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12:55 AM
@OlegValteriswithUkraine It's... somewhat unclear if that's a ban evasion account.
The question ban system could really use some more transparency.... some users end up in a question ban without ever being warned. And it's not really clear from our rules governing sockpuppets if asking questions from multiple accounts when none of the accounts are question banned is acceptable or not.
Given the policies, it seems that that would be OK up until one of those accounts hits a question ban. Then any new question asked from any of the other accounts (for the duration of the ban) would now constitute q-ban evasion.
 
 
2 hours later…
3:20 AM
🤔
 
 
2 hours later…
5:18 AM
0
Q: Messed up buttons in Tag Watching & Ignoring settings

AnonymousGo to your user page > Settings > Email Settings > Tag Watching & Ignoring (Page: https://stackoverflow.com/users/tag-notifications/XXX) There is no space between Add a tag and Done. Additionally: The buttons are working, but when the input box is hidden, Done is useless and when the input box i...

 
6:09 AM
@HenryEcker hmm, granted, this one might not be one of the cases - I started to doubt my initial interpretation when Dharman started patiently commenting there suggesting what to do :)
 
 
3 hours later…
8:42 AM
0
Q: The case of the excessive space in burnination banners

Zoe stands with UkraineBurnination notices have gotten some excessive spacing at the top and bottom: This has also applied retroactively to completion banners: I have not checked the featured burnination notice, but I assume it's the same thing there. If not, yay? This is caused by the excessive, empty <p> tags ...

 
I think we have a new drinking game candidate: whenever SE fucks up whitespace
 
Or make it another bingo cell, I guess.
Alongside with gender bigotry.
> Announcing one's sexual fantasies is not polite in my book. You say gendered does not mean sexist, if so, what is gendered? I do not want to be immersed in sexual fantasies as a constant barrage, and I see too much of that for my tastes.
 
If you see too many sexual fantasies, you are probably in a different kind of site.
 
@Enet4 where the **** is that from?
 
8:53 AM
@OlegValteriswithUkraine Meta SE. The new CoC thingamajig.
It's interesting how they are quick to take down and suspend accusations of ill intent, but not as fast to take down things they want to explicitly admit being violations of the code of conduct.
 
@Enet4 oh, it's under that answer... missed it, sorry
on a related note, where on earth have they got the notion that gender is a historically inconsistent term? There's always been a clear distinction between sex (who someone is "biologically" [which, in itself, is commonly considered a reductive term]) and gender (who someone identifies as).
 
Just the usual conservative propaganda.
They prefer not to look deep into the subject and continue to "search and eradicate the gay gene", in huge quotes.
 
9:09 AM
@OlegValteriswithUkraine Based on a video by professor Dave explains, it's likely based on the words for sex and gender being identical, causing confusion for people who fail to understand that English is fundamentally ambiguous and dependent on context
 
@Enet4 le soupir
 
1
Q: Roomba'd questions are appearing in search (again)

Zoe stands with UkraineThis has now been fixed twice. As of approximately 10.04.2023, the date some of the first questions were deleted, the bug has regressed. Demo search; note that the search is inaccurate, and does include questions that don't meet the roomba criteria (or questions that do, but haven't quite roomba'...

 
@ZoestandswithUkraine as an ironic aside, my native language lacks a word to express "gender", however, that doesn't stop anyone from understanding the difference... On a tangent note, we use the same word for "sex" (in the sense above) and "floor" for some reason.
@NewPosts I see you decided you can be arsed to report it, @ZoestandswithUkraine :)
 
@ZoestandswithUkraine Ain't that from the same people who took over "woke"?
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine when on meta I guess
 
9:18 AM
hmmm, that got me curious - have we even had a week without a bug report submitted?
 
judging from the list of questions tagged , the only one this year was between Jan, 20th and Jan, 29th :)
 
xD I imagine you'll have to keep asking that until you are that old
 
At that point, I would just walk into SO's headquarters and fix it for them
well, more realistically, not the HQ
I don't feel like going to the land of being arbitrarily shot
on the bright side, I now have a template that I'm going to shamelessly copy-pasta the next time the bug regresses
 
9:25 AM
please, add an "again" every time you have to report it. And I am pretty sure that at some point, SE will break the title size limit
 
I was thinking more along the lines of "Roomba'd questions are appearing in search (again, twice/thrice/...)" for readability
And every single bug report will start with the exact count of previous reports, just as a reminder
 
@ZoestandswithUkraine unfortunately, you are going to run out of the forms pretty quickly...
 
