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00:37
Can having PHP opcache enabled somehow affect the output of XDebug line coverage (ie missing some lines) ?
 
5 hours later…
05:24
@Silverfox yes
Wes
Wes
06:22
god it's 2020 and i still have no tool for creating diagrams and kinda stuff that is easy to use. programs i tried are either too automatic or basically mspaint
also there are so many bad options that if a good program exists it's basically impossible to find
Git mergin'.
Wes
Wes
buried under the endless pile of bad diagram drawing software
@Wes You are looking for manual creating of diagrams? Tried draw.io?
Wes
Wes
i think i tried that, let's see
I don't play too much with diagrams but for occasional use, they seem fine.
06:28
hi everybody
Explain briefly about your experience on Sharding for MongoDB
please
@zohreh If you ask concrete question, it is more likely someone could answer.
I want know mongoDB is good for what type of projects .and Sharding how help to that projects and is easy to use? @Tpojka
It is still not concrete. Concrete would be if you tell what you are trying to do and then ask if MongoDB is good choice for that. You are not obliged to do so, I am just telling what could push people more to answer your question. What do you have so far? What do you know regarding MongoDB sharding?
 
1 hour later…
07:52
Hi
I have function for export csv format using php code
public function export_csv() {
            /** check(s) **/
            if( ! $this->data) { throw new exception('unable to create xls: missing data'); }
            if( ! $this->path) { throw new exception('unable to create xls: missing path'); }
            /** output conetnts to csv **/
            ob_start();
            $df = fopen($this->path.'.csv', 'w');
            foreach ($this->data as $row) {
                fputcsv($df, $row);
            }
            fclose($df);
            /** return **/
anyone please help me .dat format instead of csv
08:07
@IluTov But does @Danack want to chat about it? :-) (null safe ->) ?
get_defined_functions(true) may miss functions ・ PHP options/info functions ・ #79668
@Silverfox Yes, although Xdebug does try to turn off opcache optimisations.
@zohreh You almost never need sharding, but it does work well. IMO, MongoDB works great for almost every project.
@Silverfox If you have a specific case, I'm happy to look. (just @ me here)
@Siva Have you tried to change this line: $df = fopen($this->path.'.csv', 'w');?
@Jeeves lol
@Derick hem hem
@NikiC sup?
08:14
I'll refrain from commenting on that only because I'm working on PHP, so really in no position to argue :)
I stand by that statement though.
@NikiC Happy to discuss it (and named arguments) on the podcast though ;-)
08:30
@TheodoreBrown LG. I'd save the "It requires half as many characters, saving developer keystrokes." and refer to the motivation from the previous section. Keystrokes are not a great argument :)
is there a somewhat performance friendly method of checking the cAsInG of a classname that does not involve get_defined_classes ? class_exists and ::class are useless
@Derick next monday?
@Sjon ReflectionClass?
@NikiC yeah, that might work
@NikiC Works for me - what time?
@Derick usual 10/11?
08:37
works for me, I'll pop it in the calendar and send an invite
Actually, we have a grocery delivery at that time, Tuesday instead?
@Tpojka yes. No luck
@Derick ok
@Siva What is the error?
The file got created .dat format. But the file was blank.
I will post my changes
08:56
!!debug
Heh.
@cmb fyi github.com/php/php-src/commit/… to fix fallout from your sqlite fix
I think this is right, but would be good if you can double check
cmb
cmb
Yes, seen that. Thanks! It's correct according to docs, but might also make sense to use SQLITE_MAX_LENGTH (at least for text or blob columns)
@Siva It is hard to debug through chat. You should use Xdebug in IDE so you'd be able to debug line by line and see why data is not there (if should be per presumption).
Is it okay if I change type of bit column to smallint in MYSQL ? I cant see any problem though
using ALTER table command simply
@Tarun If it is related over foreign key constraint with other tables you could have issues unless those are exact same types - if one changed, other should be changed too.
09:12
@Tpojka That column is not used as foreign key in other table.
I think Its safe to just execute "Alter table tablename oldcol newcol smallint(6)"
Next check if old type used some indices etc. Otherwise, shouldn't be problematic.
