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8:00 PM
@JanDvorak a generic interface for contextful computations
 
Mutation, and builders, and monads, seem like fairly simple patterns.
 
@BartekBanachewicz so I take it your Eifel is great :D
 
OK, I understood the 'state monad'
 
@BartekBanachewicz PHP is open source and I know many people who don't know PHP :D
 
Weird patterns, but the implementations are all pretty straight-forward.
 
8:00 PM
PHP is a retarded piece of crap though
 
@BartekBanachewicz Not sure that definition is possible to understand
 
@ssube they are, but they can be confusing to grasp (not unlike async IO, or purity) if you haven't actually written relevant code.
 
I still worry about the number of allocations they cause, though.
 
@JanDvorak what?
 
@BartekBanachewicz When I'll be able to sanely run C# on Linux, I'll bother learning it in-depth
 
8:00 PM
@BartekBanachewicz I don't think so, there are things PHP is quite good at.
 
Right now, enough knowledge to help my brother in his high-school class is enough for me.
 
@SecondRikudo yeah that's basically the point of opening .NET
 
@BartekBanachewicz We aren't quite there yet.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum either you stop right now or I'm leaving the room
I don't feel like talking about shit today
 
@BartekBanachewicz bye.
 
8:01 PM
no php
no perl
no rubby
let's forget all of the crappy technologies exist for a while.
 
You don't know php, you don't know perl and you don't know ruby. You just like dissing languages 'cool kids' told you suck.
 
it's soothing.
@BenjaminGruenbaum that's fucking bullshit and you know that
 
I suggest you stop doing that, it's not a very graceful thing to do.
Unless you're trolling all the php-internals people in the php room - dissing the language they're working on in their room can be pretty hilarious.
 
it's also not very graceful to use your hypothetical authority to guesswork my reasons for hating those in a particularly terrible way
 
@BartekBanachewicz no offense, but if you can't argue something without cussing at it like it offended you personally, then just don't talk. Give good reasons, or don't join the conversation.
 
8:03 PM
do we have to argue php shittiness every time
every single fucking time?
 
What authority? What guesswork?
 
I mean come fucking on.
 
Perl is fantastic, if you need to defy space-time causality.
 
There are people here who know Lisp. And Haskell.
 
You're arguing that languages you've never pushed to production suck but haven't raised a single argument.
 
8:03 PM
Ruby is good for something, probably.
 
And other good languages.
 
Hey everyone, stop disagreeing with my opinion here, or I'm going to leave the room
 
Why do we have to waste time on shit.
 
To be fair, you were the one who criticized PHP after I spoke of it being open sourced
 
Could everyone please calm the fuck down? Thank you
 
8:04 PM
^
 
So ipso facto, you started the very argument you want ended
 
If you don't have something constructive to say about PHP, just don't say it - you started discussing it :P
 
you're right, the blame is all mine.
 
I don't like PHP, but I wouldn't call it horrible.
 
8:04 PM
@Retsam I think that's overreacting a bit. Bye.
 
Okey, so we stop talking about php.
deal?
 
There is no blame, it's just a damn conversation.
 
So perl
 
8:05 PM
I wrote a perl/awk/grep one-liner the other day, and was very proud of myself.
 
Perl is old, but I hear it's still useful/used?
 
Perl 6 is coming out. That's interesting. Larry Wall sounds like a swell guy in his lectures.
 
It parsed those logs real good.
 
Dunno much about it
 
@SecondRikudo sure
> One consequence of this is that Perl is not a tidy language. It includes many features, tolerates exceptions to its rules, and employs heuristics to resolve syntactical ambiguities.
 
8:05 PM
I would not use perl for anything today to be honest - ever since I learned Python...
 
and consequently
> Perl's function documentation remarks on the variant behavior of built-in functions in list and scalar contexts by saying, "In general, they do what you want, unless you want consistency
 
I still think that the best argument against Perl is Stevey's rant about it.
 
