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12:14 AM
 
@Danack hahaha
I got a question, what would be the most effective way to treat real-time aggregation of SQL data currently using count but this means doing about 6 queries, but I could pull the data for the specified range and just process it (a grand total of one query);
do you think the count would still be better?
tried putting the count queries together failed miserably
 
12:39 AM
@BobbyAxe just get it working....with what ever is easiest. then worry about performance later. but for me, maintaining 6 small queries is easier than maintaining one mega query.
 
12:58 AM
@Danack thanks I am just about to give up on optimization
 
is it something that will only be ran once, or will it run in an application?
 
1:18 AM
it is being run more than once, a few times actually and the results are expected to be real-time accurate
 
cache as much as possible
 
that was my first approach, till I got the notice of the results being real-time
I think I will just set one hour cache time if the last result is less than one hour ago serve the same result
 
 
1 hour later…
2:44 AM
@BobbyAxe Which smoothly breaks definition of real time service.
 
 
2 hours later…
4:29 AM
Hey team, is this documentation or implementation bug: 3v4l.org/sZ4dg ?
I expect it to return null
it looks like it's been changed in 5.4.8, wow
 
@zerkms from the docs:
> variable
Value to filter. Note that scalar values are converted to string internally before they are filtered.
null becomes ""
"" is considered false.
 
it makes no sense
but explains it indeed, thanks
 
I dont know if the docs changed, but they indicate empty string is always considered false, while pre-5.4.8 null or empty string would return null regardless of the NULL_ON_FAILURE flag: 3v4l.org/MmfGH
which sounds like a bug to me
so maybe that's what was fixed in 5.4.8
the changelog doesn't mention anything so my best guess is that pre-5.4.8 had a bug in handling empty string input
 
this what has changed the behaviour
not entirely relevant, but possibly code change had such a side effect
 
4:49 AM
this is the commit where it was fixed github.com/php/php-src/commit/…
the bug of returning null for null/empty string input is actually mentioned in the issue
 
yep, they didn't add a test for it explicitly though
 
do you mean in the added .phpt test, or do you mean a test for null in the code?
 
the former
 
php accepts PRs ;)
 
"beginners friendly first contribution"
 
4:56 AM
I dont think I've had any interaction with open source projects (in terms of submitting PRs, getting feedback, advice on how to improve a PR, etc) than with php.
it might be easy to think that "oh its a big project, lots going on, no one has time to hand-hold all these insignificant contributions", or that tiny projects maintained by < 5 people (or sometimes 1 person) would just jump at any help/contributions..
nope.
 
my "largest" so far was systemd yet, and it also was surprisingly welcoming/friendly to contribute to
couldn't get into Go (standard library) - they wanted me to fix irrelevant pieces of code and cover them with tests, because it was "similar"
 
@zerkms again - I would have naively assumed (given the extremely poor feedback/messaging from systemd devs that received a lot of scrutiny around the time Debian jumped on board) that the project wouldn't be particularly welcoming - but it's good to hear your experience was positive.
 
yep, I was sceptical too - but got through it (my PR was adding a timezones support into systemd timers)
 
oh nice work.
was that recent?
 
about 2 years ago I think
https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.time.html#

`tomorrow Pacific/Auckland → Thu 2012-11-23 19:00:00`
 
5:02 AM
ah. $CLIENT prod is still on Deb 9, so, no love for us yet.
 
that's why it has timezone examples with a rather exotic timezone :-D
 
 
2 hours later…
7:20 AM
morns
 
7:31 AM
@DaveRandom oh, great to know makes sense
@DaveRandom just pray that yaml doesn't get that widespread
 
 
1 hour later…
8:35 AM
@Tpojka I don't know why I always try to find the best way to do things, most people will just write it and move on, but not me hence my predicament :( finally went with danack suggestion keeping the small queries. currently considering making a view Table on SQL to aggregate the data beforehand.
 