Yeah, but beats running out of title space
 
9:42 AM
I guess you can increment a counter every time it overflows the number of available forms :)
 
huh
The first fix was made on 01.09.2022, after appearing in 2020
The second fix on 07.12.22, after regressing in november 2022
 
The third fix on <insert the date SE fixes that here>
 
So like, when this is fixed, check again in 3-6 months
It'll probably have regressed
 
my question is - how does it keep regressing?
 
Firing competent devs? /shrug
 
9:51 AM
30% of them
 
@NewPosts Rrrrr, those thicc spaces.
@NewPosts I remember somebody saying they were not going to write this…
 
37 mins ago, by Zoe stands with Ukraine
@OlegValteriswithUkraine when on meta I guess
 
Do you guys ever take trains? Does anybody know why the train seats in Norway are so painful?
@ZoestandswithUkraine MSE isn’t shooting land.
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship It's because they purchased more afjørdable seats.
 
@Enet4 Damn, you have even worse jokes than me. Madness!
 
9:59 AM
I know right.
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship She means 'Merica.
 
@ZoestandswithUkraine I think regressed a couple of times even before that?
 
@CodyGray Welcome back to Chat! Now, I prepared some Java for you…
3
 
By the way, anyone want to summarize the last 6 months of transcript for me?
 
9:59 AM
@Andreasdetestscensorship I sometimes do - it's a neat experience
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine they've had a couple rounds of firing though
 
I have plenty of Java.
 
@CodyGray Everything sucks and is broken
 
Oh, I didn't need chat to see that...
 
Also someone tried to push a licorice agenda, which we will hopefully continue to push back.
 
10:00 AM
We don't like licorice?
 
Oh yeah, I forgot about that
 
@CodyGray Well, some people cited you, which lead me to write a Meta post, and then, none of the assumptions came through, and, and Kevin and Tyler were quite annoying yesterday, lots of licorice, and that’s mostly it?
 
May 16 at 16:02, by Zoe stands with Ukraine
yesterday, by Zoe stands with Ukraine
@Andreasdetestscensorship On behalf of every past, present, and future living and dead creatures, ew
 
We don't love it enough to merit it being brought up for no reason. That's what waffles and pancakes are for.
 
@CodyGray We love licorice!
 
10:01 AM
27 secs ago, by Zoe stands with Ukraine
May 16 at 16:02, by Zoe stands with Ukraine
yesterday, by Zoe stands with Ukraine
@Andreasdetestscensorship On behalf of every past, present, and future living and dead creatures, ew
 
@CodyGray SE bugs, SE layoffs, blog sucks, "eww", politics - pretty much business as usual
 
It's OK in certain things and in moderation.
@OlegValteriswithUkraine "eww" was independent of those other things?
@Andreasdetestscensorship You wrote a Meta post about people citing me? Well, that's awfully meta, and I love it.
 
@CodyGray Maybe the starred messages can help you with that reference.
 
wew
 
They’ve been throwing lots of eeewws at me. Sophisticated bullying. 😤
 
10:02 AM
All the starred messages tell me is that (A) Zoe likes repeating herself, and (B) Zoe doesn't like licorice.
I knew one of those things already. I'll let you guess which one.
 
You got it all wrong. Zoe loves licorice.
 
Great. The starred messages page was suggesting me to translate from Vietnamese.
 
10:03 AM
Remember when the stars weren't random? Pepperidge Farms does.
 
What about anise?
 
They’re not random. They’re still invoked by people clicking on starring. But now that you mention it, using an RNG sounds nice.
 
Wait, which ones are the people?
 
Good question. They’re all ewwing monsters to me.
Anybody wants some licorice?
 
*moderators, although I see how that can be easily confused with "monsters".
Is a female sheep a eweing monster?
 
