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7:02 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by George M Reinstate Monica
Quite possible the esteemed CEO hasn't figured out the difference yet.. Or he thinks that fewer people won't see his posts here, and that they won't be as aware of his actions or mind them so much. Which is wrong on all counts — George M Reinstate Monica 17 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Pchandrasekar
I understand trust is something that is earned over time and through actions. By engaging here, I can better listen and communicate. As we push forward with The Loop, our moderator council, and our Tiger Team initiatives, I hope these efforts will prove useful to the community and productive in rebuilding a good working relationship. — Pchandrasekar ♦ 23 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Tiago Martins Peres
@TylerH it's actually a differentiator, the lowest score with various comments. Think it can be considered a hot topic. 🔥 — Tiago Martins Peres 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Script47
@YvetteColomb hounding I understand but down-voting? No, you can't claim that one because you don't know why people are down-voting. — Script47 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by George M Reinstate Monica
@Lewis - misunderstanding? Have you been paying any attention?? — George M Reinstate Monica 12 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Lewis
@GeorgeMReinstateMonica Yes, i have been paying attention - I said the company were putting it down to a misunderstanding - that is not my point of view. — Lewis 28 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Peter Mortensen
@gbianchi: What do you mean by "international sites"? Stack Overflow in other languages than English? Foreign language sites (e.g. German)? — Peter Mortensen 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by P.P.
@drescherjm Indeed - on the description page it seems reasonable. But stuff'ing it on to the C++ tag itself makes it look a bit desperate. — P.P. 12 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by LShaver
@Pchandrasekar what is the "Tiger Team" initiative? I don't remember seeing anything about this on the blog, and a quick Google search doesn't turn anything up. — LShaver 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Patrick Mevzek
Thanks @nvoigt to phrase out something I very much agree with and which seems completely forgotten in many recent changes.Also I would recommend everyone looking at Crocker's rules at sl4.org/crocker.html ; I think they are a far better start to build something than just lowering the bar and pampering users to feel "welcome" but just allowing them to do anything and blaming anyone that tries to put them back on track (like nowadays even downvoting a question is perceived by some as being "unwelcoming", without even considering the content of the question, which is all what matters). — Patrick Mevzek 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by JNat
The "Tiger Teams" are the cross-functional teams described in this blog post, @LShaver. Here's the general definition of the concept. — JNat ♦ 22 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by gparyani
Given that I haven't exactly held the same viewpoints held by the vast majority of the community regarding all the recent controversial events, I definitely appreciate the impartiality of this answer. — gparyani 31 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Yvette Colomb
@Script47 people are targeted for downvotes on meta - the difference is, we don't do anything about it. Occasionally these people will follow people onto main and downvote. There's a lot of downvoting on personality. Besides - As I stated, if you disagree with the mainstream meta - you are downvoted to oblivion, jumped on and cannot function. It happens all the time. Look at the most downvoted posts. Anyway, that's all I have to say on the topic. Oh and the votes on our comments speaks volumes. The community cannot handle any criticism. — Yvette Colomb 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Robert Harvey
@Pchandrasekar: I don't believe they are mutually exclusive either. But sometimes that encouragement has to come in the form of "learn the fundamentals first." The Stack Exchange platform was never designed to provide extensive teaching of the fundamentals. Nobody teaches brain surgery to a first-year med student. — Robert Harvey 21 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Script47
@YvetteColomb could it not be that your opinion is just unpopular? — Script47 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by GhostCat salutes Monica C.
I smell snarky cynicism. — GhostCat salutes Monica C. 35 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by gbianchi
@PeterMortensen SO in spanish, portuguese, japanese and russian — gbianchi 18 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Magisch
A community that feels betrayed will go out of their way to sabotage your sales and revenue. I'm a comparably junior developer, but whenever someone has asked me about my professional opinion on SE teams in the past months, which turns out was a non zero number, I won't be caught dead advocating for it. This is the reason. — Magisch 51 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Peter Mortensen
I think this is a valid question (though it could have been stated in a more direct way). The answer to a slightly differently stated question could be: "Going forward, we plan to use machine learning to create a robust job-related score, based on signals like reputations points, etc."Peter Mortensen 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by GhostCat salutes Monica C.
