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3:00 PM
@ElginBeloy Welcome to the JavaScript chat! Please review the room pseudo-rules. Please don't ask if you can ask or if anyone's around; just ask your question, and if anyone's free and interested they'll help.
 
Okay
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Linking is bitch weird and magical
 
Oh, well - I want to be able to load either synchronously or asynchronously, I want to be able to set a base path or set the library source, I want an API for unloading things and not just loading them with clear 'module destructor's.
@Zirak yup, like I keep telling Awal - it's a really hard problem :D
 
crl
unloading? what's the point? saving ressources? avoiding conflicts
 
One of the problems I (read: one who uses C and friends) constantly have when compiling non-statically is how the linker does stuff
 
3:02 PM
@crl hot swapping parts of the server without restarting it. Saving resources is also a biggie.
 
crl
ok
 
@Zirak yup - in fact it's so hard C++ has been trying to get modules for a while and are running into issues.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum All of that is possible by joining together parts of the current tooling with which TC had nothing to do (or whatwg, for that matter). Just because it won't cater to some edge cases in the end doesn't mean we shouldn't get something working.
 
+1 for hot swapping...which will never be available natively and easily
 
@Zirak except in VMs that support it. dlls that run on the CLR do a pretty decent job, so do Java jars, but I think a winner here is the erlang vm.
@AwalGarg now is better than never, although never is often better than right now.
 
3:04 PM
Erlang's VM is pretty much the only VM with the intention of hot swapping
 
That's in production use, but erlang has a shit ecosystem.
 
Hacking the Google FooBar challenges time is unstintingly easy. Does Google even care if you cheat the challenge with minimal Java and JavaSciprt knowlegde
 
@ElginBeloy they really don't.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum huh, funny that you say, you know better than me how long harmony has taken to formulate. And here we are with stuff that python got a lot of time ago.
 
@AwalGarg like what?
 
3:05 PM
@AwalGarg One of the beautiful thing we have is "the extensible web" - you've probably heard it, but it basically means that if the platform provides the bare minimum for something, lets the users iterate and improve, and then considers thickening it up
The thing is, you can't have that with modules
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Wow, thought I was going to get an internship there from finishing the challenge. Maybe not XD
 
don't get me wrong. I think the TC does a lot of stupid shit, I'm yearning for a BDFL that'll save us from the steaming pile of shit that's where JS is headed. It'll get better before it'll get worse but boy it'll get worse.
 
crl
I can't even log in this foobar
 
We have require/commonjs, but once they went down the syntax road it'll have to be nailed pretty hard
 
Did you also get the challenge
 
3:06 PM
@AwalGarg python's imports/exports is pretty shit
 
@crl
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum usual list of stuff like unpacking stuff (destructuring is great and all but..), generators, lambdas, proxies, whatever
 
crl
@ElginBeloy can't log in I said
 
Ohhh
You have to be accepted
 
@ElginBeloy google's policy is "get as many people as possible to interview and then filter at that stage".
 
3:07 PM
From googling proggraming shit
Well damn
The challenge is much to hard to do that
 
crl
I'm redirected to /denied To log in, you have to have logged in before. Confused? Search on..
 
Im on the final problem and crying XD
 
@AwalGarg destructuring introduces way too much comlexity IMO. It has too many rules, I would have gone for the much weaker Python version.
 
Yup
 
@AwalGarg Point being? (besides that python was hardly the one to innovate on any of those)
 
crl
3:08 PM
@ElginBeloy how are you accepted?
 
(especially doing a poor job on lambdas)
 
Just look up google foobar chalenge
and yea
If you want to be just start googling all proggraming related proxies
 
@Zirak Python's poor job on lambdas is intentional, and actually pretty clever. Their poor job on async/await on the other hand...
 
@Zirak that TC took tooo long to include all this in ES, and it (and whatwg) is still taking too long to get modules in. I can see they are yearning for something perfect, but think about it: what in JS is perfect?
 
