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10:00 PM
there was a huge meetup in the hackerspace tonight. Can't wait for everyone to be gone so I can clean the shit out of the place
 
@BenFortune hey ben fortune
@towc ...
I don't want to abuse my power
 
did I remember it right?
 
0
Q: Limit the size of Twitter oneboxes in chat

Kendall FreyTwitter links that contain multiple images can fill nearly a whole screen when they are one-boxed on chat. It's very annoying, and it would be much nicer if it was height-limited. For example: There was a recent conversation about this: https://chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/40440...

@MadaraUchiha @Jhoverit
 
@towc Some people value their privacy, don't be a dick
 
I didn't realize he was against it
 
10:02 PM
I didn't used to be
 
I think it's been mentioned before
 
Now i am :P
 
it's pretty public anyway
but sure
 
I know :P
but atleast not obvious
 
ABS and Nylon on the way.
I want the nylon for gears
 
user1596138
10:05 PM
@KendallFrey Wonderful. The reason I took offense was we have a full blown moderator who couldn't just raise the issue himself hahaha
 
user1596138
Upvoted, commented
 
It's chat, like they care :P
 
I just don't want them to shut this cesspool down
 
user1596138
Exactly. The people in positions to care don't
 
has anybody
tried a delta 3d printer here?
 
10:07 PM
no one had one when the topic came up the other day.
 
!!gtx1080 or 3d printer?
 
@ShrekOverflow gtx1080
 
1070 and a 3d printer
 
print a gpu...
 
10:09 PM
@BenFortune true might actually be cheaper
 
render a 3d printer using your new gpu
 
...case
 
not bad idea actually
@BenFortune Can the 1070 game?
:troll:
 
ugh
 
@BenFortune Its gonna be an EGPU
but jeeesh 1080 prices are crazy
 
10:10 PM
yup
I got mine for free
 
whoa how?
 
5 finger discount
 
you punched the shop keeper?
 
...sure
Nah, it was a thank you from work
 
Oh, I thought that you gave 5 fingers to the shopkeeper
Thats a real nice thank you from work then.
 
10:18 PM
Guys, I'm having trouble extending Map -- it seems to ignore the fact that it was extended jsfiddle.net/jmbm0p8p
any ideas?
 
@KamilSolecki that's only if you get caught
 
@ndugger What about using a Proxy?
 
@ShrekOverflow the 1070 is a good card
 
@BenFortune I have that right now, but the overhead seems redundant when I can just extend Map
 
esp for 1080 gaming
 
10:20 PM
@BenFortune Do you make games :O ?
 
@ShrekOverflow Lol what makes you think that
 
@Loktar I know, I am gonna have ~1060ish performance from it though
 
whys that?
 
@ndugger this.owner = owner; never runs
 
shitty cpu?
 
10:21 PM
@Loktar EGPU
 
@Luggage I know, can you tell why?
 
ooh hah
 
man I just had a holy crapola moment when I realized why GPU's were so fast, and why they were specialized for graphics... I mean, how could hardware be specialized for handling points and math?
 
can't build a desktop
 
No.. not sure why yet..
 
10:21 PM
why not get a 1060 then?
 
It'll give 1050 perforamnce
they usually drop ~15-20% in perf.
 
It's like it ignore the new constructor and only runs Map's constructor
 
the least perforamnce drop comes on a mbp so far
 
@ShrekOverflow what connector?
pcie?
 
which is useless for gaming with a high power card
@Loktar Thunderbolt USB C
 
10:22 PM
THANK YOU
 
well, it runs the new constructor. just only until the super()
 
I thought you were being serious before
 
console.log('pre-super'); // logs just fine
super(data);
console.log('post-super'); // no loggy
this.owner = owner;
 
Ofcourse not Ben :P
It can play League of Legends
but thats the limit
 
@Luggage why u writing Objected Oriented Javascript? :blah:
 
10:23 PM
I am very very very very very tempted
 
> Built-in classes such as Date, Array, DOM etc cannot be properly subclassed due to limitations in ES5 (babel docs)
 
@Loktar I am unaware of a laptop that exposes raw PCIE
 
.... @JosephStevens
 
@Luggage yeah... seems like a bug
 
and is still a laptop
I mean I saw a MSI Monstrosity
 
10:23 PM
@JosephStevens you know JS just got a pile of OO features, right? And will be getting more?
 
