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09:00
@Gordon can you refer above for my question?
@crypticツ Falling Down is really great. Rent it.
@Gordon Ok will "rent" it right now
Rent?
was dat?
@PeeHaa埽 VoD is pretty much renting
@Gordon news groups is also pretty much VoD ;-)
09:03
@PeeHaa埽 I remember Kyra uses Netflix so she can rent it
Ahh right. murica
Temporary online?
@uday consider inviting @TemporaryNickName to a separate chat room (if s/he agrees) to debug your netbeans issues. thanks.
@Gordon If Netflix you mean Piratebay then yes =o)
09:06
how to do that? gordon?
Random Fun Fact: I can geolocate people by the questions they ask
@Gordon You sure it's the question and not the ip from which they do it? ;-)
@PeeHaa埽 I only use the IP for confirmation :)
alrite, you can do that! But this is new to me..All newbies need not be from same location!
@udaysagar left click the avatar of a user and pick "invite this user" from the Actions list. Note that a user does not need to join in a chat room just because you invited him. Make sure they are okay with that before inviting.
@PeeHaa埽 :D
I've already done that! I am not seeing "invite this user" in the list..
Do I need to grab some more points for that?
@udaysagar not sure. it should work like explained here: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/99393/…
@Gordon You can see IPs?
@crypticツ yes. and dead people.
09:16
lol
@Gordon is that how you confirm dupe accounts?
@crypticツ it's one easy give away but we also have crystal balls to assist with that
@Gordon ok so now on I don't have to research if an account is a dupe and present you my finding I can just link to both accounts and tell you to do it? =oP
@crypticツ any findings you include make it easier for me
But I think Temporary is temporarily out of Stack Overflow! Online? @TemporaryNickName
09:20
@udaysagar it might also be that s/he not able or willing to help you atm, which you should respect then.
@all speaking of respect. yesterday we found a user who commented on a lot of our female user's answers asking them for their email addresses (for shady reasons). If you find users doing that, please report them to us.
Yeah. That's also often happens to me. Really annoying :D
@PeeHaa埽 I can imagine. You're one hell of a girl.
you asked for it :)
I know I know :)
09:25
Dont take silly, how to inform you if you were offline?
@udaysagar you cant
do we have any private message kind of thing here?
@udaysagar see the link on top of the meta post I just gave you, please. thanks.
Totally unrelated: I once had a pretty solid language detection scheme in one of my web projects, but I cannot find it anymore :( What are the steps one can take to give an estimate of the user's default language to pick? I know one of the steps was the accept language header
@Gordon was the user 'Stack'?
09:28
@crypticツ No. Why? Did you have similar problems with a user "Stack"?
@Gordon yeah long ago when I first started in chat, but two mods spoke to him, he invited me a few times to chat afterwards still but I just ignored him and he disappeared
@crypticツ best thing you can do in addition to reporting them
he was very persistent, ThiefMaster invited me to room to talk about it and the stalker guy showed up in the same room, was following me room to room.
@crypticツ mhmm. I looked up the user and I can see a pattern there.
hello :)
Hi guys è
@PeeHaa埽 Do you ever sleep ?
@PrettyGoodPancake I woke up 1 hour ago :)
:D
I have a question for all of you : What's your favorite framework and why ?
Flask. Because it doesn't use PHP. :D
09:52
@PrettyGoodPancake No framework at all!
You will not find a lot of love for frameworks in general in here @PrettyGoodPancake
@ThiefMaster Shut up!
:)
Is flask any good btw?
yes, especially for small applications it's great - simple routing etc. with no bloat
@PeeHaa埽 why ?
@PrettyGoodPancake Because most frameworks advocate terrible practices and/or just suck in general
@PeeHaa埽 Oh, okay...
@PeeHaa埽 You don't use CMS either I suppose then ?
10:00
hi gud afternoon..
@PrettyGoodPancake I use my own CMS. At work we use our own CMS and sometimes I have to put up with drupal
any one is there
@PrettyGoodPancake if you want to be taken seriously, when you ask such questions, you would go to reddit's /r/PHP.
@tereško Well, I know /r/php, but I'm kind of new here and wanted your opinion :)
@Gordon I just had this really crazy idea. I'll just leave it here: new {'Foo with Bar, Baz'}(...) + spl_autoload_register + eval + class_alias = ???
Problem 1: I just noticed that the new {...}(...) syntax does not actually exist (yet ^^). Problem 2: Get's ugly with namespaces
