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12:56 AM
@Danack but it's about 75k
 
1:20 AM
@Crell couple of tests fixed which should make more tests easier ...
when we write the php section of a test, we use closing tags, this is to make the file runnable outside the test suite
I don't think I saw any closures in test, maybe push something for that
 
Random Q about the partials, is there a plan to add something that will effectively reference the function + all its params, or is that already a part of it?
 
1:52 AM
good, night
 
2:14 AM
@Danack Amp burned through their free credits pretty fast unfortunately.
 
2:31 AM
@Trowski I think I read that the ARM runner will work on a Raspberry Pi.
 
posted on April 10, 2021

 
3:30 AM
Loads of fun @StatikStasis \o/
Subscribing to your channel!
 
 
6 hours later…
9:13 AM
@Crell I finished removing the closure backing, it looks much tidier (to me) ...
more tests you might write include stuff with $this, stuff with scope (private props), exceptions
refs, maybe
 
@JoeWatkins eh, don't we very much want the closure backing?
 
what for ?
 
I mean, it must be instanceof Closure, right?
Otherwise that would go against the messaging of "use Closure instead of callable"
 
it doesn't seem necessary, if there's overlap (like wanting a partial::rebind) that can be implemented ...
 
It would be bad if use of partials required use of callable types
 
9:22 AM
yeah you're right
well that doesn't necessarily mean we need a backing closure, it means we need to present the api that way
we can declare that we extend closure I mean, without having to actually use a closure
does that sound awful to you ?
I'll do whatever has less impact I guess ... it has to be a closure in userland ...
oh stubs magic stops me doing that magic
 
10:01 AM
krakjoe@Fiji:/opt/src/php-src$ cat Zend/tests/partial_function/type-check.phpt
--TEST--
Ensure reflected types inherit.
--FILE--
<?php

function volume(int $x, int $y, int $z): int {
    return $x * $y * $z;
}

$p1 = volume(3, 5, ?);

$r = new ReflectionFunction($p1);

print $r->getNumberOfParameters() . PHP_EOL;

$params = $r->getParameters();
print $params[0]->getType() . PHP_EOL;

print $r->getReturnType() . PHP_EOL;
?>
--EXPECTF--
1
int
int
krakjoe@Fiji:/opt/src/php-src$ cat Zend/tests/partial_function/type-check.log
crap, I didn't think of that ...
I'll come back to it tonight ...
@Crell regardless of this stuff, some more tests would be good ... just don't focus on reflection just yet ...
 
10:58 AM
Morning
 
11:12 AM
Wellow :-)
 
Willow?
 
Sorry, being silly... when I was a kid I found it fascinating how many villages were called Wellow, and thought it was a good greeting :-)
 
TIL Wellow is the name of four villages
 
I live in Bristol UK, my nan in Portsmouth, and would go over the to Isle of Wight, so regularly saw 3 of them.
anyway, all good with you?
 
For the most part. Gotta get some work done this weekend, slowly waking up.
 
11:20 AM
got a Monday deadline?
 
Yupppp
I'm almost done though, just a few things left to figure out
 
Well done, I normally just see deadlines go flying by :-P
 
I've had several projects like that...
 
best be off, and hope your project goes well :-)
 
Thanks
 
12:27 PM
\o
 
Morning o/
 
12:43 PM
moin
 
1:17 PM
o/
 
1:30 PM
Hi Could someone help in php payment gateway issue
 
2:09 PM
morns
 
2:25 PM
mornins
 
@StatikStasis ^
 
DO EEEETTTT
 
You are playing it too?
 
just barely started
meaning, binge played like 30 hours in 4 days and haven,t touched it since
 
Awesome so we have 4 people in the game \o/
 
2:28 PM
\o/
 
I've considered buying it but not really a fan of survival games. Maybe if we have a group.
How many people can play in a game?
 
10
 
:O
 
(which actually is just an arbitrary restriction)
 
I suppose I'll grab it and install it. May not be able to play this weekend though.
 
2:52 PM
well, it's survival more like minecraft than it is like the long dark
 
I saw a mod that added rarity drops which piqued my interest in the game
 
hmmm, mod on what game, minecraft, valheim or the long dark?
 
valheim
 
huh, didn't even know this was possible!
also @PeeHaa, give yourself a treat and do not google for answers to the numerous questions
explore the game, it's really nicer (I found) and more rewarding without being spoiled on the crafting, bosses and things you got to do :)
 
@Tiffany epicloot and creaturelevelcontrol I guess?
 
