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01:07
TODAY IS THE DAY!!!!!!!111oneoneone
is it? :O wat day
Thursday.
whoo hoo, thursday! \o/
it's also sleepy time
til - there aren't may good songs about thursday. So have this instead:
01:18
I will contribute a YouTube video that randomly ended up on a playlist but is awesome - youtube.com/watch?v=R2t8pHCbVFc
 
2 hours later…
03:02
@Tiffany They made the right call in Georgia. =) Very happy!
03:26
@StatikStasis same :)
 
3 hours later…
06:34
So I have a small issue, so far as I can tell, json_encoder.c is absolutely wrecking json_encode performance in a hot path by reallocating memory thousands of times, doing entire copies for every key, token etc.
06:57
posted on November 25, 2021

So I have spend my whole evening and morning to find a bug in Symfony Messenger AMQP Transport :/
This next bit I'm much more confused about, smart_str_appendl_ex calls smart_str_alloc then memcpy's the entire thing, but smart_str_alloc calls smart_str_erealloc and that calls erealloc2, passing in the length of the original string into the copy size. That hits _erealloc2 which sets use_copy to 1 when calling zend_mm_realloc_heap which is also doing a memcpy?
07:16
I would have perhaps expected to see some geometrically growing memory allocations inside smart_str to avoid mass-reallocation and copying, but if they're there im not seeing them.
actually nm on that second to last, I see that its memcpying just the new str onto the end of the old one
07:35
(Don't mind me, rubber ducking to myself) Just stumbled upon SMART_STR_NEW_LENGTH, so growing the buffer by a by 4k page size each time.
No worries, I sometimes do the same using the bottom input text for rubber ducking
I find any kind of chat rubber ducking a cure for remote working in pandemic days
Well I think I know more about smart_str now, unfortunately my JSON performance is still tanked :(
I'm trying to encode about 5 - 10k of JSON 10,000 times per second >.>
08:26
Could anyone grant me a [email protected] email address? :) I'd like to ask for free credits from AWS on behalf of the "PHP Group".
08:38
@m6w6 @JoeWatkins it will be really nice to have a new Memcached ext version...
don't know what is blocking it
08:58
Good evening coders
09:51
@MarkR I'm generally not a fan of APIs with the name "smart" or "quick" or "clever" in it, but I do think that smart_str does the right things generally. However, I did implement a different (and more tuned one) for Xdebug: github.com/xdebug/xdebug/blob/master/src/lib/str.c
@Derick Inconsistent indentation :P
10:41
Just one line! Also: PRs welcome ;-)
@Girgias What was this link with the docs todo list for 8.1 again?
11:36
@RemiCollet FULLACK
11:59
@RemiCollet php-8.1.0 is indeed created from my, so far, local branch PHP-8.1.0
The wiki was mentioning pushing the tag exclusively, but I can for sure push the branch itself too
branch pushed #done
@Derick That is indeed the one, although didn't have time to flesh out the tracker .-.
@Girgias Should I tweet that "help is required" or something like that?
@Derick Oh for sure, there is also the tracker for 8.0 and 7.x pinned
@PatrickAllaert yes I think PHP-8.1.0 branch should be push
@Girgias
🆘 Help wanted!

📄 The PHP documentation team is seeking help to document the new PHP 8.1 features (more about that later today).

