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4:00 PM
MDN ftw
 
:-)
 
@metalim postgres is better
 
@metalim I don't really have one yet. As of right now, it's only storing account information, and statistics. Game data is dynamically stored in Redis
 
@Cereal Imagine that with Oculus VR :P
 
@metalim postgres ftw
 
4:00 PM
@metalim non-standard behavior can break some apps (drivers/ibraries), hard to scale
 
for games ofc.
 
@Trasiva They are generated on the server side without name , so groups are unavilable.
 
@rlemon he was asking me why I'm thinking of dropping MySQL from my game stack
 
postgres is ok, if you have time to set it up.
 
I don't care
postgres is better
 
4:01 PM
lol
 
@metalim it takes a few seconds to set up by hand and no time at all to script
 
But who wants to use the PEN stack when you have a MEN stack
 
Nuclear reactor is much better than diesel.
 
I'm running a PEEN stack right now
 
@RoyiNamir So use radio buttons if only one can be checked.
 
4:02 PM
Postgres, Express, Electron, Node
 
although we see no cars on nuclear reactors yet
 
Electron?
 
PEEN v15
 
nuclear reactors are hard to set up and maintain
 
@SterlingArcher what github used to make Atom in
nwjs but better
 
4:02 PM
Using postgres with flask, sqlalchemy and angular.
 
Electron is faster and lighter than NWjs
 
and more fully featured
 
so I'm not sure why you think it's better
 
"without touching the HTML ?". My question was about the JS part only.
 
4:03 PM
@Cereal nice
 
Oh wait
I can't read
 
:P
 
@SterlingArcher you can use it for your game :P
 
you said "but" better
 
so electron is just webview ?
 
4:03 PM
What the hell is webview?
 
@rlemon how is it more fully featured?
Last I looked nw still had a few more features
 
@Loktar @rlemon @SomeGuy Preference of games, Electron is a client for my game and will be much better because of UDP sockets
 
well it's newer so it must be better
 
4:04 PM
I am just wondering if you guys prefer
 
Essentially the chrome engine ripped from the UI
 
@RoyiNamir Then no.
 
@Loktar I haven't hit them yet, but last week I was looking at comparison tables and Electron wins
 
Browser Based Games, Or Don't mind downloading games ?
 
I'll try to find it
 
4:04 PM
@Abhishrek Don't mind downloading
 
@Abhishrek I prefer games that are downloaded. Even better if they have an offline single player option.
 
@Abhishrek idc
one that is finished :p
 
@Loktar Oh mine is close to finish now
I am just wondering if I should go with Peer Servers or Dedicated Servers
 
@Loktar here is the page: tangiblejs.com/posts/nw-js-electron-compared good thing you questioned it, I was reading the table backwards
thought Electron was the first column :P
 
@Loktar also what is the estimate on your game :D
 
4:06 PM
Maybe sometime - never
somewhere in there
 
but for what I care about, Electron is better
at least, on paper
 
does anyone know if, using the built in routing in angular (not ui-router), if you can have a resolve dependency based on the result of another resolve dependency?
 
@Loktar ouch
 
@Abhishrek which game? cc @Loktar
 
@FlorianMargaine the grapple
 
4:09 PM
ah
I still play that now and then
 
^ +1
 
@SterlingArcher also blog.avangardo.com/2013/12/…
there are a few types of nosql databases, with a few options in each
 
for your players and reporting, you'll probably want a document database and run a map/reduce job
@FlorianMargaine oh! that's the page I was looking for
@ton.yeung popularity, I think
 
4:12 PM
like the tiobe index
just a vague score based on mentions
 
I need 31 more rep to become super uber 1337
 
Guys, if apache shows its page on 10.10.1.1 (not my real IP), but gives a 403 when I try to go into a page.. is that an apache config issue or permissions?
Permiissions are: -rw-r--r--
I'm not sure, let me check
 
what is in your access_log and error_log?
especially the error log
 
yeah, that ^
 
4:16 PM
They just told me I'm too expensive to be working on things when other companies offer a turn-key solution. I feel kinda insulted lol
Related, I've always had a hard time pricing estimated time to completion on projects. Any tips?
 
@Waxi that's the opposite?
@Waxi get a better crystal ball
 
just the one
sorry
 
Trying to find the logs, but /var/log/httpd/ doesn't have error_log in it
 
@SterlingArcher print your httpd conf (or the conf.d/something for the subdomain)
 
what does it have?
 
