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7:12 AM
morns
 
mogguh
 
Good morning.
 
7:33 AM
meh
 
 
1 hour later…
8:34 AM
Bore da!
 
9:30 AM
My apologies for tagging you on that tweet @beberlei, just wanted to give credit where it was due. I didn't feel right spelling just your name. :S
I guess I could've just given your name on the tweet instead, but alas, hindsight :/
 
posted on August 08, 2020

Here is a poem I wrote in high school: Eyeballs Eyeballs are gross And sort of wet They bounce really well And make a great pet. Eyeballs are white And really round. When they are mashed A “pop” is the sound. Eyeballs are small And they come in pairs Take them from corpses And nobody cares.

 
9:48 AM
last week we had power spikes - voltage spiking from the normal ~220/230v up to ~650v. The same day, the powered speakers on my desk stopped working. Ok. shitty deal, but this is life. So I ordered new ones. Was told that they were out of stock despite the stock status listing as green. Ok, change order to something else. They arrived today. Went to finally pull out the old ones and put the new ones in.... the old ones just had the power connection to the amp pulled out.
those fucking cats!
 
lol. Also, what country has voltage spikes up to 650?
 
@Stephen my little lady woke me up at 4:30 in the morning... about two hours earlier than I would like. Also I call that one on you for not checking the most basic of troubleshooting... they likely saved your speakers :P
 
@Sjon im guessing any of them when shit goes wrong. it's not like it's meant to spike like that.
 
Aren't transformers supposed to prevent spikes like that?
Anyway, going back to sleep a bit longer
 
@Tiffany I did the most basic troubleshooting. I plugged the 3.5mm jack into another device. slightly more troubleshooting would have been climbing under the desk.
@Tiffany what happens when the transformer malfunctions?
 
9:54 AM
we have stabilizers in our houses to deal with the spikes
 
I have UPS on the important stuff. even had one on the TV for a while when we had regular periods of under-voltage
I dunno if they're already common in the US or Europe - never heard of them when I was in Aus, but recently I've seen pure-DC UPS here, specifically designed for stuff like modem/router/CCTV/etc - provides variable DC voltage out via 5.5mm, and on the model I bought, has a POE port too. just tried one recently (had a full power outage last week too), it kept the router/wifi running for 6 + a bit hours (power wasn't out that long but I wanted to test the real life usable lifetime for our router).
not bad for something the size of two packs of cards.
 
10:57 AM
If we ever find out that someone is running with all errors/warnings disabled, I think we should ban them from the project.
 
11:36 AM
Somebody wants to review the ?-> string interpolation PR before I merge it? github.com/php/php-src/pull/5966
 
Good morning everyone. Why not enter the IF of 0?
<?php
//Possibilities: 7/14/21/28,   1-12,   0,   1...n

$valor = "0";

if (strpos($valor, "-") == true) {
	echo 'has -';

}elseif(strpos($valor, "/") == true){
	echo 'has /';

}elseif(strpos($valor, "0") == true){
	echo 'has 0';

}else{
	echo 'has number';

}
 
@Tiago Because strpos returns the position in the string which is equal to 0, and in boolean semantics 0 == false
Also, prefer to use the === instead of ==
 
Again
You didn't read what I said
strpos returns the position in the string if found or false
Obviously anything which === true will fail
 
!== false correct?
 
11:47 AM
why are you asking me when you get the result you seem to want
 
@Girgias This is an ambiguity, where in reality it is not a question, but rather a statement that through your help I managed to ask. Thank you.
 
Hi, anybody there?
 
cmb
12:03 PM
nope
 
I'm having a problema with the connection through a server made in php for a chat system. What happens is that everything is okay when I connect using http, but when using https, the connection happens for a few seconds and then is down. In the console, it says that the handshake wasn't made. I was informed that the problem may be related to incompatibility between SSL certificates or in configuration of those
@cmb I thought there was somebody
 
@RogerioBritoSoares php is not a webserver, you probably use nginx of apache for that. This sounds like a webserver problem, not caused by PHP
 
Yes, I know. I have this file here webserver_server.php in my VPS, the chat is working over http, but not over https. I think the problem may not be the server itself, but this certs that don't match each other in the background configuration. Anyway, if you want to experiment and you have a VPS, you can experiment it, I can pass the GitHub repository for you to see.
Sorry for my bad English, I'm not a native English speaker
 
@RogerioBritoSoares Did you run ssl labs tests?
 
