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12:00 AM
@Gowiser meta is for discussion about the site, not technical Q&A content. There have been proposals to create a sort of historical SO to put those questions in. The same "parallel" site idea has been proposed for beginner questions. However what's prevailed is that there should be 1 SO site with all content fitting in. The historical locks are a matter of policy.
 
@bad_coder Thanx
 
@Gowiser another alternative would have been deleting, but the posts were considered too valuable. It would be a loss in knowledge and traffic.
 
@bad_coder I understand. I just think that since you already have all the other communities, it would be sensical to create a community for those kind of questions.
@bad_coder And easier to search for (google, duckduckgo, ...) using site:xxxx
 
@Gowiser the issues run a bit deeper, for example some AI questions that have since become off topic were debated for migration. However, the local SO community (which includes some of the authors) thought it would lead to a loss of value for them personally and the local AI tag in general. With a gain for theother community at zero effort.
 
@bad_coder Ah, the egos.
 
12:05 AM
Some of those threads are relevant to serve as duplicate targets, if they weren't visible you'd have more questions pouring in without any canonical to close them against.
@Gowiser it's not a matter of egos, to keep the site healthy the gold badge holders are essential. They close a significant percentage of the duplicates. If those earned hammers where lost due to loss of points it would also affect the resident experts ability to handle daily operations (eg dup closure).
 
@bad_coder I see.
 
12:27 AM
@Gowiser Yes, it definitely violates policy. An exception is made for that particular question because it's very high quality, and is actively, and carefully, maintained by the community. Here's a request on meta to delete it, which is currently. There are other posts on meta discussing that question as well, all reaching essentially the same conclusion.
 
@cigien Interesting post.
@cigien Will search meta in the future, sorry for asking here.
 
@Gowiser Not at all. I didn't mean to imply that you did anything wrong by asking here. You're more than welcome to do that. Searching on meta doesn't hurt, obviously, but it's certainly not a pre-req to asking questions here :)
 
12:44 AM
@cigien I just felt stupid asking. After seeing you post links like snaps fingers
@cigien I have been using stackoverflow as a non-registered users for many years. Being active, actually helps brushing up on the languages I haven't touched for years. It's nice :D
 
Participating (curating/chat/etc) on SO is substantially different than just using it when stuck on a programming problem, no doubt about that :) As to feeling dumb because someone else instantly knows the answer to some aspect of the site (content/mechanics/etc), well, that happens to me literally everyday. It happens to everyone to some extent, I'm sure. Definitely don't worry about it :)
 
 
1 hour later…
2:15 AM
 
 
1 hour later…
3:16 AM
@Makyen just in case you haven't seen, a bug was reported this week that is hard to reproduce without userscript but kicks in easily with userscripts Performance delay in editor when moving to a blank line. I likely wouldn't have noticed if I weren't reviewing/editing a lot.
 
3:29 AM
@bad_coder Thanks for the heads-up. I'd actually seen that post, but not your answer. I had tried, but been unable to reproduce the issue. However, if it's something that only happens 10% of the time, it's quite possible that I just didn't test enough.
 
4:28 AM
@Makyen if you want try it with the userscripts turned on, it will be easy to see. That's when it's easily reproducible.
 
@bad_coder I tried it with my normal 40+ userscripts operational on question/edit pages and did not experience any notable issue.
 
@Makyen lol +40 userscripts :D
@Makyen Btw I installed UnclosedRequestReview last week and I meant to tell you I think it's great. Did take me several days to wrap my head around all visual changes. (Only my 3rd userscript, my computer only runs Makyen&Co userscripts :D )
 
@bad_coder Well, only 40+ operational on such pages, but I have substantially over 100 installed, which are operational on other pages.
@bad_coder Thanks! I'm glad you like it. I hope it's helpful. I appreciate the vote of confidence. :)
 
When do you turn on the Bitcoin miner in all those scripts?
 
:) I try to avoid those. They would be inconvenient with stealing all the available CPU cycles. :)
 
5:01 AM
@rene speaking of which, a cousin of my owns a solar power company. Getting the power wouldn't be a problem, but we'd need someone to handle the ASICS.
 