4:19 PM
@SterlingArcher look in the conf
 
does this make sense?
function await(target, name, descriptor) {
  let fn = descriptor.value;
  return async function () {
    return await fn();
  }
}
 
you wanna name your method a keyword you use inside of it ? ?
no that makes no sense
 
@corvid which await is a keyword and which is a name?
your code is bad and you should feel bad
 
Hi, Can I ask here what kind tool or starter plugin using on a website?
 
yes, but don't expect answers?
 
4:20 PM
@ssube I feel you
 
@AwalGarg oh yes
 
Changing the name does not fix it either in the babel REPL
 
still needed to be done
 
are you trying to decorate methods to become async?
 
<Directory "/var/www">
    AllowOverride None
    Require all granted
</Directory>

# Further relax access to the default document root:
<Directory "/var/www/html">

    Options Indexes FollowSymLinks
    AllowOverride None
    Require all granted
</Directory>
I'm not even sure if this is the proper httpd.conf. There's multiple of them, one in var... another in etc
you mean sites available/enabled?
 
4:24 PM
you have AllowOverride None and then Options on a subdir?
I don't think that's right
 
I think that's all default
 
are you sure there's no error log?
 
crl
Is it bad to use stopPropagation()? kind of like !important in css?
 
@ssube AllowOverride is just for .htaccess afaik
 
just sudo find /var/log/httpd -name "*error*"
 
4:25 PM
@ssube not that I saw, lemme try a find
 
@ton.yeung That's a good way of saying it. I have the hardest time giving out accurate estimates. I almost always underestimate because I'm eager to deliver and make the client happy, but I have no method to my estimation and that's probably the biggest problem. I've struggled with this my entire career and it's a question that comes up all the time, "how long will it take you to finish x?". So I legitimately ask, any helpful advice when it comes to estimating time to completion?
 
@SterlingArcher debian or centos?
 
Hrrmmm they're there. Maybe I need to sudo ls
 
/var/log is all root-only
sudo su to become root and then read the logs
 
or sudo -i
 
4:26 PM
@FlorianMargaine DebiOS: Old, Unstable Packages
 
I don't know if there's a difference
@ssube ah, wheezy?
:P
 
<Directory /var/www/>
        Options Indexes FollowSymLinks
        AllowOverride All
        Require all granted
</Directory>
$ sudo service apache2 restart
should sort you out
 
> [Mon Feb 01 03:42:09.219872 2016] [autoindex:error] [pid 3976] [client 10.12.129.77:7193] AH01276: Cannot serve directory /var/www/html/: No matching DirectoryIndex (index.html,index.php) found, and s
hmmmmm
 
@ton.yeung Do you give yourself padding for things that you can't foresee and may be out of your control? This burns me a lot.
 
(I could've said etch, but that'd be a stretch yo)
 
4:28 PM
@FlorianMargaine Put your sunglasses back on and go sit down.
 
@ssube :D
 
@Waxi But imagine how happy your clients will be if you come in slightly under schedule and budget.
 
@SterlingArcher try what I posted
it's been a long time since I apache'd tho
 
kk lemme try
 
4:29 PM
@rlemon you'd rather apalachee amirite?!
 
90% of the cost associated with programming should be the effort, not the duration. you pay me a lot because of the years it took to learn what I know, in order for me to complete the task in X days.
@FlorianMargaine Zing!
 
@ton.yeung I didn't know it was called slack, thank you. And I'm trying to wrap my head around this effort and duration, never heard of it like that.
@ssube I think that would be the goal for anyone right?
 
@rlemon more seriously: what's your tribe?
 
Swampy Cree
 
@Waxi he's kidding
 
4:32 PM
Still forbidden
fuck
 
@Waxi For any planning, you get an idea of what the work is, compare it to what you've done before, and get a rough estimate. Pick out a few parts that seem high-risk, add some padding to them (list it as padding), and take that to the client as your rough cost.
 
Is httpd not apache?
I had to do sudo service httpd restart instead of apache2
 
@SterlingArcher RH systems call Apache 2 httpd
 
It's commonly called apache
but technically no
 
4:33 PM
I haven't seen that gif in ages
 
@SterlingArcher you are restarting apache between right?
 