 
3 hours later…
11:10 AM
Happy Friday
 
… the 13th
 
11:33 AM
... in 2020
 
....21 century
 
So what's the bet, alien invasion, asteroid impact, a mutation of the virus causing everyone to grow taste buds in their rectum? Make your bets now
 
@MarkR return of dinosaurs?
 
That would be cool though. We could ride them.
 
:P
saw that news today, ftw.usatoday.com/2020/11/…
 
11:52 AM
PostgreSQL PDOStatement broke json after '\' ・ PDO PgSQL ・ #80358
Output message when opcache preload file does not exists ・ opcache ・ #80359
 
@MarkR my town made it to a list in the New York Times as "COVID hotspots" >.<
 
@Tiffany Ours got locked down as one of the country's worst areas =\
then they just went full national lockdown
 
12:12 PM
o_O
 
ok, the issue was closed quickly
 
@Danack Probably "hate" was a bit too harsh, but in my opinion programming languages should try to offer the least number of syntaxes for the same feature, so that reading and searching becomes easier, especially for beginners. E.g. It's the same reason, why I voted against constructor property promotion. it might be possible that this preference is partly due to the fact that I can tolerate repetitions/boring stuff very well :D
 
I agree in most cases, however there's definite merit to having concise code that doesn't risk disconnection by boilerplate getting out of sync.
 
12:38 PM
@MateKocsis suimarco … yeah, well, no reason to express being annoyed, they should just have forked it into symfony namespace and be done
 
^ that
 
Or offered to help out with the already existing package...
 
@Derick Sure, but we all know that Marco is strictly against loose versioning restrictions and Nicolas got told off more than once already on that topic
if he could have contributed that change and it would've been accepted, then I'm sure he had done it
 
...but with the argument that he doesn't want to spend time on it.
 
@cmb you don't have github sponsors set up?
 
12:44 PM
@bwoebi Exactly.. Since then, Nicolas offered his help to maintain older branches, so I think that's the best outcome of the initial bad move
 
@MateKocsis ah, seeing github.com/Ocramius/ProxyManager/issues/630 right now - good :-)
 
cmb
@Tiffany I'm already paid for OSS work, so no; better sponsor others :)
 
@bwoebi That would be nice, but seems unlikely?
 
@cmb 👍
 
Those versioning policies happen for ideological reasons, not rational reasons.
 
12:53 PM
@NikiC yeah, I know :-/ But maybe an acceptable compromise will appear
 
we have realized with doctrine/dbal lately, that version requirement was upgraded to 7.3 from 7.1 over the last 2 years, but not a single feature of 7.2 or 7.3 was used. you could just change it back to 7.1 and it worked...
 
TBH the PHP ecosystem is really unpleasant when it comes to versioning ideology
Updating code to work on a new PHP version? One hour of work. Updating PHPUnit to a version that supports the new PHP version? One week of work.
 
@NikiC yeah "if you want to use the new PHP version, I'll force you to also adopt all breaking changes of my lib" … that's okay if you do few breaking changes … but when doing lots of them :-X
 
while symfony is bending over backwards to support old versions with a lot of hacks, as a user its really pleasent to work with
 
I think SF is sometimes bending backwards too much at times
But at least you know shit is going to work
 
1:16 PM
@BobbyAxe Balance between perfection and things done is tremendous skill.
 
@cmb has there been any discussion about changing oop5 to just oop?
 
Sweet. :D
6
 
and using redirects for oop5 pages to oop so it doesn't break google SEO and stuff
 
Also hi.
 
I know @Girgias said something about it a while back, but not sure what became of it
 
cmb
1:18 PM
@Tiffany AFAIK nothing yet. :)
 
should I bring it up on the docs mailing list?
since it gets used so often
@Girgias can I change your RFC to "In Voting"? :P
 
@Tiffany Sure :')
And yes I said something like that because I find it rather annoying but don't know how to do that soomthly without breaking everything in translations
Can one alias XML entities?
(actually it would mostly be links...)
 
it would affect translations? :/
that's annoying
I'll send something on the doc list
 
Well any references to those pages would need to be edited, and the translations files would need to be moved (although that's an easy thing to do globally)
I wonder if one can first move oop5/ to oop/ without changing any of the links
 
@NikiC for phpunit there is now github.com/Yoast/PHPUnit-Polyfills - just used it for one of my libs and worked smooth
 
1:35 PM
Unicode character property \p{L} truncates match ・ PCRE related ・ #80360
 
Morning all!
@Tiffany There is a range. I am actually born 82 which has an overlapping section deemed Xennials because they have traits of both Gen X and Millennials, which I can definitely see.
 