@crl It will flag you and give you the challenge
 
3:09 PM
They got async await too right, requiring all the C# magic from Python programmers (like synchronizaton contexts, an explicit event loop and all that) is nasty and mean.
 
crl
well no time for this now, but ok
 
@AwalGarg by all means - go help.
Worst case you'll learn what problems are keeping them from progressing.
 
Yea XD im only 14 so I have all the time in the world to do google's dumbass challenes
challenges
 
@ElginBeloy or build stuff - which is likely a more productive use of your time :)
 
I know
I already build a couple published apps
Which is pretty good for my age my dad says (He is a scrumMaster in IT)
 
3:10 PM
> The elm-html library outperforms even React.js in TodoMVC benchmarks, and it is super simple to optimize your code by sprinkling in some lazy rendering. source
so so
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I disagree that they produced something clever. That they didn't want to encourage inline function is okay, but the syntax and limitations make it seem like most cases of correct usage of lambdas is too weird and out of place
 
@ElginBeloy lel
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I do know some of the problems from lurking around the discussions in esdiscuss and on the gh issues of whatwg's loader standard (like loader not being good for node, browser doesn't wanna hang etc) but I think they are really just trying to aim for way too much perfection
 
lel?
Never heard that before
 
That's like a lol.
 
3:11 PM
Oh
wow
sad
Final challenge. Having some trouble with initizlizing a list of BigIntegers all of the elements not delcared are null, but I want the entire list to be zero
 
@Zirak that's entirely intentional. Python's philosophy is that the problem functional programming helps solve is 90% of the time is processing data declaratively. They believe non-strictness/laziness should be explicit. They believe, and deliver imperative data processing.
 
I know I can do it with a for loop
but that is heavy crap
 
crl
@ElginBeloy Java?
 
Yea
Thatsmy BAE
 
crl
wrong room then :)
 
3:12 PM
@AwalGarg What's your argument? That the TC is taking too long to deliver?
 
Just trying
 
@Zirak Yes. And whatwg too.
 
I know I know
 
@AwalGarg Design by committee ftw.
 
If anyone has a Idea I just posted a question
0
Q: How to set all element values in a non-primitive type array as a value/not null?

Elgin BeloyFrom my knowledge when you create a pointer (non-primitive type) it is null until it is assigned. With primitive types it has a default value of zero. So for instance say I have the following code: int value[numberOfDesiredElements]; //all values are zero, not null value[anyElement] == null ? re...

 
3:13 PM
If that's it then that's exactly why they're yearning for yearly releases. ES3 was 1999, ES5 was 2009(ish?).
(nevermind that I believe how mistaken the yearly releases are, or that the size of the ES6 spec makes me sad)
 
crl

Java

Dedicated to the discussion of the Java programming language a...
 
@ElginBeloy what exactly you think your computer does to set a list of things to zero? for loops are fast.
 
I am dying to see what next year's release will have new to offer.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Then don't include lambdas
 
Not when your working with 2012 ^ 5000 power for loops are not
XD
Its a big ass chalenge
 
3:14 PM
They failed to please anyone and merely added syntax
 
@Zirak the BDFL mostly considers that a mistake, apparently they were pressured into the language by perl people.
@ElginBeloy erm, I don't think you understand what I'm trying to say.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum BDFL and I agree that they're not clever then, where does that leave you, punk?
 
@ElginBeloy when you want to set a memory to zeros, you have to loop it.
@Zirak clever is being able to get away with looking like he pleased them but actually sneaking in very weak lambdas :P
 
It seems that might be the only way
I was looking for a better alternative
Faster...
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Your use of the word "clever" oddly sounds like "stupid"
 
3:16 PM
@ElginBeloy No, but I don't want to ruin the challenge for you, it's a fun one.
 
LAMMMEEEE
 
@Zirak how clever of you.
 
Did you get it?
 