5:18 AM
:D
 
6:25 AM
@tripleee OP edited a Python gold badge closed question which was closed 7 minutes ago by adding the following new error message: TypeError: 'DataFrame' object is not callable
 
 
3 hours later…
10:39 AM
> ls is one of the most sought after commands in Linux OS
 
11:11 AM
That last SD report (I was the "manual reporter") was one I came across in the "Late answers" review. I noticed it was also reviewed in "First answers" with the "Reviewed" action ... which means (IIUC) that one of the "Other actions" was taken. I presume that other action was a spam flag. If so, how did it still remain in Late Answers? Shouldn't it have gone to the Low Quality queue once a red flag was raised?
... or is that only for NAA/VLQ flags?
 
@Dharman by all means
 
@Dharman Yes.
 
You could edit it out. I wouldn't flag it as R/A.
 
I flagged it as rude, but now you have removed it
 
Rollback ... and I'll add another red flag.
 
11:40 AM
@Dharman yes, I have just edited it, since it is salvageable
 
But it's offensive behaviour, and that should be made known to "The System".
Is not?
 
I'd say it deserves mods attention
 
^ +1
 
A R/A flag should be handled as helpful in this case
 
@AdrianMole not sure; I am leaving it to you - if you want to rollback, I can flag, too
 
11:42 AM
R/A is for unsalvageable posts. If it's salvageable and contains a personal attack, use a custom flag.
 
Hmm. Let Dharman take the rap for the rollback ... then I'll flag it! ;-P
... or maybe a custom mod flag on the edited version, linking the edit history?
 
we could also raise a custom flag, and leave it to the mods
@AdrianMole :)
 
Great ninjas think bikes.
 
@JeanneDark good point; I have edited back, and flagged as R/A cc @dharman @AdrianMole. will post a request here, too
^^ I initially edited it, but rolled back after seeing Cody's comment here: chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/51143339#51143339 , which I think makes sense.
 
11:53 AM
I raised a custom flag, including a link to this chat.
@Dharman For your information and/or entertainment (cc @desertnaut, @JeanneDark): The opening paragraph is clearly offensive in intent. While this could be edited-out (and was, then rolled-back), the poster's behaviour is, I think, worthy of some moderator attention and/or action. There was some discussion in SOCVR about what flag (if any) should be raised: R/A, Custom or none. So I chose the middle path. (The SOCVR is a link.)
 
I think that's fine.
 
goo atternoo
 
 
1 hour later…
1:10 PM
@Dharman @AdrianMole @JeanneDark my R/A flag was "declined - I have to decline, some editing solves the issue" :(
 
Zoe
Mine got declined too
 
same here, btw. Although I do agree that editing somewhat solves the issue, it is R/A indeed. At max, should've been disputed
 
@desertnaut Thanks for the update. I expected an R/A flag to get declined, because the post is salvageable and people on SO are reluctant to delete (potentially) useful content. Only use R/A if it#s not an attempt at answering and unsalvageable. If an otherwise suitable post contains a personal attack against other users, you can custom flag it.
 
@JeanneDark the decision by Jean-François is odd if you ask me. The flags are certainly not invalid . There's also a similar situation from 2018 where Brad Larson also disputed the flag, and this from 2017
 
@desertnaut @NathanOliver please bin
 
1:17 PM
 
@OlegValter I am fine with his decision in principle, but I don't think all these "thanks" and "wasn't much of a problem for me" here were really necessary (or justified)
 
@desertnaut I am going to make a meta post about it. There should be a clear policy regarding disputing/declining flags of certain kind, and I sincerely feel that marking 3 R/A flags declined in this situation was a wrong decision to make.
 
@OlegValter I guess every mod handles it differently. How do you know who handled your flags? I guess it could well have been disputed but I don't know that much about the mod flag handling interface.
 
@JeanneDark because the message is the same for all 3 flags and there is a comment beneath the post :)
I do understand that different people handle things differently but do not like when valid reports (at least from my standpoint) may result in different outcomes depending on who's handling them. I have to be able to trust that when I am flagging something, they will get consistent handling. I think it is called idempotence
 
@gnat your last two del-pls requests seem plenty clear to me (not to mention 'unclear' is a close reason, not a delete reason); so clear they have been answered and accepted. It seems like they're just requests you've posted because the OP didn't offer much effort
 
1:28 PM
@desertnaut It seems that Cody's chat message I posted was perhaps misleading you. It was meant to explain why personal attacks should be custom-flagged. R/A flags are for really obvious garbage with no part being a useful contribution. Cody's chat message was about a case where one of our regulars was actually being insulted in a question. Another user said it should just be edited out, but Cody said a mod flag was in order. Sorry for that.
 
