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00:16
@Dharman 3v4l.org/lrTci gives a better idea
00:50
@MarkR Only call information. What are you interested in?
@Derick I want to share some profile info with one of my team so they could shove it in kcachegrind themselves, but needed to know it wouldn't be capturing any of the prod credentials first. Thanks :-)
I didn't know if it was capturing the call arguments and including them in the info
I assume by you saying only call info it's just the timing and not the params?
yes. it only includes file names, function names, line numbers, and metrics
Brilliant, thank you :-)
snooze now
G'nite ol chap
 
5 hours later…
05:59
@Sara @ramsey @PatrickAllaert I don't see 8.0.14RC1 not 8.1.1RC1 ?
 
4 hours later…
09:32
naughty
10:10
\o
Hi, pls I need help with a regular expression
 
1 hour later…
JRL
JRL
11:35
has there ever been an extension methods RFC? i can't seem to find one.
the context is that i was thinking about scalar objects again, and was realizing that the hardest part of such a thing may be the disagreement over method names, which methods get included, how they are implemented, etc. so i was thinking about the idea of doing scalar objects that have no methods on them at all, but allow for extension methods.
then the scalars after scalar objects would actually be the same as the scalars before. the only difference is that developers could attach runtime defined methods directly to the scalars.
Something like this ?

interface ScalarInterface{

public function toScalar() : int|float|string|bool;

}

class MyScalarObject implements ScalarInterface{

public function toScalar() : int|float|string|bool
{
return 'x';
}

}
cmb
cmb
@JRL so something like github.com/nikic/scalar_objects?
JRL
JRL
no it'd be something more like...

extend int with function factorial() { ... }
11:50
@RemiCollet Let me know if you need me to tag something :D
JRL
JRL
@cmb yeah, but i was thinking about it in the context of maybe bringing more general extension methods to PHP
cmb
cmb
@GabrielCaruso either you or @Sara where supposed to tag 8.1.1RC1 yesterday. :)
Never announced anything though. There were also limitations with references.
@cmb we handle the 8.0.X, no? She's taking care of 8.0.14
JRL
JRL
right, but im also thinkign about extension methods more generally, which would allow things like attaching new functions to final classes after instantiation
cmb
cmb
11:55
@GabrielCaruso oops, sorry, I meant 8.0.14RC1
JRL
JRL
extension methods wouldn't allow you to redefine any defined methods, just add new ones
If she doesn't show up until EOD today, I'll do it myself, just need to fix my access to downloads.php.net
I'm comfortable with sysadmin, I can volunteer for that
Question is, to whom may I volunteer
@JRL General extensions, I don't think so. They could be useful for interfaces (similar to what Swift does with protocol extensions docs.swift.org/swift-book/LanguageGuide/Protocols.html#ID521) but I'm not sure there's an efficient way to implement that in PHP.
Does anyone know what permission needs to be given for github.com/php/doc-fr/pull/127#issuecomment-982855375 ?
As I don't really get what is not working for that GitHub Action of doc-fr
12:47
\o,
also @ramsey @PatrickAllaert who will take care of 8.1.1RC1 ?
\o
13:06
o/
13:18
\o
Wes
Wes
o/
IGP
IGP
\o
13:43
o/
13:53
\o
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
What happen?
Oh... nothing.
@DaveRandom Possibly a stupid question... Is there is a way to see how much memory each tab in Chrome is using?
IGP
IGP
14:08
Off by 8
@StatikStasis Doesn't it have a profiler?
@StatikStasis yeh it shows you in chrome task manager
Hmm... let me see.
"more tools" -> "task manager"
shows you memory and cpu and PID per-tab
IGP
IGP
I know Brave opens a new process per tab, so you can see that on windows but to properly know which process corresponds to which tab is a bit trickier.
14:10
I've never seen this before. Told you it was stupid. Thanks! =)
16GB is just not enough memory for me. I need 32GB minimum.
IMO if you are going to upgrade go straight for 64GB
@PeeHaa i am asking about preference to given to which framework ?
@FélixAdriyelGagnon-Grenier for simple website like a author website.. here he is just showing books, and a page for contact..for this CI or Laravel..If i just install laravel it takes space more than 50 MB?
14:25
Wordpress
@PeeHaa i can use,,but i don't know how to customize wordpress code
Do you know how to build an application from scratch in either of those frameworks?
@PeeHaa i can build in ci and in custom php
it sounds like you could also write three html files and be done with it?
like, is there any need for dynamic content?
@HamzaZafeer In that case you should be able to decide what framework would work best for you
14:38
@FélixAdriyelGagnon-Grenier admin side.. where he can see contact quires.. and can upload images
Is anyone aware of a library which finds phone numbers on patterns like:

one five 5 six nine o 3 ?
Even without that terrible format matching phonenumbers is stupid hard :D
yeah I know, there's some stuff in place which is just a huge map of crap
was wondering if there was anything better out there
14:59
Morning everyone 0/,
I tried migrating to [email protected] however seems like some dependencies don't support it yet, any ideas what I can do?
Send PRs or wait a bit
yeah wait for the devs of the dependencies to catch up, send them some money too so they can catch up faster
composer fund
Or perhaps you can composer install with --ignore-platform-reqs
I think it was the flag
*** potential bugs ***
.oO( That may crash and burn )
haha yeah
@Derick to who may I offer my free sysadmin skills to help on servers ?
is there some kind of hell's angels requirement to do that? Like I should give you my house title or anything like it ?
@PeeHaa That's what I have at home... I love it. This is my work PC.
15:13
Haha okay, good advice
@ziGi give those projects money to encourage the maintainers to work on them.
@ln-s I don't know :-/
I'm guessing there is a blood pact and a corn god invocation ritual, at least
I'll take ln -s offer, and raise you a "replace everything with k8s" :P
15:30
If I have servers I can work with what you need, I'm more of a docker guy never worked with kubernetes but I can do it
If you're familiar with docker i'd recommend looking into k8s, it has a bit of a ramp up but is really powerful
only thing I read is that it's a better version of swarm
We don't have either docker or k8s, most of the stuff is on Digital Ocean droplets, with one or two very oldâ„¢ FreeBSD boxen
Oh ok, I have 21 intranet connected droplets
22 actually
I have... unlimmitttedd powaaaa... but that's on my work cluster :|
15:34
Any monitoring on those droplets ?
(derick)
(or mark) speaking about the PHP infra droplets
Someone usually shouts in R11 when they notice the website is down? :P
hahaha
@ln-s I also don't know. The droplets themselves don't cause issues. Somebody had setup up some pagerduty thing but it was so flakey that it's gone again.
COOL
I could setup zabbix monitoring with some triggers when something is down
It's fine really. We're not making money with it... so who cares if it's down once in a while (the main website, hasn't been for a loooong time though)
15:41
While we're on the subject, who do I have to flutter my eyelashes at to make changes to the nginx config on the website (php-web4 box)?
cmb
cmb
write to systems@ :p
@cmb Or skip the middleman and write to /dev/null :(
How many servers are actually in use nowadays?
@salathe What do you need changing?
And I still shiver at the fact that qa.php.net uses email to receive reports which nobody looks at
15:48
@Derick Something to make 404s under /manual/... go through error.php as it should do.
Do you know how to do that with nginx?
cmb
cmb
@Girgias function mail_qa_team($data, $status = false) {return true;}
Haha, that, although the reports are on the website somehow
@Derick the error page works fine for pages not under /manual/ so I'm assuming it's something specific that's been set up in that config.
Riddle me this, Batman. TypeError: Unsupported operand types: string + string when adding three numeric strings together. (Confirmed they are for-reals numeric.) Erm, since when?
15:53
8.0, but if they are numeric they should actually work
Mind sharing?
Might be a bug otherwise
@salathe The config does not allude to that
8.1.
Well the error is since 8.0, so it should work in both of the versions
function makeSums(array $vals): array
{
    $sum = [];
    $count = count($vals);
    for ($i = 2; $i < $count; ++$i) {
        $sum[] = $vals[$i] + $vals[$i - 1] + $vals[$i - 2];
    }
    return $sum;
}