Between what?
I restarted after the conf change
 
changes
 
k
 
4:34 PM
I'm taking notes on all of this, so thanks guys. Picking out high-risk things is a good place for me to start since that's what bites me the most. And I think I've been doing it wrong this whole time, charging on duration and not effort.
 
duration and effort are the same
 
lol
-5
Q: SOLVED: Why is my website so broken in IE?

Jay BauerUPDATE: I discovered the issue, yay downvotes. It turns out the issue was because it was running in IE7 Standards mode. Had to add this to the head: <meta http-equiv="X-UA-Compatible" content="IE=Edge"> Sorry if this is old news, but there ya go. I know this is a very general question, but le...

 
@ssube not really (in the context we're painting)
 
take a project, break it into chunks, estimate the chunks, add it together, multiply by 50 for pay
 
effort is knowledge, duration is LoC written
 
4:35 PM
or 100, if you're fancy
 
@Waxi that depends if you're hourly
 
> 61:65234] AH00035: access to /phpunit.xml denied (filesystem path '/var/www/html/phpunit.xml') because search permissions are missing on a component of the path
 
it's usually better to bill hourly
if you do it on effort, it's a bet
 
1
Q: What is the resolution value of a chained Promise if a then handler doesn't return anything?

dmansfieldIf a then handler has no return statement, the resulting chained promise takes on the value undefined in bluebird. But I cannot see anywhere that it is specified in Promises/A+ or anywhere? Can this behavior be counted on? Here's a test program: var Promise = require('bluebird'); var p = Pro...

 
(that you lose most of the time)
 
4:37 PM
yea I bill hourly, but my hourly wage is based on how much knowledge I have
 
TL;DR - I'm salary and they want me to weight the costs of me doing it compared to another company doing it, but I struggle with estimating my time, which is why this is being discussed.
 
@SterlingArcher namei -mo /var/www/html/phpunit.xml
 
@MadaraUchiha play nice
 
It's everything in the html directory
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum fo
 
4:38 PM
@rlemon I used to do that, but I prefer salary.
 
Another problem that surfaces frequently, is additional requests being thrown in when you've already started development. I usually just say OK, I'll do it, but maybe I shouldn't.
 
@ssube so do I
I don't often take on contract work
@Waxi say no to creeping scopes
 
@Waxi Tell them to plan it later, when you've finished the initial work.
 
> sorry, version 2. version 1 has been finalized
 
^^
 
4:39 PM
the trick is, there never is a version 2
 
lmao
 
there's 4,000 other projects that come before v2
all with higher priority, each with their own v2
 
Never completely refuse work, that goes over poorly.
 
yup
just delegate it for later or on someone else
 
but finalize scope except for minor changes (move the modal to the left, switch the columns)
anything else should be DLC or you'll end up like Batman
 
4:40 PM
bugs are fine. usability issues are fine. feature requests after it has been signed off on is not fine
 
Batman, the game...
 
Time for lunch, but yall gave me plenty to think about, thanks!!
 
@Waxi you can say "ok, but this pushes such and such, maybe we should rearrange priorities, and it'll cost such more"
 
!!afk big geasy burger which I will probably regret
 
I can't tell sarcasm for shit in text :\
 
4:41 PM
@Waxi never say no. It's bad business.
 
I just keep a running list of the additional changes, then when i have time plot out how it would change the timeframe/priorities and get it signed off on.
 
Idk if I'd say never say no... saying no is a key part of the job sometimes
 
@tymeJV you just say "yes but"
 
you can say no and still qualify the decision
 
@ssube v
 namei -mo /var/www/html/phpunit.xml
f: /var/www/html/phpunit.xml
 dr-xr-xr-x root root /
 drwxr-xr-x root root var
 drwxr-xr-x root root www
 drwxr-xr-x root root html
 -rw-r--r-- root root phpunit.xml
should they be owned by root?
 
4:43 PM
I could walk to the moon with enough time and money
 
@SterlingArcher that all need to be apache owned
 
everything?
 
I'm hungry
 
@SterlingArcher Everything you want apache to read, yes.
 
I had yogurt and a sugar-free monster for breakfast
 
4:44 PM
What distro?
 
I'm not sure let me ask
 
@AwalGarg nice going on HN
 
@SterlingArcher cat /etc/issue
 
Yogurt is the most amazing food. It has calcium, and loads of protein, but also contains some amazing bacteria that will make your stomach feel like it's walking on sunshine.
 