@miken32 No, a point of a historical lock is for things that are "soft" off-topic (e.g. things about programming but still off-topic per the help center), but not completely off-topic (not about programming at all), and that have historical value (based somewhat on subjective matters, but also largely on the views). That one doesn't meet either criteria.
 
Take a look at this bountied question (stackoverflow.com/q/69229542/1426539) and its answer. Do the learned users of this room believe it's worth a mod flag? (Both bounty and answer are extremely recent, fyi).
 
@yivi It can be closed and deleted later, when the bounty won't be refunded
 
@JeanneDark no worries, all is good
 
@JeanneDark I don't mind the bounty being refunded. Just mind the additional noise. But I see your point.
 
1:34 PM
@yivi no, I don't see anything wrong with the Q or A other than a lack of research effort before asking
OP paid for that plenty by wasting 200 rep already
 
Again, I don't particularly care if they "paid" or not. I think the question is off-topic, and should be closed, and the bounty will prevent and will attract crappy answers. But I appreciate your point of view, @TylerH. Thanks!
 
@TylerH I'm with you on this, taking a liberal view of economy someone might be motivated to write a magna opus answer and turn an unsalvageable question into a canonical insight thread.
 
@yivi Jenkins and AWS are both tools used by programmers. What do you think is off-topic about the question?
 
It's not about the subject matter, @TylerH. It's about not having enough detail to understand what's the issue. I don't think the question had enough details/clarity to make it answerable.
But I'm fine with letting it be.
 
@yivi Ah, I see. In that case I think a downvote on the Q does enough to make sure it will be taken care of for now.
 
1:46 PM
It's a crappy, useless question, but no sleep will be lost over it.
 
We can bookmark it to make sure it gets closed later once the bounty expires, if OP never updates it
(which seems likely)
 
@TylerH I used close reason that is displayed on the questions (if I voted on "pandas" question I'd probably pick needs focus). Though "dictionary" question (that has my vote) has comments pointing to what specifically isn't clear (OP ignored these comments)
 
A few regulars already said "let it be", and I'm fine with that. I don't think I'll be revisiting it in the future. I was about to raise a custom flag, but I had a decline relatively recently on a different matter, and still stung by that one wanted a second opinion before I raised another one. Thanks everyone!
 
@gnat that a question is closed doesn't necessitate that it be deleted, though
 
Why should we keep closed questions again?
 
1:51 PM
@Braiam That's the wrong question to be asking
 
The only ones I care to keep are the ones that are no longer on topic, or were from "back in the day" that have good content, but can't be migrated to the appropriate SE site.
 
The question to be asking is "does posting a delete-please request in SOCVR's chatroom comply with the restrictions that chatroom imposes on such requests"
you can close vote, delete vote, etc. any question you want on the site by yourself, but we have a higher standard for what you can request in here
 
@TylerH The fact that isn't a suitable question for the site is wrong.
We don't need to keep any drivel that askers managed to input on the text box.
 
Sorry, that doesn't make sense as a response to the line you replied to
@Braiam Please keep in mind that we also don't allow referring to posts in a derogatory manner.
 
Well, I asked why should we "keep closed questions", you answered with "what's wrong with closed questions", I said that closed questions are "not suitable for the site" (which is what closed means.
 
1:58 PM
@Braiam That's not what I answered; you should read my response again, since you seem to have drastically misunderstood it
 
No, I asked a very specific question: why should we keep a closed question?
That question applies to any closed question.
 
@desertnaut However, on the bright side, my mod flag was marked helpful. ;-P cc @Zoe @Oleg @Dharman
 
@Braiam It may have been wrongfully closed
 
@Braiam Yes, and that question is a non sequitur, which is what I pointed out
Or rather, not necessarily a non sequitur, but just the wrong question to ask
 
@AdrianMole argh :) I am preparing a meta post for clarification. Either FAQs need to be updated to clear out ambiguity at which point R/A is invalid, or there needs to be a clear "yes, those will be declined". I find the "If an otherwise valid post contains vulgar words as an expression of frustration, edit the bad part out instead of flagging the entire post as rude or abusive. If this results in an edit war or rollback war, flag for moderator attention." misleading in the light of the decline
 
2:06 PM
@OlegValter I would support such a Meta post. The fact that my custom flag was helpful and that flag message indicated the option of R/A and linked to the discussion in here should (IMHO) have biased the handling mod to be a bit more 'lenient' of the R/A flags.
 
