« first day (3680 days earlier)      last day (1274 days later) » 

12:19 AM
Pattern matching RFC, still work-in-progress but available for pre-draft commentary: wiki.php.net/rfc/pattern-matching
3
@IluTov @NikiC especially ^^
(Someone care to pin that?)
 
you know you have teh powah, right? :-P
that italicised name doesn't come with many privileges but that's one of them
 
I thought you can't pin your own comments to the right rail.
 
you can't star but you can pin
 
Wait, wait, when did I get italicized? And what does that mean?
 
although your pin now counts as a star
it's a little leaky, this chat :-P
@Crell "room owner" i.e. you have teh powah to pin shit and (temp) kick people and view deleted messages in history
 
12:22 AM
mind_blown.gif
 
I think that's about it in terms of stuff you can do
 
/me goes mad with power.
 
Oct 24 at 23:00, by DaveRandom
Welcome to The People's Republic of Room 11
 
Da, tovarisch.
 
@Crell I did precisely that a couple of weeks ago, but in a really socialist way because all I did was give a bunch of other people power equal to me
I know how to rebel.
 
12:25 AM
I promoted Sara and Trowski in my mad power grab, but honestly they should've been ROs before me, imo
 
imho anyone who is a "trusted regular" (subjective but generally agreed on) should be RO
 
I think cmb should be promoted too
 
another part of being RO is that you are trusted to make decisions like that yourself, btw :-P
 
I'm on my phone 😳
 
12:27 AM
you don't need to ask permission, at least not my permission, it's not like I made the thing :-P
@Tiffany ah kk
 
@DaveRandom should I get chocolate
 
always
 
What kind?
 
idk, I haven't tried that pink chocolate stuff yet that's supposed to taste different in some way
 
Maybe I'll order a chocolate cream pie
 
12:31 AM
honestly right now I could go for some of those hotel chocolat random mix bar thingies
@Tiffany I... will leave that one alone, I think
so tempted to star but totes inappropes
 
ermahgerd
 
tell me that doesn't look delicious
 
I'll take one.
 
finally got another modern unifi AP, I finally have wifi that works properly(ish) \o/
still got one of the old ones but 2/3 5GHz ones is going to be so much nicer to work with
 
12:57 AM
@Trowski Finally had a chance to review the Fiber RFC. I'm afraid I'm still lost. I don't know how I would use it, if I would use it, or what I need to do in order to use it. I get that the target audience is basically "ReactPHP and AmpPHP's authors and basically no one else", but that's not a very satisfying RFC when I don't even really grok what it's doing for you. I need examples of what I'd even do and how to do it.
Where "I" could be read as "someone who is writing an async library, which is probably not Crell", but ideally I should have a sense for how I would, say, make a fiberous array_map to allow multiple IO operations to run in parallel.
 
1:10 AM
$dave->age++;
9
 
@DaveRandom Congrats, I think.
 
I mean idk if congrats are in order for surviving another year, but thanks :-P
maybe they are for 2020 actually
congrats everyone, keep up the good work
<3
 
wait wat? your last age++ was like, three months ago
 
definitely someone else
or your perception of time is fucked
or both
probably both
actually I am now a square number of years old, every one of those that happens it's increasingly unlikely I will make it to the next one
although I have another square before another power of two
I feel like it's pretty unlikely I will make 81 as well so I probably only got one more square left in me after this
all downhill from here
oh no I just can't count, I am hoping for 64
 
@DaveRandom Congrats. Have some of @Tiffany's cake. :-)
 
1:23 AM
I just... in the context of the phrasing of how she brought up the subject of said cake, I don't think there is any way I can respond that doesn't seem awful in my head
Also I am considering making a phpie tomorrow if I can be arsed
Though it won't be peach, you can't get decent peaches in the UK in November
 
1:41 AM
@DaveRandom HAPPY BIRTHDAY YOU NERD
 
2:27 AM
So, What have we here?
 
sleepy people mostly....normally more activity during UK days....
 
2:44 AM
@Danack why are you awake? I'm probably going to crash soon...
 