@JuanM Better update quickly. Because this awfully sounds like: "we intend to invest in the community ... by having more volunteers doing all the pesky work". This is really crucial here: when asked about CMs, to come back and talk about "more moderators", that is really ... not good. — GhostCat salutes Monica C. 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Peter Mortensen
I think this is a valid question (though it could have been stated in a more direct way). The answer to a slightly differently stated question could be: "Going forward, we plan to use machine learning to create a robust job-related score, based on signals like reputations points, grammar/spelling error rate, post length, question-to-answer ratio, and feedback from recruiters. This will improve companies' ability to find candidates through Jobs."Peter Mortensen 21 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Robert Harvey
That's a great video. Hopefully everyone who sees your post has the 20 minutes to view it. — Robert Harvey 44 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by gbianchi
@PeterMortensen maybe localized were a better wording... — gbianchi 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
@leonheess I firmly believe so, yes. However, Martijn's instincts apparently told him something different. That's bound to happen when you have humans as moderators; we're not all created equal. We are discussing it internally, and will let you know what the conclusion is. Sorry for the confusion that this created. — Cody Gray ♦ 59 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Robert Harvey
OK, stop asking for apologies. An apology and a couple of dollars will buy me a cup of coffee, and that's all it will do. — Robert Harvey 51 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Lucas Trzesniewski
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Anatoly Wein
-17 downvotes? Let me delete the topic before more will come. That's how SO is.. @deceze In your opinion off-topic in mine not. — Anatoly Wein 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by user2943160
More questions require more answers. — user2943160 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Robert Harvey
And no, this isn't elitist, unwelcoming or any other sort of -ism; it's simply the practical reality. — Robert Harvey just now
[ Boson ] New comment posted by JNat
I'm removing the discussion following @YvetteColomb 's comment, as it's starting to become tangential to the original question. I'd invite you to post your original thoughts as an answer, Yvette, as the discussion in the comments there can be more extensive. — JNat ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by GhostCat salutes Monica C.
Quora has moderation. It is just unpredictable to a large degree, and totally intransparent. The only thing they do better than SO is that you get a notification any time one of your posts gets deleted. — GhostCat salutes Monica C. 57 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Peter Mortensen
Re "Everyone of us is here to solve a programming problem": Some (the majority?) are here thinking they are on a forum, at a helpdesk, or at a bootcamp (asking the instructors any question). The question interface does nothing to dispel that expectation. — Peter Mortensen 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by bolov
@JD-Stack "We're checking whether this policy still applies" well if you reach the conclusion the policy doesn't apply and the QT logo will appear on the C++ tag that will be really disingenuous and misleading to the site's users. — bolov 44 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by user560822
Obviously it's too early to say whether it's data or noise, but your first graph seems to show big changes in the second half of 2019. — user560822 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Nick Craver
@gbianchi Speaking specifically about international sites (I'm not directly involved here - just chiming in on the technical aspect) - they would at the very least need additional thought beyond other communities. There are 2 additional issues involved: 1) much more overlap with question duplication, and 2) showing 2 different user-generated (language-specific) contents in the same chrome/page. For example: is the chrome of the site in English? Other? Just links? AFAIK nothing is set, but a lot of ideas on how to better expose that these communities and content exist is what's in progress. — Nick Craver ♦ 36 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by meriton
I'd define experts as users who have written thousands of upvoted answers. Such users are contributing much more to the site that a hobbyist asking a few questions, but this group of users is being marginalized to the point many of us are leaving. I for one have stopped contributing to stackoverflow three months ago. I was a member for 10 years, wrote 1161 answers, received over 5000 upvotes, and helped 5.8 million people. — meriton 34 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by user560822
@PeterMortensen Indeed. They've created SEs for so many stupid things that are completely unrelated to programming, but they won't open SEs for extremely popular yet off-topic subjects like requests for library recommendations (no, Software Recs does not fill that role) or links to external sources (research, etc.) — user560822 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Script47
@JNat then why not remove YvetteColomb's original comment as its not really related either? Surely if responses countering hers are not related then so is her original point. — Script47 27 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by user560822
@RobertoCaboni Do people even care about rep? Gamification is so 2017. — user560822 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by gdoron is supporting Monica
@RobertHarvey, I taught each one of my sons to say sorry every time they misbehave. There is no shame at admitting of wrong doing, it's human. And most importantly, unless you actually acknowledge your misdeeds it's 100% likely you'll repeat them. And if you wish a Scripture bit: King Saul had 2 very very minor sins and God took away his kingship while King David that had 2 horrible sins (sleeping with a married woman and causing her husband to die in war) kept his Kingship. Why? Because King David immediately owned his mistake I have sinned against the LORD while King Saul made excuses. — gdoron is supporting Monica 28 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Zev Spitz
Apparently there was some internal discussion as to whether to post on MSO or MSE; kudos to Juan M for posting on MSE, but I get the impression it wasn't his decision alone. — Zev Spitz 46 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by tukan