@Tpojka. public function export_dat() {
            /** check(s) **/
            if( ! $this->data) { throw new exception('unable to create xls: missing data'); }
            if( ! $this->path) { throw new exception('unable to create xls: missing path'); }
            /** output contents to dat **/
            ob_start();
            $df = fopen($this->path.'.dat', 'w');
            foreach ($this->data as $row) {
                fwrite($df, $row);
            }
            fclose($df);
            /** return **/
@Tpojka Thanks for letting me know the impact. Fortunately there is no index on that column as well.
@Tpojka please see my code change for .dat format file
@Siva you almost certainly want to step through that with a debuggger.
...
also....why is there an ob_start inside a function? and also no ob close or end or whatever it's called.
09:21
Nullable variables ・ Variables related ・ #79669
@Danack Thanks.
@IluTov maybe you could do a non-recorded dry run with Derick and then figure out if you want to do it for real. To be clear, for the mixed one I did, some of my answers took my about five goes to get out into semi-intelligible english, but Derick edits all of the false starts out.
@Danack Did I link you to the preview?
no. but that's fine....kind of hate hearing myself speak.....
09:42
hah
I did too :-)
I got used to it :-)
That go/php framework thing has a very interesting thing aimed for it - en.reddit.com/r/PHP/comments/gulp5h/…
09:58
@Danack I don't know the framework but we're using their project RoadRunner and it's pretty good.
10:31
apropos of nothing - bikeshedding high quality source.
2
@TheodoreBrown while it is a free world, linking to a chat transcript of people talking here, is not a neutral thing to do. You should probably only do it when someone here has been a massive dick and you need to point out their bad behaviour.
Otherwise, you should make a summary of the conversation and just use that.
11:04
@Danack Okay. Mainly I wanted to save the link for my own reference, but it isn't really needed in the RFC.
thanks. the thing is that people are free to talk shit here, which helps conversations flow freely.
@NikiC Makes sense. By any chance, can you scan the top 2k Composer packages and see if there are any usages of @@? It would be nice to have a metric for the BC break section.
11:38
How can I debug the JIT?
use the force Luke.
Well, I could ping nikita... but that's so whack something in the type declaration code handling is fucking up badly
anyone remember off hand the guide to building a dev environment for php docs? I found this one but could've sworn there's a better one... can't remember where it's at
I think salathe or cmb linked it to me once in here...
Regex with non-greedy dot-all does not match "$" correctly ・ PCRE related ・ #79670
@Girgias There's a way you can dump the asm instructions but I don't remember how :/ Does opcache.opt_debug_level=0x20000 while enabling JIT do it?
11:52
Well I haven't checked localy yet but it's segfaulting on CI, so will try that
Just need to try to fix a weird issue which started on the laptop
cmb
cmb
@Tiffany I think I linked to that in the past.
@Girgias see wiki.php.net/rfc/jit#jit_debugging (don't know if that's up-to-date, though)
@cmb alright, I'll read it more carefully this morning, migraine might have been interfering with how I was understanding stuff last night
cmb
cmb
note that I usually don't use a Webserver to review local doc changes; if I need to, I generate --format xhtml
is that easier?
@Tiffany probably because you can see if it fails to build from the command line. And failing to build is the only real error condition.
> I would appreciate hearing from the people who have done the work on the attributes RFC, for them to say why they still prefer the syntax that they chose, or if they think that @@ would be an acceptable alternative.
@beberlei @NikiC I was drafting words, and realised that saying them now might be better than saying them later.
cmb
cmb
12:14
@Tiffany really important is only php doc-base/configure.php (like Dan said, this will check XML validity)
if you actually want to see the rendered docs, do php /tmp/phd/render.php --docbook /tmp/svn/doc-en/doc-base/.manual.xml --package PHP --format xhtml
12:36
trying to refresh my memory, this may end up as rubber ducking... I know I had completely built the docs a few months ago and had it working, I had a shared folder mounted to my guest VM for doc-en, and a separate folder on the VM only for rendered docs, which was symlinked into a folder so that I could see the rendered docs in a page...
but for some reason my doc-en folder on my VM is empty..
looking at svn.php.net/repository/phpdoc/modules/doc-en all there is a build script now?
but the doc-en folder in host OS has stuff... which could mean the mount needs to be redone...
but I'm wondering if I should just clone the docs from github now since we're moving away from SVN anyway... but... I need to make sure that the changes I make in host OS are reflected in guest OS, otherwise what's the point... so mount would need to be fixed regardless
thanks rubber ducky
@NikiC Can you elaborate on that one :P github.com/php/php-src/pull/5619#discussion_r434434187
@IluTov @IluTov jmp_null_opnums is stored on the stack, but you popped it in the line before?