My neck pain makes it hard to keep 24 hour sleep cycle....plus I actually seem to be naturally drawn to a 3am-11am sleep period.
 
:P
I used to be, then at some point I decided to flip it so I went to sleep early and could be awake early in the morning. Doesn't always work though.
 
2:59 AM
Are we proud of being NERD??
 
I am, but I guess it depends on personal preference. Plus, I think I know @DaveRandom well enough to call him a nerd. If he'll doesn't want me to call him a nerd, he can tell me to quit and I will.
 
LOL @Dave
 
3:15 AM
zend_set_user_opcode_handler not work ・ JIT ・ #80350
 
3:30 AM
@sudansuwal I am a geek not a nerd......well except on maybe certain subjects where I might get nerdy...
 
@Crell why is there no cake in that cake @Tiffany
cake = sponge. is this like a cake version of a Chicago pizza? where it's not really what you call it, it's just a mass of the topping material?
 
3:45 AM
@Stephen i saw that in Australia......10 cm high 'cakes' that are just mousse, cream and fudgy chocolate........
 
@Danack they're pretty crazy about that type of thing here too - its actually hard to find a good pre-made cake with nice sponge here.
often get this weird layer thing where it's alternating layers of cream and something closer to cooked pancake than actual sponge
and it doesn't help that almost nowhere uses fresh cream here, it's that horrible artificial stuff that behaves like Portland cement and goes rock hard after a short time
 
and that's the best part of the 'cake'.
 
I remember my MIL got (in her mind) a very special 'cake' for some occasion... last year I think, she was so proud of it.
look up "Khanom Chan"
I just... no.
 
sounds kind of nice....a cross between a keylime pie, and something made out of tapioca
or jello
 
the only way I can describe the texture, is "squidgy"
 
3:56 AM
I can cope with squidgy, so long as it doesn't 'squeak' on your teeth.....I had an indian dessert once, that was both the sweetest thing I've ever tasted, as well as made a squeaking sound on my teeth as I bit into it.
 
... like an undercooked green bean?
 
living here has given me a new appreciation for reading packaging carefully. "Oh that looks nice, a good old raisin loaf... what the shit is this. why is there shredded pork, the consistency of fairy floss (cotton candy for some of you) in my raisin loaf!?"
that link doesn't load btw.
trying to work out what rasgulla even is right now.
 
@Crell Not requiring the entire call stack to be polluted with promises. Proper return types on functions rather than having a placeholder that needs to be later unwrapped. Eliminating needless overhead when an operation could be async, but a sync version then has to wrap everything in promises. I think what I need here is an example written in Amp v2 and one in Amp v3.
 
@Trowski it's probably worth setting up a docker environmment in the RFC, so people can see demos and run them....I can look at that, at some point.
 
4:08 AM
@Crell Yeah, ok… I could add some more complex examples to the RFC and link to examples in Amp. I sort of hate going back to Amp, but if you want real-world examples, that's the only fiber code out there. As you pointed out, only a few libraries would benefit immediately. I'd add Guzzle to the list. Allowing sync code to play nice with async code will allow many more libraries to benefit, even if that benefit is just being able to use Amp or React as a dependency.
@Danack Sure, I've only used docker for a few things, usually something someone else made, so if you could put that together I'd appreciate it.
 
Feel free to hassle me if I don't. Kind of lacking motivation due to gestures at everything...
 
Heh yeah, I've been procrastinating on many things.
 
multi-shirking
 
@IMSoP Good question. $callback is invoked within the current fiber, then execution switches to the fiber scheduler associated with the given FiberScheduler object. I'll add that in the RFC.
@IMSoP This would be possible if a FiberScheduler instance was registered to a particular string ID (i.e.: Fiber::registerScheduler(FiberScheduler $scheduler): string), but that seems strictly worse than just passing around the object reference.
The scheduler fiber is tied to the specific instance, not a class name.
 