@TylerH Well, if you aren't capable of answering, like Nathan did, then you have no reason to not delete the question.
 
... had that same content been posted as a comment, then a 'red flag' would have been approved, without doubt.
 
@OlegValter You are confused the R/A flag was declined and not disputed or that it was not marked helpful?
 
@AdrianMole currently working through the list of complaints about R/A declines to see what's the predominant handing has been over the years. Usually, I let it go, but in this case, I am not inclined
 
Edits or deletion is the two paths to closed questions, if former doesn't happen, the later do.
@JeanneDark Nobody is arguing that either :)
Otherwise they would have moved to reopen the question.
 
2:10 PM
@AdrianMole That content alone. But it was posted as an answer and also contained an actual answer to the question. Under these circumstances, an R/A flag was not the right tool.
 
@OlegValter Hmm. Following the letter of the law, then JFF was correct to decline the R/A flags; however, following the spirit of the law I think "helpful" (or "disputed") would have been better. But moderators are busy peepels...
 
@JeanneDark well, yes, I realize that having them considered helpful would probably mean too much of a paradigm shift, so this is not what I am after. But at the very least they should've been disputed, though. Jean-François decided to penalize flaggers for what is, in my opinion, is a very narrow and unwarranted interpretation of the rules. I would like to have a consistent policy instead of "just let it slide, what is one declined flag for you"
 
@AdrianMole The problem with marking an R/A flag helpful is that it comes with punishment
 
@JeanneDark We've had similar discussions about non-obvious spam: A custom flag is better, so you explain why it's spam. But, given the context, those R/A should have been understood for what they were. (The handling mod would have seen all flags in one go, IIUC.)
@JeanneDark Yeah, but that post deserves punishment.
 
@OlegValter First of all, I agree with you and have always maintained the stance that "declined" means not just disagreement with a flag but that raising the flag was abuse. But mods (especially one of them) told us again and again that declined flags don't mean that, don't matter and only become a problem when you have too many of them. This just to explain why the mod in this case probably declined them.
 
2:14 PM
@JeanneDark I know why they declined them but I disagree this is not a problem.
 
@JeanneDark What's French for "robo-Mod"?
 
@AdrianMole You think they deserved a -100 rep penalty for that?
 
They deserve much more than that!!
 
I think we should be able to call out wrong (IMO) mod decisions
 
... a 50k+ user being offensive is completely unacceptable.
 
2:16 PM
@OlegValter We can, there is a site for that ;)
 
... except on Meta, of course.
 
@NathanOliver exactly what I am busy doing :) Just replying to @JeanneDark
 
Well, once that Meta post hits, there's one more moderator on the "out to get the Mole" list ... xD
 
@OlegValter So I will keep on replying to you to prevent you from writing your MSO post ;) Just kidding. Will be interesting and maybe tell us more about the flag handling system, which seems to be even more complicated than the new review queues.
@AdrianMole The problem with R/A though is not just that it carries a penalty, but that it means the post must be nuked. And that's likely not what they want to do when it contains an actual answer to the question.
 
@JeanneDark happy to indulge in responding :) I am not pissed off or anything, I am just one of the people who values protocol and relies on rules being applied consistently. If I perform an action, I have to be able to determine the result without any external factors and wildcards. If I broke a rule, I broke it, no issue with that, but what I really don't like is when an outcome depends on opinion.
 
2:25 PM
New roadmap. There is a "Research: Weighted Close Votes" item which looks interesting. Also a "Research: Dependencies on Chat". Feedback post
9
 
@JeanneDark Nothing to stop the moderator from extracting the good part and posting that as a community-wiki answer, is not?
... should such offensive behaviour be allowed to get by nem con?
But, of course, none of us mortals knows what 'other action' the moderator may have taken in respect to the poster.
@JeanneDark The comparison with review queues is something I'm glad that you raised. I was already considering my 'answer' to Oleg's post: Mods are busy and have lots of flags to handle. But curators are also heavily burdened with large review queues ... does that make it OK for reviewers to rush through without due attention to each post?
 
