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9:00 PM
@Luggage Can we not bring up the 'j' word please?
 
if you use meteor and mongo, you deserve to be hit by both
 
@Trasiva no one said something about jews... calm down
hmm god damn it!!
hahhaa @ssube xD ahaaa
you meant jquery
 
@rlemon pongalong
 
@PomeGranate Yea, we definitely don't need to go there.
 
hm and I use waterline (orm)
 
9:02 PM
@Zirak check out the code for welcome
then look at the message produced now
!!welcome Zirak
 
@Zirak Welcome to the JavaScript chat! Please review the room rules. Pleasedon't ask if you can ask or if anyone's around; just ask your question, and if anyone's free and interested they'll help.
 
WHRE DID THE SPACE GO?!
 
I mean there is only one constant I can change in my sails app and then I use postgres.. do I have to change my code also?
 
I have no idea without knowing your ORM or data access methods.
 
@rlemon Didn't we store the message in localStorage, so if you ran an older version of the bot the newer default message wouldn't apply?
 
9:03 PM
!!info welcome
 
@Luggage ORM = Waterline - data access methods? Oo Sails
 
@Luggage Waterline is the ORM, and the long and short of it is he's shooting himself in the foot.
 
@rlemon Command welcome, created by God
 
did we?
i can't remember
 
@PomeGranate I meant that I don't know sails or waterline.
 
9:03 PM
I honestly don't remember
 
@PomeGranate they are very different databases, so even with an ORM, you should spend some time reading up on the difference
@Luggage express knockoff and activerecord,respectively
 
And no transactions either.
 
Depending how far along the project is, the migration might be difficult.
 
yeah it's in localStorage.bot_config or something like that
 
I think I'll try to code this fake transaction - instead of changing the whole database and change more code everywhere
 
9:04 PM
ohh whatever. I'll fix it tomorrow
5pm
 
well, i know knockout.. and I know the pattern ActiveRecord uses.. it might not be that bad for fetch/updates, tbut the DBs query in very differeny ways.
 
!!afk all my frogs died :(
 
nnnnooooo
 
yea :(
 
@PomeGranate good luck. this transactin topic is what made me throw up my arms and convert from mongo > postgres.
 
9:05 PM
I'm curious how they plan on giving you a consistent API between Redis, Mongo, Postgres, and disk
 
@rlemon What? How?
 
I forgot about them and didn't poke a hole in the ice for oxygen
 
I think any ORM that tries to give you a consistent API between so many DBs is bound to be a lowest-common-demoninator deal.
 
took the fish out of the pond for the winter. so it slipped my mind
 
At least in features.
 
9:06 PM
no oxygen === dead froggos
at least, that's my running theory
 
Damn, that's rough dude.
 
holly molly why are they doing this to us? we can't kill mongodb? or at least make it for everyone CLEAR that they never should use it
 
!!afk why did the frog cross the road? it didn't, rlemon killed it.
 
@PomeGranate we're trying
 
I like the idea of a "ORM" (placeholder term) that more directly maps between your language and the DB's specific features might be intersting. Like it can manage postgres custom types and how they map to a JS object, etc.
 
9:07 PM
sounds like LINQ
well, some of the less used parts
 
Not really...
well, not in my head, at least.
 
hm
 
What ORM are you faimilar with? NHibernate? Entity Framework?
 
@PomeGranate Because people don't do their homework and realize just how full of holes it is.
 
but mongodb was so cool and easy
 
9:09 PM
haven't used any C# ORM
 
javascript object => save and load
 
@PomeGranate that wasn't enough to tip you off that it might be a scam?
 
postgres can be almost as easy with the save/load
 
haha
 
jsut the querying is different.
 
9:10 PM
anyone got a reasonable eslint config for node?
 
any server-side jsx / react?
 
no
 
but wait I think it should be possible to do this transaction thing easyli in code - in my case
 
{
    "parser": "babel-eslint",
    "extends": [ "eslint:recommended" ],
    "env": {
        "es6": true,
        "node": true
    },
    "rules": {
        "no-unused-vars": [ 1, { "args": "none" }],
        "semi": [2, "always"],
        "no-console": [ 1 ]
    }
}
I don't know what you mean by "reasonable", though.
@PomeGranate there are articles on the topic
 
unused variables, for example
what you'd expect
 
9:13 PM
that's all in the recommended
I turned mine down to "warning" in thr rules section to override. It defaults to error, i think.
 
yeah unused is an error in my book
 
So you can drop that rules section, really. Just the "extends": [ "eslint:recommended" ], maybe babel-parser (you decide if you need that) and the "env" is all you need to get started with most rules turned on
 