1:56 PM
php-7.3.24 fails with gcc 10.2.0 ・ Compile Failure ・ #80361
 
@cmb should we remove the pseudo-type page now? as it only talks about mixed and void which are both in the type delcaration page
 
cmb
@Girgias mixed in php.net/manual/en/… still links to the pseudo-types page; that section needs to be moved. void might be added to that table.
 
evening ladies
@Tiffany fyi there used to be a section called "oop" that dealt with the PHP4 object system. It was archived ages ago though.
 
2:11 PM
@cmb void is in the "only return type" section php.net/manual/en/…
Also we probably should make all usages of <type>typedec</type> redirect to their corresponding type page...
 
cmb
@Girgias ah, okay, that's distinct from "single types". Okay.
 
@cmb I made it so as I felt it would be too confusing otherwise, but maybe mixed and void should get their own page like all the other types do?
 
cmb
@Girgias I think it's okay as is; there's not much to say about those types anyway. And we can still rework if someone complains.
 
Fair, do I need to edit doc-base for the redirection?
 
@DaveRandom happy belated birthday! cheers to you
 
cmb
2:19 PM
+1
@Girgias these should be just links, shouldn't they? That may need adjustments to PhD. Also it is not clear whether we always want to link, see
no, I think these links are generally fine (well, maybe some edge cases)
 
@cmb Yeah they should be links, I know for the French translation all the type entities redirect to the type page
 
2:36 PM
@Girgias Very nice! Just one nit-pick: I found a typo "using boolean as a type declaration it will require the value ...."
 
@MateKocsis sigh I'll fix it right away
 
!!lxr sodium_crypto_secretbox_open
 
Total number of search results: 5
• [ /php-src/ext/opcache/Optimizer/zend_func_info.c::614 ] F1("<b>sodium_crypto_secretbox_open</b>", MAY_BE_FALSE | MAY_BE_STRING),
• [ /php-src/ext/sodium/libsodium.c::544 ] PHP_FUNCTION(<b>sodium_crypto_secretbox_open</b>)
• [ /php-src/ext/sodium/libsodium_arginfo.h::481 ] ZEND_FUNCTION(<b>sodium_crypto_secretbox_open</b>);
• [ /php-src/ext/sodium/libsodium_arginfo.h::610 ] ZEND_FE(<b>sodium_crypto_secretbox_open</b>, arginfo_sodium_crypto_secretbox_open)
• [ /php-src/ext/sodium/php_libsodium.h::91 ] PHP_FUNCTION(<b>sodium_crypto_secretbox_open</b>);
 
Huh, that's part of some a copy pasted section lol
 
cmb
@Girgias really redirect? Could you please give an example? (I don't have an FR checkout)
 
2:37 PM
@cmb Not redirect, link*
So basically it renders &integer; as a link "entier" which goes to the integer type page
 
cmb
ah, fine! Yes, better link to the individual pages.
 
Is that done on the PhD level?
 
@MateKocsis This is a conversation to be had in a pub over beers, so that we can get nice and loud and still have fun, but imo, so long as there is at least something of a valid reason to have multiple ways of doing something, then most of the time the argument of programming languages should only have one way of doing things, is an aesthetic choice that values 'purity' over how easy languages are to use.
 
Can I come too?
I like to shout about not removing things that are not in the way of anything
 
if you stay still it can't see you, its vision is based on movement
 
2:42 PM
@Tiffany appopos of nothing, I have a strong gut feeling that individual people donating to open source, when companies are not paying for stuff that they rely on, is a deep moral evil, similar to how billionaires support charities, when they hide their money from being subject to tax.
 