@GeoffGriswald you won't see effect of such exodus in such a short time span. In long term you will see the steady quality decline - the competition never sleeps. 10-15 years of current rate, which is improbable. Exodus has tendency to speed-up. — tukan 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Pekka
Prediction: there will not be an honest answer to this. — Pekka 18 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Robert Harvey
This is what an apology gets you. — Robert Harvey 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Félix Gagnon-Grenier
I would echo Script's feeling here. It feels quite a bit like a single way road, to let the original comment and its assertions stand unchallenged while single handedly removing any view that would argue differently. Hopefully Yvette will answer. — Félix Gagnon-Grenier 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Pekka
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Roberto Caboni
@user560822 I rep is really important for people having >100k rep. But is quite important for new users, because of the way (that I personally like very much) in which tag points actually build some sort of certified CV. — Roberto Caboni 51 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Robert Harvey
The surest way to repel different opinions is to crack down on said opinions, under the guise of maintaining civility. — Robert Harvey 48 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by gdoron is supporting Monica
@RobertHarvey I literally loled. I agree this is what an "apology" will get you. It doesn't really invalidates my point, acknowledging wrongdoings is an essential first step. — gdoron is supporting Monica 57 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cindy Meister
How much (if at all) SO rep influences getting a job depends a lot on who's doing the hiring and how much they personally value the number. What would be more important would be to be able to point to high quality contributions in a tag relevant to the job for which you're applying. And for that it doesn't matter what your rep is here or where (what Internet site) you made those contributions. — Cindy Meister 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Pekka
... not because Prashanth is a liar, necessarily - but because there can only be one main "why", one Telos, and we already know what that is, and neither Prashanth nor anyone else has the power to change this — Pekka 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Victor Stafusa
"One specific recommendation I will make is that you go to Shog9 with your hat in your hand and ask him to come back to consult on, and if it works out, direct the community strategy and communications for your company." - Except if you have insider priviledged non-public information, we don't know how or why Shog9 was fired, and thus, we don't know if this is a reasonable request. So, you might rework a few text details here in light of that. — Victor Stafusa 57 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Félix Gagnon-Grenier
Seeing how it took approx. 4.93726 seconds for me to get back at presuming bad intent over a meta comments discussion, I'll still have to also voice Yvette's point, to a degree here. Gods is the medium easy to get all pumped up over. — Félix Gagnon-Grenier 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Martijn Pieters
There are not that many moderators on Stack Overflow, to make a 'trend'. There currently are 20 moderators. 4 moderators have resigned in the past few months. — Martijn Pieters ♦ 15 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by psubsee2003
Not sure if the right fields are exposed in the Stack Exchange Data Explorer dumps but if so, you can probably get that info there — psubsee2003 22 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Robert Harvey
@Pekka: That's very amusing, but consider this perspective: the current stack exchange administration might genuinely not get it. Ergo, the need for a study. "Well, I could explain it better, but I’d need charts and graphs and an easel." — Robert Harvey just now
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Roberto Caboni
@user560822 IMHO rep is not really important for people having >100k rep (not anymore). But it is quite important for new users, because of the way (that I personally like very much) in which tag points actually build some sort of certified CV. — Roberto Caboni 28 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Bryan Krause
The moderator resignations have impacted the non-SO sites more; some of those sites are now down to 0 or 1 moderator. Most of the ~500 moderators are not SO moderators. — Bryan Krause 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Kevin B
@FélixGagnon-Grenier Because any comments in response would be... well, no longer needed, not useful, not constructive, etc, the only real option is to ask a separate question. — Kevin B 7 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Martijn Pieters
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Félix Gagnon-Grenier
So, until Yvette's comment gets to be an answer, I would only ask this: how, instead of downvoting, should one express disagreement to a viewpoint, in a way that would not simply render voting useless (eg, if upvoting is allowed but downvoting must be replaced with commentating)? — Félix Gagnon-Grenier 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Pekka
@RobertHarvey I may be wrong - but I can't see how it could be possible they don't know exactly what they are doing. The administration still largely consists of the same people that were firmly at the helm back in October. — Pekka 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Martijn Pieters
Next, some of those 20 remaining are currently (for various personal reasons, none of which have anything to do with current events) indicating they are on vacation. This is just an indication that they expect their flag handling output to be low at the moment, and a perfectly normal thing to do. But among those that are active we get the flag queue to very low digits almost daily. — Martijn Pieters ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Kevin B
I recall there being a chart for SO mods that listed both current and past mods in a format where it'd be easy to see how many where active at any given time period — Kevin B 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Robert Harvey
@Pekka: I don't think the people with that knowledge are calling the shots anymore. — Robert Harvey 24 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Victor Stafusa
Well, the Monica case happened shortly before him joined the company, so it is probably not his fault. — Victor Stafusa 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Aaron Hall
@VictorStafusa I have known the actors here for a very long time. My analysis is based on the mozaic of information (immaterial non-public and material public) that I have, and it is as complete as I wish to make it given my limited time and energy. — Aaron Hall ♦ 38 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Magisch