👉 Can you help? There is a tracker at https://github.com/php/doc-en/issues/980
that good?
12:13
@Derick LGTM
Also you're coming tonight Derick to Covent Garden?
I'm feeling a little under the weather (read: hung over), so I am not sure yet.
Ok ok, I'll probably go there, but unlikely to be there before 7ish
At least @PatrickAllaert won't be alone then :-)
Indeed :D
@Derick Ho cool, @Girgias you are in London too?
12:17
@PatrickAllaert Yeah, I study at Imperial College
@Girgias Si on est que 2 on va pouvoir le faire en Français :-D
@PatrickAllaert Ca serait triste quand meme si on est que 2 lol
@Girgias We should be plus que cela
oui oui croissant
baguette au fromage
12:21
FWIW, I can read that silly French language thing... but I doubt many others can in here.
Denk je dat Nederlands beter is?
SCHMETTERLING!!!1
@PatrickAllaert No, not in here.
@Gordon pili-pala
Dus, voor ce soir we have dit Facebook evento: fb.me/e/1DJ5N9dNk
@PatrickAllaert If you want to tell me to fuck off, you can just say so ;-)
12:24
@Derick I dont play Magic the Gathering
@Gordon It's "butterfly" in Welsh.
@Derick Oh, totally not my intention!
I KNOW
Morngins
cmb
cmb
@PatrickAllaert is there some description in the WIKI, or are you referring to github.com/php/php-src/blob/master/docs/release-process.md?
12:39
morning
@cmb I am referring to that, yes, in particular, point 8) => Push the tag e.g. git push origin php-7.4.1.
that's why I pushed the tag only
cmb
cmb
@PatrickAllaert yep, that's a bit unclear; however, see github.com/php/php-src/blob/master/docs/…, item 10. So create the PHP-8.1.1 branch for 8.1.1RC1, and then go from there.
🎊🎊 HAPPY 8.1 RELEASE DAY 🎊🎊
13
Happy release day
@PatrickAllaert would be cool if you stream it
the beer event
12:54
@cmb Yes, we can agree that finding instruction for stable releases in the section about non stable release is quite sub-optimal :)
cmb
cmb
there should probably be a note that the PHP-x.y.0 branch should be created before tagging its last RC :)
13:11
@cmb @PatrickAllaert yes, and usually last-RC = GA (so should have no commit in the release branch after last-RC, exception for security fix, and for Release Managers exceptions)
not a really big issue. That mean that 8.1.1RC1 will only have 1 week dev (when it should have 3 weeks, since 8.1.0RC6)
in short, if you have commit in a release branch after RC, you probably need another RC ;)
13:25
HAPPY $100K Day PHPF!
11
\o/
\o/
@PatrickAllaert please also don't forget to bump version in PHP-8.1 branch, to 8.1.1-dev ;)
14:28
@Sara fyi s/death nail/death knell/ - en.wiktionary.org/wiki/knell
14:39
@Derick Can you please open issues on github.com/derickr/pecl-dbus?
@Girgias what were you imagining it as?
@Gordon VERBOTEN!
@NikiC That would give the illusion that I would then look at them?
@Derick Feel free to instead mark it as unsupported on pecl.php.net/package/DBus
It currently claims to still be maintained
Was thinking that to reduce the PHP bus factor the foundation could provide core PHP lessons
@NikiC Thought I had done that already. Done so now (and opened issues).
14:46
Thanks!
@ln-s possibly in the future. Currently the main goal is increasing the pool of contributors. We'll (hopefully) reach a point where there will be enough php-src contributors that php-src docs will be necessary.
well to increase the pool of core contributors you need people who teach the thing
I'm talking strictly about code
I agree with the general idea of "if you have questions, ask them in r11" blog.krakjoe.ninja/2021/07/docs-not-included.html
But we'll eventually reach a point that r11 won't be able to sustain that
I don't there's too much going on here sometimes and people can't be distracted when they are focused
Working with php-src feels a lot like a meta language. In that almost everything is a macro.
14:53
It is something I'd like to see improved, but my knowledge of php-src is very little. I'd need to tinker to get an understanding so that I can explain it, but there may be others who're better at improving like PHP internals book and stuff
That is, future contributors who already have a strong understanding of C may be better suited at documenting than I
@Tiffany Being complete for one
@ln-s you misspelled "writing documentation so people can teach themselves". And phpinternalsbook.com and other resources already exist - phpopendocs.com/internals Unless you were thinking about something different?
Thinking about a more softened / pedagogical approach to lure in more people, like a youtube video series, maybe sponsor PHP core development bootcamps too
something more along the lines of the new generations
I'd settle for a comment or two (hundred thousand) in the source code to say what a function is for.
would say it's at least a start
:D
I mean some php frameworks give bootcamps ... so why not doing the same with core PHP
also get some more money alongside ++
RFC: Make PHP immortal (?
15:08
@ln-s one problem is that the number of people who say they will contribute, who then take up time being taught, is much higher than the number of people who will actually contribute.
Let them pay you for it, I can assure you they will force themselves to have the time
Plus you won't waste yours
win-win
"We're looking for open source volunteers who have enough spare cash to pay for the privilege"? That sounds optimistic.