@Ekin thanks :-)
 
@PeeHaa yes, but you need to bring someone to drag you home when start sliding onto the floor.
 
Oh gratz my friend! <3
@Danack Don't you have bouncers to take care of that?
 
@cmb Gratz will look at it :)
 
2:46 PM
@MateKocsis Repetition increases the potential sources of error and also causes cognitive overhead. I think those arguments are pretty objective. Now whether you value consistency more is subjective. We're definitely gonna end up with a lot of mixed code if we do introduce accessors. To me that's definitely worth it.
@Danack We're probably a little late to keep PHP "pure" :P
 
and for the record, I think I'd prefer initonly/immutable before having accessors....
 
3:00 PM
@Danack Guarding mutation from outside the class is much more common that guarding from the inside though.
And regardless, the reason we actually write getters/setters is just "in case" we ever need to hook into them. That seems like such a bad trade off to me.
 
> And regardless, the reason we actually write getters/setters is just "in case" we ever need to hook into them.
 
I have a nuanced blog post sitting in my head about getters/setters I really need to write down at some point. The conflation of data objects and service objects is at the root of so so much confusion and complication.
 
That's not true for the code I typically write. Most of my objects fall into only two categories, value objects that are immutable and all their properties could be publicly readable, and object that do stuff, that never ever have any getters. Well, they have things that look like getters, but they actually do stuff under the hood so could never be exposed via accesors.
 
@cmb @cmb seems like that the only call to that function is from the method synposis thing which excludes the scalar types, which explains why nothing is linked
Wonder if it makes sense to drop that, but that will make the method synopsis change how they look I imagine
 
@Danack That's what I argue we should be doing. And it's what languages with package-level visibility rather than object-level visibility tend to encourage. (Go, Rust.)
 
3:30 PM
"I think those arguments are pretty objective" I absolutely agree :D But for me, it causes more cognitive overhead when I have to search for getters and setters in completely different ends of a class, while having two completely different syntaxes.

@Danack 🍺 🍺 :)

I'm sure that you both know the difference between simple vs easy. The first time I was made aware of the difference is when I watched Rich Hickey's "Simple Made Easy" talk. The way how I interpreted its meaning is that we should optimize for simplicity, and not for easiness. I.e. by not offering alternative, short-hand syntax
 
cmb
@Girgias oh, I may have broken this recently; formerly, format_type_text() was the default rendered for type texts. Anyway, generally adding links appears to make sense. Maybe you want to provide a PR?
 
@cmb I'm doing that now, was just exploring other parts of PhD, and realizing I don't understand anything :D
 
cmb
welcome to the club :p
 
> Heroku is owned by Salesforce.com
When did that happen?
Also, I kind of assumed Heroku had more revenue than it allegedly does...
 
@cmb It's highly tempting to start building something new
But that seems more pain than what is worth
 
cmb
3:37 PM
likely :)
 
@MateKocsis to understand my view on things like that, I need you to understand spaghetti sauce - ted.com/talks/…
And to avoid confusion, that guy has a habit of.....presenting things very confidently as facts, when they are just theories. Also, he has a habit of giving presentations to companies to make them feel good (while the company is taking part in morally dubious activities) in exchange for fat appearance fees.
 
Running dtrace scripts can cause php to crash ・ Reproducible crash ・ #80362
 
@Danack Ah, thanks for the background info! I wasn't aware of this. And I'll definitely watch at the linked TED talk when I'll have some spare time during the weekend. :)
 
4:07 PM
@NikiC And it also is very annoying that like half the PHP ecosystem relies on policies pushed by a couple people basically
It's sort of too much power for individuals
 
I'm getting multiple Can't preload unlinked class X: Unknown parent Y in ... warnings when using preloading (with opcache_compile_file). Is it intended for them to not be opcache message (those controlled f.e. using opcache.log_verbosity_level)?
 