@VictorStafusa I don't have insider information, but I would put money on the fact that shog did nothing wrong in that situation and that management just made a (fundamental, deeply damaging, natch) mistake in letting him go. In fact, quite a few of us have put money on our trust of shog, as the literally 10.000$ gofundme campaign we raised shows. — Magisch 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Victor Stafusa
@Magisch Yes, he probably didn't nothing wrong. In fact I think that it was more likely because he standed a personal decision in doing it right and refused an order to do something wrong. But we really don't know. — Victor Stafusa 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Pekka
@RobertHarvey I am confident the people who are calling the shots know what they want to know... and nothing in this post will change any of that one iota — Pekka 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Magisch
@VictorStafusa I'm fine with the egg on my face in case I'm wrong, and i'm pretty sure Aaron is too. — Magisch 37 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Sébastien Renauld
@JNat Why is this "tiger team" operating behind closed doors, why has nobody said they have been contacted for further precisions/clarifications (I've done things like this in the past. Feedback is never clear enough that you are fine with the original version), and why should we trust a process operating behind closed doors for anything? The last closed doors process saw two respected, esteemed CMs get fired. — Sébastien Renauld 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Vaccano
@MartijnPieters - I had no idea of the numbers. I guess I need to read the posts closer. It seemed that back at the time that Monica got fired there was a "wave of moderator resignations" and now there was another. I seemed to recall hearing about more in between. I assumed that, to be losing so many, there had to be a bunch to start with. But I am now realizing that most of those were from non Stack Overflow sites. (It is encouraging to know that Stack Overflow still has sufficient moderation) — Vaccano 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Martijn Pieters
@Vaccano: across the Stack Exchange network there are currently some 540 moderators. But most of these are moderators of a single site. Most resignations were for moderators from other sites. — Martijn Pieters ♦ 11 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by gdoron is supporting Monica
@Pekka since when did you became a socialist? There is absolutely no problem whatsoever in making money and being "for-profit" company. Not Steve Jobs nor Tim Pool built and operated Apple out of pure altruistic motivations. I just wish Stack Exchange Inc. will understand they actually hurting their business and brand. I'm a strong advocate against the website I devoted thousands of hours for, maybe even more than League of Legends 😉. — gdoron is supporting Monica 54 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Makoto
On Stack Overflow, @Lundin? Bull. If you're talking about your pronouns on Stack Overflow, you're already discussing something off-topic here. — Makoto 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Lundin
The amount of new sign ups can most likely be explained about people fearing to post their opinions using their main account, given the extensive censorship and that whole pronoun debacle. — Lundin 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Pekka
@gdoron There is absolutely no problem whatsoever in making money and being "for-profit" company. I never said there was. The problem arises when you have massive VC interests pressuring for exponential growth, when that growth conflicts with what used to be your original goal. — Pekka 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Lundin
...see how long it took before I expressed that opinion, for example. Already someone cursing at me. — Lundin 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Makoto
@Lundin: Mostly because I had thought that this was a settled matter even if it left a backdoor open for picking a fight with a mod. I'm cursing the very thought of this being a thing in this capacity - especially since we now have the ability/power to edit those out of technical questions as if they are noise. I mean you no offense. — Makoto 54 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by gdoron is supporting Monica
@jnat you only kept one (and unpopular) opinion. That's not fair. In fact, these kind of actions are the reasons we are where we are. The rules should apply to everyone. It's ridiculous that just one opinion is on-topic. Please understand that. — gdoron is supporting Monica 59 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by JBis
@JohnDvorak Really great point. Totally agree. — JBis 58 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by John Dvorak
Also, certain bots that live in chat are integral to the site proper functioning correctly. An actual chat API would be a nice gift to those hard-working pieces of code. — John Dvorak 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by meriton
Having never used chat, and not seeing a reason to, I don't see this as a priority. — meriton 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by JBis
@DavidPostill I know those extensions exist however an official dark theme would be nice. Not just for chat but in general. — JBis 19 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Peter Mortensen
@Robert Harvey: But perhaps it is time to extend the platform with a teaching aspect? — Peter Mortensen 47 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by gdoron is supporting Monica
@pekka, I totally agree. Their mistake was trying to bake it all into one company and product. They could have let SE Q&A stay as it is, and focus on Jobs or compete with Pluralsight or LinkedIn or 14784 other things. For some reason which I honestly hands down can't understand they decided to move on AND burning everything including their brand and employees. — gdoron is supporting Monica 57 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Vaccano
@MartijnPieters - In thinking about this, I am very surprised that a huge site like Stack Overflow can be moderated by 20-25 people. That is amazing. (Both that it is possible and that our current moderators pull it off.) — Vaccano 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by DavidPostill
PorkChat - "Dark theme - a light-on-dark theme with optional fixed-width font" (chrome and Firefox version available). — DavidPostill 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Robert Harvey
@PeterMortensen: Sure. Just don't pretend that the existing platform supports this in any way, shape or form, or expect that some small tweaks would get it done. it would take a major undertaking to do it right, and there's already been one failed attempt.Robert Harvey 27 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Adrian Mole
