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11:00 PM
Hidden classes behave the same way, but again, those are a memory structure used to optimize things, not an object.
 
What would be a higher-level analog? a record?
 
that seems like the best option
 
so many labels :/
one of the things I really dislike about the javascript community is that things have so many labels inherited from other languages
 
I think you could have an object that contains a buffer that contains a struct, but only because the buffer offers you unstructured memory (effectively)
 
@towc Can't have broad connotation and denotation at the same time
 
11:01 PM
@towc that, uh, is how all languages work
 
such is the limitation of language
 
sure, object properties that happen to be functions are technically methods, but it doesn't have nearly the same significance
 
many of those borrowed terms are from such humble origins as csci itself
 
it just confuses newcomers
 
why does any of it matter
 
11:02 PM
future languages will have even fewer original terms
 
floats? integers? they're all numbers in JS, stop calling them in different ways
 
I remember learning what the difference was between parameters and arguments.
 
well, they're not
 
you can say "it acts like a float"
 
JS handles floats and integers differently
leading to some bugs
 
11:03 PM
wait, it does?
 
@ssube Well, not totally
 
you mean when doing binary operations?
 
there's a reason "why does 0.1 + 0.2 not == 0.3?" is such a common Q
@KendallFrey no, it can choose to
 
All numbers in native JS are doubles
 
as boxed numbers, they can switch to (or maybe only from) integers
 
11:03 PM
Boxed?
 
Yeah, JavaScript is optimized for very very very big numbers, like crazy big ones. But it made the tradeoff of being able to handle smaller numbers well.
 
@KendallFrey except when using the bitwise operators
and various other things
then they're u/int32s
 
@ssube The numbers themselves are still doubles, the only integer math is an intermediate step, kinda black-boxed
 
@JosephStevens JS can't even handle very big numbers
 
@ssube that are still treated as floats in JS, although it "abstracts it back" to integers in the background, afaik
 
11:04 PM
@KendallFrey iirc they can be stored as ints
 
Also doubles handle numbers at all scales equally well, within the valid range
 
Benji/Zirak probably knows how better, but it does/used to use both formats
 
@ssube that's an implementation detail though, right?
 
1.7976931348623157e+308
that's pretty big to me
 
it is, but one the spec allows (and for bitwise stuff, requires)
 
11:05 PM
@JosephStevens add 1 to it and see if it equals itself
 
@JosephStevens Graham scoffs at your little number
 
I mean Windows is having trouble with 32 bit, javascript is like, how bout 308 bit?
 
then add more than that to it
 
that's not 308 bit...
 
@JosephStevens lol no
 
11:06 PM
it isn't?
 
it's 64 bit
 
it's a floating point number
 
you just lost just about any credibility you had
 
it only has 16 significant digits
 
11:06 PM
@towc don't be a twat
 
@ssube don't be ssube
2
 
too late
 
oh were we not saying impossible things
 
no we were
 
@KendallFrey that's not where I thought that was going
 
11:07 PM
Wait, so that number I pasted, is a 64 bit integer?
 
Where did you think it was going? Mars?
 
I don't know where I thought that was going tbf
yeah, mars, probably
 
@JosephStevens No, it's a double-precision floating-point number
as specified by IEEE
 
The IEEE Standard for Floating-Point Arithmetic (IEEE 754) is a technical standard for floating-point computation established in 1985 by the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers (IEEE). The standard addressed many problems found in the diverse floating point implementations that made them difficult to use reliably and portably. Many hardware floating point units now use the IEEE 754 standard. The standard defines: arithmetic formats: sets of binary and decimal floating-point data, which consist of finite numbers (including signed zeros and subnormal numbers), infinities, and special...
 
that one
 
11:08 PM
the number is split into an exponent and another part, which are encoded in 64 bits, losing some precision
 
@JosephStevens put this in your console: const x = Number.MAX_SAFE_INTEGER; [ x, x + 1, x === x + 1 ]
 
learned something new
 
That means you can store extremely tiny numbers too
 
@towc looks right to me :/
 
!!> 10 ** -320
 
11:09 PM
@KendallFrey 1e-320
 
@JosephStevens you expect some number, some other number, false, right?
 
!!> 10 ** -330
 
@KendallFrey 0
 
viola
 
@towc that's what you get
 
11:09 PM
and see that x is actually pretty small
 
my console says
[9007199254740991, 9007199254740992, false]
 
oh damn
 
I think you were going for MAX_VALUE?
 
but then try adding one to the second one
 
try this instead: x = Number.MAX_SAFE_INTEGER + 1; [ x, x + 1, x === x + 1 ]
 
11:10 PM
that's going to do the same thing
 
no?
no
 
x = Number.MAX_VALUE + 1; [ x, x + 1, x === x + 1 ]
 
oh, they both roll over to he same thing
 
that does what you were talking about, says it is true
 
@JosephStevens now, x is pretty damn small, right?
 
