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6:05 AM
Hi team,

I've just started my freelance career by quitting my full-time job. Started on Upwork and still struggling to get new jobs. Anyone with the help will be appreciated

https://www.upwork.com/freelancers/~01a3f131e5823416f1
 
 
3 hours later…
cmb
8:45 AM
@Derick yes; that is the reason for the rather complex detection/handling in config.w32 (if it's built in, it doesn't get linked again)
 
9:03 AM
@cmb Right, but if I would locally (well, CI) build a php_Xdebug.dll which get statically linked with zlib, can I use that one with the official PHP builds, which have zlib built-in?
 
cmb
yes; the tests confirm that :)
nope, if you link zlib in, that wouldn't work
 
Missing documentation for ReflectionAttribute::IS_INSTANCEOF ・ Documentation problem ・ #81463
 
@cmb That's a problem then. Because people download my DLLs for use with the official PHP builds.
 
cmb
yes; then just build the DLLs like in my PR (that doesn't do the extra link, if zlib is already linked by php.dll)
the test (running with the official binaries) show that this works
 
FWIW, I've cleaned up your branch a little → github.com/xdebug/xdebug/pull/787 — all tests pass now. I don't know what you mean by "then just build the DLLs like in my PR"
Uh, ... I'm not following now.
 
cmb
9:18 AM
@Derick see line 42 in config.w32
no CHECK_LIB there
because it's expected to be there
 
Right? so why does it check in line 40 and 41?
 
cmb
@Derick these are checks for other builds (users may potentially build zlib dynamically, or may not build zlib into php.dll); such builds should work (haven't checked though), if those users do their own xdebug builds as well
 
But the thing is, that I don't know what sort of build of PHP people use the builds that I make. They could use them with either the official builds, or a non official build which can have zlib build dynamically, or not at all.
Which I think means that if the ones that I build without zlib statically linked in, on a build that has no zlib at all, there will be missing symbol errors?
 
cmb
@Derick yes; I don't see a general solution, though; either advertize that these builds require zlib to be built in, or do not ship xdebug with zlib support, or offer multiple variants
 
If I only knew what percentage used the official PHP builds...
What are the PECL builds that the pecl build server makes doing? Are they also static-zlib-less?
 
cmb
9:31 AM
@Derick I assume 99%+ (even XAMPP and GH actions just use the official builds)
PECL builds are the same (only in-tree instead of phpize)
 
What would you advice then? Merge as my branch (reworked from your changes) currently is?
 
cmb
@Derick yes :)
 
@cmb Thanks a lot for working on this!
 
cmb
yw (and thanks for finishing up!)
 
Who's this tyson andre person? Long-time contributor?
 
9:46 AM
Well, he's been around at least before I started contributing, he's also the lead of Phan currently
He mostly does some engine optimizations other than proposing data structures
 
Ah
He's just pissed that Ds never was merged or?
ext-ds, I mean
 
I don't think so, ext-DS is a bunch more data structures and the maintainers DON'T want it merged into core
He also wrote some iterators last year IIRC
Tbh, I might look into adding a CoW list thing by introducing consing buuuuuuuuuuuuuut waiting for Dmitry's packed HashTable thing to get merged before I even look at that
 
10:01 AM
Projects like Phan are the only ones that would actually benefit, where you happen to care about both space AND time
 
Well, I mean some better data strcutre than just array would be nice in core, I think the main concern is that it's based on an object and thus is not truly immutable
 
Ok
@Girgias And SPL is not enough or?
 
@OlleHärstedt SPL is pure garbage
 
Nah, SplFixedArray has some use-cases.
 
Sure, but the whole things extending from other classes when it makes no sense, not being final, the implementation which makes you wanna cry, is mainly why SPL is shait
It's what we got
 
10:06 AM
Ok
 
But it's far faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar from being sensible
 
Not being final is a minor issue; others I dunno about
 
> class SplQueue extends SplDoublyLinkedList
 
Right ^^
 
Like whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
 
10:18 AM
I've no idea what a "Deque" is, so didn't bother reading the thread.
 