@makadev Pro-tip: Do not use opcache_compile_file for preloading
 
guys, any idea how can I draw (print) a text hugely in command line? Like when a package installs, an "installed"-text will be shown on the command line
how can I print something like that in command line?
 
@NikiC because of autoloading?
 
4:33 PM
@Danack huh
til
 
@NikiC @makadev If you're using include for it, make sure your autoloader is active. :-)
 
> "It's possible we are right at the beginning of this Ruby wave cresting into the enterprise, in which case Salesforce is in a position to ride it," he added.
and at the risk of continuing a conversation with just myself:
> Nobody banned its lyrics, but my father just composed the music during the period of his disagreement with Lev Oshanin. The latter told him that the lyrics are more important in a song and that a composer is nothing without a lyricist. So Dad told him during the argument, "Well, I don't need your verses at all, I'll manage without them."
 
5:12 PM
TypeError with nullable types with JIT enabled ・ *General Issues ・ #80363
 
@Danack that's an activity for winners
 
5:27 PM
Potential issue in ext/standard/user_filters.c: Return Value Not Checked ・ *General Issues ・ #80364
 
5:40 PM
@Danack And continue to this song: youtube.com/watch?v=sJu4KKJ0UWA
 
6:05 PM
@Danack Was Ruby even on the rise in 2010?
 
Pretty sure Ruby was all the hotness by then. Might've even been on the decline.
 
@ЮраКосяк was that made in response to the (I'm assuming) original's success?
 
@LeviMorrison I was a bazillion things about it at that time and RoR, weirdly enough a lot of people going from CakePHP to RoR
 
6:20 PM
@LeviMorrison hard to say, I don't track other tech that much, but my gut says yes. It was the time of Basecamp and Github launching as a Ruby on Rails app....so 2010 might have been the peak in retrospect, but it's not unreasonable for the perception to have been that it was about to take off.
of course, seeing as how many security holes there were in github.....might explain why people suddenly realised that RoR was not so enterprisey.
Aug 18 '15 at 21:15, by Danack
@Fabor This was originally reported by "Bender from the future" with a year of 3012 https://github.com/rails/rails/issues/5239 - that guy earns a significant chunk of change doing it.
 
6:50 PM
Nonsensical error message says "expecting end of file" ・ *General Issues ・ #80365
 
@Girgias did you see Andre's response? news-web.php.net/php.doc/969387632
 
@Jeeves I wish we had better more fine grained error messages too :(
 
@Jeeves starting to wonder if I do actually have a mild form of dyslexia, I first read this as "expecting end of life" and had a serious "WAT" moment
 
@Tiffany That section of video was made from original popular in Russia series "Inside Lapenko" that contains many references (easter eggs) to other popular new and old movies. I can't say exactly is it done as a reference to the video above or not but very similar.
 
I have done a benchmark in my bot and it turns out it's much better to use regex to check if a string exists in another string than stripos
why is that?
The difference is 0.149492s to 0.008587s
 
6:58 PM
What does the benchmark code look like?
 
I always thought regex is much more expensive than string operations
Well, it's not a proper benchmark. I am just measuring the exuction time of each method
 
There are no proper benchmarks :)
What does the code look like (out of curiosity)?
 
public function CompareAgainstBlacklist(ListOfWordsInterface $bl) {
$m = [];

// string
foreach ($bl->list as $word) {
if (stripos($this->item->body, $word['Word']) !== false) {
$m[] = $word;
}
}
// or regex method
foreach ($bl->list as ['Word' => $regex, 'Weight' => $weight]) {
if (preg_match_all('#'.preg_quote($regex, '#').'#i', $this->item->body, $matches, PREG_SET_ORDER)) {
foreach (array_unique(array_column($matches, 0)) as $e) {
$m[] = ['Word' => $e, 'Weight' => $weight];
}
}
}

return $m;
This is pretty much the code difference
Am I making a mistake somewhere here?
 