3:09 PM
@FélixGagnon-Grenier Building things seems... rough :)
 
@bwoebi epicloot is the one
 
@Tiffany all these people always using only epic loot but don't increase difficulty at the same time via creature level control :-D
 
@PeeHaa well, at least deconstructing them has 100% yield so I was able to get over being really bad at building without the game putting everything together for me :)
I find it nice that we don't need to respect the grid, and create round things or not squares
 
I am so used to rust's build system
 
@JoeWatkins @NikiC On the callable vs Closure front, I think the important thing is ensuring that if/when callable types become a thing (callable(int, int): string or whatever), a partialed function is compatible with it. What that looks like under the hood I have no idea.
@JoeWatkins How would private props and exceptions interact here?
 
3:22 PM
@PeeHaa Cargo is indeed a very nice programming experience
 
:P
 
4:10 PM
@JoeWatkins OK, just pushed a bunch more tests. I went through the RFC from Levi and added tests for, I think, nearly everything there, plus some object stuff.

Curiously, complex $this scoping seems to already work, and references already work. The new fails are around variadics, optional arguments, and things like that.
Let me know if you want more tests and I'll see what I can come up with. :-)
 
5:04 PM
What are your opinions and everything about moving everything that we can to GitHub? I'll ask a similar question in the mailing list as well, but I'd like to hear your opinion in addition
 
Check out the Ultimate Chicken Horse stream last night with @PeeHaa and @Ekin ! Watch PeeHaa die again and again! =P //cc @DaveRandom @Tiffany
 
:D
 
@bwoebi How are you doing on Valheim?
@PeeHaa \o/
 
5:18 PM
@GabrielCaruso I do not mind it as long as PHP can switch to another platform, for whatever reason. There was already time investment I think by @brzuchal to implement github actions. Undoubtedly, there would need to be a time investment if we ever needed to switch to another platform. Concept of loosely coupling fits well, I think. :P
 
@GabrielCaruso what do you mean by "everything we can"?
if you mean "all git repos", I think that's already done
if you mean replacing wiki.php.net with a gtihub wiki, you'll need to do some gap analysis (what dokuwiki features are we using, and how would we replace them?) and some migration planning (how are you going to translate and import all the existing content)
if you mean replacing bugs.php.net with github issues, then my utterly non-binding vote is strongly against, as they don't have anything like the feature set needed for a project of that size
 
6:11 PM
@GabrielCaruso I think it depends on integration with tools we need custom code for. IMO SSO is a natural way forward, using teams as a permission scoping mechanism, but for things requiring more complex behaviour like voting, we may need to add custom code (which would also be a perfect opportunity to add STV and stop this 30 votes on a page problem)
 
7:09 PM
yeah, using github to do the auth probably makes sense, particularly because I'm not sure the other way around is possible (i.e. pushing to github but authenticating on main.php.net)
a standalone voting widget that used that auth would probably be fairly straight-forward; there are also websites that do that already, and might be willing to extend the project a free account
 
Then we'd need to figure out how to tie those into Docuwiki.
 
7:24 PM
@IMSoP documentation, karma, sources codes, bugs, qa, distribution, and everything that we can
 
@GabrielCaruso I don't think there's ever going to be a single answer to that; like I say, each will need gap analysis and migration strategy
for bugs, I would be very surprised if you could come up with a gap analysis and migration strategy that made it sound like a good idea
 
It has to be balanced against that maintaining our own infra is a very bad idea
 
not really; there's a whole world of options out there
I'm not saying "don't replace bugs.php.net", I'm saying "don't replace bugs.php.net with that"
so if the question is "should we replace as much as we can with third-party managed services", I'm enthusiastically in favour
if it's "should we just use github because we can't be bothered to look any further than that", I'm much less convinced
 
7:46 PM
@IMSoP maybe jetbrains wants to sponsor their tool?
@MarkR it should be noted that most self hosted infra isn't as important as hosting the source code itself / releases.
 