The function.
Except if we introduced a regression somehow in 8.1
15:55
(God I hate this code editor.)
3v4l.org/tPKec - Seems like it's not a simple regression bug, so probably my fault somehow.
root@php-web4:/var/log/nginx# tail -f access.log | grep xxx
45.112.85.242 - - [01/Dec/2021:10:55:10 -0500] "GET /manual/not-a-lang/function.xxx.php HTTP/1.1" 404 162 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:88.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/88.0"
45.112.85.242 - - [01/Dec/2021:10:55:18 -0500] "GET /mnual/not-a-lang/function.xxx.php HTTP/1.1" 302 5 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:88.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/88.0"
45.112.85.242 - - [01/Dec/2021:10:55:18 -0500] "GET /search.php?show=404quickref&lang=en&pattern=mnual/not-a-lang/function.xxx.php HTTP/1.1" 302 5 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x8
If I coerce all the values to integers first, it's fine.
@Crell Seems to be working just fine? 3v4l.org/Ima7K
... Weird... Something odd with my data, maybe?
Are you sure you don't have an empty string somewhere?
cmb
cmb
15:58
@Crell JIT involved?
@salathe I think it might just be something in error.php, like this: github.com/php/web-php/blob/master/error.php#L641-L649
Shouldn't be. It's just an Advent of Code challenge.
As an empty string is not a numeric string, but if you cast it to an int it will become 0
@Derick But that gives a custom 404 response, not the generic nginx page.
Ah! Yep, that's the error. There's a stray empty string entry at the very end of the list.
16:01
@salathe I can't really live debug this on the production server :-þ
good that I'm the expert on PHP numeric strings
:-)
Merci bien!
I need to make a T-Shirt which says that
25 mins ago, by Derick
It's fine really. We're not making money with it... so who cares if it's down once in a while (the main website, hasn't been for a loooong time though)
cmb
cmb
@Girgias that was the implementation we should have – fully BC compatible ;)
16:04
@Girgias That's dangerously close to i.imgur.com/yaBJ9W1.png
3
@MarkR Frankly, the mere fact that this is a statement I can make, shows how bad they were
@salathe :-þ
let me release xdebug first
@Derick What sort of performance reduction can one expect from the xdebug profiler? Looks like it's is still using zend_execute_ex to do it's profiling?
There is quite a bit of overhead, I haven't measured it recently. The profiler needs an overhaul really :-)
@Derick Plz <3
16:09
Yeah, the new observer API would be a huge help.
Not sure how much effort that would be though.
that isn't the only thing I need to fix though
I'm sure not, just the first thing that jumped out at me as a possible performance boost.
16:30
magick ^
  -size 256x250 "gradient:rgb(255,0,0)-rgb(128,255,255)" ^
-set option:modulate:colorspace hcl ^
  -modulate 188,100,100 ^
  -modulate 100,145,100 ^
  linear_gradient_with_modulate.png
is ^ the equivalent of \ on Windows? or some other shell?
^ is an escape character in batch files
escaping the newline in this case
17:23
^ is the escape character in cmd.exe, technically, and it has all sorts of insane and confusing behaviours depending on context
also it does not enable you to resolve \" conflicts (common with folder path arguments)
cmb
cmb
17:43
see ss64.com/nt/syntax-esc.html for the gory details
@DaveRandom use a backslash escape (\\"); isn't that to be expected :p
^ Escape character.
That's it I'm outta here
lol
@cmb yeh but it also isn't that simple :-P
cmb
cmb
of course not! Windows is for advanced users :p
riiiight
correct, users with advanced neurological diseases
docs.microsoft.com/en-gb/archive/blogs/… this is the best article I know of on the topic
18:02
I know the API issues were a bit of a hassle, but the cleanliness of my code thanks to named args is much, much better
Being able to spam DTOs with named args
cmb
cmb
@DaveRandom interesting, thanks! Looks like Nikita got it right. :)
PHP 7.4
cmb
cmb
18:18
@ramsey, @PatrickAllaert, @JoeWatkins, who will take care of 8.1.1RC1?
@cmb We haven't discussed it yet. Any specific reason why you ask?
cmb
cmb
because it was supposed to be tagged yesterday
shit!
That's a good reason!
cmb
cmb
np! 8.0.14RC1 hasn't yet been tagged, either. @Sara, @GabrielCaruso
When I look at the bugs reported for PHP 8.1 and what currently is in PHP-8.1 branch, I wonder how relevant that is to tag a 8.1.1RC1
cmb
cmb
18:35
It's about sec fixes; 7.4.27RC1 has already been tagged, so if a sec fix is released with 7.4.27, 8.1.1 would need that as well.
and it might take quite some time until the most relevant 8.1 bugs will be fixed, anyway
19:15
@cmb I need to sync with @PatrickAllaert and @JoeWatkins on release cadence for 8.1.
So, maybe we should have that conversation today :-)
I can do the 8.1.1RC1 tag tomorrow morning (London time) and announcing it, but it would be on the same day then
I struggle finding the release wiki page documentation that I used to have as an opened tab
wiki's search isn't helpful :-/
it doesn't list what our standard release cycle is, so I was still thinking it was next week
(following the pre-GA cycle)
19:59
> That's because later versions of Laravel dump all
deprecation warnings straight to /dev/null by default.
u wot
20:20
This seems like a doc bug, but I want to verify before I try fixing it. https://www.php.net/manual/en/function.is-a