@AdrianMole A reviewer is not necessarily a curator ;)
 
Meh. Don't get all semantic-oriented with me.
 
@Braiam Now that's a glaring non sequitur. It's important that you understand that SOCVR is not Stack Overflow. We have more restraints here than you have as an individual user on the main site; if you want more permissive rules, suggest a change on the GitHub repo for meeting topics, as has been suggested to you numerous times in the past. Selectively forgetting rules you don't like grows tiresome, however.
 
2:42 PM
@TylerH Well, the same way you can challenge my ideas, I can challenge yours.
If someone doesn't give an appropriated reason to not delete a post, I shall let them know so.
 
2:55 PM
anyone with a golden C tag to dupe nuke this? stackoverflow.com/questions/69256260/…
 
@Braiam It's not an idea, it's an SOCVR rule, and you seem to forget that Room Owners have the final say.
As an RO, let this be the final comment on the matter. I'll also remove the stars here. Seems like the starboard is getting away from the content the room is about.
 
3:15 PM
@Braiam Ignoring the rule to cease conversation when asked by someone, especially an RO, is not cool. You've been provided an avenue for requesting changes to room rules, and not for the first time.
 
Is this link-only? Without the link, all it does is comment on other answer, IMHO.
 
> I know this is an old issue, but as all the other answers seem to imply rasterising, I wanted to point out that alternatives do exist
 
yup
 
when stripped of the link, definitely looks like NAA - what alternatives? What do they do?
 
neither the text before the link, nor the text that makes up the link, provide an answer
 
3:21 PM
Cool. As it happens, I don't have to flag ... I got it in LA review, so I can "Delete" (much tastier).
 
should this be an answer or is it just some typo?
 
@SurajRao I'd vote typo. "I don't know what exactly I did and I don't know exactly why it worked".
 
Can someone help me understand what the first sentence in this question says? stackoverflow.com/q/50164309/1839439
 
my interpretation is they're asking if there's a maximum table column length
 
@Dharman I agree with Kevin B. That's also my interpretation.
I cannot at all say I cannot be wrong, though.
 
3:37 PM
which, is a silly question, absent a reason to consider it
 
Actually, upon re-reading it, I can think of two other interpretations: "what is the maximum length of this field" and "what should the maximum length be"
 
@Dharman It reads like the text of a system-generated "Suggested edits" audit, to me.
 
@TylerH well, prior to posting these del-pls I checked whether answers in the questions looked particularly useful and whether the questions themselves looked like salvageable (without help from the asker because both of them didn't indicate desire to improve). Neither turned out to be the case
 
@gnat fair enough; in the future I would recommend including an indication that they don't provide any value in the deletion request reason. Thank you for responding, btw
PS @AdrianMole congrats on passing 15K close vote reviews. You're ahead of gunr now :-)
@Dharman OP probably added "An explanation of my question" themselves as a copy of the ## explanation of your question template prompt that shows up for low-rep users when their question didn't meet the text length requirements for including a block of code (also something that low-rep/new users encounter when asking questions). You can ignore that phrase.
@Dharman "in the example" I think can be read as "in the example [below]"
 
4:01 PM
Ok, I see it's already got delete votes. I gave up on it after few minutes.
 
As for what they want to know, it's unclear as others have suggested above. It could be "what is the length" or "what should the length be"
 
No idea what the question is really about
 
Indeed, it'll also roomba in 10 days even without the delete votes
 
In other news, I just got access to the customer system, but because of my Company's ridiculous password requirements I came up with a password I immediately forgot. I forgot to put it in a post-it note.
 
heh
 
4:12 PM
@TylerH I was trying to keep that quiet - don't want to upset one of the (Original?) Powers. xD
 
@Dharman That will roomba actually, in 10 days.
 
@cigien Accepted answer
 
Nice, it wasn't going to when i posted the request
Ohh, I think OP is playing with the accept button
 
Oh, the answer wasn't accepted when I posted the message. Never mind.
@Dharman Yeah, looks like it.
 