@Vaccano That's because all the mods here on SO are amazing - as they are on other sites in the network! 😊‎ — Adrian Mole 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Pekka
@gdoron it looks like they thought they could move on without those employees and the invested users and all the difficult problems of actual dialogue. The cynical part of my brain (very small compared to the naive idealistic one, despite how I've sounded on Meta lately) thinks that maybe recently they started to realize they need the community and moderators after all, for the free moderation & curation work, so now there is an interest in making it look like they care about people here and what they think. — Pekka 48 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Jon Clements
@Martijn forgotten the poor lil' pup already hey? :p — Jon Clements 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Peter Mortensen
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Félix Gagnon-Grenier
A question that comes to mind about this is: How, instead of downvoting, should one express disagreement to a viewpoint, in a way that would not simply render voting useless (eg, if upvoting is allowed but downvoting must be replaced with commentating). — Félix Gagnon-Grenier 34 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by user56reinstatemonica8
@C8H10 this post adds a heck of a lot, in that it gives people a space to post questions and responses that the CEO is in many cases actually responding to. That's one of the closest things to positive dialogue and progress we've seen for months. — user56reinstatemonica8 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Kevin B
If it's a question, by answering. If it's an answer, by providing a counter answer (that addresses the question, not the answer). If it's a comment, by providing a counter comment (that, once again, addresses the post not the previous comment) — Kevin B 23 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by JBis
@meriton Come join us :) — JBis 38 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by meriton
This has not been my experience. Can you be more specific about the "flack", "hounded" and what you consider "mainstream meta"? — meriton 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Félix Gagnon-Grenier
@meriton I believe "flack" and "hounding" refers to the high amount of comments, downvotes, chat replies, and generally highly engaged (and engaging) content one is submitted to when answering an opinion that goes counter to the meta current on high profile questions. The emotional influence those can have on a human is not to be underestimated. — Félix Gagnon-Grenier 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by JBis
A couple more comments on this post and it may have to be moved to chat! — JBis 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Kevin B
This kind of thinking however is often (ab)used to discredit people who disagree with them. It's indefensible, since any differing opinion can be easily painted as just attacking them for who or what they are. It is a defense of echo chambers. — Kevin B 9 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Pekka
Look, can we forget about that crucial employee kicked out without any send-off or severance pay? That was already a week ago, let's not dwell on the past. Let's focus on what is really important: what is the absolute minimum we have to do to stop more mods from resigning? — Pekka 27 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Félix Gagnon-Grenier
I believe "mainstream meta" to be whatever highest voted content is present on a specific topic. — Félix Gagnon-Grenier 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by meriton
You mean disagreement? And the volume of such? Personally, I am not offended if people disagree with me, but if this is a problem for you, what solution do you propose? Are you asking for new site features that aggregate feedback on meta? — meriton 12 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Catija
@nvoigt Overlap, yes, but they aren't exclusive and, as one can learn to program, one can learn to write questions or answers - sometimes you just need some help. For whatever reason you care to accept, even if only by reputation and not reality, many very talented developers are afraid to write answers here. I've talked with several of them. So, as long as that reputation remains, we are poorer as a reference because we lack their potentially excellent contributions. I believe that helping both askers and answerers to succeed from the start are good things to work on. — Catija ♦ 37 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Pedro
Trolls do not own c++, but this has not stopped them from trolling the soulless minions of orthodoxy. — Pedro 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Pchandrasekar
Hey George - for a long time we have said that our mission is to "help developers write the script of the future." This continues to be true. Recently we have begun to say our mission is to help developers AND technical workers write the script of the future, reflecting the increasing diversity of knowledge being shared across our network. To accomplish this goal, we need to have a healthy, growing business and community. The blog post I shared today is a good articulation of how we plan to move forward in 2020 to fulfill this mission and support our users, customers, and community. — Pchandrasekar ♦ 52 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Catija
So, when we listen to the community, we are also working to listen to the people who want to participate but are afraid or confused... either they tried and failed and don't understand why, or they tried and got nothing in response, only silence, so they don't feel like their work was appreciated. And, to be clear, I believe the engaged meta community has long been asking for improvements to question asking and answering guidance so there's not necessarily a disagreement there. But talking to people who have failed is a good way to know how to improve things for them or people like them. — Catija ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by canon
@Pchandrasekar "help developers write the script of the future" That doesn't sound familiar. — canon 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Script47
@Pchandrasekar 'for a long time we have said that our mission is to "help developers write the script of the future."' - WHO has EVER said that?! Your own tour states: 'With your help, we're working together to build a library of detailed answers to every question about programming.' — Script47 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Kevin B