@crypticツ I suspended the user from chat for 7 days.
@NikiC Oo
@Gordon Stack?
@crypticツ yes, turned out you were not the only one he stalked and he kept that behavior despite getting warned to stop it.
@Gordon even recently?
@crypticツ yes
I'd like all of you take this test and post the answer to the second question at the end of it here: youtube.com/watch?v=vJG698U2Mvo#!
10:25
Not hard to do when you know what is being tested ;)
@PeeHaa埽 true
@NikiC are you sure that message was for me?
@Gordon yes
Runtime usable traits ^^
@NikiC I have no clue what that code is supposed to do
aaah, ok. hmm. if you already have to invent new syntax for that I think I'd prefer something less intrusive. Maybe just something like a magic method that works on all objects
10:36
@Gordon Yeah I wrote that when I thought it wasn't new syntax ^^
i wouldnt mind a simple function either. like adopt($obj, $trait)
@Gordon $obj as in $class?
Anyway, just a prototyping idea. A bit nicer is patching PHP to convert new Foo with Bar, Baz to the above new call and then one can do the rest in userland, but already with the nice syntax
@NikiC tbh, I dont want to mix into classes. I just want to mix into objects because they are the things I'll be working with.
@Gordon I thought mixing it into classes is how it works in scala?
I don't see how mixing it into individual objects makes sense
I see Traits as some sort of Role my objects play at runtime
I wouldnt mind if PHP had a Role construct for that purpose
10:39
new Coffee with Sugar, Milk :)
new Account actAs SourceAccount
what would that do?
merge the functionality of both into Account
my whole desire for runtime traits is rooted in DCI
So, isn't that about what the scala-with does?
im not that familiar with scala traits
10:41
merge / decorate the traits into the class
@Gordon hah, you are the one who told me about this!
or wasn't it you?
it was me
but you see, that's a common trick I use when I want something. I empower people I trust to do it better than me with the basic information to get going ;)
so I research the basics, tell them to you and then you start researching and find out how to do it properly
In DCI the class is completely unimportant. Everything revolves around objects. That's why I dont care much about the functionality getting merged into the class.
and tbh, I dont see much use for having a class new Coffee with Sugar and one new Coffee with Milk and one new Coffee with Milk, Sugar because they are basically just prototypes and when I want that I can just as well put that in a Factory. What I am really interested is the objects resulting from these because they will do my work.
hi
can i use php and mysql logo on my blog?
oh
thanks
my blog post is about: Import CSV File Into MySql Using PHP: Free Source Code
and i have advertisement from adsense
is it okay if i put both the logos?
10:55
2 mins ago, by Gordon
@NokImchen https://www.mysql.com/about/legal/trademark.html
2 mins ago, by Jocelyn
@NokImchen http://php.net/download-logos.php
The MySQL Conditional Use Logo must be a "clickable" link that leads directly to mysql.com;
:(
it will make my website have less value :(
out bound link :(
Powercoding music, please
@NokImchen out of curiosity, what are you suggesting to use to import CSV into MySql using PHP?
11:08
I want to became php core developer, how i can do it ?
@kirugan if you ask such a questions - you won't
@zerkms haha) why ? i already knew php and c
@kirugan What would you like to do?
@kirugan have you tried to make your own research of php internals and php internals mail list?
@zerkms i think asking such thing on SO chat will be much faster than on mailing list
11:12
@kirugan it's not about asking it there - have you made a research of how development goes?
@NikiC currently i want to imporve curl php extension
@kirugan you could start by browsing some of the questions tagged
Thanks @Gordon
@Gordon thanks, good answer ;)
11:14
@Gordon when did you become a mod? On the last elections?
@Gordon y u link git not lxr?!
@zerkms if you ask such a questions - you'll never find out. have you tried to make your own research of users and moderators on Stack Overflow?
@kirugan The one single most important site you'll need for developing PHP is this: lxr.php.net
That's the PHP internals documentation :P
@NikiC add lxr.php.net to it. thanks.
@NikiC aga thanks
11:16
@Gordon if only I did care much - I would google. Otherwise you might not bother spending your time to find a page and type an answer
11:27
@NokImchen It's already of less value, don't kid yourself.
$('#mysql').click(function(e){e.preventDefault();});