Good question. I do prefer goats.
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship Sure thing! Just put them in this box that totally isn't a chute leading straight to an incineration furnace for biohazards
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship With your licorice, or separate?
Actually, goat cooked with star anise is pretty good.
 
@CodyGray They’d look very pretty covered in licorice sauce.
@ZoestandswithUkraine There’s a few of those in the city.
 
10:08 AM
@CodyGray well, we only have a pair of glasses, a hat crab, a foxhound, a crazy Russian cat, a flying head, a wild carrot, a minecraft character, a visual bug, and an abstract geometric shape around, so I am also unsure who are they talking about.
 
So... I make a joke about Norwegian seats and the message which got stars is about a browser's suggestion to translate from Vietnamese.
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine You lie. We have thousands of visual bugs.
 
@CodyGray only one of which tries to feed you licorice :)
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship I told the city about your habits, and they sent me a portable one, along with a flamethrower in case a plan B is necessary :p
No pressure
 
Yeah, I don't think flamethrowers create much pressure
 
10:11 AM
@Enet4 ~ Not everything is star-worthy
 
Not everystar is thing-worthy
 
@CodyGray Then you missed thermodynamics. Flame throwers heat up the air, which creates a pressure inside the sealed room. So obviously, Zoe is threatening to blow me up.
 
I may have missed thermodynamics, but I was there for sarcasm.
 
Sarcasm? What’s that?
 
It's something that mean people do in order to hurt others' feelings.
 
10:14 AM
The total sarcasm in a system remains constant, although it may be converted from one form to another.
 
Wow, you’re right. We need to ban it. Put it into the CoC.
 
Last I heard, the initiative was to put everything in the CoC.
 
There's a far bigger threat though: dihydrogenmonoxide
 
Wait, so eating licorice becomes mandatory?
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship No, but your licorice campaign may be considered harmful. :)
 
10:16 AM
It's more like eating licorice would be forbidden because some segment of our userbase finds it offensive.
 
Together, we can put an end to dihydrogenmonoxide-abuse
 
It's everywher
 
Only once we put an end to chemical ignorance.
 
Did you know 100% of fatalities involve dihydrogenmonoxide?
 
@CodyGray Well, then why don’t you start in the most downvoted answer to the new CoC? :)
 
10:17 AM
I've started by cleverly avoiding that entire discussion.
 
@ZoestandswithUkraine I think the statistics speak for themselves. All current usages of this compound must be replaced with liquid licorice.
 
I'm not sure you know what a liquid is?
 
@Enet4 Impossible.
 
I guess we could replace it with dipotassium glycyrrhizinate.
> As of my knowledge cutoff in September 2021, [answer continues...]
Sigh.
 
They haven’t visited chat since 2021?
 
10:24 AM
@ZoestandswithUkraine I was outside and I got covered by the stuff. I need to go get a shower to get it off!
 
It wasn't from chat. It was from an answer posted to a question on the main site. That is literally how the answer began.
 
@CodyGray It’s a ChatGPT answer.
 
You think?
 
@CodyGray Not sure if you’re joking or not now, but yes, clearly. ;)
 
I guess I thought the subsequent "Sigh" would convey that I knew that.
 
10:40 AM
Yes, but then you proceeded to misunderstand my joke. ;)
 
Yeah, I still don't understand it. What does chat have to do with anything?
 
I'm sorry, but as an AI language model, I am incapable of translating sarcastic remarks.
 
@CodyGray You came back asking for a transcript summary, as you’ve been gone from chat. So you had a knowledge cutoff, similar to ChatGPT.
But I guess my jokes aren’t always that understandable, like when ROs make jokes suggesting people to post AI answers on SO, I make a following joke, and I receive a big wall of unfriendly «don’t break the rules; you will be removed» in return.
 
was the joke postfixed with /s? :)
 
Oh, I see the problem. You think that my knowledge cut off. Don't worry, I'm still as smart as ever. :-)
@OlegValteriswithUkraine No, it just had a bunch of <p>s...
 
10:53 AM
I like peas.
 
@CodyGray apparently, that's in line with SE's line of thought :)
 
Why is "Related questions" still ludicrously bad?
 
is this a rhetorical question?
 