well, i mean, the most obvious, at least to me, thing that is absolutely the most important is to use terms/phrases in your title that people who will in the future have the same question will use in their search. that is already covered in the question you listed... so... what exactly are you asking? — Kevin B 14 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Kevin B
That would be unfortunate, considering 99% of all comments moved to chat result in an ended conversation — Kevin B 18 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by JBis
@KevinB Maybe on StackOverflow, but my experience has been the complete opposite on other network sites. — JBis 29 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cindy Meister
Thing is, this topic has nothing to do with the Question at the top of the page. The point is off-topic in this "thread", which may well be why those comments were deleted. It may well be a discussion worth having (I did see the original comments...), but not here IMO. — Cindy Meister 23 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Félix Gagnon-Grenier
Heh, I don't know, but whatever "better aggregate feedback on meta" means, the headline is awesome, I vote for that. — Félix Gagnon-Grenier 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by gdoron is supporting Monica
@Pchandrasekar The blog post I shared today is a good articulation of how we plan to move forward no offence, but it's not a good articulation, it's PR, and not even a good PR. There is a huge amount of hostility against your company, you avoided speaking for months, and the only thing you actually did share is a blog with buzzwords that seems like the SEO team combined with the marketing team has written for you. I'm sorry Sir, you'll need a lot more to regain the respect and trust you once had. Advice: Ask Jeff Atwood for some advices. — gdoron is supporting Monica 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by dustytrash
Do you mean people answering their own questions? — dustytrash 33 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Script47
@gdoronissupportingMonica but to "them" Jeff is the wrong sort of leader, he cared about the goal and not the clicks/no. of users so much. — Script47 15 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Roberto Caboni
Thanks for the answer. I don't know who did downvote but I appreciate your advice. Some questions: what is "searchception"? Should titles contain "how to"? Do the order of the wors used in title matter? — Roberto Caboni 38 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Erik A
This is answered in How to Ask. A good title, as described there, is SEO friendly — Erik A 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Robert Harvey
S E A R C H C E P T I O N is a word-play on the movie Inception. A dream within a dream. — Robert Harvey 5 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Robert Harvey
The order of the words should be the same order as when an ordinary question is asked. — Robert Harvey 21 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Robert Harvey
"How to" is problematic only in the sense that the Stack Overflow community doesn't particularly care for "How to" questions. They prefer that users try to first solve the problem themselves, and then ask on Stack Overflow when they get stuck. — Robert Harvey 55 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Zev Spitz
@Pekka I would suggest that there's a common theme here: the engaged community needs to be able to trust the company. The PR strategy violates that trust, as do ignored requests for better curation tools or improvements to the new user experience. The company's treatment of a long-standing employee also violates that trust. — Zev Spitz 9 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by jscs
The use of chat to hide important comments is not a point in favor of having or improving chat. — jscs 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by SecretAgentMan
Brilliant. (+1) — SecretAgentMan 24 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by mxmissile
omg down-voting is NOT harassment or abusive, humans need adult the F up geez and stop crying for attention like that — mxmissile 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Pekka
@PChandrasekar help developers write the script of the future is a good marketing slogan (I mean this without snark) but it is not a good "why" in the above sense. One such "why" for the site used to be "to build the best and most up-to-date library of programming questions and answers on the planet, accessible for free to everyone with Internet and a computer". That's the kind of "why?" that can inspire well-paid professionals to voluntarily give up significant chunks of their time, for free, because they feel they are making a small contribution to making the world a slightly better place — Pekka 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by P.P.
@user56reinstatemonica8 That's true. But the "responses" so far don't inspire great confidence that concerns of the community (especially over the last few months) are going to be addressed in any real way; it's mostly 'your call is important to us' talk... — P.P. 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Peter Mortensen
I don't think you can actually trust what you find on Stack Overflow. The collaborative editing / updating of content never took off (due to reputation points envy, how the system was designed, and other factors). Bad content survives and get upvotes if it can survive the first few hours (where the attention is) - there is only attention on new questions. — Peter Mortensen 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dalija Prasnikar
@Magisch And add another egg for me... — Dalija Prasnikar 8 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Peter Mortensen
I don't think you can actually trust what you find on Stack Overflow. The envisioned collaborative editing / updating of content never took off (due to reputation points envy, how the system was designed, and other factors). It is essentially forum posts with slightly better grammar, spelling, and signal-to-noise). Bad content survives and get upvotes if it can survive the first few hours (where the attention is) - there is only attention on new questions. — Peter Mortensen 55 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by JBis
@jscs Regardless of whether you agree with that feature (if not maybe create another meta post), it is showing that chat is used and relevant. That, in it self, is a reason for improving chat. — JBis 13 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by scohe001
See here for MSO vs MSE and here for merging sites. — scohe001 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Renan
@YaakovEllis if you would abstain from mentioning those arguments because that would lead to hurt, well, that ship has already sailed. — Renan 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Pekka