@Zirak what is the problem with something being in the language? don't use them? How valid do you think is calling JS bad because it had with?
 
crl
or I misunderstand your question
 
3:17 PM
Its so hard I was about to run out of time then said screw it and fucked with theyre time server giving me 3 more days
 
@ElginBeloy wow, you must be a leet haxor.
 
There might be someone with some case where python's lambda like lambdas make sense and he'd use them. (Not me. I hardly see them being used either)
 
@ElginBeloy syntax errors ...
 
crl
@ElginBeloy BigInteger[] array= new BigInteger[numberOfDesiredElements];
 
@KarelG he's a kid, don't bite.
 
3:18 PM
@AwalGarg I think js is pretty bad, and I also with python is bad. For me to think python was bad merely because it screwed up lambdas would be incredibly stupid. I'm not that stupid.
Neither are you. So I fail to see anything gained.
 
Thanks
@BenjaminGruenbaum
 
@Zirak I don't understand the reasoning behind "then don't include lambdas", but I now realize you might not have meant that literally :/
 
crl
@ElginBeloy you can create a wrapper of BigInteger that returns 0
wrapper or child class
 
@Zirak I think Python is a better language than JS, but it has a much smaller ecosystem for UI which makes it a worse choice for that.
 
@ElginBeloy it's not clear if you want an array of list. Both are different
 
3:20 PM
@AwalGarg That was it, pretty literally. If they didn't want lambdas then they shouldn't have included it. If they wanted lambdas they should've done a better job.
 
(array is a fixed collection, while list is a dynamic collection)
 
no
just an array
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum And I think your face is full of poo
 
array list holds pointers to objects i know this
but array is a specific data type
 
@Zirak another clever retort, aren't you full of joy today.
 
3:21 PM
like int[] = array
ArrayList<ObjectType>
 
I'm so tired
 
@Zirak What'd you do if you didn't want balloons in your birthday party but your friends who'd be coming to the party did?
 
@AwalGarg I don't have friends nor birthday parties
 
crl
@ElginBeloy did you get what I said?
 
@ElginBeloy an ArrayList is just an array with some utility methods that's safer and has dynamic size.
 
3:21 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum can confirm
 
fair enough
 
Yea
I got that
 
@AwalGarg that literally happened.
 
I want an array for this one
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum ...and?
 
3:22 PM
Well, there weren't many balloons, but no amount of "I don't want a surprise birthday party" helped him.
@AwalGarg all the guests had a blast :P
@ElginBeloy why?
 
> there weren't many balloons
 
There was no amount of that. It was just something I'd never have expected.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum HOLY FUCK, you mean that happened to @Zirak?
 
@ElginBeloy do you know what the XY problem is?
@AwalGarg no, Zirak lives in Antartica and is 97 years old, we've never met.
 
3:24 PM
I'm 95, dipshit
 
No
@BenjaminGruenbaum
 
I can see why he is so cold and stupid :P
 
i thought that zirak is from northpole ?
 
j/k
 
he's SANTA
 
3:24 PM
@ElginBeloy you're trying to solve problem Y (the array of bigintegers) instead of problem X (the challenge) and asking for help with that, I suggest you back track.
 
Santa's giving you roofies for christmas
 
Okay got you
 
@Zirak can my country have sane internet this xmas plx? kthnx
 
@AwalGarg You're getting a rusty shank and the bitter realisation you're wasting your life pursuing someone else's dreams
 
@AwalGarg only if your alias stops being a skin disease.
 
3:26 PM
Here is a link to the problem on SO
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/30521306/foobar-challenge-minions-bored-game
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum rash isn't a skin disease :D
@Zirak so... everything I had since forever? :D
 
@AwalGarg that would require for your entire country to invest in well organized project to improve communication infrastructure
 
Enjoy
 
@tereško YOU ARE NOT SANTA!
 