Debian devs
Saturday is quite quiet, eh?
@webarto actually it was a vivid discussion until you came in ;)
Thanks :P
11:50
very cool (pun intended)
@NikiC thanks
hello @Gordon @webarto @NikiC
12:46
Let's celebrate the goodbye of
One is left but it's an alias to a different site now, so there is nothing I can do about this.
@HamZaDzCyberDeV jo
13:04
ole
morning from La Paz
13:16
@Gordon Seen the pycon one?
13:32
awesome
@BenjaminGruenbaum no. will watch after this:
13:57
@NikiC better serviced with true decorators rather than mixins
14:10
@ircmaxell decorators suck because you lose type. plus I can put sugar and milk into tea as well
ummm
with polymorphism, you want to lose the type. Type is not something you should be depending on anyway
d2.vu .. omfg, it's back
@Gordon precisely why sugar and milk should decorate the beverage...
@Gordon why would you put sugar in tea ?
or, more appropriately, have a bridge-decorator, which allows you to mix beverages. So Sugar and BeverageDecorator...
14:21
@tereško It's backish
No tracker and a malware spreading new admin
well ... let's see how it goes
But we really need demonoid back. It was basically the largest open library for audiobooks.
@ircmaxell what's the difference?
http://stackoverflow.com/q/16460077/1723893
14:34
@NikiC Think about that example. What would the interface look like on Coffee
interface Beverage {
    public function getCost();
    public function getTemperature();
    public function getName();
    public function getSize();
    public function getNutritionalInformation();
}
@ircmaxell doesnt work. drinkCoffee(Coffee $coffee) and you put in Milk(Sugar(Coffee))
@tereško because it tastes good
@Gordon because you would never write that method. You would write drink(Beverage $beverage)
@ircmaxell well, bad example then. Let's take CVBacklog
$backlog = new Cached(
    new SortByClosedDate(
        new Backlog(
            new Crawler(new Webpage),
            new Blacklisted(
                new Client(new Questions),
                include $appRoot('/app/config/blacklist.php')
            )
        ),
        $appRoot('/app/cache')
    )
);
$backlog->defineCachingForMethod('findAll', 3600);
$controller = new BacklogController($backlog, new Url('http://cvbacklog.herokuapp.com'));
Typehint on BacklogController::__construct? Forget it
@Gordon I bet if we sat, we could figure out a way to do that. Especially by generating the Cached class dynamically to satisfy the interface
@ircmaxell Yes...?
14:39
And there are plenty of uses for mixins instead of decorators. My point was the Coffee example was a textbook case for decorators... Quite literally
I was thinking of mixins as a way of implementing decorators ^^
@NikiC Therefore, how would a mixin work? How can you define two mixins onto one class that both override the getNutritionalInformation()
a way which allows you to satisfy interfaces and does the chaining automatically
@NikiC No, a mixin is a trait with state that's bound at runtime
it actually modifies the object
Uh, I don't know what a mixin is
I just mean that Foo with Bar thing
@ircmaxell Chaining
14:41
In object-oriented programming languages, a mixin is a class which contains a combination of methods from other classes. How such combination is done depends on language, but it is not by inheritance. If a combination contains all methods of combined classes it is equivalent to multiple inheritance. Mixins encourage code reuse and avoid well-known pathologies associated with multiple inheritance. A mixin can also be viewed as an interface with implemented methods. When a class includes a mixin, the class implements the interface and includes, rather than inherits, all the mixin's attrib...
that first block summarizes it pretty good
@NikiC the only difference between a mixin and a trait is that mixins contain state. Something which makes php's "traits" actually mixins
But typically, mixins are runtime resolvable (meaning at instantiation time or later, you can add a mixin)
well yeah, so far so good. and now, what is the difference with a decorator?
decorator is a complete separate object
that "wraps" (or decorates) the original object
so you have 2 physical instantiated objects, which are separate in every way, except the decorator contains a reference to the wrapped object, and can proxy calls to it as it needs
so basically the main difference is that a decorator can act and stays independent of an already existing object, whereas a mixin is specified directly at instantiation?
And can not be added or removed later
class Coffee implements Beverage {
    public function getCost() { return 2.0; }
}