I guess it won't actually UAF because the stack is non-shrinking (probably), it's more a logical think
@NikiC Wait, is there another meaning of UAF? :D
UAF as in use after free
haha ok i thought of the other one :P
13:13
@IluTov Uh, what's the other one? ^^
ugly as fuck ^^
looool
I guess I shouldn't be using this abbreviation anymore ^^
lol, use-after-free seems to be the more accepted meaning of that abbr
So, I just re-discovered this RFC: wiki.php.net/rfc/deprecations_php_8_0
@Derick Someone added a deprecation for DateTimeInterface::ISO8601 to that list (probably @Girgias). Is that something you would endorse or not?
@Sjon I'm not denying that I'm bad with abbreviations 🤷‍♂️
13:20
I'm somewhat "familiar" with that one as a regular lolphp entry...
hmm.. how does it benefit to add that warning?
@Derick Tell tell you more explicitly that "this is not the constant you're looking for", I guess
13:41
@NikiC And stop this comedy gold? No way :D I don't think it's actually a use after free though.
I'll run tests with Valgrind once it's ready. (I'll have to set up a Linux env, Valgrind on mac is utterly broken)
@IluTov As said, it's a logical use-after-free, not a real one
It could be a use-after-free if our stack implementation was different
@NikiC ah ok ^^
@NikiC That's indeed me
@Derick The benefit IMHO is that, except if the documentation is wrong (which may well be the case), the format doesn't give you a ISO8601 formatted date, which is rather confusing
@NikiC you mean use it more...
@NikiC Yeah, is that enough of a reason to warrant (potentially) breaking people's code? If their app use that ISO8601 now successfully, then they'll get warnings. It's not that the use of the constant is wrong, it's that its value is.
13:47
Well we can't really change the value of it can we?
@Derick Does the date format that constant use have some other name we could give it?
So we could tell people "use this constant instead" rather than "use this string instead"?
Well the constant to use is DATE_ATOM from what the docs say
Yeah, and what the RFC also mentions
Can you point out to me what's wrong with the ISO8601 one? I forgot
Let me check again because it's been a while
13:50
If the docs are to be beleived
Atom (example: 2005-08-15T15:52:01+00:00)
ISO-8601 (example: 2005-08-15T15:52:01+0000)
(it's the ':' in the timezone part)
It's the missing : in the offset. But aper the comments there, it seems like there's just more than one format in ISO8601
So it's not really "wrong"
oh, it's wrong. If you use a separator, you need to use it everywhere, I believe.
The point about fractions makes no sense, as the constant was added before PHP supported fractions.
And Dries is also conflating parsing with generating. All the formats he used with "parseFromFormat" would have been parsed just fine by the constructor.
I vote for not changing this.
(Because it's not broken per-sè). Even if you think it is, it's not clear cut, so we shouldn't add a deprecation notice.
14:19
DATE_REAL_ISO8601
@MarkR xD
14:40
or just use "c"
@Derick @Girgias Okay, dropping this one then
@Derick You agree with wiki.php.net/rfc/… tho, right?
Fine by me
@NikiC do you have a clue as to where I need to look to fix the JIT issues for: github.com/php/php-src/pull/5624 ?
Or should I ping Dmitry in the PR?
@Girgias Grep for zend_bool? ^^
Well I thought of going for the type-hint handling code
But I could do that too ...
14:57
@Girgias I didn't spot any obviously wrong zend_bool uses
sight
I'll try debugging on my own for a bit
Otherwise I'll ping Dmitry asking him if he has an idea as to why this is happening
So next item on the deprecation list is get_browser(), I believe also added by @Girgias
Yeah, @Kalle mentioned it
I would drop that one as well. The statement that it's slower than userland implementations hasn't been true since 7.1 or so
I don't have any strong feelings about this one, like said above I just added it because Kalle thought it was odd to depend on an INI setting that needs to be explicitly added
(or something, don't recall the details)
15:02
Documentation Editor is Down ・ Online Doc Editor problem ・ #79671
@Jeeves Well that solves one problem :P
Dumb question
But how does run-tests.php actually execute the tests?
@NikiC ini settings should be removed at the same time as the functions, yes. And mark as deprecated as the same time too, yes.