I am not sure you have people who actually can do shit in an organized manner
 
3:28 PM
L-O-L
 
2nd time I've seen that posted here
 
HAHAH
 
literally laughed out loud :D
 
he's even unprotected there ... * not giving a fuck *
 
The guy looks satisfied though
 
3:29 PM
@AwalGarg but is it so far for reality?
 
this looks worse: dreamstime.com/…
 
@tereško sure. happens every month next street. (but yeah, they ensure the lines are all down before anyone goes near)
 
looks fairly modern equipment: dreamstime.com/… no locale specified
I enjoy it being used as stock photos you can buy
 
so it is kinda delusional
 
awesome building in background: cache2.asset-cache.net/gc/…
 
3:32 PM
Oh gosh, Im scared for my future in IT
help me...
XD
 
ya, 2038 is just around corner, think that's the next major clock bug. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_2038_problem
 
Oh shit
Guess I know the next challenge google is going to have me do
XD
 
there is barely "hanging" electrical wires in my country. They're mostly underground ...
 
and on a nearterm note I fixed a bit of a caching bug which broke all caching.. oopsy
 
even on the location where i live (countryside)
 
3:34 PM
@KarelG you are in EU. We have trees and wind.
well ... especially in my end of EU
 
Trees and wind ? like most other places ?
 
I was in planned community with underground utilities, power etc guys prefered above ground - much eaiser to spot a problem and fix
 
Im IN AMERICA
Caps sorry
 
geez... had to cap that eh?
 
I just very proud
 
3:36 PM
I'm envisioning a captain amercia suit in your possession :)
 
crl
also you can edit, like that
 
@KarelG well. Maybe it's just a thing in Baltics. We have forests covering about a half of the land area.
 
@ElginBeloy if you want to write your country in caps, use 'MURICA instead
 
crl
@tereško is it a problem?
 
3:38 PM
Forgot
Just not redneck enough yet
 
@ElginBeloy so you must be loving the stuff happening in academia these days. Very progressive.
 
OMG
They make me tack tech class
even though Im legaly considred a prodigy
Im doing powerpoints -_-
 
crl
*modest prodigy
 
lel
 
@ElginBeloy that's in exchange of cursive, guess at least it's supported/mainted tech. I was lucky in my schools but I heard of other schools teaching unsupported tech for years after it was outdated
 
3:40 PM
@crl it's a problem for having above-ground wires. Trees break in spring/autumn storms.
 
lol
 
@ElginBeloy I've never met a prodigy that can't spell yet :D
Guess this is a first.
 
@ElginBeloy Is it written somewhere that prodigies can't bunk classes?
 
hhahaha guess so
yes
 
crl
@tereško yea, bury all the things :)
 
3:40 PM
in my heart
 
@crl that's what we have been doing
 
you cant spel either
 
crl
neither you
 
hey folks, never mind the floppy disks, this is how you sort cards
 
Purpose
 
3:41 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum well. He's from USA. That's like being the smartest kid in the remedial class.
6
 
ouch
 
@ElginBeloy You know, when I was your age I had a full time job and I didn't go on random chats telling people how smart I think I am.
Want to impress us: show us something impressive you built.
 
Ouch
Okay
 
@tereško really depends on the school district. (more so in past pre no child left behind)
 
here
 
3:42 PM
Because when I was your age I had games with 4 million views.
 
ah
 
@tereško he's just 14 :P
 
don't
I dont
 
@ElginBeloy oh thats' nifty
 
3:43 PM
thanks?
 
That has less than 50 installs and 5 reviews by your friends...
 
@ElginBeloy hey when I was 14, I was making my parents happy. Now I am smarter and they hate me :P
 
HAHAH
 
better than my 16 year old is doing :) but he can shoot a puck
 
true
 
3:43 PM
@tereško it occurs in my country too. OR at places with trees. That's why i found your remark confusing. Look to USA, they have trees too, but also "hanging" wires.
their infrastructure is just old
 
I told you i dont have a lot of dowloads
 
When I was 13 we first heard the news of Hitler's rise to power
 
@ElginBeloy fwiw do yourself a favor and get a non tech activity type hobby - it's good for life
 
I run...
 