Didn't I read that they said that the only reason it sucked is because all the people who noted that it sucked were not part of the A group in the A/B test?
So, now the A/B test is over, right, and we're all in the A group? So why does it still suck?
 
A good theory is that the metric they used to evaluate them is subpar.
 
10:56 AM
Not a single one of these "related questions" is related in any way. Partly because not a single one of them is about Whatsapp.
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine No, I never do that. That would severely ruin my jokes. This particular case was quite obvious.
 
@Enet4 No, that can't be. I heard they were using AI. The CEO told me that always gets the right answer, at least if given enough time and training data. Haven't we waited long enough?
 
@CodyGray AI != ML.
 
2 mins ago, by Oleg Valter is with Ukraine
is this a rhetorical question?
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship Well, that's just wrong. Machine learning is a subcategory of AI.
 
10:58 AM
No, it’s a rant.
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship ML is a form of AI, but that is beyond the point.
 
@CodyGray how did it even infer enums from that body?
 
I think all it managed to infer was "C#"
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship Machine learning is a rant?
 
So it just listed the top-scoring questions tagged [c#}.
 
10:59 AM
@CodyGray yeeah, likely
 
Quite a carpy outcome, considering that is the oldest tag in the site.
 
I don't know how or why the one about Excel is in there. That isn't even a particularly top-scoring question in the C# tag.
Yeah, I agree it's quite fishy.
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship Father Thomas on the line - can you point to the exact discussion that caused this?
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/56370463#56370463 and the next 2 messages.
@CodyGray Yeah, that's all it's doing. And not even in order, just kinda haphazardly picked from the top N questions. That's... terrible.
It's no better than just looking at the tags.
 
@CodyGray huh? That doesn't seem like what Andreas is describing? I guess?
 
11:02 AM
Yeah, it didn't seem "quite obvious" to me, either.
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine No, this misunderstanding of jokes reminded me of something that’s been repeatedly annoying me, when an RO makes jokes, but can’t take jokes in return.
 
@CodyGray btw, are you sure they did go forward with the "AI"-generated list of related questions feature and not just with the "we made the list even more obnoxious by making you scroll even more" one?
 
Anyway. I don’t want to point to the specific case. I’m not gonna make a conflict between people at this moment.
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine Well, I'm going by the "We are graduating the "Related questions using Machine Learning" experiment" question currently featured on Meta, which says "The machine learning model for related questions has been graduated on Stack Overflow."
@Andreasdetestscensorship Probably smart. I quite like most of the ROs, including the one(s) you're probably complaining about. :-)
 
@CodyGray oook, I think I need to reread it. If that is how it "works", it's horrifying (I just took a look at a couple more questions with the list - all have an equally nonsensical list of "related" questions).
 
11:06 AM
"But was it really a success? [...] [W]e were able to check the data and determined that those who had reported seeing less relevancy in the suggested related questions were not part of the experiment group, meaning they were not seeing related questions generated from the ML model."
In other words, all of your complaints are invalid, all of your base are belong to us.
 
> For now, the related questions displayed on pages of questions asked since February 2023 will still be generated by Elasticsearch, but we plan to reduce our dependence on this search engine over time to suggest related questions
I am not sure I understand what exactly does it mean
 
@Enet4 Cody was ranting.
 
So, I'm not entirely sure, either, but the way I interpreted that was that the list in the sidebar will remain the same as it always has, generated by Elasticsearch (although it may be changed to be more horrible in the future), but the new inline list will be generated using teh AI algorithm.
@CodyGray It's actually genius. Far more than I would have ever expected of the current crew. What you do is, you opt the Meta crowd out of the A/B test, then you can dismiss all of their complaints/feedback as "well, you weren't seeing the good version".
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine hmm, if the method for checking provided in the Meta post is correct, the BS I am seeing is generated via Elasticsearch
 
Oh, same. They're rq=2. Well, that makes no sense. Why is anything in that list still being generated by Elasticsearch?
 
11:15 AM
@CodyGray looks like that sentence I quoted means that it's actually the new content that still gets the Elasticsearch list? Maybe? I suppose?
 