A deque sounds distinctly un-english, like it's trying to get rid of queues, an intrinsic part of the English psyche.
 
apparently its a double ended queue
 
I do get the feeling core datastructures are going to end up a trainwreck unless everyone sits down and creates a high level strategy for what's going to happen rather than trying to pass one rfc at a time =\
 
10:39 AM
yup
 
Yeah... The obvious RFC would be rather "Let's discuss improvements of SPL" or such...
 
SPL is deadddddd
 
Or if Vector could instead be SplDynamicArray, to at least stick to tradition.
It is, is it?
Dead = cannot be improved?
 
Pretty much
 
Why? If I may ask.
 
10:50 AM
SPL was an attempt at creating a utility hierarchy for PHP, before namespaces, containing many things which had no right to be there (autoloading for example), and with many poor decisions made along the way
There's very little appetite to try and patch it up, as those changes would need long deprecation cycles etc in line with policy.
 
OK, but without deprecation it'll stay forever, or?
 
@cmb Is there only that one thing for the 7.3 release, or were there multiple commits/issues?
 
cmb
@Derick there is the Zip fix, and also a minor issue regarding smart strings (I've sent an email yesterday)
also note that I added a NEWS entry for the Zip fix to all branches (that smart string issue probably can do without)
 
can i just cherry pick ac8fccee9 then? (the smartstr issue)?
worked without conflicts
Did stas not say there was a CVE for the zip issue?
 
@OlleHärstedt You can deprecate something with the intention of removing the SPL DS entirely, or you can deprecate specific behaviour. If you do the latter it may be that you have to wait years before you can finish the job, potentially waiting for a major to change the API surface.
Or, you can create an entire new API, drop it into \Collections and then deprecate Spl datastructures in their entirety, and avoid all the hassle that goes along with changing behaviour / api of existing things
 
10:59 AM
Isn't that the common fallacy that "this time we won't make the same mistakes"? ;D
 
cmb
@Derick oh, right, forgot that in NEWS; I'll do that now
 
Hence the need for a working group to create a high level plan
 
hello all
can anyone tell me query for previous row
id =23
I want one previous record from id
=23
 
@muniya You're not going to find much help for such things in this room, especially with how little context you're providing. I recommend writing a more in depth post directly to the relevant stack overflow pages
 
@MarkR Mm
 
11:13 AM
@cmb Ugh, too late for me now :-S
ah, no
 
cmb
too late for PHP 7.3.31 as well; let's just add that to the announcement (and changelog)
 
have a commit hash for me?
I have packaged, but can do that again easily...
 
cmb
9732381e5b7702924afd03a43d0a6fa546986e14
 
That's not pushed up yet, though?
 
cmb
github.com/php/php-src/commit/… (you may need to pull)
 
11:20 AM
i did fetch
ah, nm... partial pulls are annoying
 
12:21 PM
morns
 
Morning!
 
cmb
@Derick, I think github.com/xdebug/xdebug/pull/782 can be closed now. :)
 
1:30 PM
> You're not going to find much help for such things in this room
 
Eh? It was a question about an unspecified DB, rather than PHP
 
@Girgias Were you the one working on the 8.1 highlights page, which had a link to the yet-to-be-written enums page? I am going to go write that enum page but had forgotten where you suggested to put it. (And am open to input on where it should live.)
 
1:51 PM
@cmb Looks like you already have :-)
oh no, that was another one
 
@MarkR "FTFY"
 
2:24 PM
@NikiC oops
@Crell I'm writing the migration page, so no clue if we're even getting one for 8.1.
 
Migration page, that's what I meant.
 
But probably in /language/enums/ ?
 
Single page or multi-page?
 
Ehhh, if it tits in a page ? But it might be better with multiple, also the Enum base class shoul probably go with the other predefined classes
 
There isn't really a base class that is user-facing useful. There's the UnitEnum and BackedEnum interfaces, though.
 