@Dharman four spaces are indent, or ctrl-k
Also, a project that has been going for 23 years, specializing in a particular bit of programming, might have learned a few tricks along the way.
!!lxr stripos
 
Total number of search results: 3
• [ /php-src/ext/standard/basic_functions_arginfo.h::2467 ] ZEND_FUNCTION(<b>stripos</b>);
• [ /php-src/ext/standard/basic_functions_arginfo.h::3102 ] ZEND_FE(<b>stripos</b>, arginfo_stripos)
• [ /php-src/ext/standard/string.c::1890 ] PHP_FUNCTION(<b>stripos</b>)
 
7:04 PM
haystack_dup = php_string_tolower(haystack);
needle_dup = php_string_tolower(needle);
two memory allocations and two cache thrashing something something memory waiting functions, before the search begins...
 
That's not very efficient, is it?
 
4 mins ago, by Danack
Also, a project that has been going for 23 years, specializing in a particular bit of programming, might have learned a few tricks along the way.
but yeah, that's right. Doing the case transform on the fly, just before doing the comparison between two strings would be faster (probably) but also harder to maintain.
though this might actually be a thing that is worth doing, as case ignoring string compares is probably used in more than a couple places in PHP.
 
I was really suprised to learn that this is the bottleneck, because I have another function that just iterates the haystack character by character and is still faster than stripos
Of course comparing apples to oranges, but point is that this is not where I expected the problem to be
 
@Tiffany I did, but that's not my main qualm, those files would still need to get their EN-revision tag changed, which... we can't do automatically, but maybe I'm blowing things out of proportions let me do a quick grep search for oop5
 
7:13 PM
Potential issue in ext/standard/iptc.c: Return Value Not Checked ・ *General Issues ・ #80366
 
Pre-computing preg_quote() got it down to 0.007332
 
@Jeeves This is why static analysis tools are great, and also annoying.
 
I thought MS didn't care about us anymore?
 
Maybe they are an intern that couldn't onboard due to covid.
 
@PeeHaa they didn't want to commit to supporting PHP8 for it's lifetime.....but I detect some other motivations.
Wouldn't it be easier if microsoft opened those PRs in github?
 
7:21 PM
If they had, we wouldn't have noticed it here in chat, so good move!
 
was thinking it would be easier than downloading patch files, as well as give MS credit in version history.
 
@NikiC Do these kinds of fixes only go in master? bugs.php.net/…
(although I'm inclined to say they could go in 8.0 as it hasn't been released and it's pretty minor)
At least, I'm inclined to believe it actually is a fix; I don't know that.
 
7:51 PM
@Crell Going to try include next week. But might as well fallback to using on-demand caching. Somehow that whole preloading stuff sounded better in my head, few hours later I can't remember why I wanted to try it in first place.
 
@makadev It's a targeted tool. Used well it can remove a good chunk of autoload and IO time from your application. But it has to be used well.
 
The target for preloading is the code that is going to get loaded on literally every request.
Beyond that, stuff that is likely to get loaded on a given request might be good, depending on memory availability, etc.
Shaves off the request startup time.
 
Well.. I probably need some benchmarks or something to get a feeling for what order of speedup we are talking about.
speedup is probably the wrong term
 
8:10 PM
Don't expect much if you were previously using opcache :)
But at the high-end there certainly orgs that will appreciate it.
 
And if you weren't previously using opcache, HOW???
 
@Crell Well, sometimes it's because they hit specific bugs, but yeah lol
 
@LeviMorrison btw, you got the RCV link I left for you before, yes?
 
I don't use opcache
 
I didn't use opcache before either. Today I upgraded one of our companies laravel based websites.. opcache + php 7.4 effectively halfed the testing time.
so.. high expectations for production
 
8:18 PM
I don't know how you don't use opcache with PHP 7.... Hell with 5.5+.
 
small scale company, small scale project (mostly b2b).. no one really notices
 
But like... it takes more effort to disable the opcache than to leave it enabled.
 
I'm running stuff inside a docker container, all modules are deactivated to selectively activate only what is needed for that container
 
I mean, I don't run a web server, so....
 
forgot opcache
cough
 
8:21 PM
PHP 7 so fast, you don't even need opcache.
 