Oh, yeah, I guess?
Wow, I am so confused.
That's the opposite of "graduated".
At least that gives hope that the vote buttons' styling won't actually change?
 
In Soviet SO, degree revokes you.
 
@user The guidance here about checking the url will still apply after graduation on May 22nd. At that point the vast majority of questions will be using the ML model, but a small number will still use Elasticsearch. — Sasha ♦ May 15 at 21:05
 
@CodyGray now you get my confusion :) Apparently, that sentence means that it's only active for content before February 2023...
 
Evidently, we have somehow managed to find the "small number".
Did you check only recent questions? Maybe the AI model takes time, whereas Elasticsearch's list can be generated nearly instantaneously?
 
11:19 AM
wait... apparently... not?
the content before February doesn't even have the section moved
 
Oh, they didn't ruin the whole site? Just the new stuff? Well, that's not nearly so bad. :-)
 
oh, wait. I just found one with rq=3
 
The old stuff is >90% of what I look at to solve problems.
 
24
Q: Are floatN_t in stdfloat guarenteed to be IEEE compliant?

Sourav Kannantha BUnlike fundamental types – float, double and long double – are the new floatN_t types in <stdfloat> introduced in C++23 going to be always IEEE standard binary floating point types? The cppreference page for fixed width floating-point does mention the bits of precision and exponent, which matches...

 
Ooooh, new Meta post.
 
11:21 AM
Ah, in the sidebar even.
 
mhm, no, it’s just Oleg feeding us.
 
hahaha wtf
 
27
Q: Are intmax_t and uintmax_t guaranteed to be of the same size?

Piotr SiupaI need to know if intmax_t is always "the same type" as uintmax_t except using two's complement instead of unsigned value. Or putting this in formal terms, will the code below always compile in a standard-compliant compiler? #include <cstdint> // The important assertion: static_assert(sizeof(std...

and this one
 
You confused me with an idiot who doesn't know what ChatGPT is, and now you've confused Oleg with the Meta barker bot.
@OlegValteriswithUkraine Wow, those are way worse. Verilog? On a question tagged C++ and C++17??!
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine aaaand judging by the list... it's not better at all
 
11:22 AM
I mean, they're like all Verilog.
 
@CodyGray just noticed it's somehow generated a list exclusively about Verilog for a C++ question...
 
Where did this machine learning model find Verilog anywhere in that question?
I've missed thinking the same thoughts as other people.
 
no idea, it's not present anywhere on the page
 
Well, it is now. :-)
 
well, apart from the sidebar that is :)
 
11:24 AM
The other one is all about TCP congestion control algorithms. So that's not better, just different.
The question has nothing to do with TCP or data rates or congestion avoidance or anything like that.
 
My C++ knowledge may be... lacking, but I don't think any of those are even remotely related to intmax_t and uintmax_t having the same size
 
I used the related questions list to learn programming. While it wasn’t exactly related to the question I was reading, it had lots of interesting reads for me as a learner, and it was nice that the list favourized same-language questions. Now it’s just useless.
 
@CodyGray at least it seems to generate nonsensical suggestions with a consistent theme, I suppose
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship Now you can learn to be a well-rounded programmer?
@OlegValteriswithUkraine Well, that actually seems like a disadvantage. I mean, what's better? Being consistently wrong, or being sometimes wrong?
 
@CodyGray But low quality content doesn’t teach me anything other than that humans are stupid.
 
11:26 AM
If it didn't fixate on a single, completely-unrelated topic, and draw all of its questions from that, then at least it might have a chance of finding one related question.
 
@CodyGray I didn't say it's better :) It's horrifying.
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship Well, no one said that the content it was finding was low-quality. No one has made that determination. it's just that it's completely unrelated to the question that was asked. In other words, not related. But, if, as you said, you're using the list to learn things, then you can just as well learn new, completely unrelated things, rather than related things, thus making you a more well-rounded programmer.
 
Just revert the related list back to «article» content, such as «what is branch prediction». That’s a useful read for beginners.
 
Oh, you mean that you want a "Greatest Hits" list.
 
@CodyGray Please explain how this is of particular use to me.
 