is_a says "Checks if the object is of this class or has this class as one of its parents". But it also takes a class string instead of an object. In which case... passing the same class/interface name for both the first and second param gives false, not true. Which is... confusing.

is_subclass_of() has the same issue.

https://3v4l.org/I67ld
Is this a bug in is_a, or a bug in the docs?
(Or has it been there so long that the bug is now expected behavior...)
I would certainly expect is_a to include the === case.
@Crell There's a third parameter to is_a to allow strings. php.net/manual/en/function.is-a
facepalm
If you make that true passing the same class to both params returns true
I really hate the PHP4-era OOP tools that are still hanging around.
21:17
Does the magic variable $http_response_header still exist in PHP 8.1?
21:30
Does get_class() return false or not?
21:41
@Dharman if (get_class() === false) { /*returned false*/ } (:
I raised a PR to mix PHP manual
more seriously though, I find the return section of the manual rather clear, am I reading it wrong?
Possibly. The signature says that the only value is string
So you can't ever get false from it unless you trigger UB
And it throws otherwise
21:45
3v4l.org/SRLMG since 8 it's not returning false either for having no args outside a class
@Ekin Yeah, so I think the big question is, do we consider it UB or was this function able to return false prior to PHP 7.2?
If only there was a way to test on multiple versions of PHP
21:48
also suuuuup o/
Sup sire o/
Ok, so in PHP 8, it doesn't return false. Prior to PHP 8, it could return false when called without parameters outside of class scope, and this was the defined behaviour?
earlier today, I ported a rather interesting 5.3 codebase to 8.0. and it went great!
ok, then I will change my PR
21:51
there were two breaking things, mysql_connect and int * string math
noice
I had two-three hours to "make it all work", being on-site at some place where remote login insn't a possibility for now, and considering the late discourse on breaking change, I count myself as rather unimpressed by all the things y'all BC broke with php :D
How easy was migration from mysql_*?
I used a shim script that replaced the mysql_* functions with mysqli, so it was an include in various files
so the codebase is still a mess, but it works
21:55
yes
unmessing it is not something, that a few tens of hours of work would have massively dented
and I am rather content, because now there might be a next time to improve it a bit more
cmb
cmb
22:06
@ramsey we changed it after discussion on RM list to not have releases over the holidays: wiki.php.net/internals/2021-end-of-year-releases. It's important to keep the GA releases in sync because of security fixes.

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