I think this ultimately breaks one of the most fundamental rules of designing a good PL
Perl is broken by design, IMHO.
or rather, it's broken if you choose to treat it as a GP PL
 
GP PL?
 
8:07 PM
General-Purpose Programming Language
 
General purpose programming language.
 
The only time I'd use perl anymore is a drop-in for a bash script. Still really easy to execute arbitrary commands (backtick) but much less of a nightmare than bash.
 
ninja'd.
 
hihi
I mean, people write web frameworks for it
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum With (acceptably recent) Python being packed with CentOS, we've really started to go that route at work.
 
8:08 PM
Ruby can escape to shell as well...
 
@BartekBanachewicz Bugzilla is a surprisingly good piece of software
 
@ssube I don't think so.
 
@JanDvorak Ah; I should probably get around to learning Ruby eventually.
 
I've used it multiple times and I consider it one of the worst trackers out there
 
It scales way better than most of the newer trackers.
 
8:09 PM
@ssube Python is a pretty decent scripting language - I don't see why I'd want to use anything else for automation.
We use Jira and we're pretty happy.
 
@ssube if by scales you mean it's awfully slow even if it's empty
 
@Retsam way more readable than Perl
 
I don't hate Ruby. I think it's a decent language. I'm not a fan of rails though.
 
Still, one could argue that ruby isn't a proper PL either
 
@BartekBanachewicz It soundly beats Trac and Youtrack. Jira... is an atlassian produc.
 
8:09 PM
Why?
 
@BartekBanachewicz ?
 
It's guaranteed to mostly work, consume all the memory, and occasionally just not do either.
 
@ssube "an atlassian product" is just "it integrates seamlessly with bitbucket" for me :P
 
I really liked Python when I was writing a cron script with it
It just.. felt right.
 
@ssube Jira is incomparably better than bugzilla
 
8:10 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum All our build scripts are is bash and python, I think we managed to avoid perl and everything else entirely this time.
 
Honestly for what we do GitHub's issue tracking would have been enough.
 
@JanDvorak I think it makes similarly arbitrary design decisions, is dynamically typed...
 
<3 Jira
 
I should get around to learn python sometime
 
We have automation in Python, C# and JavaScript mostly.
 
8:11 PM
OTOH it has strong typing.
 
@JanDvorak you don't know python?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum We're using Git and Jira (and Crucible and...) here, playing with Gitlab to replace most of that. Gitlab + Jira is a really sweet setup.
 
@BartekBanachewicz same applies to javascript
 
That's a shocker to me =x
 
@SterlingArcher I've written some in it, but not much
 
8:11 PM
For my personal stuff, I just use Gitlab straight, since it's Github - crazy pricetag + on your own box.
 
@JanDvorak well I think we've already established that JS isn't really a good GP language
 
well then...
 
It wasn't built to be one either.
 
I mean, I wouldn't use node.js in production.
@BenjaminGruenbaum sure. that's the point.
 
@BartekBanachewicz why?
 
8:12 PM
I totally would, Node.JS rocks
 
@BartekBanachewicz eh.. why?
 
@JanDvorak it's really incomparable to other, established languages for server side
like Haskell.
 
Combined with express, url routing and authorization/sessions is cake
 
I wouldn't write I/O-heavy code in Haskell
 
offers no real benefits, and is unstable, buggy, and ES6 support is still a joke
@JanDvorak why?
 
8:13 PM
It's fast, has an amazing ecosystem with lots of libraries and support, is cheap to deploy, you can share code with the client etc. If you fit the use case of a server that is conceptually stateful it's pretty decent.
 
@SterlingArcher And then you do just the teensiest bit of CPU work, and the whole event-loop model falls apart immediately.
Relying on disk to be slow is questionable.
 
@BartekBanachewicz because laziness can be very hard to reason about when its side effects can be IO.
@ssube eh?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum well then, use seq. And friends. And STM.
 