Does it spawn a process or does it exec() the TEST section?
it spawns processes
which a whole bunch of extra settings
15:06
Cause doing gdb --args sapi/cli/php -d opcache.jit_buffer_size=16M -d opcache.jit=0001 Zend/tests/bug63635.php to manually check the file with GDB seem to well not cause any segfaults but using the test runner it does
@Girgias you can use the .sh file
bug63635.sh gdb
Ah that's smart
Will do that thanks
15:27
@NikiC what JIT settings do you use? Because I manage to segfault by passing -d opcache.jit=0001 and getting the following backtrace:
Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
__strlen_avx2 () at ../sysdeps/x86_64/multiarch/strlen-avx2.S:62
62      ../sysdeps/x86_64/multiarch/strlen-avx2.S: No such file or directory.
(gdb) bt
#0  __strlen_avx2 () at ../sysdeps/x86_64/multiarch/strlen-avx2.S:62
#1  0x00007ffffe4ad9ae in __GI___strdup (s=0x18 <error: Cannot access memory at address 0x18>) at strdup.c:41
#2  0x000000000838a2df in php_error_cb (orig_type=2,
    error_filename=0x18 <error: Cannot access memory at address 0x18>, error_lineno=0,
But if I do -d opcache.jit="on", or -d opacache.jit=1101 it works fine
So I'm wondering if it's just my machine being weird or if that's the root cause. As I don't see Azure defining this setting
okay just removing the opcache.jit setting gives me some progress on the actual issue
@NikiC does anyone actually use get_browser() in his code tbh?
cmb
cmb
this page is best viewed with Internet Explorer 4.0 :p
15:45
@NikiC You can just put "gdb" behind the .sh file name? --- I did notice that the .sh file does not set the environment variables from --ENV-- btw. Might make a patch for that.
16:17
@Danack I had an off-list discussion with Benjamin and Martin about it. I updated the RFC draft with Benjamin's reasoning as well as an additional point in favor of @@ (support for nested attributes): gist.github.com/theodorejb/071fa8790dec4b0de51f9b016688feb4
@Derick it was recently added
@bwoebi no idea, but I would assume "yes"
16:43
@bwoebi I think asgrim was the person who was complaining last time when removal came up
I have the best back trace ever:
(gdb) bt
#0 0x000000007fffffff in ?? ()
#1 0x000000000863ea58 in ?? ()
#2 0x00007ffffde5b200 in ?? ()
#3 0x00007ffffffea2f0 in ?? ()
#4 0x00007ffffde15020 in ?? ()
#5 0x800000000002b614 in ?? ()
#6 0x00000000fde5b2e0 in ?? ()
#7 0x0000000000000000 in ?? ()
17:04
@IluTov Hrm. The inability to use nullsafe with dynamic callable names is sad-making. :-(
@Crell ?
$callableOrNull?()
@Crell Ah sorry. JavaScript uses the ugly ?.() syntax, is that an option here?
That would remove the ambiguity
(Same with ?.[])
Maybe? I haven't thought it through at all.
(No pun intended there, I swear.)
I'm pretty sure it works from the parsers perspective, the question is more are we ready for the "wow this is ugly" comments :P
For JavaScript it kinda makes sense because they use the ?. syntax, for PHP the dot feels even more out of place.
17:14
Help please fellas
0
Q: PHP upload image data through AJAX

Yotam DahanI'm trying to upload product to my PHP upload system, that includes multiple variables, images among them. I'm using ajax function to transfer string variables and newForm() (that related to images fetched from input[type="file"]). The main goal is to upload the image and strings in upload.php f...

Help yourselves by formulating an actual question instead of halph
TFW entirely borking the docs build
woops
sorry was copying the wrong link
17:28
You have error messages about code that is not shared
I have updated the question @PeeHaa
Check the request being made in your browser's dev tools
@IluTov Are you suggesting always using ?. instead, or allowing both and only using ?. in ambiguous cases?
after I submit the form, the ajax send the request. I debugged the errors so it output what I've posted on the question @PeeHaa
@Crell ?->, ?.() and ?.[]
?->() and ?->[] would look really weird and ?. would be confusing
17:38
:thinking face emoji:
I'd say use an upside down question mark instead if my keyboard had it. :-)
@Crell 🙃👎
17:59
@Crell ($callableOrNull ?? fn()=>0)(); … tbf I don't think it won't save much for the relatively rare case of nullable callables
I have no clue how common null dynamic callables are. Ideally never, but...