@SterlingArcher chown apache:apache -R /var/www
 
4:46 PM
@MadaraUchiha my talk has a slide doing this followed by a slide of SPJ laughing his ass off
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum :D
 
@ssube depends on the distro...
 
@ssube it's www-data on some distros.
 
It looks like a serious violation of SoC, something you'd want to do outside of Redux and dispatch actions normally.
Rather than decorate dispatch() or createStore().
 
@BenFortune fecked ones
 
4:48 PM
I have some hummus at home that's really good. It has pickles in it, strangely. It's amazing.
 
Also, huge global god object.
 
@ssube awesome ones* FTFY
 
I want to make my own home-made hummus.
 
namei -mo /var/www/html/phpunit.xml
f: /var/www/html/phpunit.xml
 dr-xr-xr-x root   root   /
 drwxr-xr-x apache apache var
 drwxr-xr-x apache apache www
 drwxr-xr-x apache apache html
 -rw-r--r-- apache apache phpunit.xml
Still 403 >=(
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum "Wormhole" sounds suspiciously close to "Service Locator" or "Singleton"
 
4:50 PM
@ton.yeung fertilizer? Hummus? what
 
@SterlingArcher RHEL or Debian-based?
 
CentOS apparently
 
@BenFortune clearly RHEL
or the chown apache wouldn't work
@SterlingArcher logs
 
In soil science, humus (coined 1790–1800; from the Latin humus: earth, ground) refers to the fraction of soil organic matter that is amorphous and without the "cellular structure characteristic of plants, micro-organisms or animals." Humus significantly influences the bulk density of soil and contributes to moisture and nutrient retention. Soil formation begins with the weathering of humus. In agriculture, humus is sometimes also used to describe mature, or natural compost extracted from a forest or other spontaneous source for use to amend soil. It is also used to describe a topsoil horizon that...
 
Ah
 
4:50 PM
sudo -i
dammit
 
@MadaraUchiha a service locator and a dependency injection container are the same thing minux whether or not the component asks for stuff or gets it. It's legit.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Fair enough
 
@FlorianMargaine Good point.
 
@ton.yeung lol
 
> [Wed Feb 03 03:47:31.468584 2016] [core:error] [pid 22562] (13)Permission denied: [client 10.12.129.61:50842] AH00132: file permissions deny server access: /var/www/html/phpunit.xml
 
4:52 PM
How to escape htm-tags? I want to print <strong> on the output of html page jsfiddle.net/whdhavn9
 
if i have an iframe in my app which frames content from another site with a different origin, how can i make that work? i stumbled upon X-Frame-Options, but not sure which server that needs to be in...
 
@Shafizadeh What have you tried?
 
@SterlingArcher can I see the full apache conf?
 
@MadaraUchiha listen to the talk
 
@MadaraUchiha I read somewhere <pre> is for doing that, and I tested
 
4:53 PM
@Shafizadeh look up HTML Entities, and see if you can find the ones that you need.
 
@SterlingArcher Try chmod 774 on phpunit.xml
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I already know how to use connect with context
 
@SterlingArcher sudo getenforce
 
@ssube Oh god forgot about how awful selinux was.
 
@ton.yeung No, Redux.
 
4:54 PM
@ndugger Do you mean I have to create something like this? &lt;strong&gt;
 
@BenFortune awful? I actually leave it on on every box I own
iptables and selinux. If an app doesn't work under them, I don't use it.
 
@Shafizadeh Try it out and tell me
 
shawermascript
 
One of the few things I like about RHEL is firewall-cmd
 
@Kamran Welcome to the JavaScript chat! Please review the room rules. Please don'task if you can ask or if anyone's around; just ask your question, and if anyone's free and interested they'll help.
 
4:55 PM
iptables can suck a fat one.
 
@BenFortune heh. I uninstall that and install iptables.
 
@ndugger Yes it works, but is it a standard way?
 
@Shafizadeh Yes, for the most part.
 
Ah, ok tnx
 
@FlorianMargaine how do I copy an entire file in vim to paste?
I'm trying to get you my conf page
 
4:59 PM
@SterlingArcher's music taste never changed from 7th grade
 
@SterlingArcher use your terminal
 
@SterlingArcher just use cat?
 
@ton.yeung Nope. I'm calling him out
 

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