@Crell hypothetically, if your website requires making 300 DB calls to serve a page, then enabling OPcache might not make much difference...
 
My entire webapp is <?php shell_exec("fortune"); opcache doesn't seem to help much. PLZ HALP, K'THX.
 
@Crell Yep, thanks.
 
@Danack Ah, you've used Drupal, I see...
@Sara You just have to be an edge case, don't you...
 
I got yer edge case RIGHT HERE.
/me reaches into pocket and pulls out a valise containing bread crusts.
YES, I HAVE VERY LARGE POCKETS, DON'T JUDGE ME.
 
8:27 PM
@Crell tiny amount....but also had tedious conversations about using Neo4J for a site that needed to be able to serve 1 (one) request per second as everything was completely cacheable.
 
@Sara You've seen my Vest of Holding. I will not judge anyone for their pocket collection.
 
Honestly, it's been so long since I've seen any human other than my grocer, that I'd forgotten you had a vest.
 
gasp
I wore it on the webinar!
 
@Sara it is fast, but it was choking hard on my differential equation thing without OpCache :')
 
@Sara what brand of pants do you buy? I want large pocket pants.
 
9:12 PM
@cmb Okay sounds good! I will start working on some. Having a draft there already helps a lot so I can copy some of the formatting since I've never dealt with the documentation format before
 
10:27 PM
Pretty sure we already have / had first
 
10:40 PM
@Trowski kind of wish you carried marshmallows...
 
@Tiffany so like this might be a really dumb question, but can't you just buy men's pants and then you will get useful pockets? I've never been clear on why women's clothes don't come with adequate pockets, but also never been clear on what the practical difference between them is except the pockets, so can't you just buy the ones with the pockets from a different rail?
genuine, and possibly stupid, question
 
genuine pig?
 
10:54 PM
@DaveRandom I do wear mainly men's pants exactly for that reason
but it would be nice to have pants that fit my body that have good pockets
 
Wes
@PeeHaa yes, question is whether it should return the promise that resolved, or the resolved value
 
Resolved value
As it is the first promise that got resolved
 
Wes
Promise.race([a, b]); that assumes that a and b are interchangeable types, instead they could be different type of values
in my example, one is whether to shutdown the program, like a boolean, the other is pop() from a queue of commands
they are not really things they should end up in the same variable
makes sense?
 
Promise.race(Promise ...promises): Promise vs. Promise.race(Promise<TResult> ...promises): TResult
?
at the moment we effectively have the latter, but where TResult is always mixed
 
Wes
Promise.race(Iterable<,Promise<T>>): Promise<T>
rather than
Promise.race(Iterable<,Promise<T>>): T
 
there was a remix on the B-side called The Promise<T>
 
Wes
where do you find this music :B
 
@Wes what does it buy you, sorry? you still have to inspect the type at run time
 
Wes
const doNext = await Promise.race([popNextCommand, gracefullyShutDownProgram]);
if(doNext === popNextCommand){
    const command = await popNextCommand;
    // ...
}else{
    const shutdown = await gracefullyShutDownProgram;
    // ...
}
 
11:03 PM
Promise|Maybe - warning, kind of shite.
 
Wes
i can identify the promise that resolved by identity, basically
 
ohhhhh
yeh
that does make sense yes
 
Wes
whereas if Promise.race() returns the value, i have to make sure that one's type doesn't interfere with the other's
i had that problem also in js, btw :P
 
I feel like there is already a fairly clean way to do that but I can't think what it is so maybe there isn't
 
Wes
now experiencing it on amp
 
11:05 PM
@Wes yeh I think I have had it in C#
now you say that
@Danack that's a shame given how great that girls aloud track is
sound of the underground is the only really decent single of theirs
 
Show false instead bool in exceptions ・ Scripting Engine problem ・ #80367
 
@Tiffany Sorry, not a big demand for those from coffee shops. I would imagine Walmart or similar would deliver those. I’ve bought cereal from Walmart.
 