4:31 AM
@cmb I wanted to work on PHP 8 upgrade documentation a bit ago but I never got a chance to start it. Has anyone started it? If not I'll start working on it nights/evenings and weekends and to make sure I can get it done before PHP is released
 
4:48 AM
Intent to Remove: HTTP/2 and gQUIC server push - possibly of interest @Trowski @bwoebi
And on that bombshell....nn.
 
5:28 AM
@Danack Honestly that doesn't surprise me. Pushes felt like a solution to an HTTP/1.1 problem that didn't exist in HTTP/2, but no one realized it. When we implement HTTP/3, I'll have to strongly consider not supporting pushes.
 
5:54 AM
root@a1e3528f4ba5:/app# php -v
PHP 7.3.24 (cli) (built: Oct 30 2020 00:21:43) ( NTS )
Copyright (c) 1997-2018 The PHP Group
Zend Engine v3.3.24, Copyright (c) 1998-2018 Zend Technologies
    with Zend OPcache v7.3.24, Copyright (c) 1999-2018, by Zend Technologies
root@a1e3528f4ba5:/app# valgrind bin/console debug:container
==368== Memcheck, a memory error detector
==368== Copyright (C) 2002-2015, and GNU GPL'd, by Julian Seward et al.
==368== Using Valgrind-3.12.0.SVN and LibVEX; rerun with -h for copyright info
This is great, nothing usefull from valgrind and Segmentation error
 
6:53 AM
@DaveRandom greetings and lots of wishes ;)
 
@brzuchal USE_ZEND_ALLOC=0 if you want vg to be really useful
also, run with gdb if you want to catch faults
 
7:51 AM
Good morning phpeople
 
g'morns
 
8:47 AM
Incorrect detection of zip_*_method_supported() availability in libzip ・ Zip Related ・ #80351
 
9:17 AM
@Crell Thanks Larry! So, is this the RFC you want to pursue first? I'd drop % for variable bindings, it's something you need to learn but when you know it shouldn't be more confusing than with the %. Point{%$z, %$x, y: 4} looks very busy to me. I also still think is per arm would be better, otherwise we're essentially creating another kind of match expression. Did you create the draft on the wiki directly? I wanted to fix some typos.
 
9:43 AM
morns
 
good morning
 
@Danack Yeap, no problem. Changing the RFC was just an idea, the note added to it sounds better indeed
@cmb Thanks for the links, I'll take a look into those during the next days to help with it :)
 
cmb
9:59 AM
@scorgn there is github.com/php/doc-en/pull/170. There is still the need for documentation about several of the major new features.
 
@NikiC Yeah, and they also have a custom build running already, I won't release it
 
Wes
10:29 AM
good morning fine people
 
10:57 AM
good morning
 
11:12 AM
Mobile SO is being dumb
@Stephen because it's a pie, not a cake
 
@Tiffany oh well good.
and by pie you mean, it's got pastry and is baked right?
 
what are the ingredients.
 
11:28 AM
@Stephen the way she introduced the concept, I'm not even certain it's legal in all 50 states
 
.... given what else is going on in the US right now, I'm pretty sure "but the president has done it" could be considered a legal defence for almost anything
 
@Danack I think the concept is good, but the actual ways it has been made use of have been quite meager ... I think the pushes shall remain for another 5 years and then be re-evaluated
 
@Stephen the crust is baked. It's similar concept to like a lemon meringue pie
@DaveRandom 🙄
It IS called a chocolate cream pie, you numpty
@Stephen difference is it doesn't have meringue, and depending on how the chocolate cream is made, it's either like a mousse or a chocolate pudding, topped with whipped cream
Another name is "French silk pie" but that sounds ridiculous to me
 
@Tiffany also, im not sure how silk compares to chocolate on the "can I chew it" scale.
or "do I want to chew it" even, given where silk comes from.
 
Exactly
Wtf, today is Thursday already?
This week has flown by. It still feels like Tuesday. Though I guess Thursday can be considered a mutant Tuesday.
 