@Luggage yeah, but I'm not using ES5 or babel
 
@ShrekOverflow lots of them have pcie minis
 
@ShrekOverflow There's loads with mini pcie
 
Then you just get an expansion card
 
10:24 PM
ohh, oops
I still assume babel
 
That might work out really well
 
yea
 
Seems like a bug in chrome... I'll test in FF
 
probably I was looking for them in the wrong section
 
@ssube Yeah, but doesn't mean you have to continue the trend ;)
 
10:24 PM
Yay! me happy
 
if you run over ethernet you might be able to disconnect your wifi card internally
some have done that to expose an additional one
 
nope, happens in FF as well, so it must be expected
very strange
whatever, I can do a workaround for now
 
just proxy a proxy
 
I'm in too deep, roger
 
@ShrekOverflow Something like this
Then you just need to find a way to power it
 
10:26 PM
async generator that returns promises of observable proxies
 
But there's a pretty good chance they're only x4
 
I can't seem to find one on AMZ
how do I even look for a laptop with PCIE :D
When I search I get ones with SSDs on PCIE
 
most laptops have it
But they're usually populated with an ssd or wifi card
 
wait are you suggesting I open
 
external? thunderbolt3?
 
10:27 PM
@JosephStevens don't fight it, sweet young child
 
the laptop and jerry rig it
 
0
Q: jQuery: converting document on click function to inline onclick function?

David Hopedue to some circumstances, i have to convert my click function to a separate function and call that function using inline onClick="myFunction();" My current code is like this: $(document).on('click','.exBtn', function(){ var ex = $(this).attr('data-ex'); $('.btnsHolderEx').hide(); $('.subbtnsH...

 
@ndugger say it again and hold me tight
 
yeah that's what I was saying, might have to remove the wifi card to expose one for use
then just get an external USB one or something
 
Or get a thunderbolt one
 
10:28 PM
I'd take the thunderbolt 3 with less perf :P
 
tb3
tb4
 
yeah must mention that Thanks apple T_T
@Luggage is there one?
 
@ndugger indeed, seems like the world is set in it's ways. Tis sad really, I thought more of programmers as a whole.
 
one day
 
ASUS was advertising the pcie as a replaceable extension slot
came with an SSD, could put in certain small GPUs or network cards
 
10:29 PM
@JosephStevens Well aren't you just high and mighty. You do realize that the entire underlying DOM and other APIs that your JS consumes is all OOP, right?
 
^
 
yea. but be aware, not all m.2 slots are pcie. some are just usb
some are msata
 
They're mostly only pcie x4 anyway, so a lot of the time it's not even thunderbolt that's limiting it
it's the lanes
 
@Luggage I didn't think there were any m.2 usb?
 
what is oop
 
10:30 PM
oops
 
they weren't m2, just epcie
 
oop(s)
 
things like wifi cards may really be on a usb bus in the same slot
 
good joke, ben
 
@ndugger yeah, and javascript is buggy as anything lol. Just because it is that way, doesn't mean it is a good way to design something.
 
10:30 PM
I learned from the best
 
@JosephStevens feel free to find an entirely different platform, then
 
@KevinB Object oriented programming, like classes, objects, inheritence, all that jazz
 
@JosephStevens why did you jump in this chatroom by chance?
 
@JosephStevens so structuring your program to match your data is a bad idea, huh?
 
hey, I like my JavaScript, its pretty essential to modern computing!
 
10:31 PM
I use OO, functional, other as approriate.
 
OO and FP get along great
 
@JosephStevens ok cool was just reading the discussion as you didn't enjoy JS
and was confused ;p
just modern JS then I take it lol
 
He likes it how his grandpappy liked it
 
@Loktar no way lol, you think I want to go back to Java? No thank you lol, or even worse C shutters
we have made great strides forward!
 
le sigh
 
10:33 PM
@MadaraUchiha What was the root question?
 
JavaScript and Java are unrelated.
If that's what you meant by 'go back to'.
 
@Zirak @ndugger
 
turns out my thumb is not cut out for snowmobiling
 
i mean, i like using objects and classes
 
8
Q: Proxy a WebComponent's constructor that extends HTMLElement

nduggerSo, in a library that I'm creating that uses custom elements, you obviously need to define the class in the CustomElementsRegistry before you may instantiate it. As of right now, this is being solved with a decorator: class Component extends HTMLElement { static register (componentName) { ...