Yes, it seems they accepted it a minute or so ago
 
4:34 PM
does multiple times vandalizing your own post automatically flag a mod, or is it needed to set one manually?
 
^thanks
 
@Vickel Directly, no. But rollback wars are autoflagged
 
is 3 rollbacks by different users enough to be considered a rollback-war?
 
@Vickel I'm not sure but I think it has to be rollbacked by the same user at least twice to raise an auto-flag. (The exact details of when a "possible vandalism" flag is raised is kept secret). When in doubt, raise a custom flag saying "This might have been auto flagged because of ... but in case it wasn't ...". Better safe than sorry. The flag is unlikely to be declined, based on my experience. It might get declined, but that's not a big deal.
 
4:45 PM
Fun fact: the system does that if if the OP is the one rolling back
 
What can we do about a question that was closed, the author deletes it and re-post the exact same question?
 
close for the same reason
 
@user692942 if it is repeated more than once, mod flag.
 
Just realised they deleted it before it was closed (had 2 votes), an assumption on my part.
 
5:55 PM
@user692942 That's still a circumvention of the site's quality control mechanisms, and warrants a custom flag. ref
 
@user692942 Nothing, the system recommends to do exactly that.
 
in this case, it wasn't closed, so the system hadn't yet recommended that
 
@KevinB Eh, user692942 says that it was closed.
 
> Just realised they deleted it before it was closed (had 2 votes), an assumption on my part.
 
6:31 PM
sometimes i wish to respond "Have you asked a technician?"
 
6:45 PM
 
7:40 PM
 
@AdrianMole @desertnaut - did your R/A flags change to disputed? Someone voided half of what I was about to post :)
 
@OlegValter Disputed isn't actually presented as an option. Helpful or Declined are. Disputed is kinda a half measure that exists for things like NAA, which can be peer reviewed. We have to use a userscript to force it to that after the fact
But, yes, all of them now show disputed
And, no, I didn't do that
 
@OlegValter indeed it did; didn't know that this was even possible
 
@Machavity yeah, I know there was an option to sort of "clear" flags without penalizing both flaggers and the poster - which was exactly my point during the discussion earlier today. I was about to switch to completing my clarification request when I noticed the previously declined flags were switched to disputed. Thanks for clarifying anyway!
@desertnaut yup, it is briefly mentioned in the MSE FAQ on R/A and spam flagging:
> Red flags can be cleared by moderators, whether active or already dismissed. This will cause the flags to be marked as disputed, even though they may have been marked helpful in the past. Since these flags carry heavy weight on the post and its author, a special mechanism is provided to clear borderline flags without penalizing anyone (declining the flag would penalize the flagger).
 
Congratulations to @AdrianMole for being the 28th person to pass 15,000 close reviews! (and with a whopping 77 Steward badges across all queues, a claim that can only be made by 10 other people)
9
 
@OlegValter I refer to this message on what mods can do re red flags for the "canonical" explanation. It's a bit dense, but it covers the issue well.
 
@cigien thank you :) Methinks this needs to be surfaced
 
@cigien @Makyen if you posted the exact text of your linked message there to a self-answered question on one of the meta sites, I would surely upvote it.
It is an excellent explanation, and I agree with @OlegValter that it would benefit from more visibility.
 
@RyanM same opinion here - this breakdown is superb, @Makyen. Maybe we can have "when to flag R/A" of our own on MSO
 
8:20 PM
@Machavity As far as I'm aware, mods can't directly mark any type of flag, other than spam and R/A, as disputed. We could go to the review queue and complete the review, but that's not something I'd consider as a normal way to handle it.
The option to dispute (called "clear" in the mod popup) exists under some (most??, but not all) applicable conditions in the mod popup for the post (i.e. it's available most of the time when there's some non-disputed red-flags) . I've never investigated exactly which conditions result in it being unavailable as an option in the popup, as I just use a userscript, which makes it easily available and doesn't mess around with not having it available when I want to use that option.
@cigien Thanks.
@RyanM @OlegValter OK. I'll look into either posting it on an existing question or making one (and thanks for the compliments :) ).
 