Wes
 
@cmb I want to say I'll help, but I'm still having trouble juggling work, life and the other things I want and need to do, and by the time I figure out how to juggle it all, 8 will already be out. :| Another issue is words haven't been coming to me as well lately. I've had trouble trying to document stuff for work.
 
cmb
np :)
 
Technical writer's block
 
Wes
my stupid racing car chair broke :(
 
@Tiffany I once worked in a gov. department where the head of the testing team, when asked what his team was doing (hint: 3/5 of fuck all) came out with some kind of verbal diarrhoea that literally included the phrase "and so we must do the stuff, and the things". I dont know if he was channeling Homer Simpson that day or if he thought everyone else in the room was stupid..
 
11:58 AM
@Stephen maybe a bit of both
@Wes how'd it break?
 
Wes
by covid19 fat
 
:(
 
Wes
:B
 
@Wes I know this is not a joke but... lol
 
Weight gain/loss seems to have flipped for people during the pandemic
 
Wes
12:01 PM
@DaveRandom covid19 fat on top of covid18 covid17 covid16 covid15 etc fat
i blame covidN for fat
 
"weight gain/loss" is one of those things that really makes my face twitch
if you want to lose weight just go to somewhere with less gravity
mass loss is what people are actually trying to achieve
 
@DaveRandom yes, let me just jump into my rocket ship...
 
@Tiffany anyway, I was going somewhere with that. If you can't think of the words to describe it, just pull a homer. "If you wish to use the features of <thing>, first do the stuff, and then optionally, do some things."
 
@Tiffany yeh indeed, which is exactly why I (almost) never point that out
 
@Stephen for a blog post, that may be fine, but for technical documentation, I have to disagree :P
 
12:04 PM
@Tiffany but every great technical manual is just about stuff and things.
 
correcting people's speech semantically is a great way to make friends, I have found
 
@DaveRandom makes you "fun at parties" .................. not ......... totally not from personal experience .........
@Stephen if by stuff and things, you mean actual details, then yes
 
@Tiffany no I mean the words "stuff and things".
 
@Stephen that gets an eyeroll :P
 
damn no image preview
 
12:08 PM
@Tiffany ♪♫ you'll always find him in the kitchen correcting people's grammar at parties ♫♬
@Stephen ^
 
@DaveRandom I prefer to hang out with the party-thrower's pets anyway
 
append #.png to the URL to trigger oneboxing, it does it on pattern matching the URL
2
 
@DaveRandom TIL
 
there are very few things I don't know about the inner workings of this chat :-P
 
@DaveRandom except about edit history versus delete history
 
12:12 PM
oh I'm still an idiot, that's incurable
right I'm off out, ttyl
 
12:55 PM
@IluTov I'm impartial on which RFC to start with, but we should probably try to get at least some skeletons lined up and the enum text re-ported from GitHub so that we can link to the others. Keep all the PM-y stuff in order.

For `match is`, it's not a hill I'll die on but having to put an `is` on every line seems extra busy to me. We could put both options in the RFC for now and see what The List thinks about it when it goes public, then go with the feedback.
Regarding the %, here's my concern:

$desired_x = 4;
if ($p is Point { x: $desired_x, y: 3, z: $z }) {
  // Do something with the $z we found
}
Either $desired_x or $z needs to have some way to disambiguate the two. Flagging the write variable rather than the read variable seems more natural to me, but one or the other needs some kind of marker.
The RFC is just straight on the wiki. Correct typos as needed.
@Trowski Please don't link to Amp. Here's what the RFC needs to answer, in itself: "If I have an empty PHP file, and I want to run a bunch of tasks in parallel because they include IO, what do I do?" What do I put in that file?
 
Is there any other way to optimize it 3v4l.org/aS5gB ?
 
1:10 PM
I suppose in PHP 8 you could use a match statement, but otherwise, not really. You're not going to get faster than that. Though what you're trying to accomplish I do not understand.
 
Morning!
 
Behaviour of array_intersect and array_intersect_key changed ・ Arrays related ・ #80352
 
hmm.. php has parameter unpacking? Is there a comprehensive php syntax cheat-sheet somewhere that covers stuff like that?
 
1:34 PM
You mean variadics?
 