11:28 AM
oook, since I am, apparently, a masochist, let me check a couple of related questions sections in the field where I am an SME. brb
wow
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship Did you already know that standard Verilog doesn't allow passing an array structure between two different modules? If you didn't already know that, then by being shown and reading that Q&A, you just learned something new that you didn't already know.
@OlegValteriswithUkraine That seems like cheating? Virtually all of the questions in the field where you're an SME are terrible.
 
I don’t need to know every detail about everything in existence. My brain does not have enough space.
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship Interesting. I just read that the brain has enough space to hold 2.5 petabytes of information. I think you might be underestimating.
 
@CodyGray Oh, right, you also hate JS. So you are reasonable, after all.
 
11:30 AM
@CodyGray oh, I meant TypeScript :)
It's a decent tag
 
@CodyGray It’s busy with politics, images of my past memories, and mental maps.
 
"images of my past memories" is a weird way of saying "porn"
@OlegValteriswithUkraine Your freehand line-drawing capabilities have really improved.
 
this one is from a question... that is about type inference in an ORM...
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine Ooh, fun! I can guess what the question is about, based on all the D3.js questions in the Related list? Hmm, lemme see... Python?
 
@CodyGray You must be a very, very horny person. Buy hey, I’m happy you get to live out your dreams. :P
 
11:33 AM
@CodyGray see the message below :) Surely a list of questions all about D3.js are related to type inference in ORMs? Surely? Surely?
 
As a moderator on SO, my dreams are deleting your questions.
 
@CodyGray Actually, that’s fine. You are allowed to delete some of the downvoted ones.
 
Except when you flag them requesting that they be deleted. Then I am contractually obligated to decline those flags with the reason that we do not delete questions that have received answers.
 
guess what the question is about
 
Aw, sad. I’ll just flag myself with «I have been a bad boy».
Then you’re obligated to clean up.
- Daddy.
 
11:35 AM
Obligated to issue a suspension, maybe.
 
@CodyGray yeah, working in a team does wonders for freehand line-drawing skills :)
 
A disciplinary message is sufficient. Can’t go too hot. Keep it civil. We’re in the public.
@OlegValteriswithUkraine Programming.
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine now... let's imagine how the "AI" title drafting assistant will work with results like that
 
Considering that the current AI implementation can't even figure out the right language/tag, and that all of the titles it'll find in the training data are terrible, I think it's fair to assume that it'll generate a terrible title that has no relevance whatsoever to the question.
And... that'll be worse than what we have now.
But at least all the people who complained about not being able to use low-quality titles as a proxy to identify low-quality/uninteresting questions won't have a gripe!
 
indeed, I fear they are going to be much, much worse than what we have now...
 
11:38 AM
Yeah, it's unclear why people think that artificial intelligence would be better than the natural stuff.
Which we, collectively, have been training for the past 200,000 years.
 
Holy cow, I can't take it anymore - the lists of related questions apparently generated by the model are horrific. Utterly horrific.
 
Don't forget, the future is AI
 
it's official: we truly live in the worst of all possible worlds. Take that, Leibniz
 
Moooo, the future of AI is community.
 
Yeah. The future of AI is all of us cleaning up after it.
At least something in the blog post was correct, eh?
 
11:41 AM
@CodyGray The comment section, perhaps.
 
Did they have comments enabled?
Color me surprised.
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine are you effing kidding me?
 
Well, the HTML formatting of the blog post was correct; it rendered fine in my browser.
 
Well, we know one thing: the question is not about Laravel.
 
yes, it's about type unions... In TypeScript...
 
11:42 AM
Maybe if we run multiple iterations of the model in parallel, that will tell us all the things that the question is not about, and then we can aggregate those...
^^ My idea for a startup. Now give me $$$$$
 
Just had the same idea, lol.
@OlegValteriswithUkraine and this one is about type inference.
It's consistently ridiculous
 
Well, at least that one has some questions about types?
 
in Pandas... About data types... At runtime... Yes.
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine that might explain why roomba'd questions are showing up again
if they've been fucking around with ElasticSearch, that's a very probable reason for why shit's broken
 
11:49 AM
Another possibility is that it never worked properly in the first place.
 

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