3:02 PM
Tyson doesn't seem to get that design by polling is generally bad, despite the fact his previous RFCs that used polling failed...
 
@LeviMorrison has anyone said that to him clearly? And invited to this room...?
tbh, although I've been opposed to advertising this room as a place to discuss stuff in the past, I think maybe that might be a mistake...
 
@Danack I haven't invited him here, but he's outright declined to collaborate with me, so... yeah.
 
@Danack heh :)
 
this thread distracts from my own links, therefore is against the rules....
 
3:18 PM
It seems clear that he has a larger plan, but is dripping it out in pieces. I want to see the whole plan.
Something like this needs a broader plan with buy-in.
 
3:32 PM
I feel like I shouldn't be writing a new enum page but just cannibalizing the enum RFC. That's kosher, right?
Like... aside from removing "you" et al from the language, is there any reason to not just make the documentation page the RFC and be done with it?
@Girgias @cmb @Tiffany?
 
@Crell I mean, sure RFCs are meant to be reused for docs
 
Let me save what I've got, then try over with just the RFC-as-docs and see what I get.
 
cmb
4:00 PM
@Crell IIRC he was told to go with a PECL ext first, so he did teds, and now wants to push some classes to core. :)
 
The internals lack of process for larger coordinated changes strikes again.
 
cmb
yep
 
How can we actually fix that?
 
cmb
I'm afraid we can't.
 
sigh
Fatalism is not my style, except where national politics is concerned.
 
4:17 PM
@cmb If it's in PECL we know how often it's been downloaded...
(50 times in a month)
 
Regression: pgsql resource types ・ PostgreSQL related ・ #81464
 
cmb
@Derick And what does that number mean? Download 1m times, shortly tested, and rejected by everyone? Downloaded 1 time and then redistributed and used 1m times by other means? Just two extremes …
 
sure, but both extremes are trivial usages
the total amount of teds is 50 times
compared to Xdebug, which is at > 500 000 per month
 
I don't consider pecl usage to be a particularly good indicator of how useful something would be in core, given that the majority of PHP devs in the world do not use pecl packages not in the top-20, and wouldn't even if their host/infra team let them.
 
Sure, but it indicates nobody else uses it...
 
4:21 PM
Right, but that doesn't mean such functionality in core would go unused.
 
cmb
not many users may be aware of teds, but rather of ds
 
There's a heavy survivorship bias involved.
 
cmb
@Jeeves @MateKocsis, they're coming for you :p
 
@cmb @salathe should we merge the migration guide?
 
Perhaps, but if there is nobody else really asking for the functionality either, it doesn't really belong in core...
 
4:23 PM
I'm asking for it. :-)
 
Eh, I think there is enough demand for a library of data-structures and algorithms based on iterables.
 
A better indicator would be how much usage user-space collection implementations get, as that's the more accurate representation.
 
@LeviMorrison Sure, but why particularly this one?
 
A true-list and true-dictionary type in core (however implemented) seems like something that would be well-received, if implemented well.
@Derick For Dequeue, the horribly slow performance of shift/unshift on arrays is the main argument for me. You can build a reasonable user-space stack around an array that isn't too bad, but a queue is way more problematic in userspace.
 
cmb
@Girgias I haven't done a review, but given that RC2 is already out, it would be nice to have the migration guide in the manual.
 
4:26 PM
@cmb ACK, I think I'm mainly done with it so if people want to throw some eyes at it :D
 
A doc page on enumerations should be in a PR before lunch. Working on that now.
 
Idea: stats of extensions mentioned in composer.json from Packagist packages by downloads
 
Possibly interesting, but still, survivorship bias that must be taken into account.
 
5:16 PM
OK, it will be after lunch. Main page is done, but I still need to add the reflection classes and the new function. Oy.
If y'all want to get started on telling me all the things I did wrong: github.com/php/doc-en/pull/960
 
@Crell Why are you indenting the <chapter> element :(
 
Um. I dunno. I copied the attributes page and hacked it up.
It's indented there, too. For what reason, I know not.
 
docs being consistent, as usual
 
Yep.
 