I'm not sure about nginx, but I guess I'm using it. I installed Apache on the VPS
Not yet
Do you say SSL tests like those ones done on websites like ssllabs.com/ssltest/index.html?
taken*
 
12:18 PM
yes
That should at least tell you whether your tls is set up correctly
 
12:35 PM
Backward incompatible doesn't list implode() changes ・ Documentation problem ・ #79952
europe.jump.php.net requires password ・ Systems problem ・ #79953
ob_start manual: callback prototype differs between translations ・ *Languages/Translation ・ #79954
 
1:01 PM
@Jeeves What is that?
 
What are the messages or what is the specific bug?
If the former, it's our bot that tells us when a bug is submitted to bugs.php.net
 
1:25 PM
Oh, I get it
I thought this was related to my previous post
 
\o
 
2:13 PM
o/
 
2:42 PM
/me looks at numbers for attribute syntax.... whelp, guess that's @[...] then
 
for now...
It just doesn't make quorum in the first round
 
@Jeeves D'oh, it's probably not a good idea to be advertising broken auth on a jump host :P
 
@Derick After first round droop, I come out at 30 to 14
 
That's pretty strong in a vote that typically doesn't seen more than 60 votes cast.
I dropped @@ and <<,>> in my first round as they were both below the 10.2 threshold
 
2:45 PM
You only drop the lowest one, not both
 
But anyway, still a strong fucking showing for @[...]
 
aye
and there are no fractions used either :-)
Somebody vote for the same option twice...
 
Which was my third choice. I don't like that it BOTH has a possible BC impact AND doesn't grant FC.
@[$unpack, $var] = explode(...); isn't an unreasonable pattern.
Unlike @@expr which actually was a bit silly.
#[...] has some BC breaks, but at least we got FC.
 
I have used @list(...) , but not @[...] .
 
@list(...) is a reasonable workaround to the BC issue, but at that point # [ is a workaround to #[, and again, ONE of those gives you forward compat.
 
2:49 PM
@Sara You're the one who voted for << >> twice
  ["pollita"]=>
  array(4) {
    [0]=>
    string(7) "#[Attr]"
    [1]=>
    string(4) "<<>>"
    [2]=>
    string(4) "<<>>"
    [3]=>
    string(6) "@@Attr"
  }
Fixed now, it seems.
 
I really shouldn't make syntax suggestions when in a "silly" mood. :-P
 
whoops.
Oh... I know what happened.
You ran your script RIGHT while I was in the middle of reordering some votes.
 
that happens!
 
3:10 PM
@salathe :D
 
fucking computers ... that is all ...
2
 
Good day to you too @JoeWatkins :-)
 
I had to vent and the dog isn't sympathetic
half my ram stopped working today, completely unprovoked ... I wasn't poking it with a stick or anything
 
:-(
So now you have a 32bit computer again?
 
cmb
lol
 
3:18 PM
basically, I got 8gb of ram, like a tramp has (probably) ...
 
I'd send you a sad song to play on YouTube, but Chrome probably wouldn't have enough RAM to open it
 
3:34 PM
Re the mailing list: Debating how difficult @@ or @[] is to type is just tedious when some of the most common symbols in the language (, ), {, }, require the same or more keystrokes.
 
Let alone starting that discussion point and being wrong about it.
 
Martin Schröder wrote an extension for fibers and async task execution, but then removed it from Github. He is an author on the attributes RFC, so he appears to still be active. Anyone know a good way to contact him?
 
Waait those are the same person?
 