1 message moved to Trash can
@PomeGranate Please don't post unformatted code - hit Ctrl+K before sending, use up-arrow to edit messages, and see the faq.
 
yeah eslint:recommended sounds good
whoops, require is not defined
 
i think that's in "env": { "node": true" }.. if i recall
 
9:16 PM
should be
 
I see there's a plugin
I'll try it
seems outdated
 
user2620028
anyone here use electron and able to answer how the hell to build the app
 
@HatterisMad use their boilerplate
worked perfectly for me
don't remember the details
 
user2620028
i just inherited a project from my boss
 
user2620028
and he used the electron react boilerplate
 
user2620028
9:17 PM
but if i make a code change it isn't reflected in the app when i npm start
 
look in package.json
 
user2620028
so im assuming i need to rebuild it somehow but the npm build doesn't get me what i want
 
user2620028
look for what
 
the script for start, I assume, and follow that
 
see what all the scripts do
 
9:19 PM
//change status of photos from "pending" to "accepted" - but first check, if they are already "accepted" don't do anything

Photo.find(photos).exec(function(foundPhotos){
    if(foundPhotos.status == "pending"){

       Photo.update(photos, status).exec(fucntion(updatedPhotos){
            // photo status is now already changed to "accepted", right?
            // now here find the user and increase his coins
                      //and decrease the limitation of selectable photos...
    })
})
 
electron generally doesn't need a build, it can load loose files, but if you're using React, you probably have a build of some sort
 
user2620028
i should have probably prefaced that i have never actually configured anything on node / webpack etc.
 
I set up my npm start tasks not to run a build
they start the last version you built
so that could be the case
 
isn't the code now 100% safe?
 
user2620028
build is doing npm run build-main && npm run build-renderer
 
9:20 PM
@HatterisMad then what do you want?
I can look into it, it's $100/hr
 
@PomeGranate nope, race conditions
 
otherwise you should start from the start if you want to work on it
 
user2620028
@Mosho sure, if you are willing to pay your bill
 
Someone else (well, another request) could be modifying the photo between the time you checked it status and modified it's statuc.
with a transaction you could tell the database "I am about to edit this, so no one else gets to write before I am finished."
 
@HatterisMad not sure what you mean
you just said "I need help with this, I know nothing about it"
 
user2620028
9:22 PM
@Mosho it was a joke, don't worry about it
 
not the worrying kind
 
@PomeGranate But, you are only updating a single document, so it's "mostly safe" and could be made better with some optimistic concurrency (which mogno might have built in?)
 
user2620028
essentially yes, i am not forcing you to answer so there is no reason to be snotty about it
 
I'm not being snotty
I am trying to make a little point
 
@Luggage uh... it has some sort of concurrency, that's for sure
 
user2620028
9:23 PM
@Mosho this is what we tell help vamp's when they ask us to code something for them
 
@HatterisMad you really aren't giving us much to go on
 
ignorant concurrency
 
T1 you check the status => its ok
     T2 another request check the status => its still ok
            T1 you change the status
                 T2 changes the status also  FUCK
 
@HatterisMad but as opposed to the vamping case, I wasn't really kidding
 
@Luggage no photos are multiple documents
 
9:24 PM
you should go to where the scripts are the poke around there
I seriously can't imagine what else I could offer without taking a look personally
 
foundPhotos.status == "pending" (foundPhotos is an array?)
 
yes
its pseudocode
 
then i don't understand that code. or is it meant to be not real
ohh, ok
 
yes yes sorry
 
user2620028
i was literally just asking if there is a special build case for electron that i am not aware about and can not find by my research
 
9:25 PM
Well, that changes everything, actually.
 
@Luggage iirc, the algorithm is mostly: readers get priority unless a query is running, running queries may be interrupted every 10ms or 100ms, if they run for longer than 100ms (?), and will be interrupted until the read queue is "empty" (actually just empty of reads waiting more than some ms)
 
With a single object, you can use optimistic concurrency to get around lack of locking. That's not really possible with multiple
 
@HatterisMad not typically for electron itself, but almost always for react
 
@ssube I am referring to the strategy for dealing with multiple updaters, not some mongo internal concurrency
 
@Luggage yeah, that's how it schedules incoming client queries
 
9:27 PM
this is awful
{
    "parserOptions": {
        "ecmaVersion": 6,
        "sourceType": "module"
    },
    "env": {
        "node": true,
        "es6": true
    },
    "extends": ["eslint:recommended"]
}
 
it does read and write queries sort of separate
 
What's awful about it?
 
user2620028
@ssube weird cause i have done react projects in npm and have never really had a problem with them doing this kind of a thing, every time i would start the project it would be the current code, not cached or something of the sort
 