 
1 hour later…
6:48 PM
@NikiC In the past when I use a circular buffer, it's always been fixed sized. I think this is what was bothering me about Deque using that strategy.
When I use a deque of linked list of pages, it's because it's not fixed size (well, and sometimes because the impl guarantees address stability, but that's more of an aside).
 
7:07 PM
@Danack Congrats btw, for having the extension having the most downloads on PECL (38.5m). It beats Xdebug (21.5m), timezonedb (9.8m), and mongodb (8.6m).
 
@Derick cool.
/tis a joke. I am lucky enough to be sponsored more than a non-trivial amount.
 
7:24 PM
@Derick Watching your video now... it's funny that I asked if you played the game... that's a definite yes and much more. =D I do have a question though... what is the most interesting post box you have a photo of? That seems like a niche hobby. =)
Also- your timezone mention about the default location, I am guessing Z maybe created that part, or no?
@Derick LOL! Also... listening to you, I think you may have ADHD. (Referring to your side tangents.) I'm usually pretty good at recognizing it because i have it. =P
HAHA! "I will not talk about what happened to the parachute....... it basically disintegrated."
 
 
1 hour later…
8:46 PM
@Derick This is hilarious... you open for questions and get questions about the game- not about PHP.
 
9:12 PM
@StatikStasis which video?
 
OK, I am 100% certain I need to do something else to wire up the new file(s) to the book because there's no way I had no XML syntax errors at all my first try: https://github.com/php/doc-en/pull/960

Can someone remind me what I'm missing? :-)
 
By chance have you tried rendering it locally? :P
 
I don't think I ever set that up. :-)
 
doc.php.net/tutorial/local-setup.php I redid the tutorial so it makes sense :P
you would be a good test subject
 
9:21 PM
guineapig.gif
 
cmb
@Crell start by giving a unique xml:id to the chapter :)
 
Excrement. I thought I caught all of those.
 
cmb
also github.com/php/doc-en/pull/877 might be helpful
 
@Crell Did you add the chapter to the book yet? If not, add &language.enumerations; in doc-base/manual.xml.in where all of the other &language.*; entities are.
 
@salathe That's the bit I was missing. Thanks. (I knew there was some index file I needed to add it to, but couldn't recall what.)
Also... doc-base? I'm on doc-en.
 
9:24 PM
Yes, doc-base.
 
cmb
yep, doc-base, and this is the problem that configure won't get "right"
for now, you need a local setup (or somebody with a local setup to check)
 
Ugh. So adding pages has to hit 2 separate repos? That didn't used to be the case...
 
it's always been the case for rendering... three repos actually
 
SVN was one big repo so it wasn't a problem.
 
doc-base to configure and verify the XML, phd to render and convert the files into a representation of the manual
that's right...
it's been a year and I've already purged the memory of SVN
 
9:27 PM
I wonder if I really haven't added pages since before the svn move. Could well be, I did all of that for PHP 8.0 a year ago.
 
Anyway, nowadays, yes you need several Git repos to author, verify, etc. the docs locally.
 
sigh
 
the tutorial I rewrote explains this :)
 
^ +1
 
If that's too much of a burden, there's the door. *points* (was that too blunt? :P)
 
9:29 PM
@salathe ... Yes.
 
cmb
I guess, sometime I will invent something so that such jobs could be done automated by VMs. I might call it "continuous integration" or so.
 
> Checks if the enum has been defined
What does "defined" mean exactly?
Should it not say "Checks if the enum exists"?
 
Same as it does for a class. I copied class_exists() and s/class/enum/.
 
or more accuratrely "Checks if the enum class exists"
Ahh I see
How do I check if Suit::Hearts exists?
 
Technically that's a constant, so... Is there a constant_exists()?
 