@Crell variadics is the receiving end … on caller site it's called parameter unpacking
 
@makadev php.net/manual/en/… variable length argument lists
Kind of near the bottom
Oh
Wrong one 😅
 
They're all called the splat operator. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
 
@bwoebi wouldn't that be argument unpacking since it's on the caller side? Parameters are part of a function definition
 
@Tiffany ah thx.. hmm.. it seems to mixed with the documentation for variadic functions.. kinda confusing, since both are different concepts (in my opinion)
 
1:39 PM
@Crell the splat operator does argument unpacking, right :-D
 
... is the splat operator, no matter where it's used. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :-)
 
...
...sorry, couldn't resist
 
makes me wonder.. what other php language features I don't know because they are hidden somewhere like little treasures
 
1:54 PM
Impossible to compile PHP 8 with libmysqlclient. ・ *Compile Issues ・ #80353
 
@makadev Probably a fair bit. :-) I have a presentation on the new stuff in 7.4, a book on functional techniques, and a blog series in progress for the new hotness in PHP 8 if any of that would be helpful. ;-)
 
cmb
@Jeeves hasn't this been ported to pkg-config yet?
 
@Crell no, actually I am looking for smarter way
 
FWIW; You're allowed to force-move the tags up until the release is announced on php.net. So during the time this conversation was going on you 100% could have just retagged RC4.

That said, it IS too late to retag RC4 now as you have released it. I have zero problem with adding RC5 back in, potentially delaying GA (I know you're not suggesting that at the moment, but it is still fine if we do).
@GabrielCaruso ^^ My reply didn't tag you, so not sure if it'll be a notification or not.
 
2:11 PM
@Crell might be a good idea.. I've started to read (more like.. fight through) nikic's blog, presentations of the php internals of the last years, vm layout and whatnot.. but thats like learning how a car is build without actually knowing how it drives ><
 
An apt analogy.
 
@Crell sooo.. links? xD
 
@cmb Apparently not...
 
It looks like there's no public video of my PHP 7.4 talk. :-( The slides are online, though:
https://www.garfieldtech.com/presentations/slides-php74/platformshwebinar2020

My book on functional programming in PHP:
https://leanpub.com/thinking-functionally-in-php

Blog series on PHP 8.0, no master index but they're all still on the first page of our blog:
https://platform.sh/blog/

Scroll down to part 1, then keep reading. :-) The latest chapter came out today, and there's 2 installments left. (part 10 next week, then a capstone on release day.)
 
@Crell I guess the reason I dislike it most is that it's easy to miss.
 
2:19 PM
@Crell thx, I'll check that out
 
@IluTov Totally fair. How else can we disambiguate inbound and capture variables, though?
 
@Crell Going back to the expression pattern, something like === $x would probably be the most obvious. The rhs could be any expression, including function calls and such.
 
I don't follow. How can a pattern be any expression, when expressions evaluate down to a single value?
 
An expression is the map of how you get to that value.
(2 * 3 + 4) <--- An expression
10 <---- A value (which is also technically an expression if it were what you literally wrote in your script)
 
Right, but the things we're proposing for patterns aren't legal expressions.
 
2:27 PM
I'm actually not at all following the discussion
 
Or, sometimes they aren't. In other cases it could be a pattern or expression, and then they mean different things.
 
@Sara I can release RC5 next week, and then we can discuss delaying GA, no problem. Re-tag stuff is okay? I thought about it, but didn't even know where to start looking at what it could break
 
@Crell A pattern is not an expression, the expression pattern can contain any expression.
 
@Sara context is something like $foo is Foo { bar: === 5 }
 
@GabrielCaruso Retagging is discouraged, because git doesn't like moving remote tags once they're set, but yes. Retagging prior to announcement is something we've done before and may do again.
@bwoebi Which would translate to what in current syntax's terms?
 
Ah, an RFC. Excellent.
 
@Sara $foo instanceof Foo && $foo->bar === 5
 
One of many that Ilija and I have suckered each other into working on... :-P
 
@Sara Okidoki. I'm going to update wiki.php.net/todo/php80 with the RC5, as well update github.com/php/web-php/blob/master/archive/entries/…
 
ah the RFC is already there, nice
 
2:29 PM
@bwoebi Hah! My guess was correct!
 