@PChandrasekar Now you may want to respond that, yes, that is still your "why", of course, but it is not really true any more in any meaningful sense, a new, more elusive "why" seems to have replaced it. This already started happening long before you came on board... but your kicking THE most community-trusted and respected employee who still represented this "why" to the curb with what from the outside can only be interpreted as absolute callousness strongly suggests there is no renewed desire to revive it; quite the contrary. — Pekka 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Victor Stafusa
That comment just looks like as a ressentment for not having the expected/desired feedback/effect on meta and using that to cast it as an imaginary enemy with a made up excuse that it was harassment. And as someone who already was massively downvoted in meta, I still disagree with that comment. — Victor Stafusa 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Kevin B
i mean, posting it on meta would indicate the opposite, that it cares more about it's small communities rather than the one that "brings home the bacon" so to speak. you can't please everyone. — Kevin B 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Kevin B
I reaaaaaaly doubt that's in any way in consideration at this time. — Kevin B 36 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Yaakov Ellis
@Renan I will not avoid a discussion solely because it will raise tough questions (please see my lowest voted answer on this site if you want proof). I will avoid it if the discussion itself will not add anything positive. I also have to ration my time and energy among many different things. I have said my piece here, am not going to invest more. Too many other bugs to fix. — Yaakov Ellis ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Renan
@KevinB I believe MSO gets the better treatment because it generates more revenue too. I just want to know whether or not other sites are going to get axed at some point. — Renan 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Yaakov Ellis
For all those who are not familiar with the phrase, help developers to "write the script of/for the future" and its association with Stack Overflow, I suggest that you try Googling "write the script for the future spolsky". This has been a company goal/mission statement for over three years. — Yaakov Ellis ♦ 28 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Renan
@KevinB I would like to have that doubt, but the firing of Robert Cartaino just a few days ago, coupled with this blog post now, seems to indicate otherwise. — Renan 52 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Keith Thompson
I was about to accept this answer, but it says "You should see a non-blurry logo appear next to the C++ tag." In fact you shouldn't see a logo at all. And in fact you don't. The problem has been fixed (thanks for that), but neither answer describes the actual solution. — Keith Thompson 23 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Kevin B
That was unfortunate... but i wouldn't jump to such dire conclusions without more evidence. — Kevin B 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cindy Meister
Https://meta.stackoverflow.com/a/393156 seems to have already asked this and gotten an answer from the CEO. — Cindy Meister 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Kevin B
the #'s are also important... considering the stats they gave originally on what the percentage was of negative comments vs good ones.. cutting that number in half isn't all that crazy. Making the flag icon more visible alone likely attributed to most of that. — Kevin B 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Robert Harvey
@PeterMortensen: As someone searching for an answer to a programming question, it's better to start from the perspective of a Google search. For example, this one, which yields this as the fifth search result. Granted, it's just a simple example, but in my experience, results from Google searches usually yield pretty good results from Stack Overflow. — Robert Harvey 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by user560822
@RobertoCaboni I've always thought that a developer's SO profile should count for a lot in the hiring process - much more than a worthless sheepskin. But it never really did, and it's even less likely to in the future. — user560822 11 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by scohe001
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Zev Spitz
@Pchandrasekar [W]e do not believe that welcoming, teaching, and empowering new generations of beginners is mutually exclusive with building a quality archive. Won't these two goals inevitably conflict? A "quality archive" requires some minimum standard of quality, which means some contributions will be rejected; those contributors are liable to feel unwelcome. And the poor beginner now has to manage a double learning load -- both learning the new skill in question, and learning how to meet the standards of quality; the higher likelihood of failure is invariably not empowering. ... — Zev Spitz 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Andrew Morton
@scohe001 Has the problem only been added to SO today? — Andrew Morton just now
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Zev Spitz
... Isn't the only possible resolution for this conflict, to make crystal clear this vision of a quality archive, to manage beginners' expectations? — Zev Spitz 55 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Peter Mortensen
Quora has lots of moderation. It is 100% opaque (and no ways of appeal), with paid moderators, and low quality (likely due to it being low-wage jobs). Quora is also ... less focused in its scope. — Peter Mortensen 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by scohe001
I'm not sure, but that MSE link shows it happening on Aviation a week ago, so I'd think it'd be across the whole network. — scohe001 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Vaccano
I will agree that I have not/would not push Stack Exchange for Teams in part because of what you said. However, I acknowledge that what the Meta users think of as "The Community" is actually a very small part of the SO user base, so the impact of this is probably small to SE. (Though I am a normal user that recently got educated, so there may be more of "me" out there.) — Vaccano 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Andrew Morton
That could be fitting, with a new coronavirus spreading through aviation passengers. Let's hope it's brought under control soon. — Andrew Morton 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Vaccano
I love that we are getting communication. It is overdue, but welcome. I hope that in the future your trust of us grows such that you do not have to be so guarded in your words. — Vaccano 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by scohe001
Heh. Also after a little more searching, it seems this was actually brought up on MSO a few days ago: Response tab UI seems broken?scohe001 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Peter Mortensen