 
10:34 PM
try cutting it a bit more
 
it was solved, though
 
@KendallFrey wtf why?
 
it's sore from 20min lol
 
@Luggage I mean, as a programmer we used to develop desktop applications, but now adays not so much, and the most popular way to do that was Java, now adays it's about websites, so naturally Javascript
 
@ndugger aahh yeah that can be a tricky thing to remember/realise
 
10:35 PM
@Loktar oh lol different message
 
couldn't imagine javascript without objects
 
Reflection is tricky in a proxy
 
context
 
I still don't fully understand how it works
 
@JosephStevens you can write websites in C
 
10:35 PM
@KevinB to each their own :)
 
@ndugger When you're proxying a method you by default want to use the appropriate Reflect function, unless you have reasons not to
 
@KendallFrey haha yea
just saw that starred and didn't see any context at all
 
@towc you can eat soup with pencil as well
 
unless @KamilSolecki is Polish?
 
@JosephStevens I see. Meh. Java was only one choice then, and JavaScript will very very soon be but only one choice for web (see WASM).
 
10:35 PM
@JosephStevens are you being serious when you suggest JS would be better without or just trolling?
 
he is
 
@JosephStevens challenge accepted
 
ahh ok I get it
 
because JS is made entirely of objects
as are all modern languages that I'm aware of
 
Yes me is
 
10:36 PM
@ndugger Think about Reflect.X as the real, native, in-language version of a proxy method
 
so if that's not a trend you like, programming is not the place to be
 
go live in the woods or something
 
@KamilSolecki nice half of my family is Polish, I feel like I knew this but forgot about you
 
@Zirak makes sense. It's just the first time I've used a Proxy and Reflect, so it's a bit magical to me
 
Good question, good answer
 
10:36 PM
I'm sure I'll understand it better
 
it's coming back to me now.. we talked about Polish food a while back
 
lol... yep, I don't like objects, I shall quit being a programmer, good call guys. Very open minded.
 
@Loktar half my family is african
 
alright, bye then
 
...if you go back far enough
 
10:37 PM
o/
 
@KendallFrey your mom you mean
 
objects are data
 
I am sure when talked to a C developer, and you told them you don't need pointers, they would react similarly.
 
if you don't like objects, you don't like data
 
@KendallFrey if this were a 4chan channel I would have had a great response
but.. tis not.
 
10:37 PM
@Loktar you have my hangouts
 
You don't need pointers if everything is a pointer
 
@ssube Thing would be so much easier if it weren't for data, I must admit.
 
Yeah fuck data
And date
 
I mean, structs contain data right? and they aren't objects.
 
you're just being very unclear, to me at least. I keep seeing you complain bout this or that, but i don't understand the problem or what you think would be better.. just confusing.
 
10:38 PM
@KendallFrey I feel like it's something I'd need anonymity for ;P
 
javascript doesn't have structs
 
any contained unit of state is an object
 
that's coldfusion
 
structs don't have behavior
 
10:38 PM
they aren't js objects, but they are an object in the abstract sense.
 
objects don't have to have behavior
 
@JosephStevens look man I can agree that we don't need Typescript
that's the argument right? 😉
 
Right, functions do right?
 
POJSOs, POJOs, etc are all struct-equivalents without behavior
 
Functions + Structs and you can program?
 
10:38 PM
@KendallFrey that looks like its from lore
T_T
 
its from star trek
 
/me goes back to enjoying Luftrausers on my C64
 
@Loktar but but but we need that intellisense!
 
You are free to avoid classes and use something LIKE a struct and loose functions in JS.
 
you still have objects, though
 
10:40 PM
youtube.com/watch?v=jpUHJvt6PUA <- on the commodore 64, fucking awesome demake.
 
"something LIKE a struct and loose functions" describes Go quite well, but still, objects
 
and Haskell
 
Right, Go, Haskell, Elm C are all languages without objects.
 
We'll discuss the shortcomings of JavaScript any day, but when you roll up in here slinging shade at our bread and butter, we are gonna shoot back. :)
 
haha, fair enough :)
 
10:42 PM
if Go doesn't have objects, what does the GC keep track of?
 
I mean an object doesn't mean a whole lot right? It just means it can have some properties, and it might have some functions, and each object will have an instance of those.
You can have properties outside of an object to clean up.
 
objects don't mean a whole lot, they're just a way to encapsulate data
hence the confusion at you saying you're against them
 
@ssube and behaviour
 
I would argue mixing data and behavior together is risky, and perhaps not the best way to design things.
 
the main trick there is combining data with behaviour
 
10:44 PM
you can have an object with state and no behavior
same way you can have a contract with behavior and no state
 
@ssube Sure, and you can have a house with no doors
 
if houses could inherit their doors, that'd be fine
 
Right like how lo-dash for example has functions they don't know anything about the data, that kind of seperation is healthy for code (in my opinion)
 
@JosephStevens that only works because of previously agreed-upon methods
which lodash checks for and calls
 
@JosephStevens How does a function not handle data?
 