11:11 PM
I mean, not really
I'd be impressed to have that many inches in my pants
 
dude, that's a crazy big number, if that's the limit that works for me
 
yeah, that's big
@towc do you know math?
 
but but but :/
that's barely 2**53
 
1 is the middle number
anything larger is big, anything smaller is small
 
oh, looks like everyone left
 
11:13 PM
bye
 
I can finally go to the toilet and fart
 
I just fart in place
 
and then start the cleaning
with pretty much no materials :/
 
cheers all, thanks for the conversation :) learned something new!
 
@JosephStevens thanks for keeping it civil when we shat on all your ideas at once :P
2
 
11:15 PM
haha, I mean, I worded things poorly for sure, I don't mind getting flak if I am sending it, have a good one ssube :)
 
Also try Haskell because it can store integers of arbitrary size
:D
 
out of curiosity, how long do you think it should take to find the valuable parts of Haskell and understand their reasoning? Assuming you know what monads are and aren't a moron.
I would say "learn it" but that mostly means reading a book, doing a todo list, and moving on
 
it's a trick question
there's no valuable parts of Haskell
 
you just want me to learn lisp first
 
I wouldn't dare
 
11:19 PM
Most of the stuff exists in other languages
 
but if you insist...
:P
 
So depending on how much you know, (and how much you want to know) 10-1000 hours
 
pretty sure Common Lisp has many concepts you're completely unaware of.
 
nope there's one more guy
 
signals/conditions, upgradable objects, CLOS in general, reader macros, macros (for real)
 
11:20 PM
@towc why are you skulking around this place until everyone leaves?
 
I once made a macro that was running cdebootstrap during compile time.
 
@ssube I don't want to bother anyone while I clean
I also want to take a shower
I live here now
maybe
 
...
 
it should be clearer tomorrow sometime
 
will it now
 
11:22 PM
believe it or not, yes
there's a meet of the members, and they'll decide if they want me around or not
one of the reasons I really want to clean up is to show that I can do stuff
 
cook for them
 
so you want to become this coworking space's Dobby?
 
@KevinB you wish
 
@ssube looks like so
"don't give him a sock"
"I'm freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee"
 
well, I'd pay very little rent
and network like a good networking person
 
11:24 PM
@ssube ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
 
for friends also
I think I grew up with a need to have someone expect stuff from me all the time
and after a while I end up hating them and run away
he might not leave until ~2am to think about it
I could ask him, but now my nose is bleeding because I'm not used to the humidity and temperature here yet
and there's probably a shitton of dust and stuff that I'm allergic to
 
that's usually not enough to cause nosebleeds
 
it is for me apparently
 
you should talk to a doctor if blood emits from your head regularly
which it seems to
 
11:32 PM
just about every time I go to my parents', I get a couple of nosebleeds par day
it almost never did in my apartment
 
blink twice if they hit you
 
or in the woods
or on mountain hikes
sometimes in cars or synthetic fields
and classrooms
oh boy, I had to give a few tests in early because of nosebleeds, it wasn't fun
 
put a tissue in your nose and finish the test
 
school is scared of insurance stuff
 
for tissues wtf?
 
11:37 PM
probably for blood
 
so they make me end the test and either give me a lower score or give me a completely different and harder one later
 
my school had a similar rule, we just didn't follow it
especially in shop/art classes
 
so I just pretended it wasn't happening for as long as I could
 
probably your best bet. Never had that happen
 
but guess what? No more academy for me! :D
just slowly drifting into wilfull homelessness
hm, it might just be stress
 
11:40 PM
homelessness is on the rise
 
I nosebled once in my apartment yesterday while packing up, then once again in the streets today when looking for a place to eat because I wasn't really sure what would be next, and then again now
and my parents stress the shit out of me
and school/tests kinda do
 
that's not normal. See a doctor.
 
while hikes and woods don't
 
maybe eat more than raw chicken and basil
 
nah, I've had this since way before I moved here
 
11:41 PM
generally cease your unnatural way of living
 
I'm just allergic to a lot of things
and maybe nosebleeds are one of the symptoms
 
I'm allergic to nosebleeds
and living. I'm allergic to living
 
I want my hats from last year sigh...
 
almost 1am, guy hasn't left :/
 

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