Well, hang on. Two slightly different things.
1) $callme(5); // if $callme is maybe null.

2) $foo->$methodName(5)->baz(); // Where $methodName is maybe null.
The first case is hopefully rare. The second is more likely, IMO.
@Crell I think 2) is really rare
And these things are often enough guarded by a method_exists() check etc.
Removing _exists() checks seems to be the whole point of the RFC, no?
@Crell no, the point is removing isset() checks
Are those not close enough to the same thing?
18:04
@Crell I think, for the rare cases it's in general better no not have sugar but explicit syntax
What about arrays?
@Crell I'm fine with support for arrays if we find an acceptable syntax
:thumbs up emoji:
which is not $arr?["foo"].
18:26
@bwoebi So, what about the $arr?.["foo"] I mentioned above?
That looks like character soup to me :(
@PeeHaa Yeah I don't disagree. Can anybody think of something else? @bwoebi also mentioned $arr[?"foo"] but that also looks confusing to me.
(I think it way you, correct me if I'm wrong)
18:59
@IluTov yeah, character soup :-/
I believe if you want a question mark and array-looking syntax $arr[?"foo"] is going to be sort of your best bet :x
(and few will like it I suppose)
@IluTov $arr[?"foo"] makes sense, but it's a completely different feature :)
That would be short for $arr["foo"] ?? null
And might be useful for something like $wordCounts[?$word]++. But as said, completely different feature and semantics
Am I blind? Where did the "tests" tab on Azure go? dev.azure.com/phpazuredevops/PHP/_build/…
@NikiC Yeah I think that one would feel more intuitive.
19:18
What's the proper way to add a php-cs-fixer config to a repo in a non-executable format? (i.e. a json, yml etc.)? I have users which can commit to the repo, but they shall not be able to execute any arbitrary code on the machine running the cs-fixer :x
@Wes do you have any decent articles why utility first CSS approach is probably the wrong approach? I am having a hard time conveying my case in a decent way :)
@bwoebi Does the fixer execute code in xml? o.O
@bwoebi Haha are you running php-cs-fixer in prod or what? :D
@IluTov no, as part of a gitlab runner … but that runner has ssh keys to push to prod, yes
@bwoebi You could probably run cs-fixer in a stage that doesn't have the ssh keys if you're worried about that.
@bwoebi Is that not something you can fix by doing code reviews?
19:23
@PeeHaa not without annoying people :-P
@IluTov technically yes, but turns out starting a docker container on the machine for every pipeline task is too slow (I mean like 5 sec overhead) … that's why there's just one bare runner
@bwoebi But if they have full access to the Git repo what stops them from adding something to .gitlab-ci.yml which they shouldn't? How's that different from the .php_cs file?
@IluTov I have the gitlab-ci.yml configs in a separate repo they don't have write access to :-)
What's stopping them from making any unrelated changes that will blow up in your face on prod?
@bwoebi What about the tests directory :D You could put arbitrary code there ^^
@PeeHaa branch permissions
19:31
But they can still sneak it in their own branch which gets merged
Obviously I don't know your setup. But it seems to me your are trying to prevent something which they can do regardless
@PeeHaa obviously… but at least someone has reviewed it first then and can be blamed
@bwoebi So back to me suggestion fix it at review instead
If they are already reviewing. Make sure they don't do something stupid in your config
Again probably missing something obvious here?
@PeeHaa well, some people can push to some branches which are deployed on staging servers
but not everyone who can push to staging shall be able to push to prod
The .php_cs file is currently the only possible (unsupervised) backdoor
and I want to eliminate that. How?
@IluTov there are currently no automated test runs (yet)
@IluTov @PeeHaa the primary issue is: the cs-fixer needs to be able to push back to the repo. So there need to be keys allowing the push back to git. Any user who can somehow trigger a cs-fixer pipeline could add code to the .php_cs file to push to an arbitrary branch.
and we want to have automated runs on the cs-fixer (full stop on that)
Yeah we just have separate stages in our builds
@PeeHaa so, a stage which runs the cs fixer and a separate stage taking the output and pushing it?