@Makyen thanks for looking into it! The star count speaks for itself :)
 
8:37 PM
@OlegValter As to your issue earlier regarding spam and R/A flags: those flags basically mean: "This post is so bad that is should be immediately deleted, and can't, or shouldn't, be fixed by editing." If it's more complex than "see post--> delete" then the flag used really should be an "in need of moderator intervention" flag which explains the issue.
In cases where the post can, reasonably, be fixed by editing, then it's best to edit the post and raise an "in need of moderator intervention" flag which explains that there's a lingering issue that the user should be approached about not using such language (or doing whatever it is that's the issue).
Where the dividing line is between using an R/A flag and an "in need of moderator intervention" flag is a judgement call, but, generally, if handling the flag requires the moderator to substantially investigate, then an "in need of moderator intervention" flag is usually the better call.
 
9:13 PM
 
9:28 PM
@RyanM Thanks™ But, as I said earlier ... please don't put the 'jinx' on me!
@OlegValter I didn't give an R/A flag ... I gave a custom mod flag. Seemingly, that was:(a) the right thing to do; (b) JFF (the handling mod) 'obeyed' the official rules (see my earlier posts on this issue ... dodgy, but I wouldn't call him out for what he did).
... long story short: That's what custom flags are for.
Any CSS/HTML gurus around who can educate me on my comment/flag to this answer? The code looks identical (other than a wee bit of formatting), to me.
... I custom flagged as Plagiarism/Copy but it was "declined".
... BTW, I'm not looking for armoury to dispute the mod's decision. I just want to know what I did wrong.
... I can handle the occasional "declined" flag. That's par for the course, IMHO.
 
9:57 PM
it is the same answer... but... is it plagiarism?
i think it's borderline at best. there are differences in the example they provided, so it's not a direct copy paste, and it's a solution that anyone who solves that problem would end up at
but how did they end up at that question with an answer, and not see the other answer
 
@AdrianMole What was the exact text of your flag? I'm curious.
 
@KevinB Meh. I was considering downvote/delete-vote when I saw it (in First Answers review queue) but then I thought, "Why waste those votes, when mods can do it with impunity?"
 
I would have expected a helpful flag if you'd flagged with your comment's text
See, e.g., this answer, which I flagged as "This answer is exactly the same as stackoverflow.com/a/37122357, with only the variable name changed. Please consider deleting it."
 
also, in case it means anything, this is an "unregistered" user
 
@RyanM FYI/E Plagiarized/Copied answer: This is exactly the same code as in the other answer, posted nearly three years ago. (The "other answer" was a link to ... the other answer.)
... which is what I then pasted into my comment.
 
10:04 PM
yeah, I guess the hints/other text are different enough that maybe the shorter explanation is helpful /shrug
 
I honestly feel like their answer is better, minus the "I figured it out.".
clear, straight to the point
no storytelling
 
Sure. I can accept/swallow the declined thing (I'm almost a grown-up). But the code is so similar, it raised my (metaphorical) eyebrows.
 
@KevinB waves editing wand
 
If you're gonna post that improves someone else's, but uses their code, surely accreditation is required?
 
@Makyen yeah, that's the impression I got from the rules - however, my interpretation of the editing part was that R/A is inapplicable only if the said abusive language is an expression of frustration and not necessarily directed at anyone. In this case it was clearly directed at a certain person (the OP) and quite derogatory at that... I understand that it seems that the actual interpretation is closer to "anything that is salvageable should not be flagged as R/A", so probably the MSE FAQ...
...needs to be updated to reduce the ambiguity of the clause (unless we, as SO, is a special case). I agree that a mod flag would've probably been a better judgement call, though. The main issue I had with the situation was the handling of the flags that outright rejected (declined) them, but it seems to be resolved now as they are now (properly, IMO, at least given the present interpretation of the rules) disputed
 
10:09 PM
i imagine that's more a symptom of the flagging system/mod tool workflow flaws than not wanting to apply the penalty to a clear case of rude/abusive behavior
 
@OlegValter I'd suggest being a bit more clear when discussing something like this, so instead of "should not be flagged", I'd use "should not be flagged as R/A".
Although, as I mentioned above, where the dividing line is between R/A and "in need of moderator intervention", is a judgement call.
 
@Makyen eh, yeah, that's what I meant too - can't edit it though, out of the edit period - feel free to update the message to avoid future misquotations :)
 
@OlegValter Done.
 
@Makyen yup, thanks!
 
np
 

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