Quora has lots of moderation. It is 100% opaque (and no appeal), done by paid persons, and low quality (likely due to low wage). Quora is also ... less focused in its scope (which on one hand lowers the required moderation as there aren't any limits to the silliness, but on the other require moderation on (politically) charged subjects). — Peter Mortensen 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Andrew Morton
I guess I should blame caching for not seeing it sooner. Six days without a fix so far; maybe they haven't seen the posts reporting it yet and another one will make it more visible. — Andrew Morton 8 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Peter Mortensen
Paid answers (even with imaginary Internet points) and paid moderation haven't worked very well anywhere so far. — Peter Mortensen 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Script47
@YaakovEllis after some Googling, it seems that that phrase didn't seem to make it onto meta or main? Only YT videos and external blogs. Was it not more of a tagline for the public? — Script47 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Robert Harvey
I have to confess, this is the first time I've ever heard the phrase "writing the script of the future" used in a Stack Exchange context. And I have to say, I'm not a fan, despite the clever play on words. What does it say, really? Aren't we all "writing the script of the future," in the sense that we are living on this earth and making our mark in whatever way we best can? If you like that phrase, you must certainly love phrases like "strategic initiatives that provide value-added propositions to our stakeholders," a similarly flowery (and equally meaningless) affectation. — Robert Harvey 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Robert Harvey
Perhaps "With your help, we're working together to build a library of detailed answers to every question about programming." isn't as inspirational or sound-bite quotable, but it has the virtue of actually meaning something specific and actionable. — Robert Harvey 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Peter Mortensen
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Peter Mortensen
@Robert Harvey: It is probably a play on Joel Spolsky's catch phrase "Developers are writing the script for the future." (he could be quoting someone else, I have to check my references), used in many public presentation in the last 2-3 years. Sample (recorded 2018-10-01). — Peter Mortensen 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Peter Mortensen
@Robert Harvey: It is probably a play on Joel Spolsky's catch phrase "Developers are writing the script for the future." (he could be quoting someone else, I have to check my references), used in many public presentation in the last 2-3 years. Sample 1 (recorded 2018-10-01). Sample 2 (published on YouTube 2019-01-14). — Peter Mortensen 14 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by forresthopkinsa
I don't read this answer as saying that being welcoming isn't a priority; I read it as suggesting that it's a secondary priority to professional, correct answers to on-topic questions. — forresthopkinsa 7 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Peter Mortensen
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Robert Grant
@Vaccano this isn't communication, but it's fine. Standard new CEO stuff. Entirely unpredictive as to what the future will bring. — Robert Grant 55 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Aaron Hall
@Vaccano on the other hand, many of the "casual" users of Stack Overflow don't even remember its name. I couldn't count how many times I've seen people with a Stack Overflow answer up on their screen and I've said, "Oh, you use Stack Overflow?" and they looked at me like they had never heard of it - and when I dug deeper, they had just got there from a Google search, and while they had seen the site many times, they never realized the name of the site was "Stack Overflow". — Aaron Hall ♦ 12 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Michael Berry
@YaakovEllis I've done that, I'm getting a lot of talks and blog posts from Joel with that phrase, but nothing directly to do with SO. If it's been a company goal & mission statement for the last 3 years, you must be able to link to it at least somewhere on SO surely? — Michael Berry 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Zev Spitz
@PeterMortensen Paid answers (even with imaginary Internet points) ... haven't worked well anywhere. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the Stack Exchange network appears to have been quite successful in it's original mission of creating a high-quality knowledge repository (at least until 2014 or so) by paying with imaginary Internet points. — Zev Spitz 18 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by BalinKingOfMoria
@RobertHarvey That is my main gripe as well: “writing the script for the future,” independent of whatever context Joel’s talks might imbue it with, is meaningless. — BalinKingOfMoria 22 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by BalinKingOfMoria
+1 This exactly. Several years ago, back when I was mew — BalinKingOfMoria 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by BalinKingOfMoria
I understand that treating everyone with kid gloves means more users means more ad revenue, etc etc. I get that SO is a company and needs — BalinKingOfMoria 11 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
Alternatively, I'd like to know what the moderators could have done differently in order to address the inevitable issues that come from having a textbox on the Internet to make Meta into a usable venue for feedback and discussion. — Cody Gray ♦ 48 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by BalinKingOfMoria
And I am by no means saying SO is perfect in every way, or that it should be actively mean and user-hostile - not at all. Rather, I just think that SO should not give up on quality, both for questions and answers, since that’s the secret sauce in the first place. — BalinKingOfMoria 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
I couldn't care less about chat being improved. This is a Q&A site: let's focus on doing Q&A the best way we can. Chat works well enough for what it is: an ancillary adjunct to Q&A. I don't want to spend any more developer time on it, short of ensuring it is minimally functional. The mobile chat site works very well for me; I use it more often on mobile than anywhere else. — Cody Gray ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by BalinKingOfMoria
Beginner-friendliness is amazing, full stop. But the minute quality starts suffering as a result, it destroys the reason beginners want to come to SO in the first place. — BalinKingOfMoria 9 secs ago
 

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