10:46 PM
@KendallFrey a function should take data in, and spit new data out, thats a functions job.
 
nope
 
@ssube exactly, and that's what I would say a better design for code would be.
 
that's a pure function's job
 
@JosephStevens Exactly, so how can it "not know anything about the data"?
 
it's perfectly reasonable to have state-changing functions
 
10:47 PM
@JosephStevens that's called an interface or a contract, and is the fundamental block of OOP
 
@towc google it, "A function is a special relationship where each input has a single output."
 
@JosephStevens a mathematical function
in CS, it has a different meaning
 
^
 
@towc not always
 
@KendallFrey you can know about data, that is great, you should know about it, that is what a parameter is for.
 
10:48 PM
it has a broader definition, including that
 
except for the subcase of pure functions, as mentioned
 
@JosephStevens At this point I have no idea what you're trying to tell me
 
I am saying that Objected Oriented Code isn't the greatest thing for JavaScript, and we should look to libraries\languages like Elm or lodash for "better designed" styles (that would be my argument)
 
@JosephStevens you're arguing that FP is a good paradigm
that's fine, I think we all mostly agree
 
@towc Well, not really
 
10:51 PM
@towc yes! :P
 
I think OOP is fine for JS though
 
except I am doing a poor job at it lol
 
FP has useful bits
 
both are fine
 
but you need to combine it with what JS gives you a lot of power over
and that's stuff like objects
 
10:52 PM
There's nothing wrong with mixing the best bits of different styles
 
most FP relies heavily on objects, though
 
@ssube really? how?
 
small, immutable objects to move data from one function to the next
 
FP doesn't have objects, that's the oo bridge between the two.
 
@KendallFrey what do you mean "how?" Functions pass objects.
 
10:52 PM
Not in Haskell
 
@JosephStevens what do you think FP is?
 
unless by "objects" you mean "data" or "values"
 
sure, mutable objects might be a problem. But you can just freeze them if it becomes that much of a problem
 
do you handle them as first-class items rather than blocks of memory?
that's the difference between object and struct or whatever you want to call it imo
 
Oh, then yes in that case
That's not the definition of object I normally use
 
10:54 PM
If you freeze an object, and the object has no functions on it, then you have yourself a struct (albiet a more expensive one)
 
@KendallFrey it's my attempt at deescalation
live with it
 
structs aren't immutable...
@JosephStevens I think you're confusing a few concepts there
 
whoops, you are right, a object with only properties = struct
 
@JosephStevens nope
 
structs are blocks of memory, not objects
you work with them using pointer arithmetic
eventually everything is pointers, but structs are in no way first class objects
 
10:56 PM
Oh yeah, for clarity, one of the criteria I think of to be an object is identity.
structs don't have identity, objects do.
 
by identity you mean this/self or something else?
 
A high-level concept, where two things can be equal but not identical
 
1 message moved to Trash can
@JosephStevens Please don't post unformatted code - hit Ctrl+K before sending, use up-arrow to edit messages, and see the faq. For posting large code blocks, use a paste site like gist.github.com, hastebin.com, pastie.org or a demo site like jsbin.com
 
that looks pretty darn similar to an object right?
 
looks like a bot cleanup job
 
10:58 PM
In c for example, they look like this
struct Books {
char title[50];
char author[50];
char subject[100];
int book_id;
};

you'd create a struct like this
struct Books myBook;
then access it like book.title
 
it has curly braces and some dots, but that's about it
you're still talking about memory layout, not properties of an object
 
Then there's C++ and how it defines struct and class
:P
 
the order being significant is a good hint
 
are you saying Structs have order that matters or Objects do?
 
if two programs share a struct and disagree on field order, it breaks (hopefully, otherwise much worse happens)
 
10:59 PM
@ssube Is it possible to have a struct in a higher-level system that doesn't deal with memory? Another definitional question
 
because a struct is not a high-level construct
 
72
Q: Does the order of members in a struct matter?

0shI have found a peculiar behaviour in C. Consider the below code: struct s { int a; }; struct z { int a; struct s b[]; }; int main(void) { return 0; } It compiles just fine. Then change the order of the members of struct z like so struct z { struct s ...

 
@KendallFrey I don't think so, they're kind of specific to C/++ and how it handles memory.
 

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