class CreamDecorator implements Beverage {
    public function __construct(Beverage $parent) { $this->parent = $parent; }
    public function getCost() { return $this->parent->getCost() + 0.25; }
}
@NikiC Yup. The mixin is actually interleaved with the original object (which therefore changes)
class Coffee implements Beverage {
    public function getCost() { return 2.0; }
}

trait Cream {
    public function getCost() { return parent::getCost() + 0.25; }
}
trait Sugar {
    public function getCost() { return parent::getCost() + 0.10; }
}

$bev = new Coffee with Cream, Sugar;
var_dump($bev->getCost()); // 2.0 + 0.25 + 0.10
14:47
@NikiC Ok, now what happens when you need to add sugar
Coffee with Cream and Sugar
class SugarDecorator implements Beverage {
    public function __construct(Beverage $parent) { $this->parent = $parent; }
    public function getCost() { return $this->parent->getCost() + 0.10; }
}
@NikiC that wouldnt work because Traits dont overwrite existing methods in the class they used in
but with mixins/traits, you're SOL
@NikiC fatal error, conflict detected between two traits and class
guys, are you kidding me
I'm not talking shitty php traits here
I'm talking how shitty php traits can be improved
@NikiC What's the resolution order there?
Especially as there is a fatal currently one can (without BC break) add chaining
@ircmaxell Coffe -> Cream -> Sugar. In order of appearance ^^
14:49
@NikiC Ok, so now what happens if you want to remove the cream?
@ircmaxell You can't
or after instantiation you want to add something?
Or you want to add something only for a certain amount of time...
yes, sure, you can't do that
or for a certain method call
What I'd MUCH rather see, is a way to remove the bootstraping nightmare for decorators, rather than putting much work into mixins
@NikiC what would be the result of get_type(new Coffee with Cream, Sugar);?
14:50
I don't think there exists a way to remove that bootstrapping nightmare
make decorators easier, they are ultimately far more flexible and easier to use
Uby
Uby
hello
@Gordon 'Coffee with Cream, Sugar' ^^ Or whatever other name one might want to generate
@NikiC Sure there is. As long as you restrict yourself to typing interfaces, it's doable today in PECL
Go ahead
How would you do it?
Especially the interfaces part interests me
14:52
Add a new SplDecorator class
s/Spl//
Which decorators extend. And it automatically proxies back
So:
class SugarDecorator extends SplDecorator implements Beverage {
    public function getCost() {
        return $this->parent->getCost() + .10;
    }
}
a) how can I extend? (i.e. extend something else)
@NikiC what do you mean?
the other methods would automatically be implemented and proxied by the core class dynamically, and the constructor would adjust its type-hint based on the interfaces defined on the end class...
b) how is the "implements Beverage" checked? If I want to change only one method of the interface, but not redefine all Beverage methods
@ircmaxell PHP has no MI
14:55
$beverage = new SplDecorator(
    new Beverage,
    [
        'getCost' => function() {
            return 'foo';
        }
    ]
);
@NikiC the core decorator class does that for you (through a little magic in the engine to bypass the interface check at compile time for that particular base class)
Is it perfect? No. But it indicates that there is a solution that can be thought about
@Gordon That's definitely one way
@Gordon Actually... That's interesting...
really interesting
@ircmaxell In any case, the implements part is weird. Especially the fact that you will even have to specify interfaces the decorator does not actually implement in the body at all. Also restricts usage on which objects the decorator can be applied
@ircmaxell we could have both actually. If you use SplDecorator standalone you can do the overloading at runtime via ctor injection. But if you extend it, the second argument to the ctor doesnt work anymore because it will use the implements instead.
@NikiC You want it to restrict usage. That's the entire point of an interface
@Gordon hrm... Will need to think on that
my gut says that's doing too much
@ircmaxell but you will have to restrict it way more than necessary
14:58
and that sticking to one or the other (within a single class at least) would be appropriate
@NikiC how do you figure?
You will have to restrict it on interfaces that the decorator does not actually need
@ircmaxell the main issue would still be that $beverage instanceof Beverage would still be false unless we do something magic there
@NikiC No, you design the decorator to work with one (or more) interfaces. More can be added by the class, but the decorator only decorates a defined interface
@Gordon there would be magic there, you'd need it for other reasons as well...
@ircmaxell Ah, and how will that work then?
Will you runtime clone the class and create a variant with additional interfaces from the decorated object?
@NikiC potentially, not definitely, but potentially
I'd love to sit here and talk about these semantics all day, but it's going to rain in a few hours, and I need to run to the store first. I'll be back in like 3 or so hours, if you want to continue this conversation
15:00
@ircmaxell That seems real ugly. I do new Cream(...) but I get a different class depending on what the argument is...
@NikiC you get the same class
but a different set of implemented interfaces
whatever, I have to go. tty later
@ircmaxell Oh, you mean a class can now implement a different set of interfaces depending on context?
@ircmaxell is fleeing ^^
class SplDecorator
{
    private $instance;
    private $overloads;

