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5:25 PM
sold for 130k
 
@Loktar This sounds like it would interest you youtube.com/watch?v=14wqBA5Q1yc
 
Oh my
The 3 years old PC of my wife just got a kernel panic. Hardware error. It randomly froze since 2 days... Looks like it's time to seriously consider Chromebooks.
Anyone tried the 11"?
 
@KendallFrey wow man.. thats really cool
 
cc @SomeKittens ^
 
the hp 11 @FlorianMargaine?
mines 11" perfect size for a laptop imo
 
5:32 PM
Does anyone develop on a Chromebook?
 
@Loktar Good for a laptop, even better for ...
 
@Unihedro I've seen you got answers from @FlorianMargaine . Ask me if you need more (it might be easier on Miaou)
 
lol
 
@dystroy Is there a Meta room on Miaou, actually?
 
@NathanJones I have.. but I installed ubuntu on mine :P
 
5:33 PM
I couldn't find one though, so I just asked in here.
 
there are some clode based ide's that are nice, such as cloud9 that you can use on the chromebook
 
@Loktar I like cloud9.
 
@Loktar In case you haven't seen SethBling before, he's basically the god of Minecraft. He makes all sorts of amazing shit.
 
@FlorianMargaine I had the Pixel.
 
@KendallFrey He used to work for Microsoft before switching to games.
 
5:34 PM
Was very nice
 
the Pixel looked so nice..
 
I think I had heard that
 
Which gives tribute to his intelligence, so there's that.
 
but seemed way over spec'd for chromeos
 
@Unihedro There's this room : http://dystroy.org/miaou/1?Miaou
And there's also the JS room
 
5:34 PM
Heh, I'm in the Java room on Miaou.
 
warning: I don't have a lot of time tonight
@Unihedro There's a Java room on Miaou ?
 
@Loktar I heard a rumor that the Pixel was designed for testing Android apps
thus the touchscreen and high-rez
 
ahh that makes sense
 
@dystroy Yeah, the users of Java chat on SO made it
 
@Unihedro it's dead
 
5:37 PM
It is. How unfortunate..
 
TBH I think all the active rooms are in French
 
@Unihedro Do you pay for cloud 9? Is it less slwo when you do?
 
@Luggage It's free (for public ones at least). I don't use a subscription plan because I never needed one, but it's been great help so far. I might get a paid plan down the line, but
I really only use it when I'm at school and need to SSH on those rusty Windows XP computers...
It won't even run putty
 
Right. My point was the free one seems slow. I was curious if paying made it faster.
 
5:41 PM
Oh, it wasn't really slow to me. I'm not sure though.
 
ok.
 
I can collab with two other people in python code with no problem, so.
 
@Loktar yeah
@Loktar you have it?
 
hello once again
I need help with a code-academy problem. The output is what it should but my solution is not the right one apparently.
var james = {
    job: "programmer",
    married: false
};
// set to the first property name of "james"
var aProperty = james["job"]
// print the value of the first property of "james"
// using the variable "aProperty"
console.log(aProperty)
>>> programmer
The error Oops, try again. Do you have the variable 'aProperty' between brackets?
 
Link to actual challenge?
 
5:47 PM
does the link work?
 
I solved the problem
but yeah, bad phrasing there
 
@FlorianMargaine care to rephrase?
 
your console.log must use the james variable too
 
// set to the first property name of "james"
better phrased
// set the variable to the first property name in 'james'
i think
 
user4330208
Hello ladies and gentlemen, and trans.
 
5:53 PM
so I need change my console.log() line?
 
well, the aProperty variable is wrong too
 
I tried james.job and james["job"] but still get an error
 
@Vader Those are identical
 
yep, you're missing the subtlety of the brackets notation :)
 
@SomeKittens yeah, I know. I am getting desperate :D
 
5:54 PM
and those return 'values'
you're looking for the property 'name' or 'key'
 
@rlemon so job?
 
try it
 
finally got it
var james = {
    job: "programmer",
    married: false
};

// set to the first property name of "james"
var aProperty = Object.keys(james)[0];

// print the value of the first property of "james"
// using the variable "aProperty"
console.log(james[aProperty])
 
huzzah!
 
6:01 PM
is that what you guys got as well?
 
now, do you understand the difference?
 
var aProperty ='job'; is what I would have done
 
yeah, it wanted the name key
@rlemon you're probably right, because we didn't learn Object.keys yet
 
Object.keys is definitely the "rightest" (readas: dynamic and fairly future-proof) solution, with aProperty = 'job' being the obvious one.
 