Not like that, like I was saying, some frameworks like symfony have bootcamps and stuff like that, the way I see PHP core is just a C framework, so why couldn't the PHP foundation offer paid training on Zend engine ?
Symfony bootcamps are not free
I'd take that bootcamp
Would gladly pay for it
It could step up my PHP game a lot
I'd pay for someone to go through and drop some docblocks on the API xD but I have no idea if they'd be accepted in a PR
We need elephpant teachers who are paid to teach core PHP in bootcamps so if someone leaves the project there's a pool of people who have taken a bootcamp / course and can be potentially integrated and paid in the PHP foundation to continue the work of someone who left
3
15:16
@ln-s I so can't agree more with you!
Thank you for your support :)
I think derick potentially could be a kick ass teacher
Plus, it's a task that could be done some hours a day, not interrupting with work flow of main collaborators who have left and also get some cash on the side, for example NikiC could pass on the knowledge some hours a day
I'm not volunteering anyone, it was just an opinion
@cmb Here's the remaining set of issue tracker updates (in some cases, source url also needs an update): gist.github.com/nikic/ae3cea42a9eecbabc1790936368ddf5b
just elaborating on an idea I just had, sorry if it bothered anyone
15:19
Only pdo_informix is left now, which has unclear situation
cmb
cmb
@NikiC thanks! I'll see to it shortly. And yep, pdo_informix is totally unclear.
15:52
@JoeWatkins Any opinion on github.com/php/php-src/pull/7635 as you looked into readline unicode issues?
Too damn close.
16:02
Finally my vote matters :D
@IluTov Happens so rarely
Though ... your yes vote doesn't matter, only the absence of your no vote ;)
@NikiC If you tempt me I'll remove it to make it even more dramatic :P
@PatrickAllaert So, when does the release happen today? ^^
Before I start digging, does anyone have any suggestions in advance for how I could bump the performance of json_encode? My initial hunch is it's memory based so I was thinking of cloning the function and adding an extra arg to preallocate a larger buffer for smart_str, or potentially a JSON_LARGE_PAYLOAD which could calculate the approximate length and allocate that. Another target would seem to be php_json_escape_string which looks to be putting in some work.
@MarkR do you have a test case?
16:07
Sadly the announcement page isn't ready? github.com/php/web-php/pull/450
It's ready I think
@NikiC I have some example data I could copy into a test case in php-src. I'm unsure how to go about profiling the internal calls, is there a high resolution timer built in?
@MarkR callgrind or perf are used for profiling
cmb
cmb
@NikiC done :) (PECL perf is terrible; the more releases, the slower)
@cmb Thanks!
16:21
@MarkR does github.com/simdjson/simdjson support encoding?
@MarkR Doesn't really need to be a test case in php-src, just something that can be profiled :) Otherwise it's hard to guess
Well, it's easy to guess, just hard to guess correctly :P
@NikiC hah, fair point. Yeah let me pull it out into a separate script.
@NikiC I do think the two are connected and haven't found time to test yet, I will find time in the next 24 and follow up
@ramsey @PatrickAllaert you want to do a call for release process ?
@JoeWatkins I'm currently busy doing it, Ben is not available
Should I call you before git pushes?
This way I prepare as much as possible, possibly pushing on my forks for review
16:35
you don't have too, if you got everything figured out ... but the offer is there ...
Thank you, might ping you if needed
fog
fog
I'm going to spend 24th and 25th december on this chat : )
Why is this code not throwing any warnings or notices? 3v4l.org/WtTOQ
@Dharman why should it?
It's calling an instance method statically
16:49
@Dharman calls to functions within the class hierarchy are never static unless the caller itself is a static function
that way round you can for example call a grand parent method directly
Right, so why do we use $this-> instead of self::?
@bwoebi ^ exactly
@Dharman see: 3v4l.org/8GOJ5
@Dharman more explicit i guess
@Dharman we don't have to, but as said, when you want to call parent/grand parent, then $this-> does not work if the current class overrides it
My IDE complains about using self::
I wonder why if it's the correct way
@Dharman also 3v4l.org/kQ9Cj works perfectly (unless you remove the extends)
@Dharman either the IDE has a bug, or it's configured to say that $this-> is preferable if possible (should be warning at most then).
16:53
It's only Info
but still annoying
at least in typical PHP code, people use $this unless they explicitly want to refer to a (grand)parent. I.e. there's no need for self:: in non-static functions.
@bwoebi yes, because parent::foo() is same as (get_parent_class($this))::foo(), just like static::foo() is same as (get_class($this))::foo().
@SaifEddinGmati *get_called_class
wouldn't static refer to $this::class? 🤔
If anyone has any idea where to find a desk with similar dimensions, please let me know, lol
72cm doesn't seem very big?
T'is inches, my metric friend.
that is indeed NOT what they said
~182cm, and lol
17:32
wait 72 cm is not 7.2 cm lol
/immature humour
17:59
@JoeWatkins just pushed => github.com/php/web-php/commit/…
18:23
@PatrickAllaert not latest major version
18:43
@PatrickAllaert why are the changelog sections at php.net/ChangeLog-8.php#8.1.0 not alphabetically ordered? :-)
@PatrickAllaert @JoeWatkins Comments on the suggested tweet?
🥳 PHP 8.1 is released!