I still have a fork of the extension. I'd like to pull out the fibers portion and potentially propose it for 8.1. My internals knowledge at that level is very much lacking. Anyone interested in exploring that?
@NikiC I'm not 100% sure, but it seems likely.
I think kooldev on Github used to have an async framework using the async extension.
 
I think he's also @kooldev on stack overflow
 
3:50 PM
google are proposing native hybrid threading model for linux 5.9 ...
seems likely to be accepted, it would be an awful shame to mash together something that "works" too early ...
(I believe windows already has one)
also it doesn't fill me with confidence that the author not just walked away but deleted the code, is there some reason for that, is it fundamentally flawed in some way ? probably not but it would be nice to know ...
 
@NikiC Looks that way. I'll try the email on the commits too.
 
maybe if we feed the last few weeks of mailing list traffic into a machine learning algorithm, it will generate a new syntax and some new reasons why we should and shouldn't use it
 
@IMSoP That or it will learn to delete all its inputs.
 
@TheodoreBrown @kooldev Any interest in working on fibers for PHP 8.1?
 
4:17 PM
@Trowski I'd love to have better async support. Martin would know a lot more about the implementation details than I do, though.
 
all I remember about Fibers is that the API made no sense to me :P
 
@JoeWatkins Any sources? Couldn't find one in a quick search.
 
4:37 PM
@TheodoreBrown I pulled a commit with a simple task API from the ext-async history: github.com/trowski/ext-async/tree/ext-task
I think the extension got too bloated. I'd like to just introduce a fiber api that userland could build on.
What I'm hoping is that someone with the internals knowledge necessary could break that out into its own extension.
 
Thanks.
 
@JoeWatkins I believe Kelunik might have talked to the guy. I'm slightly concerned that he received some harassment/abuse from an asshole for "trying to turn PHP into JS" and so had good reason to delete the repo.
 
4:53 PM
Nothing in PHP seems to use ZEND_HOT?
 
@Trowski fyi, a ping is unlikely to reach someone if their name doesn't autocomplete in the room.
 
@Danack Ah, good to know, thanks.
 
@RogerioBritoSoares so, what is the problem? curl works fine and my browser does as well
 
cmb
Jul 2 at 13:41, by kooldev
To quote myself from the past (early April) on the problem with this and @: / @@ attributes: https://github.com/beberlei/php-src/pull/2#issuecomment-609466083
 
@LeviMorrison guess we only have ZEND_VM_HOT_HANDLER for now
 
5:14 PM
apropos my rant on the list, anyone know how to completely disable automatic closing of " and ] etc in PhpStorm?
I keep ending up with nonsense like []] because it's trying to do my job for me and failing
 
FWIW, I hate that shit too :-)
 
@IMSoP Preferences | Editor | General - insert paired brackets.
 
@Danack doesn't seem to be be there :/
 
I want to say inside Code Style, but I'm trying to see where
 
5:30 PM
I'm sure I've toggled some settings before; I think they may have moved around
 
General > Smart Keys
 
Smart Keys? Insert paired brackets?
 
aha, I had "Surround selection on typing quote or brace" ticked
which for some reason is separate from "insert paired brackets", even though that also includes braces
thanks!
 
@IMSoP I'm surprised you have that issue. PhpStorm "types over" the auto-inserted bracket if I again type ].
 
@Trowski that just makes it even harder to touch-type, though, because I constantly have to check how many brackets it's entered
 
5:35 PM
I wonder if some setting got turned off that does that, but it still inserts the bracket.
It should be inserting the same number as opened.
 
but what if I don't want the same number as opened?
why is the IDE trying to read my mind? that's what the keyboard's for
 
Well, that is a problem then.
Meh, to each their own, that's why there's settings.
 
if I'm typing code into an empty file, sure; but if I'm editing code, just let me decide where the brackets go
I think it's because I type quickly without looking at the screen
so I don't want to have to check if the IDE has guessed wrong
if you type more visually, it's probably more useful
 
6:04 PM
@IMSoP what are you looking at if not the screen?
 