'first' property assumes we can assure order of object keys
unless they mean first visually, in which case 'job' and not Object.keys is more future proof ;P
 
6:06 PM
what is the typeof of typeof and why is the function call so different from what I have seen so far? console.log( typeof aString );
why is it not Object.typeof or typeof(Object)
 
typeof may be an operator
@rlemon worrying about the semantics of the instructions of contrived examples bring the whole system crashing down into ambiguity and chaos :P
 
is MDN the new w3schools?
 
Better
 
MDN is a very good reference for most things, although not always 100% complete.
 
6:09 PM
W3Schools is usually wrong, often with major security risks.
 
How good is devdocs.io ?
 
And it's prettier
 
@ssube what??? why is it always #1 in every js search
 
You should generally avoid w3schools.
@Vader seo and linkbait. They're better than they used to be, but still not a reliable source.
 
#1 in search means it's just the lowest common denominator.
 
6:11 PM
normally you can rely on google to give you the best though
@ssube seo?
 
@Vader Meh, duckduckgo.com rules
 
w3schools spent most of their time making sure they were the first result, not the best result.
 
@Unihedro I though so too, then I missed the good instant results, like currency conversion, weather
 
@ssube And they cheat their way by adding subdomains referring to themselves.
 
MDN occasionally has old FF-specific stuff nobody cares about, but is pretty fair and reliable.
 
6:12 PM
@Vader Well you can implement those into DDG yourself to improve it: duckduckhack.com
 
does JS have it own documentation like python does
 
@Vader MDN
 
@Vader Not quite. It has a specification, which is useful when you get into super complicated stuff. Otherwise, MDN or MSDN (thanks @Luggage)
 
@Unihedro that mozilla though, isn't google the creator of JS?
 
6:13 PM
2 messages moved to Trash can
 
so.. 2 times?
 
@Vader You mean ECMA?
 
There isn't a reference implementation of JS (that I know of), so nobody to maintain the "official" docs
 
:21137266 Reputation is a poor indicator of knowledge.
Oh, that was to @carb0nshel1, whose messages were trashed, and I agree with the operation.
 
@Unihedro gotta look that up
@Unihedro do you use ddg b/c it doesn't track you?
 
6:15 PM
@Vader JS was created long, long ago in a dark time, back when horrible beings such as AOL walked the earth.
3
 
166 rep? That's cute.
 
@Vader No, I use it because I don't want to open my browser in order to use a search engine.
I query thru their API.
 
@Unihedro what OS are you using?
 
sup burritos
 
@taco sup taco
 
6:16 PM
It's now standardized and maintained by the ECMA, but the specification is just that (very detailed, not good for quick reference).
 
@Vader That's not relevant, I'm using http requests through my text editor.
 
user4330208
K, my comments were trashed but its true. w3Schools is good for learning the basics very quickly, MDN is good for deeper knowledge. That being said it makes sense to start with W3schools and then move on to more advanced sources like MDN.
 
@Unihedro but when you search it links you websites doesn't it? to view those websites you have to be a browser
 
@Vader EH NO
I'm sorry
 
6:17 PM
@carb0nshel1 w3schools is not a good source, even for the basics. We're actually trying to be helpful here, please do the same.
 
wow, Here I was w3school bookmarked
 
MDN and MSDN have a much wider breadth and tend to be more accurate.
 
Press F12, and enter this:
 
@RyanKinal This would be my WWE intro
 
$.post('http://api.duckduckgo.com/?q=duck&format=json&pretty=1')
 
6:18 PM
Haha
 
MDN is occasionally FF-specific and MSDN can be IE-specific, but those parts are marked as such.
 
@Unihedro I am in chrome
 
!!> 13759/166
 
@carb0nshel1 avoid w3s at all costs unless you know exactly what you're looking for and wanna have a laugh/facepalm
 
@SomeKittens 82.8855421686747
 
user4330208
6:18 PM
@ssube. Which site would you recommend to a complete newb
 
I'm 82.9 times smarter than @carb0nshel1 !
 
lol
 
@Vader Chrome uses Rhino for Javascript in consoles, and it obeys using F12 to open developer tools.
 
 
Actually, it might fail since DDG doesn't use no-origin.
 
6:19 PM
I actually think the terribleness of w3schools is overstated.
 