@BartekBanachewicz And Python
 
8:14 PM
@copy yep.
 
@BartekBanachewicz not sure; stateful loops with IO seem hard, but that might be just my lack of experience with StateT IO
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Node still takes all requests on a single thread and dispatches them out to workers, no?
 
@BartekBanachewicz Haskell can be very confusing - I think laziness can be very confusing when it causes big side effects, I know you're supposed to work around that but it requires actively trying to avoid these pitfalls.
 
@JanDvorak StateT IO is just a beginning.
 
@BartekBanachewicz What's the next step?
 
8:15 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum Can you show any real example?
@JanDvorak STM, mostly. STRefs.
 
and if that thread gets backed up, bad things happen. And the recommended solution is "run more server processes on the same box."
 
@BartekBanachewicz no, I cannot. The only real example I have is copyrighted. I'd have to write one and GHC stays stuck when I try to compile anything on this box for some odd reason.
 
@BartekBanachewicz thanks, will check
 
@JanDvorak you can also take a look at how I use IORefs with atomically in potato
 
@BartekBanachewicz link?
 
8:17 PM
@JanDvorak here
wanted to give you a narrowed one :)
 
@ssube depends on how you set it up. However it's worth mentioning that while you're not supposed to do any CPU bound work in the event loop, it's not any easier-harder than with multithreading. Blocking calls after all do automatically put the thread to sleep and the IO completion does wake them up - the cpu scheduling itself is as problematic.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I (rlemon) am waiting since last christmas :/
 
thanks
 
note how State is used to represent a narrowed computation
or a transaction on a part of the state.
 
8:18 PM
!!afk
!!slidepoop
 
Mar 13 '13 at 1:40, by rlemon
(Random Fact, when rlemon was 13 he pooped on a slide. he isn't proud of it, but he felt it was time to confess. I'm sorry slide.)
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum My view is admittedly skewed by the combination of "intended to be easy for noobs" and defying conventional wisdom (around thread/process mgmt).
Reminds me too much of Grails. :(
 
8:31 PM
@BartekBanachewicz I thought synchronisation primitives were kinda overkill for single-threaded applications?
 
@JanDvorak BartekBanachewicz is afk.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum for a basic irc "client"... only connection + joining a room in ada: github.com/Ralt/ircada
 
@FlorianMargaine BenjaminGruenbaum is afk.
 
@CapricaSix Everyone is afk.
 
function x(a){a?console.log(a+="")-y.write(["nick copy2\nuser x 8 x :a\n",,"join #test123123\n",,"pong a"]["se+iet".indexOf(a.substr(-4,2))]||""):y=require("net").Socket().connect(666‌​7,"irc.freenode.net").on("data",x).on("close",x)}x();
@FlorianMargaine In node
 
8:38 PM
hehehe :)
yeah an irc client isn't hard
hence this
 
Hey guys. I have a quick angular question, is it possible to change the url to match a model value? I have a list with a set of filters and I would like to change the url whenever someone changes one of the filters and the application to load those filters upon load if there are any
 
So it looks like .NET is coming to Mac and Linux
 
should we expect a decent .net ide for windows now?
 
I take it you don't like VS?
 
I don't
 
8:44 PM
user image
11
 
I don't
 
Then no, you should not.
 
@SterlingArcher Hehe, nice
 
I've never actually used VS for anything other than compiling .NET projects
 
8:45 PM
Neither have I, and I already know it sucks
 
@SterlingArcher Why was he summing the numbers 1 to 5 as an http request?
 
all-caps menus that sometimes stay stuck open until restart. 'nuff said.
 
Demonstrating his awesome wobsite
 
fuck if I know D:
The imgur comments are horrendous
> String rekt == "true"
... Hate you.
 
Oh that's cringy.
What's the imgur gallery link?
 