I have to specify both "ecmaVersion": 6, and "es6": true
 
they are for different things
 
9:27 PM
well, maybe not awful
 
one is syntax, one is what variables are avilable in the default scope (env)
 
@HatterisMad you can set it up either way. I run into a lot of data errors, so my workflow is build-run-run-run-run, and thus I don't connect the two.
 
yeah, so I would expect to have some other config that gives me both
 
if you use lots of es2016, 2017+ features you may need babel-parser
(eslint supports some but not all out-of-the-box)
 
user2620028
i wonder if its just failing at building
 
9:29 PM
@Mosho that would be at least 8 lines, turning it on yourself is 2
 
user2620028
and is just running what is in dist
 
@Mosho Boo fucking hoo
 
@Zirak but ruby says typing is bad
 
grumble
 
9:30 PM
> In MongoDB, a write operation is atomic on the level of a single document
 
aaaaaah
haha ok
 
the $isolated modifier doesn't say exactly what it locks, so I would hesitate to use it
mongo loves to lock a whole collection or shard or sometimes just the entire cluster
 
it locks the whoel collection. it does say that
 
if you're on anything earlier than wiredtiger, it has to
 
even if the storage allows document level locking, it locks the entire collection
> Note: $isolated operator causes write operations to acquire an exclusive lock on the collection, even for document-level locking storage engines such as WiredTiger. That is, $isolated operator will make WiredTiger single-threaded for the duration of the operation.
 
9:32 PM
ha, I see that
 
I think sqlite even beats that
 
collection locks are no good @PomeGranate
 
(actually i have no idea what sqlite does for transactions)
 
last I used sqlite transactions (literally like 10 years ago), they were perfectly normal
 
9:33 PM
"old new thing" is one of my favourite blogs
 
I surpassed my mongo quota for the day.
 
@Zirak I forgot about it, but it is fantastic.
sometimes I miss being a developer and being able to just do stuff on Windows and be happy about it
 
Do stuff on Windows? Be happy?
Mutually exclusive if you're using winapi
@ssube How often do you get questions like "why do we need devops"?
 
rarely, most people believe we need servers
never at my company
 
@ndugger calendar invite
 
9:41 PM
@ssube okay, how about "what's devops"? Or "are you just a sysadmin"?
 
I am just a sysadmin
you can't tell chef from perl most of the time
 
lol. look at this loser, only a sysadmin. bro, do you even devops?!
 
Fair enough
The "just" was unjustified on my part, though
 
@Shrek hehe
 
9:43 PM
but again, at work, it's not a thing. One of the founders is attached to the devops team and works closely for anything interesting, we run Go daemons on ECS, it's all pretty cushy.
@Zirak oh, I'm just assuming you're getting after some comparison with devs, but now I'm confused
I have no delusions that my job is anything but IT to developers, though :P
 
@ssube No I'm curious since I was asked several times by newer people what devops is and why it's necessary. It's a new term and sysadmins already have a weird bad rep of being "inferior" to "regular developers".
 
Apple version: "No we won't fix it"
 
heh, it's largely the opposite, at least at the end of the day. My current company makes a point of dev and ops working closely, but my last place tried their best not to.
but regardless of what marketing says, we can't change CPU scheduling (something a VP actually argued with)
 
Google version: .. there is none because you can't find anywhere on their platform to talk to a real fucking person. :(
 
if you don't give us the hardware, the servers are going down, and we'll be around to ask for the hardware again tonight
 
9:47 PM
yes there is
if you are using Google apps for work
they have human customer support for billing
 
if you're paying them already
bingo.
 
Unrelated but my usb-c charger is whispering things to me
I...think
Send help
 
Amazon Version: "We are sending you a replacement game with fixed versions and $10 for our error" (Really their support is amazing)
 
check and see if it's a snek
or if it's on fire
or about to go on fire
 
@Zirak just stick it in
 
9:48 PM
@ssube Devops is largely abstracted to my team and its surroundings. I like to be a human being and say hi to other departments, other people...less so.
Besides, good work relations with unrelated people can sometimes be surprisingly helpful when everything's on fire and you have a calm head and can point at people who can help
 
@Shrek it really is. While intoxicated the other night, we ordered taco bell and it was maybe 10 minutes late, they refunded almost 50% of the price. Like 6 dorito locos tacos
 
*phone rings*
me: hello?
person: hello
me: ..
person: you there?
me: yea
person: you sound like a man
me: yes I do, and you sound like you have the wrong number.
person: omg I do.
*hangs up*
...
*phone rings.*
...
 
@rlemon This is fake, not enough 'sorry'.
 