    public function __construct($instance, array $overloads)
    {
        // assign properties
    }

    public function __call()
    {
        // call overloaded or instance method or throw up
    }

    public function __instanceOf()
    {
        return gettype($this->instance);
    }
}
@Gordon it sounds like you should start buying better teas then
@tereško yes, that must be it. that time honored british tradition of drinking tea with milk and sugar must have it's cause in bad tea :P
15:06
it definitely is the source of earl gray
@tereško I agree to not putting sugar in green tea or infusions but some black teas definitely need some sugar
hmm ..
Staph with the tea already and start talking coffee
@NikiC I can haz __instanceOf as a start?
@PeeHaa埽 lets see: makes teeth yellow, acidic, overdose cause diarrhea and "shakes" .. thanks , i will pass
15:09
I've done worse
;-)
I still smoke which is also worse
o man .... this is ridiculousness ..
@PeeHaa埽 Y U NO STAHP SMOKING?
quick, someone find me a solution for a bug in my girlfriend: she's raging!
2
@Ocramius hold shoes in front of her
15:23
@Gordon Because I like it :)
@Ocramius It's not a bug, it's by design
it must be new shoes though, else she might hit you with them, so exercise caution
@Jocelyn dude, does it happen that often? Or is it a cron?
@PeeHaa埽 that's not true
@Ocramius it is synchronized with values returned by mt_rand(), so you never know when it will happen
15:27
@Gordon Actually it is. It takes some time to start liking it but once you do...
@PeeHaa埽 the time it takes is the time the nicotine needs to take control of your nervous system. once it has that it swindles you into believing you like it. it will also make you lose total control over yourself to the extent that you will avoid places where you cannot smoke.
bleah
@PeeHaa埽 hi whatsup?
@Ocramius chocolate & wine (depending on moment of the day)
keep a stash handy
@Gordon That is the case with most things which you like
That doesn't mean I don't like it
15:30
Actually i need help i want to get url from link using $_GET
but in javascript
@MalikUsman hola
@MalikUsman console.log(location);
@Gordon Wuuut no
@PeeHaa埽 :/ i want to do something like fb.com/pages/apps_html-apps?url=web.com
I want to do something like this
@PeeHaa埽 I used to think I like it, too. but ever since I quit I can assure you I was deceived by the drug and so are you. you are just a junkie getting your fix. no one likes standing outside in the pouring rain just to smoke.
i want to get web.com
using javascript
15:34
@Gordon lulz
@PeeHaa埽 i'm serious :|
Me too with my statement that that goes for most nice things. alcohol,m chocolate etc
And if it is terrible weather I will just stay inside thank you :)
I also used to think coffee goes with a cig. or beer. truth is, I didnt know what coffee or beer tasted like until I quit smoking.
@Gordon That's something I hear a lot
@PeeHaa埽 hey i need help i want to do $_GET['url']; using javascript not php
15:35
@MalikUsman I just gave you directions :|