@bwoebi As of last night. :-) Still some outstanding questions and some PM work to do before we send it to the list.
 
@Sara good that it is intuitive :-P
 
So `variable T_IS expr` is basically a straight === comparison. That feels.... less valuable to me.
While `variablt T_IS name optional_thingy` is an instanceof with a comparison. That seems a bit more valuable, but I'm not sure it's super useful.
It definitely feels like two separate proposals that just happen to share the is keyword though.
 
@Sara The big value is the broader type comparison, and then object deconstruction with binding. Literal matches are not useful per se; they're more just there as a degenerate case.
But literal matches allow you to do:

$res = match($var) is {
1 => ,
2 => ,
int => 'some int other than 1 or 2',
User => ,
};
 
Ah, combining with match changes the value proposition.
 
2:36 PM
The match() part is further down the file. :-)
 
Yeah, still reading through. :p
 
@Sara The literal pattern is mostly useful for combining it with other patterns, like $foo is Point { x: 5, y: 10 }.
 
@Sara @GabrielCaruso fyi I'm not sure that observer PR will even get merged
 
So I'm assuming it's already on the table since someone mentioned {x: === 5 }, but using syntax like {x:5} means we constraint to exact matches, I suspect for comparing with object props we'll want more flexibility. Sensor { value: > 10 } covers a case I can image in a match block better.
 
That's important :p

Either way, I'll be around next week, I can release something if necessary
 
2:39 PM
@NikiC Would it be something else fixing the same problem, or nothing at all? It looked like a potential crash bug, so I assume something needs fixing.
 
@Sara No, it's not a crash bug
 
The week of GA I'll be travelling back to Brazil, literally
 
Oh right, firing observes.
Sorry, too many contexts.
@GabrielCaruso On the currently scheduled GA day, I'll be doing a conference in the morning. :)
 
It's part of functionality for 3rd-party extensions, so doesn't affect core PHP in any way
 
((virtual conference))
 
2:40 PM
@Sara Hey, me too. What a coincidence :P
 
Oooooooookay.
 
@Sara Note that 5 here isn't an expression, it's a pattern. You can add any other pattern. $foo is Line { from: Point { x: 5 } }
 
@IluTov Ah..... hrmmmm
@NikiC What are the chances!
 
So I just opened that pattern matching RFC and ... %
Are you seriously???
 
@NikiC That's what we were discussing. :-)
 
2:41 PM
@Sara 24th I'll be in Amsterdam, the 26th I'll be somewhere in the Atlantic ocean :P
 
Per:
https://chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/50913552#50913552
Bah. How do I quote a message?
 
@GabrielCaruso Good to know!
> is this a quote?
YEah.. use > quote me, beeeyotch
 
@Crell I think you need to post just the link
 
@NikiC Yeah that threw me for a loop, is it because no other token are available or?
 
2 hours ago, by Crell
Regarding the %, here's my concern:

$desired_x = 4;
if ($p is Point { x: $desired_x, y: 3, z: $z }) {
  // Do something with the $z we found
}
 
2:43 PM
yay
@GabrielCaruso I hope not in the ocean? ^^
 
There we go. How do we disambiguate $desired_x should be evaluated, and $z should be captured? % is one idea. I am very OK with a better one.
 
Don't fly with AirFrance then
 
Oh woah. I hadn't reached the var binding yet.
Yikes
 
I hope that too 😂

The plan is to stay 32000 feet away from it
 
Why not & ?
 
2:44 PM
@Girgias There are, most actually, this is a different context than expressions.
But I'd argue that we don't even need a prefix.
 
Normally, &$foo requires $foo to already exist and it gets read.
 
I mean okay, but why do we need a prefix?
 
Truuuuuuue
 
@Girgias I'm flying with Lufthansa, almost 1/2 of the price that KLM asks
 
{ y => $y }
 
2:45 PM
@Girgias How does the engine, or a reader, know that $desired_x should evaluate to 4 (and then match $p against 4) but $z should be captured OUT of $p?
 