I love when they call back the second time. always makes me chuckle a bit
 
@rlemon Person was saying how manly you are
10/10 tap them
 
9:50 PM
_lowers voice_ why thankyou.
 
Probably asked a girl for their number, got yours instead.
 
Jesus, from the founding of Youtube days.
 
@Zirak that was a problem at my last place. Essentially the guy in charge of dev and ops didn't like ops because we couldn't make bad code work, more or less, and used it to make sure we could only talk to dev and tried to push even that through meeting and middle management (scrub lords and such).
It led to a lot of easily avoidable meltdowns, cause we'd see something coming in our (minimal) monitoring and it would take 2 days to warn somebody and they wouldn't be allowed to work on it.
 
has anyone else picked up on inline youtube videos don't get monetized? so my inline chat script has no ads. could potentially be abused.
 
9:51 PM
@ssube Sounds charming
 
like a script that swapped them out in the youtube page.
 
@rlemon I don't notice because I don't get ads period.
 
@rlemon Embedded youtube also bypasses country restrictions
 
@Zirak not always
 
so, what is devops? doing a sys-admin job, at scale, with programmy tools?
 
9:52 PM
seems like a gaping loophole waiting to be exploited. also yea, I've been restricted with the inline script in here to country.
 
Seriously though my charger is saying things
 
but the no ads thing.
 
@Luggage yep.
 
I could do that.
 
writing puppet/chef/ansible instead of doing perl on the box
 
9:53 PM
I mean.. I don't have experience doing it.. i'm mostly a dev, but a dev that was usually also doing the server config, too. I know my way around servers (windows and linux)
 
it's a lot more about the architecture and stuff now than gritty kernel networking rules
 
So.. I'm a knowledgable noob in that job. (by my estimation)
 
like, I've spent a ton of time recently learning AWS services
that's exactly how I got into it
 
part of me likes the sound of it, as a job, even though I consider myself 100% developer
 
was a dev, ran my own servers on the side, started finding tools like gitlab that could help, eventually had contributed enough that when the previous guy got fired, I took charge
and with my current boss quitting rather suddenly to go work for an agriculture tech place, I get gitlab here too :D
 
9:55 PM
ohh right, i managed jira windows servers at xerox, gitlab linux servers, wrote all our SVN hooks to cply with policy and pass audits, etc.
used to know powershell. I can stumble my way through bash scripts.
 
I've always tended less towards production operations and more toward internal operatiors, especially with running the gitlab stuff, but I do use the same tools (chef and terraform at WIW) to do it that we do in prod. And now it's a small enough team that I do touch prod, deploying changes and doing DDL stuff.
 
can write entries in fstab, request ssql certs, lots of random little things that lots of devs don't know, due to my server experience
devops + internal tools developer sounds like what I want.
 
I can make your servers not work anymore if you give me access to them
 
you should definitely spend time on both sides of the line, ops should be able to run the app locally and dev should know what spinning a new service entails
 
user1596138
@HatterisMad rented equipment for the mud bog Sunday i.imgur.com/adRKMnv.jpg
 
user2620028
9:56 PM
the end result was that the build broke because node updated and babel was then misconfigured
 
I'm real good at that
 
I like playing with tools, build scripts, automation
 
user1596138
That's the main recovery
 
user2620028
ooo fun
 
user2620028
try not to break any frames
 
9:57 PM
@ssube Yep.
 
user1596138
Yea they rented us a driver too. No fun for us
 
user2620028
aww
 
they have given me ~$50 back thanks to DC protests and traffic
 
user1596138
Srsly that thing is going to rip a truck in half
 
user2620028
yeah definitely
 
user2620028
9:57 PM
if you used anyone but the normal driver for it
 
user1596138
They have Bubba Ropes so at least no snapping chains
 
user2620028
normal operator* will be able to ease shit out with it
 
user1596138
Yea lol one of us in that thing would be bad bad news
 
user2620028
would jerk the control ever so slightly and just rip the whole axle out of the vehicle
 
Sorry dude, I didn't mean to rip your axle off your car
Get out of my head Hatter!
 
user1596138
9:58 PM
Oh I misread
 
user1596138
The company is donating the tractor and driver for the day
 
user2620028
> Trasiva: hmm.... porn
 
user2620028
how do you do the thing again
 
user1596138
Even better
 
> >
 
9:59 PM
@Luggage you should look into it then, it's a fun change from dev, you only have internal customers to harass you and you know their boss :P
 
user2620028
thank you lemon for knowing what i was talking about
 
guys... still because of the transaction thing.. sorry for annoying youuu
but is this package promising to much?
https://www.npmjs.com/package/fawn
 

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