@GabrielCaruso docs as in through Github Pages?
I'm not sure if it's feasible
suppose it's worth trying, maybe, would have to have github actions able to automatically build and deploy to github pages somehow
 
8:09 PM
What is for certain is we're unlikely to have another opportunity as big as this to refashion things
 
8:23 PM
@MarkR I like that argument, I saw Joe talking about the same thing: we don't have de bandwith to maintain everything
@Tiffany wouldn't go that far. Docs is doing good as it is. We've just move to git, let's see how folks react
 
@GabrielCaruso There's also politics, PHP could have had much better services years ago if there wasn't people who would cry foul if we use <X, Y, Z> framework to make things significantly simpler to develop. Instead half the dev time of any such project would have to go into re-inventing the wheel
 
@Tiffany I was thinking the same for releases, but: there's a lot that goes in releases, including singing stuff with GPG
 
@kelunik yeah, that's much more the kind of thing I think we should be exploring; Phabricator also has hosting options; and I'm sure there's others
 
@GabrielCaruso Ah, I misunderstood your statement
@GabrielCaruso singing stiff? 😂
 
👀
 
8:27 PM
Signing?
 
Sign versus sing :P
 
It's even part of the onboarding
Ahhhhhhhh sorry, my English 🥲
 
No worries
 
@GabrielCaruso I made the same assumption as Tiffany seeing "docs" in your list; as I understand it, the git repo is already managed in github, so what's left to migrate, other than hosting?
 
8:30 PM
@IMSoP docs build server
 
I'm not sure how github would come into the picture
 
And the server emails when the build fails :D
 
Doc's search is something that I'd like to improve as well with a sponsor, but that's later
 
... people search docs on the website?
 
a big improvement would just be to fix the layout on the search page
 
8:32 PM
I guess a lot of this will depend on which of the newbies ends up as RM, and how inclined they are to shake things up
 
not sure most of it falls under the RM
there's a whole separate php-web mailing list, for a start
 
For docs ya, I was thinking more about releases in general
 
yeah, release process I don't know much about
I think getting someone to manage the servers that are still needed would be a good idea; there's hundreds of PHP hosting companies out there who could do it in their sleep
 
Kubernetes + docker :P
By its nature it eliminates 90% of the infrastructure management
 
"Some people, when confronted with a problem, think 'I know, I'll use containers.' Now they have two problems." :P
 
8:40 PM
Yet they are often times the best tool for the job
 
sure, but they don't eliminate the infrastructure management, they move it
if you mean "find someone who can run kubernetes for us", then sure
 
This is why every cloud provider that exists provides an automatically managed kubenetes services
 
sure, that counts as "getting someone to manage the servers" to me
 
I run clusters that scale up to thousands of CPUs and about the only management I have to do unless I'm changing how something runs, is a single command line call to roll out a new version
 
I don't see much difference between deploying some PHP code to a Dreamhost server, and deploying an image containing that code to Amazon Fargate
either way, the thing we'd be outsourcing is keeping the server patched and securely configured
 
8:43 PM
@MarkR I'd love to run php on a docker container
Te source code, for some contributions
 
@GabrielCaruso I personally run all my dev and production workloads in it now. Gitlab builds the images via ci/cd, pushes them into a registry, pings kubectl to initial a rollout and done.
 
one day, I'm sure I'll achieve container enlightenment
 
On their own they're good. Combined with an orchestrator, they're awesome.
 
yeah, so everyone says; it always feels like a lot of extra complexity to me
but regardless, like I say, it's solving a different problem from I was focussing on, which is not running our own infrastructure
 
Well do you mean infrastructure as in servers and networking, or infrastructure as in applications
 
8:59 PM
servers and networking
 
But... that is the solution containers solve
 
no, because someone has still got to run the servers and networking that the containers are on
 
Yes, they're not magical. But it doesn't have to be us.
 
nor does a non-containerised server
 
You've seen how that went for us
 
9:02 PM
I think we're talking at cross-purposes here
I'm saying switch off the current servers, and get someone like Dreamhost to give us a managed PHP server which we can just deploy code to
that won't fix any vulnerabilities in the PHP code we deploy, but nor will putting it in a container
 
I wasn't aware the dreamhost offered managed dedicated / vps servers
 
I don't know for sure that they do, but there are absolutely people who do
they were just the first name that came into my head, because I have an account there
 
Hard to gauge what they do as I can only see line of text relating to management
 
like I say, it's just an example
the point is, if the problem is "the OS hasn't been patched in 6 months because our last volunteer got a new job", the solution is "get someone else to patch the OS"
if the problem is "bugs.php.net is awful and nobody's looked at the source code in 20 years", the solution is "find a decent bug tracking system that has actual developers working on it"
 
 
1 hour later…
10:19 PM
@StatikStasis I am hopefully shortly going to become solvent again, and will finally be able to be do stuff/buy things for myself without just working the whole time, and I am gonna rinse you all at everything
goldeneye is still a thing, right?
fifa '98, I was good at that
 

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