@carb0nshel1 Codecademy and the like are usually pretty good at getting the basics across. The exercises can be contrived, but show certain semantics pretty clearly.
 
should f12 split the browser horizontally?
 
@Retsam false
@Vader false
 
Once you know the language in a rough sense, MDN/MSDN cover the DOM and browser-specific stuff pretty well.
 
Chrome... uses... Rhino?
wat?
 
6:19 PM
@RyanKinal nope, v8
 
user4330208
Just because a site has some flaws doesn't mean to completly boycott it. W3school has many advantages, just put it in perspective.
 
1 min ago, by Unihedro
@Vader Chrome uses Rhino for Javascript in consoles, and it obeys using F12 to open developer tools.
 
@Unihedro I could have sworn that inspect element used to open on the bottom
 
@carb0nshel1 false - it's not bad, it's absymal
 
@Retsam anything good these days is at least maintained/updated by a community
 
6:20 PM
@Retsam They did improve a lot of it once w3fools started posting specific issues.
 
user4330208
w3Fools.com is even better tho
 
I wouldn't say it's anything like MDN's quality, though.
 
@Unihedro Hey, if you want to have a conversation, have a conversation. Don't just say "false", that's not discussion that's just contradiction.
 
@Unihedro well I did learn the Object.keys thign from w3
 
I think there are definitely better resources; as ssube says, CodeAcademy for learning and MDN for reference, but there doesn't need to be this massive stigma against w3schools.
 
6:21 PM
@Retsam It promotes bad behaviour and is ambiguously vague about semantics, among several dozens of boxes of books worth of rants I'm going to save for some peace here.
 
w3s must at least start accepting public comments on their help pages, that's the minimum rewamp to get back some trust
 
w3schools is bad.
 
user4330208
@Unihedro I think it depends on the goals of the user.
 
@Retsam The stigma is largely left over from when it used to be plain wrong. Now, it's just confusing, which still isn't great for newbs. MDN, on the other hand, requires some knowledge to be useful.
 
so MDN is what I should use to look up js & html & css stuff?
 
6:22 PM
@carb0nshel1 I'm not sure what feedback to give here, you assumed?
 
@Vader Pretty much, yeah.
 
@Vader Yes.
 
MDN is kind pretty
 
@Vader If you have a specific question ("how does Object.keys() work?"), yep. It will tell you exactly what's going on.
 
@Vader devdocs.io <- scrapper from MDN, more organized
 
6:23 PM
ironically w3 isn't
 
user4330208
No, if someone is a COMPLETE newb and wants to get up and going in the shortest amount of time possible - I can't think of a better reference than w3Schools.
 
@Unihedro not bad, where does it get the HTML and CSS from?
 
@carb0nshel1 Have you used CodeAcademy?
 
user4330208
Yes
 
@Vader it scraps popular documentation sources
 
6:23 PM
just for kicks I just looked at w3schools for loops tutorial.
this is their example
for (i = 0; i < cars.length; i++) {
    text += cars[i] + "<br>";
}
 
user4330208
I failed
 
user4330208
I've even used treehouse.
 
@carb0nshel1 Codeacademy, or even devdoodle
 
@carb0nshel1 mdn, code academy code.org but more importantly KhanAcademy which has a great JavaScript as a first language course written by John Resig with interactive video tutorials.
 
@carb0nshel1 That's just you..
 
6:24 PM
@rlemon ooh, a <br>. I haven't seen one of those since 1993.
 
@carb0nshel1 I am using codeacdemy an am liking it very much, but ofc I respect you
 
orite, I'm home
finally
 
@ssube global i
 
@rlemon haha
 
Lol @ global i.
 
6:24 PM
@rlemon what is <br>
 
/close as too localized
 
@Vader html for "new line"
 
user4330208
@Vader you tried to kill your own son in the 1st movie so w/e
 
@carb0nshel1 I am the new and improved vader
 
Vader.js
 
6:25 PM
vader.py
 
@Vader s/new.+?improved//
 
user4330208
batman.js
 
@carb0nshel1 Spoilers, dude.
 
@carb0nshel1 nope.js
wait, .avi
 
user4330208
troll.js is my fav
 
6:26 PM
I'm just looking for an excuse for the jQuery quote
Please someone say jQuery promotes bad code in newbs
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum You should totally drop looking for excuses for the jquery quote and use jquery
 
okay.jpeg
 
"jQuery promotes bad code in newbs" - @BenjaminGruenbaum
 
I am waiting
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum jQuery encourages a lack of understanding of the DOM API and is unnecessary abstraction for most modern use-cases.
 