19:43
wait
@bwoebi I just have a watcher in PHPStorm that runs php-cs-fixer every time I save. I never have to run it manually. 🤷‍♂️
Are you talking about the automated fixer?
@IluTov You still need to enforce it in your build
You cannot just assume everybody does that
@PeeHaa Sure but you don't need ssh keys to push back to the git repo
@PeeHaa php-cs-fixer fix --config=.php_cs
Anyone in our team who doesn't do that can deal with the "shit, git commit --amend" :P
19:50
@PeeHaa so yes the automated one
@cmb @Kalle @NikiC did we hear anyting back from the Microsoft guys about run-tests.php --html, yet ? Just checking in. Thanks
20:05
Ah, I just found what I searched in the docs "Complete configuration for rules can be supplied using a json formatted string."
I know the doc builder is complaining about <title> being outside of a container, I'm trying to figure that one out, but can anyone else see anything wrong with this bit of code? I keep getting either validation errors, or segfaults.
@Tpojka "how to basic saving money"?
though, instead of eggs, there are sunflower seeds
@Tiffany I have no idea what was idea but that what you're saying seems legit.
20:37
@IluTov you're not bilind, it just disappeared for non-admins some weeks ago. :) But you can see the diff among the test log thanks to Alex Dowad :)
@MátéKocsis Oh I see, thanks! :)
21:26
I think the shorter attribute syntax RFC is ready for discussion, but before I bring it to the mailing list I'm curious what other voters think about including support for nested attributes.
@beberlei was concerned that this could set up the RFC for failure. Do you think there are any potential problems with including support right away in PHP 8, or would it be better to leave this feature for a later RFC (probably targeting PHP 8.1)? gist.github.com/theodorejb/071fa8790dec4b0de51f9b016688feb4
@TheodoreBrown I think you need to keep it simple, to stop being doing dumb sh*t with it - It's a powerful tool, to be used with caution
Yeah. I just know that @NicolasGrekas mentioned on list being quite disappointed that nested attributes wouldn't be supported (externals.io/message/108907#109688).
But if most voters feel it would be better to postpone until later I can reword the RFC to clarify that it won't be added now, but the shorter syntax doesn't have conflicts with it. @NikiC
@TheodoreBrown come back with a second RFC, definitely, don't include it in this one. we've been arguing for annotations for long enuf :)
cmb
cmb
21:42
@PaulDragoonis yes, okay to kill the option
@TheodoreBrown if you go just by the public declarations of dissapointing the <<>> attributes would never have been accepted.
Fair enough. :)
@cmb thank you for the confirmation, expect an updated PR
22:01
@PaulDragoonis Okay, I updated the RFC to save nested attributes for a future proposal.
Now it just says "The @@ syntax doesn't have any conflicts with nested attributes, so it will be straightforward to add support for them in the future if desired (without needing any special cases or changes to const expressions)".
@TheodoreBrown It's probably before PHP 8.0 or never. RFCs with large BC breaks are usually a no-go and those with alternative syntaxes don't do great either. I think you make some good arguments.
@TheodoreBrown Small note: Rust actually uses the #[attribute] syntax for annotating elements. #![attribute] is used for scope wide settings (like declare in PHP).
@IluTov The @@ syntax change definitely has to be for PHP 8.0. We're thinking of deferring nested attributes for 8.1, which shouldn't be a BC break.
@TheodoreBrown Ah sorry. Yeah nested attributes should be moved to a separate RFC. If you risk too much discussion / too many objections you could miss the deadline and the syntax would be final.
@IluTov Ah, thanks for catching that. Fixed now.
22:15
@NikiC Bummer. But since the results are now visible in the logs it's ok :)
@TheodoreBrown one last thing, i think th eproposal should come first, and then what is the introduction should come after that
I'll have to see if I can do that in a way that doesn't read awkwardly.
22:56
@TheodoreBrown yes ;)
23:28
I spoke with Max Semenik about his catching RFC... he said he didn't think he could vote himself. But shouldn't RFC authors be able to vote on RFCs?
23:38
They can
Right???
or is it one of those weird only wiki accounts and they cannot vote?
wiki only*
but RFC authors ought to have wiki accounts?
yeah, but I think there is a thing that is "just a wiki account without a master.php account"
I've authored three RFCs but can't vote.
interesting - I thought RFC authors could vote.
cmb
cmb
23:55
to be able to vote, you need a php.net account
Emailed internals now <hides>

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