Well, you mostly came in the room bragging about how smart you think you are - and instead of making fun of you I'm trying to help you by hopefully making you realize how stupid that makes you look.
 
3:44 PM
 
crl
that was a century ago, but Zirak's old af
 
I got it
 
what if he is really bright?
 
He'll die one day anyway
 
^--
 
3:45 PM
He might be, but most bright people I know are also modest.
 
Guess Im not
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum oh it depends.. some go about bragging and make $$ with that, lots of people want others to tell them what to do :)
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum that explains some of the "omg, I am so smart" attitude.
 
I dont think I have that atitude
attitude
 
crl
< edit, the little arrow there
 
3:46 PM
hehehe
 
Sorry forgot
 
Can you tell me how to identify if a state yields to a deadlock? :P
 
@jumpstracks lot of people just want others to like them and feel successful and that their opinions are heard. I just think people should strive to get their voices heard by making a meaningful contribution and not by yelling LISTEN TO ME IM SMART AND I MATTER. That's a big cultural problem we have these days.
@tereško definitely.
 
how do you know that he's 14 ?
(might have been told, could've missed that)
 
@AwalGarg are you asking him or the room? Because there are some really cute algorithms for that.
 
3:47 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum prodigy (I know :) but don't get started on testing me please :D:D)
 
Oh, damn, I thought we were going to have an interesting discussion on that :P
 
...
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I know you will somehow manage to make me think I don't know anything about it anyways :P
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum well in excess sure, but not bad to toot your own horn. And actually seems schools are teaching that. maybe related to participation metals and such. but at same time also good for own self worth, as there's so much competition to get a decent future along with high expectations, others aren't going to promote you, so you should toot your own horn.
 
3:49 PM
@AwalGarg well, I only had one course about it - and I could use brushing up my knowledge.
 
/me hides
 
I'm seriously not good at it, I promise.
 
/me went hiding a long time ago
 
Ok... "how to identify if a state yields to a deadlock (in context of processes requesting locks on resources). discuss".
 
@jumpstracks real self worth is built out of discipline, real accomplishment and hard work. No one gets actual self worth out of being told they're smart or important - that just builds a very deep lack of confidence and imposter syndrome. I with more people got that.
 
3:50 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum go
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum you have to start with a bit of an ego to not be afraid to fail :)
 
crl
like Dining Philosophers problem?
 
@jumpstracks No, you really don't.
 
How do you guys know I haven't done hard work?
 
We're not talking about you anymore. I thought that much was obvious.
We're talking about education paradigms.
 
3:52 PM
?
sorry
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum well, don't think that one can be logically discussed, it's just a belief. I believe a bit of ego is good. perhaps have to was too strong, how about, it helps
@BenjaminGruenbaum woah.. I'm not that bright nor versed to talk abotu educational paradigms :)
 
@jumpstracks I believe ego is destructive, I believe our world is filled with wars, ignorance and destruction because of ego.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum bit - as in small amount of ego, otherwise you're just a tool to someone elses ego
oh I'm in USA as well
 
he is proposing a world of "no ego", so "someone elses ego" doesn't exist
 
You need to have that fighting spirit, you need to be hungry and you need to want to succeed. I think ego is an artifact not a goal.
 
3:54 PM
sorta captalistic doggy dog world to me
 
You mean dog eat dog right?
 
ya artifact is fair
sure, if you want to spell it out :)
 
Or do you mean the Snoop Dogg song that makes a pun of that :P
 
uh, sorry, not familar with that version of it
 
What exactly do you think a "doggy dog" world is?
 
3:55 PM
dog eat dog. (old phrase)
anyhooo
 
So anyway, deadlock detection @AwalGarg
Teach me an interesting algorithm :D
I'm in a learning mood.
 
mutex?
heh, don't even know if they're called that in js land :)
 
JS is single threaded and only has cooperative multitasking, but you can easily create a mutex in that environment using coroutines and promises.
 
@AwalGarg Browserify won't work either because 'require.resolve' vOv
 

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