8:46 PM
> If { (rekt = true); rekt(x);}
Son of a bitch.
 
user1596138
@Retsam it was server-side code, probably PHP ;P
 
I want to make an account just to correct these people.
 
@Retsam remove i. and .jpg
 
I've got an imgur account; I might do that.
 
Doing the right thing, correcting people on the Internet
 
8:47 PM
@JanDvorak Oh, cool; I didn't realize the image and gallery link was the same, d'oh.
 
@copy they gun lurn 2dai
 
!!xkcd wrong on the internet
 
> Wait, what the fuck kind of language was he using that it returned an HTML error code?
what the shit hahaha
 
Even if it is bullshit, it's still funneh
 
8:50 PM
Nah, see it's not about correcting wrong people. It's about the fake internet points.
 
If { (rekt = true); rekt(x);}
ugh
 
Guys, I may have just passed 1000 rep last week on SO, but on imgur? I'm glorious.
 
@KendallFrey It probably just threw and some framework got clever and responded.
 
@Retsam I've got tonnes of those stored in a bunker under the Nevada desert somewhere
 
Jersey does that all the time and it's awful.
 
8:51 PM
@ssube …
 
@ssube ...
 
@ssube ooo
 
…'d
 
Why do the dots expand?
 
It is quite amazing how many people literally (sorry copy) cannot parallel park a car.
 
8:52 PM
To be fair, I'm not a team of NASA scientists.
 
Did you know: almost all parking is parallel parking?
 
#TeamNASA
 
Next time you pull into a spot, look at the next car over.
 
@SterlingArcher It's not that amazing, given how many people never need to parallel park.
 
user1596138
@SterlingArcher robots*
 
8:53 PM
It's almost certainly pointing the same (or opposite) direction.
 
@ssube Not my parking
 
@ssube Use typography
 
#facepalm
 
@ssube Actually, it's almost certainly an angle that's not exactly 180 degrees, and therefore not parallel.
 
@Retsam Parallel is 0 or 180?
 
8:54 PM
@Retsam What?
 
Well, if you're looking at the car from your car it's 90 degrees from your vision, but yes, I fixed it.
 
@ssube yes
 
I discovered this one day when I became intoxicated and decided to go to office depot for whiteboards.
Looked at the lot and realized all the cars were approximately parallel.
 
yes, yes. You're all hipsters. Well done.
 
I don't understand it either. I asked him to leave but he just kept sitting next to me in his red tights and yellow boots.
 
8:56 PM
The fuck? Why ain't I a room owner anymore?
 
.
 
Not that I really need to be, just... wat
 
@monners ask @FlorianMargaine
 
@FlorianMargaine What gives? ^
 
8:57 PM
@monners ya were a baaaad boy
 
hello
 
@FlorianMargaine What about the rest of us?
 
that said, what does it change?
 
@monners We're the lower class now
Rebelion?
 
@FlorianMargaine Errr, what?
 
8:57 PM
@FlorianMargaine bot stuff
 
it changesevery thing
 
@FlorianMargaine Cannot see deleted posts
 
bot stuff sucks
 
@KendallFrey let's change the bot then
i.e. hardcoded list
 
@monners There was a room owner cleanup.
 
8:58 PM
@user2137186 who are you?
 
but honestly... did you use any RO privilege?
 
@SecondRikudo And I didn't make the cut?
 
@FlorianMargaine Seeing deleted posts
 
@monners If you feel any better, I didn't make it either.
 
8:59 PM
@monners I didn't even make the cut.
 
i dought that
 
@copy heh
 
@FlorianMargaine Yeah, plenty of times, actually
 
@FlorianMargaine Hell yeah
 
but it wasn't a cut. it was 'we need to be more managed. lets try this for a bit and see if it works. otherwise we'll go back to the old way'
 
8:59 PM
@user2137186 you're getting annoying.
 
now we'll need to ask people to bin messages
 

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