🔗 Read all about it at: https://www.php.net/archive/2021.php#2021-11-25-1

🐘 Many thanks to all the contributors to get this amazing new release released!
added a link to the migration guide and have now tweeted it
@PatrickAllaertwhere are you in p?
Pub*
19:01
@Girgias better try twitter DM :-)
I can't send him one lol
Also SO chat on mobile is utter shait
oh, he's not following you? I'll DM him to do so then
Woo!
Oh wow, we're much further behind on 8.1 docs than I thought we were. :-(
@cmb If a PR is in "waiting on review", what kind of review does it need? Am I allowed to merge it? :-)
@Derick eh, bad tweet
sorry what?
19:12
I wonder if we should change our release dates to not fall on thanksgiving...
That happened with the 8.0 release as well I think
@NikiC what's wrong with the tweet?
@Derick nevermind, it's fine :)
The top bar "php 8" link still goes to the php.net/releases/8.0/en.php one, and not php.net/releases/8.1/en.php
@Derick should update soon, it's already changed in source
oh ok
19:43
@Trowski apropos of nothing - I dislike the lower tier sponsor levels for amphp as they are too 'chummy' and are written as you would to an individual, not a company. feel free to steal mine github.com/sponsors/Danack
i need to work on my "marketing strategy" too
20:11
Are there any flags I should use for debugging memory apart from USE_ZEND_ALLOC=0? I seem to have some memory corruption: github.com/revoltphp/event-loop/runs/…
@Danack The lower tiers are specifically for individuals, not companies.
20:42
@kelunik meh. I think all sponsoring pressure should be put onto companies rather than individuals, as it makes people feel bad, and lets companies off the hook (to some extent).
How to fix PHP release announcement? php.net/archive/2021.php#2021-11-25-1
20:58
@Dharman is there something broken?
The source is here if it needs fixing.
"Take a look at the PHP 8.1 Announcement Addendum for more information." is in the wrong place
It should have been after the list
Okie dokie, a PR would be very welcome. :)
21:13
Thanks @Dharman, the change will be reflected on the website in a little while.
21:43
@PeeHaa ping.
22:24
wow, dynamic property depr came right down to the wire, that has to be the largest vote turnout in recent history as well
oh lol it's still open I just wasn't logged in
@DaveRandom the more controversial, the more votes, usually
sure, lots of names I haven't seen for a long time on the list, on both sides
yeah, reminds me of typed funcs for 7.0
@DaveRandom I am quite tempted to email on list to Andi, and say that it's great that he's showing an interest in PHP again. But if he's not got time to contribute himself, maybe he could get the company he works for to chip in a few bucks?
I'm still slightly floating on it myself, like 70/30 but not changing my mind, rip off the band-aid I think is the only way even if it will cause short/medium term havoc
22:33
@Danack It feels good to work for a company where i don't have to do that because they already started discussing it minutes after the announcement :D
@Danack yeh but please don't :-P the only two possible outcomes would be either completely ignored or (massively more likely) starting a flame war with a shitload of "sides", shit is divided enough imho <3
Hm ... should class_exists be returning true for enums or not?
Jul 24 at 13:52, by IluTov
@Rain It's intended. Enums are classes. Not all classes are enums though. class Foo {} var_dump(enum_exists(Foo::class)); will be false.
but maybe there should be a type_exists function that is less suggestive about what the type is.
@Danack hm, okay
@NikiC prefer no, but yes since ::class and get_class both work: 3v4l.org/0aegB
22:37
I was mainly wondering because the other *_exists methods are mutually exclusive
@NikiC yes
@Danack really very yes to this
I.e. only one of class_exists, interface_exists and trait_exists is true, even though arguably class_exists could return true for all of them
cmb
cmb
@Crell yeah, of course. It's mostly about 2 (or more) pair of eyes. :)
@NikiC the key difference with enums (vs interface/trait) is that they can be instantiated, in this respect they behave as a class where the others do not
personally I'd rather *_exists checks the symbol type and add a general type_exists() as Dan suggested tho, fwiw
tho actually traits aren't strictly types so maybe symbol_exists()?
const WANT_CLASS = 1 << 0;
const WANT_INTERFACE = 1 << 1;
const WANT_TRAIT = 1 << 2;
const WANT_ENUM = 1 << 3;
const WANT_ANY = WANT_CLASS | WANT_INTERFACE | WANT_TRAIT | WANT_ENUM;

