecosystem I guess
 
@ZoestandswithUkraine Requring USB-C in phones is stupid. I do not want USB-C in my phone. Lightning, except its speed, is a better solution. The criticism against Apple over USB-C is built on lack of knowledge.
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship and what exactly are you basing the assumption about Android-based phones not lasting as long on?
 
And I do want to remind you that Apple has been one of the most prominent supporters of USB-C, while the Android manufacturers messed around with garbage like micro-USB.
 
i'd prefer usb-c, but really don't care generally. i'd prefer usb-c so that i have more options when buying/finding chargers
 
10:15 PM
@OlegValteriswithUkraine Software support.
 
USB-C is great, but not for everything. I do not need USB-C in my phone, and neither do I want it. I am very grateful that my headphones use USB-C, though, and I'm annoyed that my mouse uses micro-USB (it should've used USB-C).
 
but i hate android phones, i'm sure most of it is i've been using ios for more than a decade, but i just can't get used to the way android phones work. they always feel so unresponsive
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine Many phones cut off updates after 2-3 years, though in recent years, the amount of years has been trending upwards
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine Yes, software support. Apple supports their phones with software for many years. Android phones don't have that support.
 
10:17 PM
my 5 year old phone still gets updates
the Xs
 
I've an 11 Pro. Had iPhone 6 before that.
 
yeah 6 was my prior as well
i think i'm due a replacement soon, it's been overheating very easily
 
The iPhone 6 did break, though... Twice. So I got replacement phones for free both times. Apple finally fixed its internal structure, and the phone never broke again (the 3rd one), except for when the battery died.
@KevinB Check if the battery is to blame, first, and if you can replace it affordably.
 
i mean, i'm someone who very much cares for convenience, and the closest repair shop for apple is 2 hours away
 
I just go back to the shop where I bought it (we don't have Apple Stores, btw, in Norway), and hand it in. Then I come pick it up sometime later that week. Well, doesn't have to be the same shop, but must be the same chain.
 
10:22 PM
@Andreasdetestscensorship with what software?
 
alternative is clicking add to cart, checkout, and having a new phone in the mailbox for $10 a month added on to my bill for a year or two
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship If you buy it at a normal store, that's not Apple
That's Norway having pro-consumer laws that Apple, if they could, would happily lobby to yeet. They fortunately can't
 
@ZoestandswithUkraine I know. But it's seamless. And yes, I avoid Elkjøp and Expert. Eplehuset is always great.
 
That said, discussing why apple is bad with people supporting apple is generally a lost cause, for the same reason trying to discuss why a lot of what Musk does is dumb with a Musk shill is an exercise in futility, so I'm gonna go do literally anything else
 
@ZoestandswithUkraine Well, yeah, I know, and that's why I'm happy we have those laws. Right to repair is a thing here as well, though, and applies when the damage is caused by yourself.
 
10:25 PM
yeah the local shop for my provider doesn't do drop off repair, i'd have to go to one of their other branch locations, the closest of which is an hour and a half away
 
@ZoestandswithUkraine I'm not "supporting Apple". But you do push me to do so when you make badly supported claims about them, or just simply blame them for something unfair or stupid, such as USB-C.
 
the downsides of living in mississippi
there aint nothing here
and yet we get equal representation to california
;)
 
@KevinB Try Finnmarksvidden.
 
10:38 PM
@Andreasdetestscensorship Their reason not to is rooted in the aforementioned anti-consumer behaviour: theverge.com/2021/9/24/22690338/… - switching to USB-C means they lose control and revenue, because all accessories go via Apple. It also allows them to continue making sub-par products that are designed to break, because if you use Apple, you don't have a choice
Defending apple on USB-C is built on a lack of knowledge
Oh, and in case the article wasn't clear enough about it; one if Apple's arguments is that it'll "create e-waste", an argument they don't use about their alleged move to remove all ports from the iPhone, which would require completely new chargers and also create e-waste. The reason Apple doesn't care there is that they retain control of their charger ecosystem. With USB-C, they don't
@OlegValteriswithUkraine For the record, the OS. After you buy an Android phone, depending on the manufacturer, you get a couple years of major upgrades and security patches
Mine (Nokia X10) has 3 years of software and security upgrades before it's cut off. It is a legitimate criticism against most Android vendors, but it isn't an inherit limitation set by Google. Google itself is actually slightly better. Google Pixel 6A has guaranteed OS version upgrades "until at least" June 2025, and guaranteed security upgrades for another 1.5 years (January 2027), a discrepancy that presumably is rooted in Android getting increasingly heavy, making it difficult to backport
(which also isn't great)
Security upgrades are also "at least" on the page I checked, so it's not a hard cutoff there either
assuming it's a legitimate and accurate source anyway
(The dates are correct, it's the "at least" that might be questionable)
 
11:02 PM
(also note that pixel 6a was released mid-2022)
 
So 3 years of OS updates and ~5 of security patches? Not really bad, considering Android's update model
 

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