@PeeHaa埽 you will also be extremely surprised how bad smokers smell. two weeks after I quit my sense of smell came back. One of my buddies went to take a smoke and came back and I was like WTF DUDE YOU SMELL APPALLING!
thanks
@PeeHaa埽 did you at least change to one of these electronic cigarettes?
@Gordon neh
that's no more smoking then, they call it 'vaping' as nicotine is vaporized
15:45
I like to think that me quitting had to do with green tea. I used to brew it with boiling water back then, which is wrong because it will make the tea bitter. But I didn't "like" the cigarettes anymore then. they didnt mix well. So I thought: okay, let's just do a pause from smoking. Well, that was in 2000. I am still pausing.
but you only ever realize how potent a drug nicotine is when you feel "the craving" strike out of nowhere even years after you quit smoking. it's easy to shake off though then.
@kaᵠ at least it doesnt smell bad
@Gordon you can say that again! also doesn't contain dozens of 'flavouring' cianures they put in the cigs
and you can vape without any nicotine, if you still have the hand-to-mouth urge
yup
i'm waiting for the smoke packs that have no brand visible on them, only the warning in B&W
15:57
yeah, it's a shame that it looks so damn attractive
lol :) marketing
james dean without a cigarette? unthinkable
16:18
Hahaha
(Damn, thought it would one-box that)
it's deleted :)
What is? That question?
yup
Nah, it's still there, just closed.
The part that gets me, is he says "allow me to introduce myself", but then doesn't introduce himself.
he introduces he's centos server lol
16:23
lol
@Bracketworks wow, -16
Didn't know it goes that low
I know it would be ultimately pointless, given the fact of anonimity, but it would be nice if after a question hits -5 or something, that all answers become invisible to the OP, using whatever cookie or session mechanisms possible.
Sort of a jab to say "Hey dingus, ask a better question"
what is the whole "meta users with a kanji after their name" thing about?
-148
Q: How to send 100,000 emails weekly?

xRobotHow can one send an email to 100,000 users on a weekly basis in PHP? This includes mail to subscribers using the following providers: AOL G-Mail Hotmail Yahoo It is important that all e-mail actually be delivered, to the extent that it is possible. Obviously, just sending the mail conventiona...

@BenjaminGruenbaum ^
That has positive rep
lol
16:29
user has
just -296 rep now
556
Q: Is 23,148,855,308,184,500 a magic number, or sheer chance?

RoddyNews reports such as this one indicate that the above number may have arisen as a programming bug. A man in the United States popped out to his local petrol station to buy a pack of cigarettes - only to find his card charged $23,148,855,308,184,500. That is $23 quadrillion (£14 ...

16:43
@kaᵠ Wow... shouldn't it be deleted or something with that score that low?
@webarto has some very upvoted answers, question is bad but answers are good, whatcha gonna do?
OT: I bought branded glasses today, but can't find the model online, fake?
prolly ?
@kaᵠ I think they are automatically deleted now if score is -20+ or something like that...
16:59
Doesn't look like fake :\

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