class_exists(string $name, bool $autoload = true, int $flags = WANT_CLASS): bool
?
can't see a sane way to fold $autoload into $flags and retain the current default behaviour tho :-/
23:16
@DaveRandom spice girls like programming detected
I really really really wanna zigga zig ahh and I don't care who knows it
That's all very well and good, but do you also want to spice up your life?
@DaveRandom this is exactly how/why I ended up with my own decision after finally finding time to catch up on all the convo around it
also, happy delicious meal(s) day to all who celebrates today
23:32
btw I never knew how they screwed over (aka avoided being screwed over) by the managers who setup the band - youtube.com/watch?v=liwmRqRgojI&ab_channel=TrashTheory
@MarkR ugh they were so weak, I don't understand how they got so huge, they weren't doing anything particularly radical and there were so many better things around at the time imho, compare spice with e.g all saints eponymous album and it's just middle of the road drudgery
destiny's child as well, so much better/more interesting, tho tbf they were also (much more deservingly) massive
I was quite the fan of B*Witched
were they the ones with All The Denim All The Time?
It's entirely possible. My memory retention for almost music videos is lacking
omg en vogue, what a group they were (are?)
23:42
I was growing up around the time S Club 7 was on TV, although Steps was more fun to listen to.
@Ekin yeh, neither option is good, it's a case of least-bad :-/ I can definitely sympathise with the naysayers but I feel like no time will ever be the right time
@MarkR that show was pretty watchable at the time tbf, as was that other one with the pop rock bank with the guy with lurid green hair
s club juniors was one of the oddest things that has ever happened tho, kind of mork and mindy vibes, "really, this is the thing you are going to spin off??"
I have no time at all for steps but that's because my sister had it on repeat constantly for a solid 6 months, ditto aqua which was way worse
Aqua was good. Also a lot of things you notice about their music videos once you're an adult.
I also don't really understand abba tho which already puts me on the back foot with steps
@MarkR listen to the whole album on repeat for a few days will change your mind I suspect...
@NikiC Yes, we decided not to hide the fact that enums are classes and cases are objects anywhere.
@NikiC Fair point. I can't think of a scenario where it really matters though. ReflectionClass does mark them as final, so they should behave similar to a normal final class semantically. 3v4l.org/MCDTN
Ok it's also non-instanciable. Anyway, I think the behavior is reasonable.
23:57
What additional layer of security javascript provides.

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