9:34 PM
> Checks whether a given named constant exists
 
^
 
well, that's a mess
 
Yip.
@Tiffany Hm. The configure script doesn't detect that I am apparently missing sqlite in my local installation.
 
What am I doing wrong? 3v4l.org/neLTu
 
... And after I install sqlite3, phd is still complaining that SQLite3 doesn't exist. Curious.
 
9:38 PM
defined(Suit::Hearts::class); doesn't work either
there are separate ini files, so make sure you edit the right one
 
@cmb no comment...
 
@Dharman use a string
 
... The sqlite package didn't create a ini file? WTH, Ubuntu?
(I only have cli; no web server on the laptop.)
 
@salathe yeah, but what if I don't want to. :)
 
then it "won't work" :)
 
9:44 PM
Ok, I need a manual on enumerations, because I have no idea how to use them 3v4l.org/UIlOt
SUIT can be capitalized, but Heart can't? Why?
Where's the consistency?
 
Suit is a class. Heart is a constant
 
it's an enum
 
@Dharman I'm literally working on that right now!!! But see the RFC, which is basically what the docs will be.
 
:P
 
Enums are built on classes.
 
9:46 PM
@Dharman It's a class :)
 
NVM, I got it to work 3v4l.org/Hi0DX
Ohh this is even simpler: 3v4l.org/Z9FAS
but for consistency: 3v4l.org/K6KZv
 
should be noted, you're abusing the case insensitivity of names :P
SUIT instead of Suit
 
shush, it works
 
I guess not technically abuse since it's allowed, but it's messy
 
OK, um, this is weird. I'm running PHP 8.0 locally, via ondrej's PPAs. But the php-sqlite3 package is... only available for versions earlier than that. Wha?
 
9:52 PM
@Crell it should work, I think...
there was a bug rendering the docs using 8.0 but it's been fixed
 
phd should work once I get it sqlite. That's what is mysteriously... not happening.
 
@Crell github.com/php/phd/pull/39 (this was the bugfix)
this is what happened on 8.0 bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=81221
 
php8.0-sqlite3 is just... missing from the package catalog. WTF?
 
3v4l.org/uibJ7 "Enum case value must be constant" well then, WHAT IS IT?
 
> Equivalent values must be literals or literal expressions. Constants and constant expressions are not supported. That is, 1+1 is allowed, but 1 + SOME_CONST is not. This is primarily due to implementation complexity. (See Future Scope below.)
(From the RFC.)
 
10:02 PM
So why doesn't the error message say "Enum case value must be a literal or a literal expression"
 
Ask Ilija and Nikita. :-) I had nothing to do with that. (Sounds like a usability bug; possibly fixable in RCs?)
OK, well, I have NFI what is going on here...
Oh good. Pecl has sqlite3 and SQLite. Why both? No idea. Which one is more up to date? Guess!
 
Enum case value must be constant ・ Scripting Engine problem ・ #81465
 
And either way, phpize isn't in this Docker container. FML.
 
cmb
10:30 PM
 
@Tiffany Note that I'm not sure how many systems have an open command on the CLI.
 
cmb
10:52 PM
^ is that macOS?
 
Maybe, that was part of the original tutorial. I left it.
I just vim stuff
 
I think it's mac only.
 
11:14 PM
@StatikStasis :-D I do play it a lot :-)
 
@Dharman maybe the implementor just thought "constant value" I guess a PR improving the wording is happily accepted
 
Seeing PHP randomly mentioned in a Twitter thread, in a positive manner (references changes made in 8.1). what year is this or better yet it's taken this long to reach this point
 
11:41 PM
Just went through the feature list; indeed 8.1 quite a large release.
 
Wonder what's going to land in 8.2
 
"PHP is awesome now that is has all these features that $other_language doesn't have either."
@Girgias I'd love to see ADTs, pattern matching, and operator overloading. Those are the things-on-the-radar that excite me so far. (The first two are far on the radar, sadly.)
 
Yeah, those would be cool
 

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