6:21 PM
the other screen? ;)
it's about muscle memory I guess - choosing whether to add the bracket or let the IDE do it takes more concentration than just always typing it
 
 
2 hours later…
7:59 PM
jellow
 
Jell-O?
 
8:19 PM
ñello
 
converting large floats to int leads to overflow or the arithmetical unit ・ Math related ・ #79955
 
cmb
8:46 PM
@Crell, regarding doc translations: all translated files have an EN-Revision comment, which either matches the current SVN revision of the original, or not. In the latter case the translation is flagged as being out of date. When you bring a translation up to date, you update the EN-Revision (and of course update the contents of the file). Nothing about that update is automated. :(
 
Hey @cmb. I saw someone else had posted scripts and nightlys for the 8.0 snaps, are you sorted now?
 
@cmb Well, that's horrifying.
 
@Crell Yes, but it's the only way it can really work with SVN
 
/me sends thoughts and prayers to Andreas H.
 
it's when you find the occasional CVS artefact, that's when you know you've gone too far down the hole
 
9:09 PM
include_once ignores preloading ・ opcache ・ #79956
 
cmb
9:23 PM
@MarkR not really. It would be very sensible to run snap and release builds on the same machine; that would have helped with the missing OCI DLLs, and might help to catch other issues. Guess the biggest issue are Windows Server licenses. I need to write to internals, but I don't think we'll easily find a sponsor. :(
 
I was just going to use a Windows 10 licence, it doesn't need server does it?
Even on Azure the windows server licences are crazy expensive IMO
 
cmb
@MarkR no, it does not need a Server license. OTOH, Build System: Microsoft Windows 10 Home [10.0.18362] looks a bit unprofessional. Then again, if someone has an issue with that, they might sponsor a Server license.
 
If home is unprofessional, would professional be professional enough?
 
cmb
IDK
 
@cmb So MS doesn't even want to sponsor a Server license?
 
9:35 PM
Pro is like 10 USD from a Home license (...off eBay...)
 
@cmb What do those licenses cost?
 
cmb
@Girgias well, Dale wrote "not, however, going to be supporting PHP for Windows in any capacity for version 8.0 and beyond", and I was told to stop the snapshot builds (I think that VM is still up and running)
 
2019 essentials is £333 from scan. Standard is £762.
 
@cmb Jeeeeezzz, well okay then :(
 
@cmb Sending a mail to internals sounds like a good idea. For sponsoring, maybe jetbrains can do that.
 
9:42 PM
On Azure, 1 day of a general purpose D2 instance is $6.72 for a Windows licence, or $3.70 for Linux... paying a $90 premium a month when we could literally go out and buy a dedicated machine with higher specs for 2 months of that just doesn't make sense IMHO
I don't mind throwing a bit of money at it but paying completely over the top for win server when we're using literally none of its features would be a waste that could be better spent elsewhere.
 
@NikiC I'd be inclined to just say "well, MSFT doesn't even want to sponsor a license, so sod it".
 
cmb
interesting stance :)
 
Perhaps...
For my own open source projects I wouldn't spend money to support something that's commercial.
 
cmb
really something to consider; at least, at what degree we want to continue supporting PHP on Windows
 
10:01 PM
I can only speak for myself, but I find PHP a helpful tool for writing random scripts and such on Windows, but i've long since moved 100% of my proper dev onto Docker.
 
Robertfloca ・ *General Issues ・ #79957
 
Sorry. Unclear. Has MS actually said "No" to sponsoring a Win10 license? I know they gave that "not support in any way" statement, but I'm not sure that applies to "here's a 16 character code".
I mean, they're planning to support 7.4, so some resources are clearly not out of the question...
 
ebay.co.uk/itm/… nom nom nom?
 
11:06 PM
@Sjon Do you understand about websockets configuration, Ratchet, PHP and Javascript?
 
@RogerioBritoSoares unless you had a previous discussion with @Sjon regarding those subjects, you're better off asking the whole room a specific question rather than pinging someone. It can be seen as rude.
 

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