6:27 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum dude... SO chat runs on jQ.. c`mon
 
Feb 19 '13 at 16:12, by John Resig
bad uses of JavaScript existed long before jQuery ever came out - jQuery being popular doesn't stop bad devs from existing, the only thing that stops bad devs is good education, which is why I've written two books and am working at Khan Academy
^ favorite room quote ever
 
The only way we can stop bad devs from existing is to fire them whenever we see them, and probably get rid of PHP.
 
I wish edx did a cource on js
the one python is excellent
bbrs
 
@ssube yaya
 
Don't fire me, I'll take the horrible cubicle
 
user4330208
6:29 PM
get rid of php...
 
@ssube I read that as "put them on fire" rather than "fire them"
 
@carb0nshel1 Lol, you're defending w3schools but saying "get rid of php"?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum "bad devs" are ones that waste their own time, and should be fired from their job. Terrible devs waste my time too, and should be set on fire.
 
user4330208
@Retsam that was more like *GASP get rid of PHP!?
 
6:30 PM
Which type are you? :P
 
Oh, I didn't see ssubes comment that you were referring to.
 
user4330208
node.js is 4 newbs
 
@carb0nshel1 it wouldn't be a big deal anymore, we have python and node filling in the "easy programming for derps" niche.
 
I'd argue PHP doesn't create bad devs any more than jQuery does.
 
carb0n pls
 
6:32 PM
I don't like it, and don't want to use it, myself, but it's not really relevant to a discussion on good and bad developers, imo.
 
@Retsam Neither of them creates bad devs, they simply attract them, and fail to provide any education.
If you use jQ forever, you'll never learn how the DOM actually works, and that's fairly important.
 
@carb0nshel1 stahp
 
HAMMAHTIME!
 
1 message moved to Trash can
 
@Unihedro Over focused, for sure.
 
6:36 PM
@ssube Sure; but moving beyond libraries to learn how things work is a quality of a good developer that a bad developer generally lacks. Taking away a library won't imbue a bad developer with that quality; they'll just get stuck in other ruts.
 
user4330208
So there are professional devs out there that don't understand vanilla languages?
 
@carb0nshel1 yes
 
or chocolate flavoured, don't forget chocolate
 
user4330208
maybe i should start look for job then.
 
user4330208
@Unihedro don't censor the web.
 
6:40 PM
@carb0nshel1 don't flood the web.
 
user4330208
someone should recreate halo in js.
 
@carb0nshel1 html5 pls
 
user4330208
Yeah, but not html5 alone lol
 
MDN is so pretty, make me want to use FF
 
user4330208
it make me want to use firefox OS
 
6:47 PM
o.O
 
user4330208
 
Um.
 
what is that, lol
 
^ he's incognito mode
 
ohh
I see
FF and chrome
 
user4330208
6:51 PM
its firefox!
 
not the best fox costume
 
user4330208
When i use Mozilla products, Whenever there's a problem I just remember this image, and all is well.
 
I FF told me which tab was playing the soud
 
user4330208
You typed in "web browser cosplay". Think about that.
 
6:54 PM
Actually, I typed in "Internet Explorer Costume" lol
 
user4330208
I went to comicon as a pixel once
 
@NickDugger Hey, that's the 16th st. station!
 
CA?
 
Yeah, SF BART
 
Never been on a subway.
I bet they smell like piss and mustard
 
user4330208
6:56 PM
Not always.
 
mustard is not common
 
@NickDugger Your missing out on so much
 
you can tell it's SF cause that guy is standing on the side of [public transit system] looking for VC funding with no discernible market or product
 
VC?
 
venture capital
 
6:56 PM
SF?
 
somewhere funny
 
thanks
 
(or San Francisco)
 
@ssube You're not supposed to be on the yellow tiles
 
@SomeKittens yeah, its quite weird that he would stand there.
 
user4330208
6:59 PM
You don't get on the yellow tiles in New York unless you like being pushed off into oncoming trains.
 
@SomeKittens obviously, he's taking a risk to differentiate himself from the myriad other startups with similar business propositions.
 
he likely to get pushed wearing that
@carb0nshel1 an with that costume he is one step closer
 
user4330208
True, but SF is 90% gay
 
wat
 

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