Nah... that's just a different flavor of perly
 
@GabrielCaruso Was more making a reference to the AirFrance flight from uuuuuuh 2008? which stalled on it's way to Paris from Rio
But that's pretty impressive to fly half price
 
@Sara Also precludes short-circuting when the var name matches the property name.
 
Do you have an example of any other language doing this?
 
Which part of "this"?
 
2:46 PM
The part where you define a partial object to match against.
 
Rust, Swift, Haskell.
C#
 
@Crell The thing is, unless we create a literal specifically for variables as expressions you'll need to prefix them with === anyway, so there's no ambiguity.
 
@IluTov I have no clue where the === is coming from.
 
Right up in the intro. duh.
 
It's the expression pattern xD
 
2:47 PM
/me tries to be thorough in his RFCs. :-)
 
Links to the manual pages for those language's version of this syntax would be helpful.
 
@Crell Not concerned by the engine here, because if so let it be, but wouldn't z: $z be non-ambigous as I would imagine patterns to always be literals
Or am I missing something
 
@IluTov You're suggesting people have to put == or === into every value in the pattern?
 
Ah, that flight. Yeah :(

I'm flying to São Paulo (GRU), and I need to travel with at least 1 check-in luggage. KLM have a direct flight AMS <-> GRU, but that's almost €800. I paid €400 and something for AMS -> FRA -> GRU. I don't mind a connection, and I respect my money :p
 
@Girgias Whether we allow variables to be evaluated inside a pattern is one of the open questions. If they are, then they need to be disambiguated. That's what the $desired_x is.

Not allowing that at all and making all patterns strictly literal is an option, though.
 
2:49 PM
@Crell For arbitrary expressions, I'd say yes. For convenience, the literal pattern seems to cover most cases.
 
@Crell Ah right, okay I thought the proposal was only literals and I didn't get why we would need to disambiguate
 
@GabrielCaruso Sorry responded to the wrong message.
 
@Girgias We were discussing variables and even function calls in patterns last night; if we do that, disambiguation will be required.
 
@GabrielCaruso Seems fair, I just don't really like Frankfurt as for some reason my connections are always on the opposite side of the airport, respecting money is great but I started respecting my time also with my flight considerations lol
@Crell Missed that discussion, but & wouldn't be possible to use because?
 
@Sara I haven't dug into the details of those yet the way I did for enums. Are you going to make me do another big survey document???
8 mins ago, by Crell
Normally, &$foo requires $foo to already exist and it gets read.
 
2:52 PM
@Crell I think it's reasonable to discuss how the syntaxes differ, at least at a high level.
 
@Girgias ^^
 
@Crell Right, I barely work with references so... no clue how they really work
 
Like most modern devs. :-)
 
I do use goto from time to time, to the shock of most of my friends lol
 
\o/ GOTO \o/
 
2:55 PM
It makes for some easier code flow at times
Especially while hacking something together
 
You don't have to justify. Those were arm waves of celebration.
GOTO is far too maligned.
 
GOTO was Sara's doing.
 
Oh I know, I think it just gets a bad rep from doing shait gotos which go back and make the code flow hard
I know it's her work :p
And I know some people who hate her for that :D
 
I vaguely recall Dmitry throwing out my implementation and replacing it with his own, but I do feel a degree of ownership anyway.
 
@IluTov So, I guess I have more research to do. :-( If we find "no one else is doing X", are you comfortable with us not doing X either?
 
2:57 PM
tbh I use goto in PHP pretty rarely
 
@Sara That... somehow does not surprise me in any way, any part of it.
 
@Sara The only thing smarter than Dmitry is ... the compiler
 
End result is what matters.
 
Quite often in C for "goto fail", but not so much in PHP
 
@Girgias Except when it comes to API design.
 
2:58 PM
@Crell Ah yes FFI, also SimpleXML maybe?
 

« first day (3680 days earlier)      last day (1274 days later) »