@NikiC hah .. out of curiosity .. when you say total crap, are you talking about the language itself or the underlying implementation ... well, or both :)
@Jack My opinion there oscillates. Sometimes I think "uh, maybe the language is okay after all", then I hit yet another quirks and it's back to "php is total crap" :)
With enough boilerplate, PHP isn't total crap. Otherwise though, yes, but I'd still disagree; PHP would be looking at total crap in the rear-view mirror.
@Jack i guess my comment is out of context. i did not mean as a replacement for php, just as something that seems to be pervasively influencing the php development community
you can still write and get up to speed quickly using frameworks, but you make architecutral choices so that you can swap out the framework if it starts to become your bottleneck...
@LightningDust but the point is that both are actually separate measures. One can improve the other, but it's a casual loose relationship between them...
@dyelawn That doesn't mean your project requires an IDE. I just tried to highlight one of the mundane tasks of programming that is eliminated by good, proper tooling.
What you'll usually find is that it's not as slow as you think. The reason a lot of sites are slow is because the hosts are overloaded.
But one primary benefit of PHP over a compiled language is ease of maintenance. Because PHP is designed from the ground up for HTTP traffic, there's less to b...
@dyelawn not at all, no. But it's not the significant factor in it
People give IDE's such crap in this room. If you depend on an IDE then you are doing it wrong, but IDE's can be the right tool for certain jobs. One such task is code exploration.
For example: Profile a typical web application. The majority of the time is spent in either network operations (cache and database transfers) or I/O operations (database queries, filesystem queries, etc)
@ircmaxell well that seems to be more of an architectural issue than language-based; so it doesn't really explain the necessity for a switch from [x] to Java
Yes, there are plenty of cases where it will help, but typically you're not going to see the difference unless you're running on blistering scale and page-views
@dyelawn Please realize that the problems that Facebook and Twitter are solving are not your problems. And they're not problems that most developers will ever face. So looking to them as examples of what you should do or how you should do it is irresponsible at best...
Okay, so ehm, where's the "crap" inside the underlying implementation of PHP? Is it stuck somewhere? Unmaintainable? Is C the wrong language? Something else? @NikiC
No, because there are tons of choices that go into choosing a platform, and this discussion thread makes it sound like performance is a significant one. And in most cases it's not (despite what people may say)
I'll give you an example: I was given a project recently for a medium-scale site (think alexa top 40). The requirements were that edits go from the CMS to the edge in less than 1 second ("instantly"). I did the math and showed that going from 1 second cache TTL to 30 second cache TTL saved around $800,000 a year in hosting costs alone... Guess what decision was made?
@ircmaxell well that seems to be more of an architectural issue than language-based; so it doesn't really explain the necessity for a switch from [x] to Java
@ircmaxell I know I for one would be hessitant to switch to a new framework/pattern if I was used to using a different framework/pattern. But thats just because I'm lazy and don't want to.. lol
@igorw I showed it to some Drupal guys that work here, and was walking them through the concept, and blew one of their minds with what could be put there... We actually came to an interesting conclusion based on where certain logic belonged...
@Lusitanian not sure, it doesn't seem urgent enough to warrant special attention from jordi. at least it doesn't seem to affect that many users. patches always help I guess, but not sure I have a good answer for you, I'm afraid.
@igorw @Lusitanian don't know if this matters, but the one time i had a composer issue i went to irc, jordi responded immediately and patched like 20 min later.
@NikiC Not when it comes to buffers. As in C you either have to dynamically allocate (heap - slow), or allocate large blocks. Where in a JIT environment can stack allocate the exact ammount
@ircmaxell When defining a problem, you don't define the method of solving it. It's like saying 'Plane vs boat, which is faster to New York... oh but you cant fly.'
@ircmaxell I'd even venture as far as saying that common std::string implementations will do a stack allocation for short strings. But I'm not sure on that
i'm guessing when you do, an error notification will pop up somewhere, in the form of a number and a little red x often used in UIs to indicate that there's been an oopsies
Typically optimized C is the fastest possible implementation other than very refined asm (which most of us, including me, do not have the skill to implement).
If you need raw performance, then C or C++ are your goto languages. Don't believe in the "dynamic languages can be just as fast with a good JIT" propaganda
i'm sorry, i don't think i'll be able to help you solve your problem. i recommend learning how to track the process from endpoint to endpoint. it will make your life a lot easier.
If you ever did any actual benchmarking with Haskell code (especially idiomatic Haskell code), you will quickly see that it is not as fast as commonly portrayed
@ircmaxell I'm referring to Haskell. I have no idea what Erlang is