Anyone know of a non-terrible way to convert a markdown formatted RFC to docuwiki?
 
11:20 PM
@DaveRandom I had a girlfriend for a short time that did that. She (much) later came out as a lesbian. Tried to decide if that should have been a sign or not, lol
 
@Crell pandoc works fine.
 
Huh, I have it installed already, neat.
@IluTov Lookie what I found: wiki.php.net/rfc/enum
 
11:36 PM
@Trowski yeah, I will probably add them to my next grocery list. I've been doing grocery pickup from Walmart because it's the only store (at least that I know of) in my area that offers online shopping and pickup.
 
Is there a right/preferred way to rename an rfc wiki page? It looks like "make a new page, copy it over" is all that's available, but there's no delete option for the old page then.
 
@Trowski well, I'm a wuss so I'm not touching that in a public forum with a 50ft pole.
 
@Crell if you want to change the title on the page, just change it on the page.....if it's your own one in draft just copy it to the new url you want.
 
@Trowski I'm basically gender non-conforming, but I am very much straight
 
Ok, so I have narrowed down the problem. The bench shows only small win for regex in most versions 3v4l.org/rnFlh
 
11:40 PM
It's my own in draft. Can someone else clean up the old page when I'm done?
 
@Danack @Crell iirc @salathe has powahz to delete pages if necessary
 
I'm splitting enums_and_adts into multiple RFCs, so the name no longer makes sense.
 
diskspace is cheap....deleting pages should be forbidden.
 
However, when running it on my Windows with PHP 7.4.11 I see tremendously (30x) higher time for stripos
 
@Crell just adding - "this page is superseded by" would be better.
 
11:42 PM
What's interesting with 7.3.21 I see 6 times higher regex time too
 
It has caused issues with rfcs that were beaten to death with multiple iterations in the past, I seem to recall
 
If I didn't already like PHP I'd refuse to get involved just because of how clunky this all is. :(
 
Aug 15 '19 at 22:04, by Andrea
jesus christ the "auditor" thing
 
@Crell so much this :-/
Mailing lists are stupid and that wiki platform is terrible. I actually quite like docbook but I am in a serious minority there I think
 
something something reddit group
I don't remember the name of what that initiative was
 
11:45 PM
However, with PHP 8 the problem is gone
What could be the issue?
 
@Tiffany gesundheit
 
Docbook is the least problematic part of the toolchain.
 
Why is there a performance problem with PHP 7 on Windows?
 
@Tiffany Considering the unusable pockets on all of my wife’s pants, it makes perfect sense.
 
@Crell we should go for a non-alcoholic covid-safe drink
 
11:47 PM
@DaveRandom lol, was meant as a joke. My wife has a few pairs of “men’s” pants because women’s pants just aren’t functional.
 
@DaveRandom So, tea over zoom?
 
@Trowski yeh i didnt think you actually think that, ftr :-P
@Crell talk dirty to me
 
>.>
 
> One of our first goals is to collect as much feedback as possible from all of you to find the biggest pain points regarding PHP, it’s documentation, contributing and to find out where we should start.
 
11:49 PM
Oh brilliant it's Friday I've been thinking it was Thursday
 
We know where most of the problems are, the issue is spending a lot of time on the boring tasks of sorting them out, and building alternative tooling.
 
Time has been really elastic for the last 2 weeks-4 years, I have no real concept of when anything is or was any more
 
I was telling a coworker yesterday that this whole week has felt like one big blob of a day
 
@DaveRandom fyi, I only googled "what day is it today" three times this week.
 
I woke up yesterday morning wondering how it was already Thursday
 
11:51 PM
@IluTov What's a better name for associable enums? I am growing to really hate that name. :-)
 
The problems don't need to be identified, the problems need people working on them, and it's a huge effort to do so.
 
Lockdown has made me think about relativity a lot because of this, I genuinely think it has given me a better intuitive understanding of the lack of a universal "now"
 
@Dharman no idea - you might be able to find out something from developers.redhat.com/blog/2014/03/10/…
 
So it's all been worth it for me personally
 

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